Hierarchies of Power: The Ganon Community Tier List! (Updated October 8th 2017)

[A2ZOMG]

lmao

I am free for longer than expected but I need like 15min. If you need time or can't make it lmk

I should be on probably in like 10 or so minutes.

 

[Opana]

Alright same. Wanna hash out stages on twitter? I can't post here from mobile.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Alright same. Wanna hash out stages on twitter? I can't post here from mobile.

Works for me

 

[A2ZOMG]

2-1 me, games were mad close and could have gone either way. Very good games Opana .

 

[Opana]

2-1 me, games were mad close and could have gone either way. Very good games Opana .

Yeah really ggs, just rewatched them now. I still don't feel confident in the mirror after all this time so I honestly couldn't be happier with how I've done tbh.

Also after you mentioned the baits thing I've noticed a lot of how I play is comprised of numerous tricks that won't work as well vs. those knowledgeable of Ganon.

Anyway yeah impressive stuff man, I had fun.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Move me ahead 2-1. He plays well.

 

[Bloodynite]

Why the hell am I not listed here

 

[A2ZOMG]

Why the hell am I not listed here

You only needed to ask.

So I looked up some of your more recent videos which were in tournament. I would say you often got caught throwing out unsafe moves repeatedly, which especially put you in dangerous situations in your negative state, especially emphasized by how Kneesus quickly ended you in game 2 of your set versus him.

Now it's not necessarily bad to throw out moves as Ganon, the biggest thing I didn't see enough of was watching the opponent's reaction to said decisions. There were a lot of ways you could have dynamically adjusted to capitalize, and you often got baited in pretty simple ways simply because it was kinda obvious you really wanted to attack (but weren't ever really prepared to respond to jumps). I felt that you rarely seemed very comfortable with your options inside DA range, and over-relied on obvious wizkick blitzes in neutral and people running into aerials when you were getting out of pressure.

At the moment I'll throw you in C-tier, you have some good basic mechanics down, but many things are very rough around the edges and your thought process for conditioning is currently pretty limited.

 

[Opana]

So you think after I attend a bit more tourneys and get a few sets up I can have my placing adjusted? Tbh if I didn't have the opportunity to head out I'd be satisfied with my placing, but I feel I play much better offline in these tourneys.

EDIT: Apparently my message got cut off so I'm ending this with the word tourneys lol. I had more written but I should have anticipated this and copied it smh.

 

[Vermanubis]

Figured this has been integral enough to the community for a while now to sticky it. I think a lot of what keeps the boards so active is the internal rivalries.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Figured this has been integral enough to the community for a while now to sticky it. I think a lot of what keeps the boards so active is the internal rivalries.

Glad to be a part of the community, as well.

Also updated your highlighted videos a bit. You beating Kimidori in tournament I think is a bit too notable to not have on the front page. I realize I've neglected that section for a while, so I'll probably look for other video examples of our higher ranked players to showcase.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Certain people ( you know who you are if you're reading this) have been leveling up to various degrees. I might be a bit quiet on Smashboards currently but know that I've got my eye on everyone's progress.

I have very optimistic expectations for @adom4. He's got a lot to prove.

 

[Vermanubis]

Certain people ( you know who you are if you're reading this) have been leveling up to various degrees. I might be a bit quiet on Smashboards currently but know that I've got my eye on everyone's progress.

I have very optimistic expectations for @adom4. He's got a lot to prove.

I'm dying to see both how sub-S <and> S change. Gungnir's nowhere to be found, I haven't had a tourney for almost 3 months, Kalm's been mum on his results for a long while now despite going to tourneys almost every week, and GTB, as far as I know, is keeping pretty level. I think people are wising up to GTB in his area, given his most recent videos, but he still rarely fails to impress.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm dying to see both how sub-S <and> S change. Gungnir's nowhere to be found, I haven't had a tourney for almost 3 months, Kalm's been mum on his results for a long while now despite going to tourneys almost every week, and GTB, as far as I know, is keeping pretty level. I think people are wising up to GTB in his area, given his most recent videos, but he still rarely fails to impress.

