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Data Hero-King's Council: Video Analysis

DariusM27

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cd9q_IJVwog

Pugwest vs a Ryu at Genesis 3

I went to Bourbon State Smash tourny yesterday, in Louisville, and got thumped by a Ryu in similar fashion, a guy called Darkshad who is supposedly one of the best Ryu's in the nation. He went on to place 2ND, losing to Rosa in the final.

Ryu is ridiculous.

Discuss.
 
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Vipermoon

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Yeah it's sad, really. Even if you beat Ryu in neutral most of the time (which isn't hard to do), you're still probably going to lose because he does 2X the damage you do, has 10X to combos, and times the kill setups.
 

DariusM27

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Yeah it's sad, really. Even if you beat Ryu in neutral most of the time (which isn't hard to do), you're still probably going to lose because he does 2X the damage you do, has 10X to combos, and times the kill setups.

Yeah, to win you have to play so good that you can avoid taking hardly any hits from a player who is probably at least as good as you are, except he has projectiles.
If he had moves with high commitment, like Cloud's dtilt or dash attack, then at least you could rely on shield or dodge more.
The Ryu in this video elbowed Pugs shield several times, but he could have went for his shieldbreaking move after just two elbows instead, as that happened to me the other day.
Yeah, Ryu is nuts.
 
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Bowserboy3

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I'm unsure if this is the correct thread of posting this, but it is video related I suppose. If it needs merging with another thread (maybe with the general buffing discussion. I posted it in there anyway, so it may need removing from here) then by all means go ahead mods! Anyway...

I've been analyzing this Umbra Clock Tower preview looking for any Marth changes seeing as he is included in the fight. Unless I am completely missing something or they are playing with custom equipment on, I noticed a couple of Marth's aerials deal more damage...

Here's the video:

Right, at 0:15, watch Bayonetta's damage counter. She get's hit by Marth's tipper Fair, and then by Corrin's Fair. The damage counter briefly stops before Corrin hits her. She is at 30%, and by my knowledge, tipper Fair should deal 10%, taking her to 40% right? Well in the video, the counter briefly stops at 43%, just before Corrin hits her. Looking at this, unless customs are being used, tipper fair could do a whopping 3% more, 13%. It can't be a one off, because I see at 1:01, a staled tipper Fair does 12%, still more than a fresh current 10%.

The second thing I saw was at 0:35. Marth hits Bayonetta with tipper Uair. She is at 82%, so tipper Uair should deal 12% damage, meaning she should end up at 94% right? Well she ends up at 96%... This is another I can't explain. Unless they buffed Uair tipper to 14% too, I really can't find explanations for these. Also, at 0:54 I see Marth hit a sourspot Bair that does 10% damage, rather than 9%. Does Bayonetta take extra damage or something? I don't see how, because Marth lands a sourspot Fsmash at 0:46 and that does the expected 13% damage. Huh, who knows.

I heard somebody say that it looks like Marth's Fsmash has an altered animation that gives it more reach, but to me, that looks like placebo, I can't see a change.

Thoughts and opinions other Marth players?
 
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DariusM27

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I'm unsure if this is the correct thread of posting this, but it is video related I suppose. If it needs merging with another thread (maybe with the general buffing discussion. I posted it in there anyway, so it may need removing from here) then by all means go ahead mods! Anyway...

I've been analyzing this Umbra Clock Tower preview looking for any Marth changes seeing as he is included in the fight. Unless I am completely missing something or they are playing with custom equipment on, I noticed a couple of Marth's aerials deal more damage...

Here's the video:

Right, at 0:15, watch Bayonetta's damage counter. She get's hit by Marth's tipper Fair, and then by Corrin's Fair. The damage counter briefly stops before Corrin hits her. She is at 30%, and by my knowledge, tipper Fair should deal 10%, taking her to 40% right? Well in the video, the counter briefly stops at 43%, just before Corrin hits her. Looking at this, unless customs are being used, tipper fair could do a whopping 3% more, 13%. It can't be a one off, because I see at 1:01, a staled tipper Fair does 12%, still more than a fresh current 10%.

