Data Hero-King's Council: Video Analysis

[Emblem Lord]

This thread is for Marth user's to post vids and then get analyzed by the Marth community. I will personally try to critique any vid that someone requests of me, but I invite all knowledgeable Marth players to join in.

This first post is just for vids that showcase exemplary Marth gameplay that we can all learn from.



Early video of solid Marth Gameplay from False. Good video to watch to form a baseline for your gameplan with Marth

Footage of one of the original Marth masters from the Melee days. Azen hasn't lost a step. If you want to understand how and why Marth is still a threat, look no further then Azen's gameplay. There is also great footage of Chillen's Lucina. Great stuff from both players and plenty to learn and absorb. Watch the spacing, the baits, the traps and remember Azen's motto.

"Don't jump into the ****"

Solid footage of NinjaLink's Marth. Though he prefaces by saying he hasn't used Marth much on 3DS he shows great knowledge and spacing with the Hero-King.

 

[Reynitsu]

That full hop F-Air into N-Air looks nice and a good way to compensate and get around the F-Air lag by landing with N-Air instead. It really shows how people are adapting into the new Marth. I think he will play out much better once they master the Pivot-Cancel F-Smash or F-Tilt which for me will somewhat compensate for a defensive SHFF F-Air when enemies charge at you. U-Air looks like it doesn't have landing lag so U-Air + Up Tilt will prolly be used more.

I also saw in the Shofu (Lucina) vs False (Marth) video where Marth F-throwed a Lucina at 0% and FOLLOWED UP with a tipper second swing N-Air. Then again, it looks like you might be able to double jump away from that but it just looked refreshing to see for me :3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6ZcWokoGQg#t=60 1:00 mark.

 

[Nike.]

Interesting video.

• I like the direction d-throw sends the opponent, they go straight up almost like an u-throw if they DI towards the stage. I like it.
• Haven't seen enough video for dancing blade but he missed the full combo a few times and then connects the whole thing towards the end. Wonder if it's just DI dependent.
• What really caught my eye was at 4:25, when he turned around during his double jump as he went for the spike. Was this dair specific or can Marth turn around and do any aerial? (e.g. fair -> turnaround fair/nair)
• Fox seemed to pressure Marth's shield quite well (oh gawd, it's melee all over again). Is shieldstun in smash4 significant? I cant tell what the options are out of shield. I hope it was just difficult for him since it's 3ds controls.

I really like this.

 

[Fex13]

marth seems to not being able to combo anymore.... he feels like a hit and run character.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

marth seems to not being able to combo anymore.... he feels like a hit and run character.

Keep in mind that the Marth footage that we have currently is not footage of someone who has perfected Marth in Smash 4. Combos will begin to appear in different matchups once players have tested him thoroughly and gotten more familiar with how he plays.

 

[grandmaster192]

Kinda want to see Marth and Lucina played with a C-stick before I judge too much. The way they're full hopping f-airs doesn't seem too safe. I know in brawl, having someone under you was the worse spot for Marth to be in, and those full hops seem like a free invitation to get right under him. Either that, or dash into shield and punish accordingly.

 

[Fex13]

Keep in mind that the Marth footage that we have currently is not footage of someone who has perfected Marth in Smash 4. Combos will begin to appear in different matchups once players have tested him thoroughly and gotten more familiar with how he plays.

youre definitely right as soon as i get my hands on the game ill test him alot and try to figure out some good combos i just cant wait anymore...

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Full hop F-Air with a retreating N-Air seems safe. Some nice d-tilt action here too.

 

[Xinc]

Looks like nair and d tilt as well as d throw are staple moves now. Dancing blade looks nerfed, having Melee's timing, but Brawl's not-so-good knockback. But bair is probably going to be one of Marth's staple kill moves.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You messed up Xinc.

When were Nair and D-tilt NOT staple moves in any smash game that Marth appeared in?

I want to mess with DB. It's my only concern thus far. DB in Melee only worked well at higher percents which would hurt its potential as a great punisher at any percent.

 

[Xinc]

You messed up Xinc.

When were Nair and D-tilt NOT staple moves in any smash game that Marth appeared in?

I want to mess with DB. It's my only concern thus far. DB in Melee only worked well at higher percents which would hurt its potential as a great punisher at any percent.

Didn't mean to add a now. But I wanted to emphasize that even though in past games Marth relied on these moves for spacing, he relies on them a lot more now than before.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok, so my thoguhts on the video. Not going to do a match breakdown or anything, though I dont think much has changed for Marth vs Fox compared to Brawl other then Fox can't force approach with lasers now thanks to added recovery time. Probably a bit harder to zone due to changes made to Marths fair though, making the match closer to even and thanks to Foxes great ground speed.