An interesting proposition, although I question as to which direction you're leading me in. I'd of course be willing to edit these tiers if concrete ideas surfaced.

I could consolidate tiers in the absence of more impressive Ganon results lately, though I feel this wouldn't be a popular decision.

 

[Vermanubis]

An interesting proposition, although I question as to which direction you're leading me in. I'd of course be willing to edit these tiers if concrete ideas surfaced.

I could consolidate tiers in the absence of more impressive Ganon results lately, though I feel this wouldn't be a popular decision.

Not necessarily leading in any particular direction, just that I'm curious to see what develops. It's always awkward for me to make assertions about S tier, since I'm ultimately indirectly commenting on myself, which I don't necessarily like to do, since I do have my own thoughts on my skill level, be it lower or higher, but I just don't think speaking on my behalf is appropriate without data.

In other words, S, in my opinion, is fine as it stands in terms of data. No one's really proven themselves above the other yet, at least, not on paper. In terms of my personal perception of skill levels, from recent viewings, I think Kalm has some catching up to do with GTB. Kalm's competition is certainly not easy, and I'd argue it's much heavier than GTB's, but the more I analyze both their vids, the more I'm convinced that GTB just has a more consistent playstyle. Kalm is truly great player, but I remain reasonably convinced that his playstyle is too predicated on reads and short bursts of momentum.

Gungnir I'm still the same about. I've watched his vids a lot, and I just don't think his play is the kind you see in tournaments. He's excellent, and without a doubt would succeed in a tournament environment, but I think much of what distinguishes him in his vids would be absent. Reason being, most of his opponents are willing to charge in and sort of play dangerous games with him, so he can dazzle a bit and put on a show.

So, again, I think the sort of nebulous ordering of S right now is still pretty justified. But as far as my personal opinion goes, excluding myself, it would be Gungnir/GTB tied, then Kalm. I think Kalm could get there pretty easily, he just needs to approach his playstyle in a new way and really pay attention to his decision-making -- something I'm working on as well between optimization and so forth.

Speaking of optimization, this is something I wrote in a hurry a while back. It's awfully written and horribly organized, so forgive me.

Spoiler

People wanna get better at Smash and there are two ways to get better: one way is easier, and but results become asymptotic. The other is a lot harder, and takes a lot of studying and takes a lot more effort.

Look at this big-ass string of letters: fccfdialolcdckgbhrkoa

Now repeat it without looking at it.

Hard... isn't it?

How about now?

fcc fdia lol cdc kgb hr koa

The pattern's been delimited by spaces. Each unique "block" has a boundary which makes it easy to identify. This is how you break plateaus in Smash or anything mental. I'll get to that in a second.

The first part is the grind. Trying to grind to improve without any particular goal or aim. That's entropy at its best, and as nature models nicely for us, entropy takes <a long time>. When you brainlessly grind, you're playing the lottery, and likewise, if you expect your results to get better every time you play the lottery, you have a hideously frustrating perspective on how reality works.

The grind takes you far at low > mid > relatively high levels. But the difference between top level play and high-level is fractional. The threshold is the x axis, as it were, and below is the asymptote, struggling in vain perpetuity, but never quite reaching it. The reason grinding's so effective at these levels is because they're the levels at which you learn spacing, combos and maybe even pick up an effectiv habit or two.

The second one is deliberate optimization, which involves a lot of explicit pattern recognition, partitioning and focus. Using that delimiter example, when you're in a match and someone's styling on you, or you're failing to catch onto patterns, it's because you can't effectively recognize the big picture of what's happening. You're trying to process all of these minutae, but not seeing the path through, so you're stuck in each individual moment of savory ass-kicking.