The second thing I saw was at 0:35. Marth hits Bayonetta with tipper Uair. She is at 82%, so tipper Uair should deal 12% damage, meaning she should end up at 94% right? Well she ends up at 96%... This is another I can't explain. Unless they buffed Uair tipper to 14% too, I really can't find explanations for these. Also, at 0:54 I see Marth hit a sourspot Bair that does 10% damage, rather than 9%. Does Bayonetta take extra damage or something? I don't see how, because Marth lands a sourspot Fsmash at 0:46 and that does the expected 13% damage. Huh, who knows.

I heard somebody say that it looks like Marth's Fsmash has an altered animation that gives it more reach, but to me, that looks like placebo, I can't see a change.

Thoughts and opinions other Marth players?
Head on over to the General Discussion board, playa. Marth mains be talking bout the changes, and alot of it seems to be different than it appears. But thanks for posting :)
 

DariusM27

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Db1 coming at frame 6 instead of 7, and added damage to the nair, as well as probably improved hitboxes, makes this string easier and more fun to use than ever

Also dair to tipper uair, I hope that happens a lot in the future!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Bh0tj4xZg

Utilt buffed by 3 frames makes follow ups easier than ever! And possible improved hitboxes make it a great option after landing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJs70NLgV9Y

Marth gets Hoo Ha on Bayonetta and fastfallers in general!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eclHGqDvNi4

Huge Hitboxes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLVWRi6fFio

Dair to Tipper Usmash combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsP-4yJJVVo

Nair1 to fastfall rollpunish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzgS8Kun1rs


Please post videos showcasing some new things about marth, the return of the king!
 
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DariusM27

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Here's a pre-patch vs Diddy Kong at a official tourny in Louisville Ky. The Diddy Kong was Sye from Cincinatti, who is one of the best competing Diddys in the region, so... I didn't win, lol. He went undefeated until top 5 or so.
He ended up getting 3rd I think, Ryu (Darkshad) got 2nd and Rosaluma (LCC Joey) got 1st.

All recorded matches from the tourny are on the youtube channel. I got knocked into losers by Darkshad's Ryu, who might be one of the best Ryu players alive, no joke. Which I say a bit grudgingly because Ryu tilt to kill is... not cool... lol.

I'd love to hear some insight on the matches, thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvYPJZ8ITbQ
 
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Vipermoon

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Here's a pre-patch vs Diddy Kong at a official tourny in Louisville Ky. The Diddy Kong was Sye from Cincinatti, who is one of the best competing Diddys in the region, so... I didn't win, lol.
He ended up getting 3rd I think, Ryu (Darkshad) got 2nd and Rosaluma (LCC Joey) got 1st.

All recorded matches from the tourny are on the youtube channel. I got knocked into losers by Darkshad's Ryu, who might be one of the best Ryu players alive, no joke.

I'd love to hear some insight on the matches, thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvYPJZ8ITbQ
Well considering that region is midwest, that absolutely isn't true. But anyway, don't have time to watch the whole thing. The Diddy MU sucks hard, I know that much.
 

DariusM27

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Well considering that region is midwest, that absolutely isn't true. But anyway, don't have time to watch the whole thing. The Diddy MU sucks hard, I know that much.
I did beat everyone else in the pool though, lol. Honestly, I was off just slightly on my spacing and timing on a few moves. There was one time I could have hit him with a fully charged shieldbreaker tipper which could have taken the stock, if I had jumped back a little further, since he clearly wasn't thinking about the momentum boost it gives Marth, but I miss spaced it and got sour hit.

A lot of those wiffed nairs looked like they should have hit, and will definitely hit now, lol!

There were other times that I missed open punishes, which I think happens in this MU more often than others because I'm so focused on evasion and defense that it's hard to tell when a punish will present itself. Maybe if I played the MU more often. It was also my first match of the night, so I was a bit cold.
 
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Bowserboy3

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I'm not here posting an awesome discovery, or anything super hype. Just a cool match I played against a Corrin online the other day. I don't usually taunt, but I found out that taunting after every kill really worked this guy up. I'm such an ass... xD

 

DariusM27

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I'm not here posting an awesome discovery, or anything super hype. Just a cool match I played against a Corrin online the other day. I don't usually taunt, but I found out that taunting after every kill really worked this guy up. I'm such an ***... xD

Fun replay, great stuff :)
 

DariusM27

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I'm not here posting an awesome discovery, or anything super hype. Just a cool match I played against a Corrin online the other day. I don't usually taunt, but I found out that taunting after every kill really worked this guy up. I'm such an ***... xD

Shield to ftilt is sooo good now.

