Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[LIQUID12A]

Honestly, what I'm about to say is a hilariously arbitrary thing(before you chew me out based on that alone)...but Snake coming back would bring a sort of balance to the third parties.



:4snake:

You have half of the guests as family friendly icons, the other half appealing to a more mature audience. Cartoony and realistic. Non-human and human. Of course, to say Snake is the only one that could be added to even it out is silly. The aim is to make Smash diverse, and with the two DLC newcomers added as of now, it stands to reason that attracting all types of gamers is a priority.

Just my two cents.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, I guess we can finally bury Isaac... because with another anime-esque sword wielding character, his chances have gone down drastically. But I guesss we can pretend Cloud is Isaac and the new stage is Venus Lighthouse, right?

Cloud means nothing to Isaac. Stop acting like it's one or the other, Sakurai isn't against adding character that look similair to other characters and they fight differently. I'm so sick of this ****, if Isaac doesn't get in, I can guarentee it has zero to do with CLoud

 

[A Distant Demon]

I hate seeing all these "Cloud is an X clone" posts

Fair is kind of similar to ike's but clearly functions differently (some kind of spike. Hell of a lot faster)

Back throw and nair are the only moves that seem similar to other characters. Not only is that not saying much, but we don't even know for sure how they work.

Just because someone has a sword doesn't mean they are a clone. Jeez.



Also Linkle for Smash. We may not be able to get a bow user but at least we could get an awesome crossbow wielder. (haha it's impossible)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I hate seeing all these "Cloud is an X clone" posts

Fair is kind of similar to ike's but clearly functions differently (some kind of spike. Hell of a lot faster)

Back throw and nair are the only moves that seem similar to other characters. Not only is that not saying much, but we don't even know for sure how they work.

Just because someone has a sword doesn't mean they are a clone. Jeez.



Also Linkle for Smash. We may not be able to get a bow user but at least we could get an awesome crossbow wielder. (haha it's impossible)

I wasn't trying to imply Cloud is a clone, just noted he had a few similair moves

Linkle would be ****ing hype, especially as I want an actual archer

 

[ErenJager]

My dilemma with the curve ball characters is that, well I didn't particularly want them, because I didn't consider them likely.
On the other hand i'm glad i'm surprised.
However i'm still a little griped about characters I wanted, over the curve balls I could have cared less about.

Ryu & Cloud are great, but I wouldn't of petitioned for them/ supported them like KKR, Ridley, Geno, Bomberman.

 

[Burruni]

I'm just gonna say it.

Instead of Ike, to show off the Omnislash Final Smash... it should'v been shirtless Shulk.

Edit: Skip to 1:00

 

[Ura]

Here's hoping that this song makes it in the game. Would be a dream come true to hear this song play in Smash Bros.

Maybe we'll get to see Tidus and Squall Mii costumes? I'd like Tidus more so due to my first FF game being 10 and that Tidus looks like Shulk which would make for a funny comparison.

I'm just gonna say it.

Instead of Ike, to show off the Omnislash Final Smash... it should'v been shirtless Shulk.

Edit: Skip to 1:00

I'm almost certain that we'll be seeing a Sephiroth trophy in the game. Tifa and Aerith are also likely as well. Not getting my hopes up for an FF AT due to SF not having an AT.

 

[Talpr1]

Honestly, what I'm about to say is a hilariously arbitrary thing(before you chew me out based on that alone)...but Snake coming back would bring a sort of balance to the third parties.



:4snake:

You have half of the guests as family friendly icons, the other half appealing to a more mature audience. Cartoony and realistic. Non-human and human. Of course, to say Snake is the only one that could be added to even it out is silly. The aim is to make Smash diverse, and with the two DLC newcomers added as of now, it stands to reason that attracting all types of gamers is a priority.

Just my two cents.

Two veterans and four newcomers too!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's hoping that this song makes it in the game. Would be a dream come true to hear this song play in Smash Bros.

Maybe we'll get to see Tidus and Squall Mii costumes? I'd like Tidus more so due to my first FF game being 10 and that Tidus looks like Shulk which would make for a funny comparison.

I'm almost certain that we'll be seeing a Sephiroth trophy in the game. Tifa and Aerith are also likely as well. Not getting my hopes up for an FF AT due to SF not having an AT.

No. Tidus is a crybaby, get that **** out of my Smash

I think we got a single song in the trailer. A Medley, so my hope is that FFV and FFVI get songs too. One Winged Angel is a given, though I want nothing more than Big Bridge, Decisive Battle and the finale of Dancing Mad

 

[Ura]

No. Tidus is a crybaby, get that **** out of my Smash

I think we got a single song in the trailer. A Medley, so my hope is that FFV and FFVI get songs too. One Winged Angel is a given, though I want nothing more than Big Bridge, Decisive Battle and the finale of Dancing Mad

He's actually my favorite FF protagonist TBH. His development in his game is one of the best in the series IMO. The guy is told up front that he's a dream and he still has to go through with his adventure. Anyways, it's not going to be all that bad if he's a Mii Costume. Shulk and Tidus look alike so it'll be funny to see them both in the game.