By recognizing these things and knowing, beforehand, how to respond, you optimize your game. When you're baited into doing something, you recognize it as an explicit bait, and instead of being baited, use it as an opportunity for a 50-50 by manipulating their expectations. When someone does something punishable, if you've "delimited" that situation and recognize it immediately, your punish becomes a mondo FSmash instead of a grab.

You can define things in terms of those "blocks." Their habits in the negative state (jumping after getting launched, airdodging, mashing, etc.), how they deal with whiffing and cooldown (spotdodging after, attacking) their recovery habits, their approach tendencies, their set-ups, etc. Once you "blockify" that info, you're not forced to chase these little itty bits of changing information, and instead recognize marked differences (such as them modulating their playstyle from, say, jumping in negative to just going to the ledge).

(Example: breakdown of negative state after Ganon DTilt: they either jump away, airdodge to the ground, save their jump and go to the ledge, or attack. Each to which I have an explicit answer.)

Minimizing unnecessary risks, punishing appropriately, quickly adapting to changes (by virtue of study, documentation [even if mental; some people def keep notepads]) are all things which come when you introduce your inner monologue into the game. You may notice you do amazingly versus certain kinds of people, and get bodied by others. That's probably because you've developed an intuition for certain things, but intuition's like RAM: there's only so much of it available before you run out, and storing all of your knowledge in RAM is a horrible idea. Frustration is the result of a big-time failure to understand what's going on and being overloaded with conflicting information from ineffective categorization.

What makes this difficult above all other things is that playing in such a way that you listen to your reason rather than your intuition is less comfortable, but ultimately less successful. At first it involves dividing your attention between playing and talking to yourself, which is uncomfortable and one reverts to old habits quickly. Don't do that.

The better you can delimit a "block of information," the better you'll play. And all that involves is a little bit of problem solving and a <willingness to play in ways in which you may not be entirely accustomed/comfortable>, e.g. patient.

The main idea is simply that, and especially applicable to us as Ganon mains, that we have to become experts at immediately downloading our opponents, and that there's a definite metholodogy to perfecting achieving that end. I practice it mostly by taking a moment between matches and itemizing how someone fits into categories: reactions in the negative, set-ups, ledge habits, approach habits, recovery habits, etc. and recording answers to each. Ever since actively doing this, I've noticed my wasteful movement has dramatically decreased and there're few things I don't know how to deal.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

In regards to what you've said of me, Vermanubis, I agree for the most part.

I have been slopping a lot lately with inconsistency and weak petty failures in my playstyle - and, while I do want to blame my social life starting to take a toll on me by getting in my way, that's something I cannot do.

I believe I can put myself back in the game with ease from a little Golden Frieza style training, and start working and displaying my results again.

But, with that said, I find S Tier the way it is okay and accurate right now, other than perhaps switching you with GTB.

My results have been num lately, but they are better than what all other Ganon mains have been getting thus far and with the level of competition I have, it is definitely not easy (not trying to dismiss Opana and Swoops wonderful results lately, whom both, by the way, should be moved up a few notches closer to S Tier.)

You haven't been to a tournament lately, have you? A more ongoing tournament player producing results should absolutely stay above those that are not (which reminds me, I still haven't updated the tournament results page for a long while, you should have it stickied up here and I will do so). A good result should be considered from as far back as, what I think should be six months on these rankings.

As for Gungnir, I still consider his skill gap above myself, you and GTB, but that's all that's holding him up in S Tier right now.

 

[Z1GMA]

As far as execution goes, Gungnir's #1, in my eyes.

 

[Vermanubis]

In regards to what you've said of me, Vermanubis, I agree for the most part.

I have been slopping a lot lately with inconsistency and weak petty failures in my playstyle - and, while I do want to blame my social life starting to take a toll on me by getting in my way, that's something I cannot do.

I believe I can put myself back in the game with ease from a little Golden Frieza style training, and start working and displaying my results again.

