His World* Sonic Moveset Analysis/Speculation Thread *UPDATED 9/14/14*

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i believe he does as it happens to megaman, manage to confirm it in the demo

 

[Hong]

@ Hong can we get this Sticked?

You're too slow!

Stickied this bad boy days ago. Good work.

 

[Camalange]

And since I'm here, can anyone tell me if Sonic still gets cypher-gimped if he's grabbed out of his up-b which doesn't really matter anymore because it auto-snaps; but, it would still be good to know anyway~?

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2ghp3j/the_thread_that_has_a_bunch_of_things_you_should/

24: You can grab opponents out of their recoveries and let them fall to their deaths.

Can anyone confirm this? If so, at least Sonic (and Snake only in Brawl lol gg RIP) isn't the only one who suffers from this now.

Posed this question myself in a different thread, but take a look at this. Apparently it's not only still there, but applies to everyone now.

Still waiting for someone to confirm or debunk this though. The interest is clearly there and I'd already be investigating it myself IF I COULD UGH

You're too slow!

Respect.

 

[Kinzer]

Posed this question myself in a different thread, but take a look at this. Apparently it's not only still there, but applies to everyone now.

Still waiting for someone to confirm or debunk this though. The interest is clearly there and I'd already be investigating it myself IF I COULD UGH

I have my reasons to doubt that's the case for EVERYBODY, though. Unless something is different in particular with this game, the past three smashes have kept it where a character being grab-released over an edge got put back into a freefall. It was Brawl that introduced semi-freefall and it made sense (technically speaking) that no damage to them didn't return them back into "true" freefall.

But, yes, I'm with you. If I had my own 3DS and copy of Smash Bros.,I'd be in the lab. :/

 

[The Pizza Guy]

Posed this question myself in a different thread, but take a look at this. Apparently it's not only still there, but applies to everyone now.

Still waiting for someone to confirm or debunk this though. The interest is clearly there and I'd already be investigating it myself IF I COULD UGH

Tether grabs confirmed OP edgegaurds.

 

[Camalange]

I have my reasons to doubt that's the case for EVERYBODY, though. Unless something is different in particular with this game, the past three smashes have kept it where a character being grab-released over an edge got put back into a freefall. It was Brawl that introduced semi-freefall and it made sense (technically speaking) that no damage to them didn't return them back into "true" freefall.

As do I, hence why I want to get to bottom of this so badly but...

But, yes, I'm with you. If I had my own 3DS and copy of Smash Bros.,I'd be in the lab. :/

UGH UGH UGH

Tether grabs confirmed OP edgegaurds.

Possibly, but uuuuuuugh

 

[TwicH]

So can we figure out Sonic's gimp game. It would really help out if he could gimp well.

 

[XLR8TION]

hmm with that new ledge system gimping is difficult I suppose

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Sonics with its overall buff makes really good for edgeguarding and im sticking by dair being viable due to it being able to meteor smash now

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

But wouldn't it be kinda hard to time with its somewhat lengthy start-up lag? I mean the combo in the direct was purely eye candy since from what I could tell there was no input from the other player marth didn't even try to recover.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Using Dair you would need to time the hit to disrupt an opponents double jump. That and in brawl sonic's Dair would trade with marth's Up-b if he didn't have invincibility frames. If it still trades we could easily just trade the meteor hit with the Up-B or simply time your Dair to coincide with your opponents double jump or recovery.

Characters like bowser, donkey kong, lucario, fox, falco and such who rely on recovering either from a specific height or have startup time on their recoveries will be easier to Dair meteor. Same applies to megaman who unlike us suffers cooldown after he leaps off rush as well as cooldown when he lands from his up-b it we align ourselves properly punishing opponents with dair could solidify ourselves some early KO's

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Thanks for the tips will help out alot. So has anyone figured out sonic's third up-b is because I haven't seen any footage of it but the double spring jump looks useful for edge guarding not much else because the height it sends you at is roughly half of a normal spring. Using that in teams seems kinda risky too since you could potentially gimp your opponent's and your teamate's recoveries at the same time, not sure how I feel about that.