Anyway, I wanted to demonstrate the use of Nair,some good d-tilt action and what Marth shouldn't do. Whenever False played that calm, calculated game he did well. When he over committed he got rocked or lost positioning advantage. Resist the urge to do this. Marth does not "go in", so to speak. That's Fox. Or Metaknight if you want a sword wielder. Marth lives and dies by his ability to put his opponents in bad spots and keep them there. If you can't keep them there, then just let the game go back to neutral. Try not to over commit unless the reward is really there. More often then not just following this little bit of advice will save you from losing a stock.

 

[Oblivion129]

I really enjoyed the video. You can see how, aside from a less safe Fair and increased throw knock-back, he still has great options.
Also, I think he did great in that last KO to demonstrate how we should do offstage play. With the new ledge mechanic it's a lot safer, so we should do it more often.

 

[Primer TMT]

maybe this is a best marth ;D

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

maybe this is a best marth ;D

I doubt he'll be in a similar position as before in Melee, but he'll undoubtedly be a solid character.

This video shows that being careful and precise with Marth really is the key to winning. There's no replacement for that discipline.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Match play of one of the original Marth Kings on the East Coast. Azen Zagenite

THIS man is the EPITOME of Marth's style. Back in Melee he played Marth's actual footsies/poking patient Metagame. He capitalized on mistakes and converted into huge damage combos certainly. But his gameplay was the very quintessence of what it meant to be a Marth player. And when you see this video I think you will agree he still has a master level handle of the dragon slaying monarch.

First post updated

Added bonus - Some great Lucina play from Chillin in here as well. Chillin is the same Lucina that performed that very strong edge guard vs Ganon. I believe its actually in this long video.

 

[Oblivion129]

Match play of one of the original Marth Kings on the East Coast. Azen Zagenite

THIS man is the EPITOME of Marth's style. Back in Melee he played Marth's actual footsies/poking patient Metagame. He capitalized on mistakes and converted into huge damage combos certainly. But his gameplay was the very quintessence of what it meant to be a Marth player. And when you see this video I think you will agree he still has a master level handle of the dragon slaying monarch.

First post updated

Added bonus - Some great Lucina play from Chillin in here as well. Chillin is the same Lucina that performed that very strong edge guard vs Ganon. I believe its actually in this long video.

Great spacing! Marth's range doesn't seem nerfed at all. I think people were worried for no reason. Marth's still got it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Looking at the vid Azen maintained the same optimal spacing you would in this match if you were playing Brawl.

Nerfed range my ass.

 

[XionKai]

Great spacing! Marth's range doesn't seem nerfed at all. I think people were worried for no reason. Marth's still got it.

How much, is Marth's Range, is in Smash 4? o:

 

[Emblem Lord]

Same as Brawl.

 

[thelastreplicant]

After watching this I have no more worries about his range. Doesn't look nerfed at all.

The more I see of Marth the more I'm convinced he's nowhere near as bad as people were claiming.
I can't wait to try him out in Smash 4. Thx for posting the video!

 

[XionKai]

nvm....... o3o

 

[Shaya]

Marth forward air looked really competitive against Dedede's entire moveset/range, which honestly seems slightly cut from Brawl (D3s, not Marths). His loss of sex kick back air will probably make that match up evenish, maybe our favour this game.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It looks dead even from those vids. It gives me hope for Marths other matches.

Truthfully i think a good chunk of his matches will be even. He will not be a free win character and as your fundamentals improve your success with Marth will reflect that.

 

[Satan-]

I would love to share some of my replays. Is it possible to send people replays so they can record/upload them?

 

[CitizenSNIPS]

I would love to share some of my replays. Is it possible to send people replays so they can record/upload them?

I'm thinking if you record your replay with a phone or something it should turn out fine. That's what I'm planning to do anyways.

I've had some matches that I saved with intentions to post them here but when I watch the replay I realize it wasn't as interesting as I thought it was while I was playing them lol. I'll upload some probably tonight and hopefully you guys can give me some advice and also maybe you guys can use what I do.

 

[Satan-]

I'm thinking if you record your replay with a phone or something it should turn out fine. That's what I'm planning to do anyways.

I've had some matches that I saved with intentions to post them here but when I watch the replay I realize it wasn't as interesting as I thought it was while I was playing them lol. I'll upload some probably tonight and hopefully you guys can give me some advice and also maybe you guys can use what I do.

Hmm I'm not sure about the quality but I might do that, not sure.