But, with that said, I find S Tier the way it is okay and accurate right now, other than perhaps switching you with GTB.

My results have been num lately, but they are better than what all other Ganon mains have been getting thus far and with the level of competition I have, it is definitely not easy (not trying to dismiss Opana and Swoops wonderful results lately, whom both, by the way, should be moved up a few notches closer to S Tier.)

You haven't been to a tournament lately, have you? A more ongoing tournament player producing results should absolutely stay above those that are not (which reminds me, I still haven't updated the tournament results page for a long while, you should have it stickied up here and I will do so). A good result should be enough to be considered from as far back as, what I think should be six months on these rankings.

As for Gungnir, I still consider his skill gap above myself, you and GTB, but that's all that's holding him up in S Tier right now.

Fair enough. Though, I want to be frank in regard to the underlined part. I don't entirely agree. I don't know the exact results, but I've watched almost all of your streams, and I don't think it's fair to say that more results = higher quality results. You indeed have the most results, but in almost all streams I've watched, I didn't see wins to reinforce the numbers, whatever they might have been. The matches I saw were indeed against good players, but to say your primary obstacles are your areas finest players would be not entirely true. As someone who lives in a region where my tournament neophyte Ike friend was able to take 13th in a 50 man tournament, I'm critical of numbers alone.

As we've all seemingly agreed on before, quality of performance takes precedence over numbers in a vacuum. That being said, I think it's not entirely fair to say, categorically, that you've the best results. Though I may be delusional in thinking so, and please forgive me if I am, since it's entirely possible, I'm reasonably proud of my most recent placing, having beaten most of our best players in one swoop to get 2nd. Not to say this is the best necessarily, but combining that with the massive commitment to attend tournaments for me, making them very high-stakes endeavors, it seems a bit hasty to so easily dismiss that.

As for me, I'm curious: what do you all think separates the S tiers from each other, good or bad? For example, results aside, what strengths and weaknesses do the S tiers exhibit, and what strengths/weaknesses justify their ordering?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I appreciate how humble you try to be Vermanubis , but there's obviously no explicit clause here that you can't advocate for yourself. As long as it holds to public scrutiny within reasonable doubt (which, as theoretically messy as it may be, I put fairly high faith in our collective viewpoints to hold judgement). I quite value the reasoning behind your perceptions, always proves interesting.

I'm moving you to the top for now as overall I actually feel you've done an outstanding job at becoming an incredibly well-rounded Ganon, if we're talking quality of gameplay. Probably the main thing I'd even bother citing as an issue in your playstyle is uh...no Wii-U, lol. Certain ATs and movements I'm pretty sure you'll be more comfortable with when you evolve from the 3DS.

As others in Japan have said about Kalm, he is "strong with the attack". I'd say that along with your assessment of Kalm's volatile shortcomings is a pretty accurate summary of what defines him.

As for GTB and Gungnir, a big thing about both of them that impresses me though is sheer reaction time. The way GTB lands F-smash on ledge getups and Gungnir just generally sneaks in grabs in neutral are kinda easy to pick out in a crowd of Ganon mains. I feel traditionally GTB has sometimes been a bit weak on his grab followups, while Gungnir I feel sometimes suffers in terms of matchup knowledge, outside of silly punishes.

 

[Sykkamorre]

I think it would be prudent to have the theoretical list of requirements to enter each tier posted on the OP, mostly due to the pretty large jumps in player skill in the tiers themselves and between them.

A nice touch would also be a little thing after each persons names noting their strengths and weaknesses (if applicable) to see if there are any interesting correlations in playstyle and ranking.

Might be silly ideas brought on by too many drinks over the Christmas period, so if they are daft then ignore me wholeheartedly.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think it would be prudent to have the theoretical list of requirements to enter each tier posted on the OP, mostly due to the pretty large jumps in player skill in the tiers themselves and between them.