 

[Zx2963]

That's my point.

Dair doesn't last forever... Once you get past a certain height, the move will end. So if you Dair towards the stage from really high up, by the time you land the move will already be over and you can, for example, shield on landing.

It's the same as Brawl.

Nah it was the same height, but the time at which you press it determines how quickly the shields comes out. I gotta find that video

 

[Kinzer]

*Snip.*

IMO, it's just gonna be a niche alternative.

I'm not gonna call it outright useless; but, I was hoping for more out of it. Like the first spring coil not dematerializing upon the second Spring Jump. Had that been the case, it might've had more use as an edgeguard or some other whacky set-up. As it stands, though, it's just a way to delay your apex jump since the height of the two mini-jumps is roughly the same as the regular Spring Jump.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Dair everything. Regret nothing.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

The animation you go into when someone else grabs the ledge from you.. Can you act out of that right away, or are you locked into it for the duration of the jumping arc? Sonic already has the fastest ground speed and quick grabbing the ledge is definitely back in. I'd like to see if stealing the ledge then drop and jump b-air is legit or not.

 

[Masonomace]

Just thought of this, wondering why I didn't think of it before. But a drop-off Dair used justly, would serve to be a viable trade of hits if the end result was the opponent falling to their doom. So now here's where I thought of it:

"Well now we can't recover since we're too low to the pit's blast zone!"

So what if we instead DI while DJ'ing towards the lip / the side of the stage & proceed doing a DJ Spring Jump to wall-jump snap-ledge? (Assuming we can reach that)

In Brawl, we only had to DI our control stick towards the lip / stage wall & press the jump button = X. Walljumping after Spring Jump is confirmed right?

 

[Kinzer]

Ack! I knew I've been meaning to request something in particular be tested! Can't believe it took me this long to FINALLY remember what it was!

To anyone with the capability of testing this: Could I trouble you into testing whether or not Sonic's down throw still gives opponents an opportunity to DI down and tech in place to punish Sonic faster than he recovers from it? Or has Sakurai tweaked the move in a more favorable position for Sonic?

 

[SFA Smiley]

^I can test and Upload this when i have the opportunity

Also I have gameplay of sonic for you guys, i've seen him requested a lot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFlMTi3yXv8&list=UUMNi1nkIpqkfvHOeLlAmLdA

Just as annoying as ever >_>

 

[Sonic Orochi]

^I can test and Upload this when i have the opportunity

Also I have gameplay of sonic for you guys, i've seen him requested a lot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFlMTi3yXv8&list=UUMNi1nkIpqkfvHOeLlAmLdA

Just as annoying as ever >_>

Nice knowing that our grab range is now decent. Also, dat shield pressure @6:32

One thing I noticed about Mega Man in the demo is that he regains his double jump when using a ground-placed Rush Coil. Of course we can't have such luxury.. or can we?

 

[Kinzer]

Also I have gameplay of sonic for you guys, i've seen him requested a lot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFlMTi3yXv8&list=UUMNi1nkIpqkfvHOeLlAmLdA

That's... strange. At around 5:38 in the video, Sonic Spring Jumped and was clearly put in semi-freefall. Upon landing on the spring again, he was able to Spin Charge.

... I wonder if that's intentional or if something else happened that I missed.

That's going to be incredibly awesome, though, if Sonic no longer stays in semi-freefall upon bouncing on the same grounded spring he generated.

 

[cg0rz152]

That's... strange. At around 5:38 in the video, Sonic Spring Jumped and was clearly put in semi-freefall. Upon landing on the spring again, he was able to Spin Charge.

... I wonder if that's intentional or if something else happened that I missed.

That's going to be incredibly awesome, though, if Sonic no longer stays in semi-freefall upon bouncing on the same grounded spring he generated.

Huh, if Sonic can use his B moves after landing on a grounded spring I wonder if he can use another spring right after bouncing off of it.

In brawl you always had to land on the ground first and then jump on your spring to do that.

 

[infomon]

^^ ohhhhh that's sooo goood!!