I like how corrins go for the grab like they are going to get it, or even if they did that it would matter.

Do you think falling uair connects better than before? I think falling uair connects better than before :)
 

Bowserboy3

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Somebody here may know... are there any stages with the exact same blast zones in Smash Wii U as in Brawl?

A prime example is Smashville... are it's blast zones/boundaries exactly the same as in Brawl? It might seem a fairly dumb question, but I have something I need to do...
 

Vipermoon

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Somebody here may know... are there any stages with the exact same blast zones in Smash Wii U as in Brawl?

A prime example is Smashville... are it's blast zones/boundaries exactly the same as in Brawl? It might seem a fairly dumb question, but I have something I need to do...
Probably Temple and a few others
 

Vipermoon

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That Nair 1 damage going up to 5% really helps combos. On top of that it has more range/an easier tipper so overall Nair 1 is way better.
 

DariusM27

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Yeah, I'm still not entirely used to it, but it's still working.

Falling Uair - Full hop Fair - Nair actually registers as a combo in training mode, random fact, lol. It's not really very reliable or practical, but, eh, it's a thing. I REEEALLY wish Full hop fair stringed into a nair1 to fsmash tipper, lol. It's so close to being able to. Maybe if Nair1 had less endlag. lol... :^)
 
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Bowserboy3

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This... is beautiful... The mods have begun.


This is kinda unreal to watch. I think it's safe to say that none of this would be included in any future patches (if any), and that doesn't really bother me much. I still think all Marth super needs is better AC frames on Fair (maybe Uair), and less knockback on F/Dthrows. That's all I feel he really super needs. Perhaps a frame or two of landing lag shaved off of Fair, Uair and Nair would be cool, but the other things I think are needed most. Anyway...

That Nair 1 damage going up to 5% really helps combos. On top of that it has more range/an easier tipper so overall Nair 1 is way better.
I don't know whether this is the case for you or anyone else, but I find the damage/tipper range increases on both hits of Nair's tipper help it connect easier. Like if I land the tipper of Nair 1 rising, I seem to be able to hit the opponent with tipper Nair 2 easier now. I must say, I'm liking it.
 

Vipermoon

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This... is beautiful... The mods have begun.


This is kinda unreal to watch. I think it's safe to say that none of this would be included in any future patches (if any), and that doesn't really bother me much. I still think all Marth super needs is better AC frames on Fair (maybe Uair), and less knockback on F/Dthrows. That's all I feel he really super needs. Perhaps a frame or two of landing lag shaved off of Fair, Uair and Nair would be cool, but the other things I think are needed most. Anyway...



I don't know whether this is the case for you or anyone else, but I find the damage/tipper range increases on both hits of Nair's tipper help it connect easier. Like if I land the tipper of Nair 1 rising, I seem to be able to hit the opponent with tipper Nair 2 easier now. I must say, I'm liking it.
Yes, if you are rising with Nair, the stronger Nair 1 will help it connect better into Nair 2 because they take more knockback.
 

Vipermoon

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Such as good landing punish!
When would it be a good landing punish?

-spot dodge punish since you can hold the charge and comes out on frame 2 after release.
-knockdown punish at the ledge sometimes (back hit can cover the roll back, then it can outspace get-up attack and tipper the roll forward)
-ledge roll punish sometimes

It's way too slow to react against normal rolls but you can read them.

I would say out of shield punish, but usually you get the 8% hit and that never kills so it sucks.

Edit: okay there's one reason that I can think of for landing. For almost the entirety of the move, Marth is really low so this can punish aerials by making them miss.
 
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DariusM27

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When would it be a good landing punish?

-spot dodge punish since you can hold the charge and comes out on frame 2 after release.
-knockdown punish at the ledge sometimes (back hit can cover the roll back, then it can outspace get-up attack and tipper the roll forward)
-ledge roll punish sometimes

It's way too slow to react against normal rolls but you can read them.