A nice touch would also be a little thing after each persons names noting their strengths and weaknesses (if applicable) to see if there are any interesting correlations in playstyle and ranking.

Might be silly ideas brought on by too many drinks over the Christmas period, so if they are daft then ignore me wholeheartedly.

It's pretty hard to be super concrete about requirements to be in each tier without it looking really silly, outside of tournament results (or recorded performance vs other noted high level players) being a major factor for S/A tier placement, and that the skill gap between S/A tier is in fact technically the smallest overall between tiers.

But for the sake of completeness, I'll link the OP to this post with this basic outline:

S/A tier: A combination of top placing tournament results, and/or competitive victories against known high level players
B tier: Demonstration of solid game fundamentals and advanced technique execution
C tier: Comfortable basic mastery of Ganondorf (knowing when and where to use each of his moves, essentially)
D tier: Low level Ganon enthusiast
E tier: Literally new to playing

Videos (especially of tournament sets or money matches) are prioritized over results, which are prioritized over word of mouth. It doesn't do me a lot of good to tell me that you beat X known player if for instance I don't actually know who the player is, or if they played very badly that particular set thus not giving a real opportunity to demonstrate your skill in a matchup.

 

[Deotay]

Honestly I don't really see a point in ordering S Tier.

Personally there are two main things I use this list for:

1. As a catalog of people I should keep my eye on so I can watch and learn.
2. Understanding where I am and how close I am to progressing to a new tier.

The ordering for the other tiers is important because it shows how close you are to reaching the next tier. It's also more relevant in some tiers because of huge skill gaps within the tiers themselves. For S Tier, there is no further progression and as far as I can tell (please correct me if I'm wrong) there doesn't appear much of a skill gap between players.

As I see it, S Tier should be for those who have something to teach every Ganondorf in every tier below them. As of now, I feel that all 4 S Tier Ganondorfs fulfill that requirement. I don't feel that there is a point to defining an order outside of feeding an ego (no offense). I understand the need to be competitive, especially for those at the top, but I really believe that it's a fruitless effort and more trouble than it's worth.

Even if there was an order, does that make the other S Tiers less relevant than the "Top" of S Tier? No, it doesn't. S Tiers are all players that should be watched and learned from as a section, not as a ranking. It's not like I'll go over Youtube videos and be like "Oh look, X Player had his sets uploaded but I already watched Y Player's sets so I don't need to watch these." I'm absolutely going to watch both.

The best utility for this list, I feel, is simply knowing who my peers are. I intuitively understand which players are respected for legitimate reasons, which players have a ways to go and where I stand among them.

The Community Tier List shouldn't be a battle of egos, it shouldn't be a popularity contest and maybe not even a document of facts or conjectures. What it should be is a tool to help the community evolve and improve.

tl;dr I'm not interested in who's the best, I'm interested in who I can learn from and what I can learn from them.

 

[Swoops]

My results have been num lately, but they are better than what all other Ganon mains have been getting thus far and with the level of competition I have, it is definitely not easy (not trying to dismiss Opana and Swoops wonderful results lately, whom both, by the way, should be moved up a few notches closer to S Tier.)

Baw. I appreciate the kind words Ray_Kalm . Personally I feel there is still a good deal of growth I can achieve as my own results have been getting sloppy. I can either do really well and take a top spot or buster early out of the tournament. I could blame game issues or my insistence on helping to stream our events, but the truth is that I'm a pretty emotional player and I can be inconsistent.

I'll do my best to fix that though with these next few tourneys leading up to G3.

 

[Vermanubis]

I appreciate how humble you try to be Vermanubis , but there's obviously no explicit clause here that you can't advocate for yourself. As long as it holds to public scrutiny within reasonable doubt (which, as theoretically messy as it may be, I put fairly high faith in our collective viewpoints to hold judgement). I quite value the reasoning behind your perceptions, always proves interesting.