 

[Sonic Orochi]

That's gonna make chasing opponents that recover high really easy (Spring->dair into Spring->go for the kill).

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Why can't Oct. 3rd be here sooner.... it hurts watching other sonic's play smash 4 and not because they aren't good but because i want to have the luxury of being able to play too..... and to think we will have to most likely have to go through this same thing with the Wii U version.

 

[True Blue]

Oh well I guess cause everyone is here and being such and such I had posted on my Facebook my analysis on things and I guess I should throw it all in here for everyone to pick the information they want from it. Just gonna copy and paste it here.

Sonic Breakdown.

Way past cool! Really liking how he works.
Basically the same here and there with buffs and nerfs like all the veteran characters.
Though some people thought he was MEGA buff, and he isn't really. Kinda the same.
The Way Past Cool things that have been changed:

+Fair seems a lot more fluid when running and short hopping with it, even on the 3DS.
+Dash Attack added a new animation at the end of it which is awesome and is slightly laggy at the end like Mario's Dash Attack and it pops the opponent up.
At 0% it easily leads up on short hop forward air and can continue pressure.
+Down Air now has a pseudo spike! Awesomes! So now when I down air off stage like I normally did it will have more meaning!
+When Sonic lands on his own spring he regains his double jump AND his Up B!
+Side B is STILL Shield Cancelable! And when you jump with it you can shield it on the way back down even when it is fully charged!
Also leaping with it in the air can be very mobile.
Still has Invinci frames, but they happen quicker since the hop animation comes out quicker.
+Up Air seems like it kills a bit sooner than it use to.
+Down B can jump Vertically with a Hit Box.
+Pivot Forward Tilt and Down Tilt are pretty godlike, when I can actually do them.
+Pivot Grab seems to be a lot better compared to Brawl.
+Up Tilt is a little more leniant on the hit box compared to Brawl. So is slightly bigger.
+Homing Attack is a lot faster and more Successful with a low amount of lag when hitting on shield. So it seems.
+Down Smash changed to a split kick which seems like a great move to use to punish quickly on either side of Sonic.
........

Nasty things that have been changed:

+Sonic can still have trouble killing.
+Up Throw at 0% does not lead into many options.
+Many characters can react to Up Throw >Up B > Up Air.
+Back Air has some NASTY lag when you land with it.
+Down Air cannot be Auto Cancelled from the Apex of Sonic's Grounded Up B.
+Down Tilt seems to ALWAYS send them outwards instead of popping them up.
+Up Throw Kills at later percents than normally.
+Side B does not retain a hit box when you jump vertically with it.
+Back Airs hit box is a bit smaller than it use to be.
+Side B and Homing Attack in the air cause you to fall DRASTICALLY.
+When Homing Attack under the stage Sonic smacks himself and gets into a bit of hitstun, so no more Homing Attack Stalling under stages.
+Sonic can't Spin over Bananas

Florida's Sonic that is ready to Spin Back into Action
(Some things may be wrong, game is still knew and some options may have looked wonky to me.)

Added By StaticManny:
Positives:

+Sonic's Up smash is un-sdiable and kills a majority of the cast around 90-110%. Great kill option, difficult to land.
+Sonic's F-smash comes out even faster and kills at earlier percents. Killing characters like bowser from 125% and more if they're on one side of the stage.
+ Sonic B-throw got buffed greatly, killing a majority of the cast around 140-170.

Negatives:
- Sonic's Bair got nerfed, a fresh bair will kill people around 170 instead of 130-150 like it used to for average weight characters.
-Sonic's Up throw does 6 percent. -.-.


Video of all Custom Moves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC9_0BZyDAo

And more that I wanted to add in general as a Negative is that Side B and Homing Attack when used in the Air cause you to plummet very quickly. Which kinda sucks. Homing Attack only makes you plummet if you are not able to target anyone. Which I hate cause I liked to use that as harass off stage.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Sonic can't Spin over Bananas

Well, ****.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Well it's a good thing bananas only can be used twice per banana. Also from my experience Bair seemed buffed in KO power i was kills pretty early, like 112%. Also like i mentioned before, the landing lag while being increased to a noticable degree isn't too much of a problem IF you land the move on shield as it causes a decent amount of shield stun and pushes back the opponent a bit making it hard to punish.