I would say out of shield punish, but usually you get the 8% hit and that never kills so it sucks.

Edit: okay there's one reason that I can think of for landing. For almost the entirety of the move, Marth is really low so this can punish aerials by making them miss.
It punished the landing in the video
 

Vipermoon

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It punished the landing in the video
Technically it punished a landing but he was spamming short hop aerials so it was more like an inch forward perfect shield kind of thing than truly punishing a landing.
 

Bowserboy3

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Does anyone know if that last kill I got here was true or not? It would be pretty hype if it was.

I'll be honest, I think you should be able to jump out at that percent, right?


But this video made me realise something. Corrin's recovery is a bit worse than I envisioned. I know there are some people who say it's really bad, but I can't see that. However, I would have expected Corrin to be able to make it back from that stage spike. I still don't think it's terrible, but I can see why people might think that I suppose...

Edit: Looking at it, it looks like the played did the more diagonal version. Perhaps they could have made it back if it was the more vertical one.
 
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Vipermoon

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Does anyone know if that last kill I got here was true or not? It would be pretty hype if it was.

I'll be honest, I think you should be able to jump out at that percent, right?


But this video made me realise something. Corrin's recovery is a bit worse than I envisioned. I know there are some people who say it's really bad, but I can't see that. However, I would have expected Corrin to be able to make it back from that stage spike. I still don't think it's terrible, but I can see why people might think that I suppose...

Edit: Looking at it, it looks like the played did the more diagonal version. Perhaps they could have made it back if it was the more vertical one.
Jab doesn't combo into Fsmash until about 120 in this patch or something. Although it did help that you hit with the end of jab (so there was less cooldown) but yes, Corrin was still able to jump out or air dodge. Plus you have to consider that you may be doing Fsmash a frame or two after you technically can (since we tend to play it a bit safe to not get jab 2).

Corrin's recovery surrounds him in huge hitboxes. This makes him pretty easy to counter but less easy to swat away. So counter more
 

Bowserboy3

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Jab doesn't combo into Fsmash until about 120 in this patch or something. Although it did help that you hit with the end of jab (so there was less cooldown) but yes, Corrin was still able to jump out or air dodge. Plus you have to consider that you may be doing Fsmash a frame or two after you technically can (since we tend to play it a bit safe to not get jab 2).

Corrin's recovery surrounds him in huge hitboxes. This makes him pretty easy to counter but less easy to swat away. So counter more
I almost went straight for the Fsmash. Perhaps the Corrin was just expecting that and didn't expect the jab first... who knows. But I do like how Jab send opponents upwards regardless. Jab 1 into another move feels so nice.
 
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DariusM27

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So, falling nair1 from above can be a real threat, once you practice the spacing and get it down.
Just posting this vid to display the move/string.
I think it has a lot of potential, and this really couldn't be done as easily before 1.1.4 patch. It feels pretty automatic, if you set it up well.
In this case, it kind of pseudo punished villager's utilt attempt.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ-iiMuwZp4
 
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Hi, I want to post my Highlight with Marth. I think it was a good edgeguard, What you guys think? o3o (I'm new here and... hm... I think it would be a good way to introduce myself lol) https://youtu.be/yxpgdJzdCTs
 
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DariusM27

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That is some top notch marth play. Thanks for sharing.
 

DariusM27

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Vs Pikachu - Do not stay in the middle of the stage. Rather stay closer to the ledges. Pikachu mains typically do not do up b shenanigans near ledges as much.
Dancing blade the crap out of him. Also, you have to use all your moves, even down air, to your advantage. Sometimes down air is my best chance of pressuring and hitting Pika, even though it's risky. These days it's less risky with the shield damage it does.
And - Nair when you think he might up b. Also, you can swat his side b recovery with Fair, or counter if you are close enough.

Vs Ryu. - Be freaking perfect. Spam the heck out of side b. Use Up b to break out of combos, and hopefully grab ledge on your way down to avoid getting punished.
He WILL rush you down. Bait his approach and have a plan to either retaliate or gain safe space. Don't get cornered.
Use jab to swat away his projectiles. Jab recks those things. Great option.
Use counter strategically.
Get reeeally good at gimping him.
Watch Pugwest vs Ryu games. He does pretty good.
 
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