I'm moving you to the top for now as overall I actually feel you've done an outstanding job at becoming an incredibly well-rounded Ganon, if we're talking quality of gameplay. Probably the main thing I'd even bother citing as an issue in your playstyle is uh...no Wii-U, lol. Certain ATs and movements I'm pretty sure you'll be more comfortable with when you evolve from the 3DS.

As others in Japan have said about Kalm, he is "strong with the attack". I'd say that along with your assessment of Kalm's volatile shortcomings is a pretty accurate summary of what defines him.

As for GTB and Gungnir, a big thing about both of them that impresses me though is sheer reaction time. The way GTB lands F-smash on ledge getups and Gungnir just generally sneaks in grabs in neutral are kinda easy to pick out in a crowd of Ganon mains. I feel traditionally GTB has sometimes been a bit weak on his grab followups, while Gungnir I feel sometimes suffers in terms of matchup knowledge, outside of silly punishes.

Technical errors are indeed still a thing with me for what I suspect is that very reason. But I appreciate the appraisal A2, and it's certainly motivating to know I've polished off a few rough edges.

As for self-advocacy, I'm not necessarily opposed to it, just that I feel if I'm deserving of anything, if it's not obvious enough such that others recognize it, that probably means I'll end up arguing semantics and splitting the same hairs which could easily be split against me.

Gungnir and GTB definitely have things I lack, namely better reactions in some cases. This is something I feel I'm improving on as I make my approach to the game more scientific and less extemporaneous. I think my recent loss to our Lucario made me realize I need to approach the game differently. I played so well against the Sheik, but for some reason made loads of poor decisions against our Lucario, mostly because I failed to take the MU seriously and study it, despite having played it more often than Sheik.

Honestly I don't really see a point in ordering S Tier.

Personally there are two main things I use this list for:

1. As a catalog of people I should keep my eye on so I can watch and learn.
2. Understanding where I am and how close I am to progressing to a new tier.

The ordering for the other tiers is important because it shows how close you are to reaching the next tier. It's also more relevant in some tiers because of huge skill gaps within the tiers themselves. For S Tier, there is no further progression and as far as I can tell (please correct me if I'm wrong) there doesn't appear much of a skill gap between players.

As I see it, S Tier should be for those who have something to teach every Ganondorf in every tier below them. As of now, I feel that all 4 S Tier Ganondorfs fulfill that requirement. I don't feel that there is a point to defining an order outside of feeding an ego (no offense). I understand the need to be competitive, especially for those at the top, but I really believe that it's a fruitless effort and more trouble than it's worth.

Even if there was an order, does that make the other S Tiers less relevant than the "Top" of S Tier? No, it doesn't. S Tiers are all players that should be watched and learned from as a section, not as a ranking. It's not like I'll go over Youtube videos and be like "Oh look, X Player had his sets uploaded but I already watched Y Player's sets so I don't need to watch these." I'm absolutely going to watch both.

The best utility for this list, I feel, is simply knowing who my peers are. I intuitively understand which players are respected for legitimate reasons, which players have a ways to go and where I stand among them.

The Community Tier List shouldn't be a battle of egos, it shouldn't be a popularity contest and maybe not even a document of facts or conjectures. What it should be is a tool to help the community evolve and improve.

tl;dr I'm not interested in who's the best, I'm interested in who I can learn from and what I can learn from them.

All excellent points. Though, there is another side to things. I can't speaker for the others, but the ordering, in any capacity, has been a motivator for me to improve. While the list should definitely serve as a point of reference for Ganon mains, it also should, and as far as I can tell, very much has, serve as motivation to compete. If wanting to be ordered higher than someone else is tantamount to ego-boosting, then one would have say the same for wanting to place 1st in a tournament.

All the same, very good points, and I agree, it shouldn't be an ego-fest. Ideally, competitive honesty should be present such that one should want to be at the top when they're the actual best: not just so people will <think> they're the best. If I'm not the best, I certainly don't want to be showcased as such, even if the prestige is nice.