I want to see FF themes from all across the board. Given that there was only 6 themes in SC, my guess is that we'll probably have the same amount of themes for the Midgar stage. I would want.

FF7: Those Who Fight (Confirmed)
FF7: Those Who Fight Further (Confirmed)
FF7: One Winged Angel (Most likely will be in the game)
FF6: Decisive Battle
FF8: Force Your Way
FF10: Otherworld

 

[Vexx_]

About the clone character thing, I don't think that clone characters are bad. Look at this picture that i took from Source Gaming:

Ryu share a lot of sprites with Shulk and they are completely diferent in gameplay, style and everything else. Clone does not means to be the same, but To reduce development time it's easier to get a character that already exist and make a new one based on the first.

I had this feeling that Cloud was too similar with shulk and Ike too, but it's too early for the "It's just a clone" argument. He could be a completely new character with a lot of new mechanics just like Ryu is.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

About the clone character thing, I don't think that clone characters are bad. Look at this picture that i took from Source Gaming:

Ryu share a lot of sprites with Shulk and they are completely diferent in gameplay, style and everything else. Clone does not means to be the same, but To reduce development time it's easier to get a character that already exist and make a new one based on the first.

I had this feeling that Cloud was too similar with shulk and Ike too, but it's to early for the "It's just a clone" argument. He could be a completely new character with a lot of new mechanics just like Ryu is.

Cloud has enough moves that we've seen that prove he's very unique. Also, his Up-B went downwards in the trailer...Does this mean the Limit Break version could be CLoud-cide?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Is Limit Break a Final Fantasy 7-exclusive attack?
If so, it's sad to see that Cloud might only "rep" his own instead of being Final Fantasy the character.

Another topic, I actually support Sora for Smash 5 now.
I mean that would essentially mean Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Mario and Luigi in the same game if the former two are trophies.

**** Nintendo X Namco X SEGA X Capcom X Square X Disney is the ultimate game IMO.
**** Nintendo X Disney is pure gold already

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Is Limit Break a Final Fantasy 7-exclusive attack?
If so, it's sad to see that Cloud might only "rep" his own instead of being Final Fantasy the character.

Not exclusive to FF7. Also in Kamen Rider

 

[Vexx_]

Cloud has enough moves that we've seen that prove he's very unique. Also, his Up-B went downwards in the trailer...Does this mean the Limit Break version could be CLoud-cide?

Actualy, I Don't Know. IMO the "Cloud-cide" only works when you are at the stage and pressing B after the first attack (like Shulk Up B). At the trailer Cloud can jump much higher with his Limit Up B to grab the ledge. Look at 1:50 at this video.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actualy, I Don't Know. IMO the "Cloud-cide" only works when you are at the stage and pressing B after the first attack (like Shulk Up B). At the trailer Cloud can jump much higher with his Limit Up B to grab the ledge. Look at 1:50 at this video.

You kinda misunderstood me
Cloud has Limit Break Up-B that sends him and his foe diagonal. Pressing B again sends him and his foe down
Hence Cloud-cide

 

[Ura]

Do you guys think the Midgar stage will only have FF7 themes or do you think it will have themes from other FF games?

Do you think any FF trophies will follow suit as well?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Do you guys think the Midgar stage will only have FF7 themes or do you think it will have themes from other FF games?

Do you think any FF trophies will follow suit as well?

Probably just FFVII but V and VI should certainly be considered

Yep

 

[dezeray112]

Do you guys think the Midgar stage will only have FF7 themes or do you think it will have themes from other FF games?

Do you think any FF trophies will follow suit as well?

I could see some FF7 themes in there definitely. Not sure if they will put in additional themes from other FF Games but it is still possible.

Trophies wise, I see the likes of Sephiroth being a trophy.

 

[Ura]

Would be a shame personally because I really want an FFX theme on that stage. Rocking out to Otherworld in Smash Bros is something I dreamed about as a kid.

For SF, only Ken was introduced as an additional trophy for the series other than Ryu so my guess is that Sephiroth will be the only FF related trophy other than Cloud himself. Would be nice to have others though.

 

[NintenZ]

Lightning for Smash!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Lightning for Smash!

Sakurai actually likes her iirc. Everyone outside Japan doesn't though

 

[Burruni]

Is Limit Break a Final Fantasy 7-exclusive attack?
If so, it's sad to see that Cloud might only "rep" his own instead of being Final Fantasy the character.

