Hello everyone.
I started doing this in my FAQ thread but I don't know if it's been seen by most yet. I'd like to bring it to more people's attention to get a discussion going.
Before I share it, there's also this thing called roll canceled grabs. Sonic's is okay. Probably won't ever use it.
copy-pasta
Please contribute/tear apart. I did my best to compile/research by myself but this stills gets confusing even to me sometimes.
Not-So-Basic Sonic-Specific Terminology:
SD = Spin Dash
(Side-B)
SDH = Spin Dash Hop
(Release Side-B)
SC = Spin Charge
(Down-B)
ASC = Aerial Spin Charge
(Aerial Down-B)
SR(?) = Spin Roll
(Grounded Spin Dash or Spin Charge roll)*
* Do both SDR and SCR(?) still share stale move proration? Are "both" Spin Rolls still technically the same move, or do we need to classify them as separate SRs? They have different damage outputs but both have the same old VSDJ. If they are not the same, I propose simply SDR and SCR. If it's the same, then SR.
SJ = Spin Jump (
Jump Attack done out of a SR)*
* Originally SDJ.VSJ(?) = Vertical Spin Jump (SCJ or SDJ done in place [
OLD VSDJ])*
* If SCR exists, then this is what we should call what we used to call VSDJ to simplify things.
VSDJ(?) = Vertical Spin Dash Jump (SDJ done in place)*
*
Crazy different now. This should be the name of the new jump that retains charge, as it's a vertical jump that can only be done with SD, as opposed to SC.
SDSC = Spin Dash Shield Cancel
(Hit Shield to cancel a Side-B's charge)
Spinshot = Double Jump canceled Spin Dash/Spin Charge
Q: How do I shot spin?
A: You can Spinshot from both Side-B and Down-B. Both require you inputting a jump at or past a certain point during each spindash.
Recommended [only?] input(s):
[Hold Side-B] or [Fully Charged Side-B] > [Release B and quickly hit A or X/Y (Jump)] **
[Rapid-Fire Down-B] > [Release B and quickly hit A or X/Y (Jump]
Same as
**
I personally find it's easiest to roll my thumb from B to A after a fully-charged Side-B.
What we know about Down-B and Side-B (This is currently my information dump):
GROUND: Side-B can cancel into shield before it's fully charged. Damage for the roll is based on how long you hold it. Side-B has a hop, and it's attack box deals 5 damage (charge doesn't matter). Down-B's damage is based on the rate/amount of times you rapid fire B. Down-B deals more damage if you're holding a direction. Speed is no longer a damage variable (I think). It also does multiple hits if you hold forward (I think).
Down-B SDR - 2% damage per hit (no matter how much it’s charged [has multi-hits])
Side-B SDR - 6-10% (charge dependent [hits once])
Down-B SDJ - 6% (always)
I want to rename Down-B SDR to SCR (Spin Charge Roll) as mentioned earlier, because I believe it may now be it's own move. Need confirmation.
-
AIR: Side-B SDJ (I want to name this the
new VSDJ). Basically we can now jump if we hold Side-B then press jump. If you hold Side-B and jump, you MUST land, and it will automatically release into Side-B hop (SDH), then SDR. You can't SD out of Side-B's SDJ (
newVSDJ). HOWEVER you can jump and either go immediately into a double jump before seeing the Side-B hop, OR SPINSHOT (meaning that even though you can't cancel the
new VSDJ with a regular jump, if you land, it still retains a double jump).
If you initiate a charge on Side-B before reaching max charge and land on the ground, it can still be shield canceled. If it's at full charge when you land, it cannot be canceled and you must either release into SDH > SDR or you can continue to
new VSDJ. If you release Side-B in the air, enter the hop, and land, it cannot be shield canceled.
ASC (Aerial Spin Charge): Cannot be shield canceled. You can't jump out of a SDR from an aerial SC or SD, even if you release those on the ground. You can, however, use HA, Spring, air dodge or any aerial to get out of the jump animation. Also, you can still double jump, if you had it available before the ASC/ASD, but only if the SDR runs off the platform. So basically, if you ASC/ASD > SDR (SCR?), you will only SDJ with no stored double jump unless you roll off a platform.
ASC also seems to only do 3% damage per hit, but can still multi-hit into a double jump > aerial (as long as you don't let it touch the ground first) BUT FOR SOME REASON IF YOU HIT THE GROUND AND GO INTO SDR (SCR??)>SDJ YOU CAN STILL GO INTO A FSJ WHY?
More information cited by @
Sonic Orochi
that I still need to organize as well: *
*http://smashboards.com/threads/changes-from-brawl-new-stuff-etc.370892/
-You can now short hop after a SD or ASC. Timing is kinda strict: you have to tap jump as soon as you hit the ground. The jump from the ASC goes higher than the one from SD. This jump can be controlled by momentum: you can ASC/ASD high up in the air, change directions and jump to the opposite direction of what the ASC/ASD was originally meant to go to (terrible wording, please bear with me);
- Remember run->SD->shield cancel? We can still to that.. with INCREASED range! And more: run->SD->charge jump->shield cancel when landing;
- It's also possible to insta-SDJ with the above technique but I can't seem to find the correct timing/requirements to do it consistently. I also noticed that it doesn't let you double jump out of itsometimes let you double jump out of it.. It SEEMS to have the same input for the Spinshot, but while running (run->SD->SS). Still can't get it to work quite right;
A lot of this was the base of Tenki's old FAQ, Sonic Orochi's research, as well as my own testing and things I've seen on the board.
Have at it.