I think as long as the discussion can be kept as mature as it has been thus far, there's no reason ranking can't be something that pumps the blood of the Ganon boards. As I said, without the rankings, and knowing I'm under the scrutiny of my fellow Ganons, I'd have much less motivation to improve and compete.

I also wanna encourage people to make their opinions known. These sorts of things can become somewhat political, and thus far, it seems we've avoided that. Naturally, some people's clout as top players or whatever will have greater weight to certain matters, but the last thing I want is for people to feel that they can't make their opinions public for fear of starting fires.

 

[Opana]

I have top 3d in all but 2 tourneys since my year hiatus iirc, getting 2nd to an mk today as well. Can't really prove my opponents are as good as I feel they are tbh, but me along with players who are pretty frequent at my usual tourneys have outplaced #5 in Delaware(Who I eliminated). A Palutena player that isn`t too frequent has eliminated Gohan and been outplaced by those who are frequent to my area too. I'm not trying to boast or anything like that but I don't stop by here as much so I figured I'd update in a somewhat relevant thread lol. I'm happy with my new placing though I have been aiming for S since the start of the thread lol.

I use this thread as a motivational tool to improve and reach the top tbh, it's even kept me using Ganon when I'm tempted to drop him. Sounds kinda silly when I type it tbh, but yeah I'm glad we have a list like this. I'm also really glad I didn't move until I got results, I wanted it to be that way so I wouldn't be content playing wifi. And I've realized how much better I am in a tourney setting too, my reaction time and ability to adapt has kinda skyrocketed.

Despite doing as well as I have though I'm aware of some issues I need to fix, mainly my risk/reward decision making and adapting even faster.

 

[Nintenbro_Zeke]

Keep it up Opana! ever since I watched a few of your matches I've been incorporating Ganon's UpB at the top as a kill option. I got (3 so far) one being in a tournament. Very satisfying and no one expects it.

My goal for my area is to be at least top 10 and considered one of the top Ganon players.
And my first tournament I placed 4th or 5th (single elimination, lame.) but the top 3 were told to be the top 3 in my state so I'll take that as a start.

 

[Opana]

http://hitboxarena.challonge.com/mewyears2016wiiusingles

Tied for 13th today, took game 2 vs Angel Cortes though which was really awesome. I threw the nana up to force a shield then ran off into a ganoncide. Game 1 he wrecked me with zdrop to dair which was really innovative and hype as well, and game 3 he 2 stocked me. We went bf, bf, then fd.

That's awesome to hear Zeke, I remember when I was watching and taking from players like verm and z1g, so having players looking towards me for ideas is a similar and great feeling. I'm glad you did well though, dd kills are always great and have closed out many games for me in tourney with proper use.

I shoud make this ktar too, hoping to get out of pools lol!

 

[Scraptor]

Hello my evil brethren! It's been a long time (I shouldn't left you.. without a dope beat to step to...step to...step to) since I posted or really checked out the boards. I came back because I missed it and I realized that I been playing a lot but honestly its been just that playing without goal in mind. I played soooo much Ganon that I feel I know I should be better than I am. So to Vermanubis point you have to have a plan or you will just kind of spin your wheels like I did. Not that I haven't got better at all just the sense of me having a lot of bad habits and knowing when I threw out a move I shouldn't and being able to tell when I playing someone that knows the character they are playing.

I could hit everyone with a bunch of legitimate excesses why I am not better but in reality it is because I haven't put in the effort to be better. Trust me I know the struggle. Most of the time I just want to get online a play and not think about it, but then all the things I learned on the boards pop up and in my head and I lose to Link spam or I SD or keep reacting the same way to pressure or roll too much and I am like WHY AM I DOING THIS? I KNOW BETTER! The answer is easy because I haven't practiced better.