Another topic, I actually support Sora for Smash 5 now.
I mean that would essentially mean Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Mario and Luigi in the same game if the former two are trophies.

**** Nintendo X Namco X SEGA X Capcom X Square X Disney is the ultimate game IMO.
**** Nintendo X Disney is pure gold already

TECHNICALLY, the Limit Break system was first implemented as "Desperation Attacks" in Final Fantasy 6.

This mechanic was dubbed Limit Breaks in FF7, 8, 9 under the name trance, 10 by the name Overdrive, 12 as Quickenings, and 13 as Full ATB Skills.

The way that it's used here is a bar that's charged, presumably, by taking damage and manually charged by Cloud's Down B which then gives him a secondary set of specials... his other 3 having greater effect and some invulnerability like Ryu's true input specials, and then Down B seems to then transform into Finishing Touch. The question is if this bar depletes slowly for you to use the effects to the fullest in that duration like Deep Breathing or if the meter's dropped after one attack like the KO meter.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

TECHNICALLY, the Limit Break system was first implemented as "Desperation Attacks" in Final Fantasy 6.

This mechanic was dubbed Limit Breaks in FF7, 8, 9 under the name trance, 10 by the name Overdrive, 12 as Quickenings, and 13 as Full ATB Skills.

The way that it's used here is a bar that's charged, presumably, by taking damage and manually charged by Cloud's Down B which then gives him a secondary set of specials... his other 3 having greater effect and some invulnerability like Ryu's true input specials, and then Down B seems to then transform into Finishing Touch. The question is if this bar depletes slowly for you to use the effects to the fullest in that duration like Deep Breathing or if the meter's dropped after one attack like the KO meter.

Considering Deep Breathing doesn't need any charge time but rather recool I presume it's more like the KO meter, you even see a meter in the trailer!

 

[Burruni]

Considering Deep Breathing doesn't need any charge time but rather recool I presume it's more like the KO meter, you even see a meter in the trailer!

My point was that it gave a visible aura, and is "readied' by a down-b, special.
And TECHNICALLY, the charge time for Deep Breathing is in the active usage of it.
But yes, there's certainly a meter for his limit break being charged (as there was in FF7 and 9).
Just... speculating if it's a "super mode for a duration," or "get one super move."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My point was that it gave a visible aura, and is "readied' by a down-b, special.
And TECHNICALLY, the charge time for Deep Breathing is in the active usage of it.
But yes, there's certainly a meter for his limit break being charged (as there was in FF7 and 9).
Just... speculating if it's a "super mode for a duration," or "get one super move."

Doesn't he lose the aura when grabbing the ledge with Limit Up-B?

 

[Ura]

Blitzball for Smash.

 

[Burruni]

Doesn't he lose the aura when grabbing the ledge with Limit Up-B?

Yes.
But it the camera angles don't really show if it does using Blade Beam +, Cross Edge +, or Finishing Touch.
THAT is where the question arises if it was just coincidental timing.

Fun Fact: I didn't recognize Finishing Touch until I found it out in the moveset thread because I never saw the move used in game. By the time I had Meteorrain used 6 times, I already had the Omnislash Manual.

Edit: For all we know, Limit Beak special moves chunk away a percentage of your limit gauge while it passively drains.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yes.
But it the camera angles don't really show if it does using Blade Beam +, Cross Edge +, or Finishing Touch.
THAT is where the question arises if it was just coincidental timing.

Fun Fact: I didn't recognize Finishing Touch until I found it out in the moveset thread because I never saw the move used in game. By the time I had Meteorrain used 6 times, I already had the Omnislash Manual.

Edit: For all we know, special moves chunk away a percentage of your limit gauge while it passively drains.

brb gonna check the trailer again
It dissappears after Cross Edge for a frame, One Hit Wonder confirmed

 

[Burruni]

brb gonna check the trailer again
It dissappears after Cross Edge for a frame, One Hit Wonder confirmed

It does the same after Blade Beam + and Finishing Touch. Okay. I just couldn't remember because I was too busy watching the ATTACK and not Cloud for if he had the aura.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Every time Cloud uses a move In lmit he immediately loses the aura. Either
A. it's a coincedence
B. Using limit heavily buffs your next attack/special

 

[Johnknight1]

Anyone thinking Cloud is a ballot character has no basic understanding of character development in fighting games. The ballot just ended last month. Ballot characters being developed probably haven't even finished pre-production.

Fighting game characters need 4-8 months of development minimum based on what open developers of 2D fighting game IP's like Mortal Kombat, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, Street Fighter, King of Fighters, etc have said, and that is assuming the staff can handle them. That is not counting all the work that went into that stage, or the fact other DLC such as outfits, additional stages, other characters, or even that patching is going on.

Seriously, if you think they finished that stage in a month, you are not living in the real world.