If yours turns out good, I will probably do it too

 

[CitizenSNIPS]

Here's a few vids of my Marth. For Glory mode.

(Last vid was against the same Robin player and not worth watching except kinda cool combo at around 45 seconds. We ended up playing about 10 matches with about half of the time being Marth v. Robin. Most of our matches were pretty close, this last ghetto ken combo I did was our last match and I think he was either tired of playing against me or just didn't feel like playing anymore.)

Take a look guys and give some advice if you got any. These were from much earlier in the day and recently I've been incorporating more nairs.

 

[ClickDecision]

Emblem Lord would you be interested in doing match analysis at some point? You seem to have good insight into the character.

 

[Xinc]

Emblem Lord would you be interested in doing match analysis at some point? You seem to have good insight into the character.

I concur. Your input is appreciated.

 

[Emblem Lord]

What match? And yeah when i get home from work.

 

[ClickDecision]

What match? And yeah when i get home from work.

I would say whatever match you think exemplifies solid marth play the most (so I guess the Azen one?) Maybe discuss what he did right and why it's right and what he did wrong and what could have been done instead. I think that kind of analysis is the most helpful : )

 

[ShoryuSwordsman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4BS6KmXoIA&t=62s

tippered dancing blade, up version. from 0%, not sure if its a custom or not tho. Also can't tell if mac could've teched before the fsmash, though I imagine an ftilt could've hit easily enough. this seems to me more viable to follow up from than what most players have been using, which is the standard dancing blade. Be nice if someone could test it, since I don't have the game. I'm very hungry for more marth matches if anyone could point me in a direction.

 

[Xisin]

ftilt does connect fairly reliably on that, it tips too makeing it a ton of damage on the get go. I wonder how vectoring comes into play

 

[beatjsr]

http://youtu.be/RHV3iGND7Qs
Hi, emblem lord I've been messing with marth, would you confirm this?

Short hop - input fair immediately after short hop, if done correctly it should end with no lag.

Sorry for my English and if I posted in the wrong thread

 

[Emblem Lord]

Indeed. The animation has enough time to complete and Marth lands normally as if he was just doing an empty jump.

 

[Shaya]

http://www.twitch.tv/hiyashaya/c/5285520

Two friendlies from a few days ago. Really got to get more... potent at just picking the right punishes. I also have been charging dash breaker a little and it's getting me in trouble.

Beyond that though, my ledge trapping/edge guarding is probably worthy of note #_#

 

[MitoRequiem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHS3fq8NZlI

A random "For Glory" match I'd love some advice on how to improve my play, I know I roll a lot but I don't really know what to do sometimes lol also there is a surprise at the end!

 

[Shaya]

Well you know you're rolling a lot, and it doesn't help it's wifi either.
You only throw out commitments and you generally only move by rolls or by jumping from a non-moving spot.

Just start... moving. Marth has the best walking speed in the game. On wifi that's a bit of a godsend, at least. And it's definitely a godsend in normal play too. Start jumping out of dashes to maximise distance covered/least time for reaction from your opponent.

Don't punish rolls by worrying about getting the first one, punish rolls by punishing their action after that roll. I would just keep dashing when I see someone roll expecting a double, an immediate turn around forward tilt if I expect a reverse roll after the first one. Or dash rising fair at where I think they're going to roll from and then aerial mobility weave to a safe spot (or if they continue to roll, just floating towards where I think they'll go while keeping space).

In general asking for people to analyse online play won't be popular. It's not worth wasting the time for it because you really cannot ascertain how to properly improve. While not stated anywhere in here thus far, online matches are going to end up being ignored by the analysts, they just aren't interesting nor worthwhile to comment on. Like I don't get anything out of your match other than neutral airs and dancing blades being used in times where they obviously weren't going to hit anyone, but what can I say to you about improving that other than "stop playing in lag"?

 

[MitoRequiem]

I guess I have a different mindset, I come from SFIV where you can get better at the game even online regardless of lag and what not, Mainly cause you learn what not to do as well as some other key things to the gameplay. I think at least for Smash4 online can teach you a few things, obviously not as good as offline but it still can help you improve a bit. Especially cause this online isn't complete ass(At least for me anyways been having really good connections)

And yeah I throw out too much ****, and roll too much I'm trying to get out of the habit with that I just feel safe when I roll cause usually I am lol. I'm gonna try and implant the whole Dash F-tilt.Dash Shield and Dash Dodge into my brain and also watch some other Marth videos. I'm one of those people who gets better off of seeing other people play and also people telling me what I do wrong.

EDIT: I also did learn a lot of off looking at your twitch vod though so thanks for posting that