I thought this was a good place to jump back into posting. As I was around when this post started and it is amazing to see how many more people are added! It's also a reminder that I have done nothing to improve my standing since I got on the list. I really see it as a grouping of really talented players that I can learn from and measure myself against. Now ranking does seem harder and until more of us have more results I can see the challenge of that, but until someone says and shows that they are above and beyond the other people in the tier I think it is fine the way it is. I mean it really doesn't matter because I am now on a quest to DESTROY YOU ALL!

 

[Opana]

Worth noting that I didn't make ktar, every time I plan to it never works lol. On the plus side SmahCon may be a possibility, unsure until it gets closer though.

Also some stuff on wifi is really effective that otherwise wouldn't be, if you can try and play some more offline. I was really inconsistent on wifi but offline is really an entirely different scenariofrom my exp. I'm not saying to completely blame wifi, but from what you've said sounds similar to my experience where sometimes I'd play great and other times I couldn't do what I intended. I guess what I'm getting at is don't get discouraged by your losses and keep up the good work. Use your losses as an example of what to work on as well, with this line of thinking I've beaten everyone I've lost to in tourney the next time we played. Even the matches where I win I try to look for holes in my game to cover up, and I'm not talking about watching videos of yourself(which can be a great resource btw), but in my mind I'd break down key moments of matches I felt I should've done better, win or lose.

 

[Vermanubis]

Got a Dorf who wants to know where he stands among us.

I've yet to give a really thorough examination, but I wanna know what you guys think.

Edit: My opinion's somewhere in C. Basic fundamentals down along with some basic Ganon tech, but tends to make really unsafe decisions and doesn't capitalize on a lot of advantageous situations/tends to stick to one pattern (USmash baits, mid-range wizkicks, etc.)

 

[Scarlet Jile]

As a Ganondorf in "C" tier who feels confident that I am considerably better at the game than the one in the video, he might have to look a little lower.

Then again, A2 still bops me in the ditto, so who knows lol

 

[Deotay]

As a Ganondorf in "C" tier who feels confident that I am considerably better at the game than the one in the video, he might have to look a little lower.

Then again, A2 still bops me in the ditto, so who knows lol

A2 bops everyone in the ditto.

 

[jmanup85]

A2 bops everyone in the ditto.

Speak for yourself lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

To my own credit, I recently placed 5th in a not extremely stacked 53 man local, with the vast majority of my tournament wins being with Ganon, one being against a pretty competent Peach, who I know in retrospect probably was inexperienced at the matchup, but was no pushover regardless beating my Dr. Mario.

http://challonge.com/msm33singles

And for the record, I don't think this yet qualifies me to be higher than B-tier. I've still yet to take games off the people who I explicitly recognize as primary top placing threats in my region, and I got bopped at Genesis 3, stacked as it may have been.

I also am not sure if the listed video is by far the most flattering performance from Vishera (it's relatively old for that matter), as I do think I've seen him play better. I think my vague recollection is somewhere in C tier is appropriate, but I'm holding off on ranking him for now.

Also yeah to go in line with what other people have been saying about my knowledge of the ditto, I'd definitely prefer to analyze how others perform in some other matchups as well.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Added Matt Hazard to the Ganon tier list after learning he placed 17th out of 200 at ESAM saga here in SoCal.

For those that didn't notice, yes, adom jumped to A tier due to his respectable performance at the Germany major.

 

[Opana]

Did he go all dorf?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Did he go all dorf?

Yep.

 

[Scraptor]

Added Matt Hazard to the Ganon tier list after learning he placed 17th out of 200 at ESAM saga here in SoCal.

For those that didn't notice, yes, adom jumped to A tier due to his respectable performance at the Germany major.

Good job Matt and Adom

 

[krazyzyko]

I voted blasphemy because I think Opana is da bess.

 

[Z1GMA]

Haven't looked in here for a while. Why is Ganon the Beast so high?
Recap, plz.