If custom moves are legal i'll probably run the fire spin dash, quick homing attack, auto spin charge and his normal spring. Alternating with his Bounce attack like HA and double spring.

 

[cg0rz152]

+When Sonic lands on his own spring he regains his double jump AND his Up B!

Ah, so it is possible to do that then.

I wonder if at certain percents if it's possible to: UpThrow>Spring>DAir spike into Spring>UpAir>Spring>UpAir

Also, does anyone know if his Bounce Attack custom move can spike? Be interesting if you could Spring off the ground and Bounce Attack someone into it for more follow-ups.

Darn it, I really wish I could test this for myself!

 

[infomon]

Also, does anyone know if his Bounce Attack custom move can spike? Be interesting if you could Spring off the ground and Bounce Attack someone into it for more follow-ups.

It does not spike, at least I watched one video where they tried (vs a Rosalina) and were not able to connect that hit to do anything in the air.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

That makes absolutely no sense to me that a move that travels directly down does not spike at all especially considering sonic literally bounces off them after he hits.

 

[Camalange]

It's interesting how much changed from the demo. I remember Sonic's bair being a solid KO option whereas Uair got nerfed...

All in all, it sounds like overall we definitely won with the buffs. The new spring tech is amazing! But the biggest nerf I will have the worst time getting used to is bair...

I USE BAIR FOR EVERYTHING AND NOW I CAN'T

 

[infomon]

I'm still really mad that SDR doesn't restore spindash jump data.

Stupidest character design flaw confirmed intentional..... sigh

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

It's interesting how much changed from the demo. I remember Sonic's bair being a solid KO option whereas Uair got nerfed...

All in all, it sounds like overall we definitely won with the buffs. The new spring tech is amazing! But the biggest nerf I will have the worst time getting used to is bair...

I USE BAIR FOR EVERYTHING AND NOW I CAN'T

Idk i was using bair basically just like i used to and it didn't feel like it got hit with a big nerf. Like i stated before as long as you land the move either with it actually hitting the opponent or hitting shield your basically safe. And offstage the move hits pretty hard for solid edgegaurding. Just Rosalina... her recovery made it difficult to consecutively edge guard her, that and magicant + white luma = a pain to distinguish from the background with 3D off. -__-

 

[True Blue]

OH! Homing Attack can kill as well. Been reliable when I used it randomly. But then again, a lot of things that we may have been thinking as a reliable kill move may have just been increased because of the Rage Effect and we didn't know it.

 

[Chis]

Is the Homing Attack still super pushable?

 

[True Blue]

Probably but at this stage right now everyone has been too new to know how to punish it yet. But it FEELS safe. For the time being. lol

 

[Camalange]

Idk i was using bair basically just like i used to and it didn't feel like it got hit with a big nerf. Like i stated before as long as you land the move either with it actually hitting the opponent or hitting shield your basically safe. And offstage the move hits pretty hard for solid edgegaurding. Just Rosalina... her recovery made it difficult to consecutively edge guard her, that and magicant + white luma = a pain to distinguish from the background with 3D off. -__-

The landing lag though.

I use it for spacing, approaching, pressuring, edgeguarding, KOing... Especially now that the hitbox isn't as big either... Man.

 

[Kinzer]

If custom moves are legal i'll probably run the fire spin dash, quick homing attack, auto spin charge and his normal spring. Alternating with his Bounce attack like HA and double spring.

Why would you, or anyone, consider Auto Spin Charge?

Unless there's a mechanical difference; it's literally just a variant that does the full input for you. With that said, have fun not being able to release Spin Charge sooner with less inputs or not being able to abort assuming something comes up which makes following through with a Spin Charge unfavorable.

I don't know about you; but, Sonic was never suppose to be an easy character to play. I prefer to actually feel like my inputs mean something when I play this character.

 

[infomon]

Why would you, or anyone, consider Auto Spin Charge?

because you're 7 years old and think sonic is really cool!