Cloud has been a "pipe dream" character since the dawn of forever for Smash. People have wanted Link vs. Cloud before Smash ever had its' first title released. It's like... up there with Sonic vs. Mario. Heck, the Square Enix and Nintendo contract negotiations took longer than a month. Second party contract negations take longer than a month.

If anything, Cloud was planned for a long time; probably over a year. He could have been an "on and off" project for years even, especially considering Smash 4 had a pre-production of over a year (most AA games have a 3 months period of pre-production).

Cloud might have been put on the back burner as DLC, much like what I theorized happen with Ryu. Given the immense detail both characters and their stages have, I don't really see much of an argument for the opposing side.

So I'm curious for your opinion on chances of Wolf getting in, and the appeal thereof.

I'd think with the upcoming SF game (give or take if you like what you've seen so far), Nintendo would release Wolf as a way to promote the games release. SF Zero is coming out this holiday season, the last direct concerning Smash is coming out in December, put the two and two together and you get the likelihood of Wolf. The timing couldn't be better.

Let me put it to you this way: I just updated my Smash roster maker, and added Cloud and Wolf as "confirmed" characters.

That's how sure I am that Wolf is gonna be announced in December (and if not then very soon). Like you said, "the timing couldn't be better."

Really, Wolf was pretty much confirmed after Lucas was confirmed; Roy further sealed this deal (oh God the accidental puns).

 

[Runic_SSB]

It's definitely possible that he was winning by such a huge margin that they started development before the ballot ended. Remember, the ballot started in early April, and the vast majority of votes probably came in during the initial hype period, so they almost definitely knew who was going to win early on. They easily could've started in late May/early June and had a presentable build by mid November.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's definitely possible that he was winning by such a huge margin that they started development before the ballot ended. Remember, the ballot started in early April, and the vast majority of votes probably came in during the initial hype period, so they almost definitely knew who was going to win early on. They easily could've started in late May/early June and had a presentable build by mid November.

lol no Cloud's support was very minor everywhere, not to mention adding a character who was popular in the beginning of a poll doesn't mean the character will be popular in the endresults

 

[Johnknight1]

By the way, I hope people will stop asking for curveball characters just for the hell of it. If Ryu wasn't enough, now we got Cloud too. I mean, I like Ryu, and I'll probably get used to Cloud in a few weeks, but now I'd rather see newcomers people actually asked for.

ummm... people have asked for Cloud since Smash 64 came out. Same with Ryu. Besides... it's not like totally stole all 3 of his special moves from .

Nope, no way that happened.

The reason Cloud got in over the Black Mage is simple. The Smash 4 developers don't want these rare 3rd party characters to be unspecific avatar characters or other sorts of characters people are unfamiliar with; they want them to be specific characters who are GAMING LEGENDS who gamers and many non-gamers are already familiar with.

Cloud was the hottest 3rd party character of the 5th generation of gaming the same way Ryu and Snake were to the 4th and 6th generations of gaming. Besides, people have begged for Link vs. Cloud since Final Fantasy VII dropped almost 2 decades ago. It's pretty simple to understand really.

If people thought Cloud had this good of a shot of being playable in Brawl and he wasn't viewed as "a pipe dream," Cloud would have had the second biggest fanbase campaign machine for Brawl behind only Sonic. That's how many people realllly like Cloud. People just gave up on him over the years because they saw him as impossible, that's all.

Really, Sakurai isn't just limiting the Smash roster to characters people actively are campaigning for, but to characters we (the masses) actually want.

 

[Halifax?]

 

[Johnknight1]

It's definitely possible that he was winning by such a huge margin that they started development before the ballot ended. Remember, the ballot started in early April, and the vast majority of votes probably came in during the initial hype period, so they almost definitely knew who was going to win early on. They easily could've started in late May/early June and had a presentable build by mid November.

So you're saying a stage that detailed, a moveset that detailed, a model that detailed, and all that cameo appearances of summons that detailed could be scrounged up in 7 months with 2 other DLC characters and stages?

And that during that time Square Enix and Nintendo negotiated for it and agreed upon Cloud, and Cloud entered a 1 to 2 month period of pre-production before a 4-8 months period of production?

Bruh...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So you're saying a stage that detailed, a moveset that detailed, a model that detailed, and all that cameo appearances of summons that detailed could be scrounged up in 7 months with 2 other DLC characters and stages?

And that during that time Square Enix and Nintendo negotiated for it and agreed upon Cloud, and Cloud entered a 1 to 2 month period of pre-production before a 4-8 months period of production?

Bruh...

Considering FFXIV took about a decade I call bull**** on a mere 7 months

 

[Deleted member]

One way or the other Cloud's a great chance.

 

[Johnknight1]

Considering FFXIV took about a decade I call bull**** on a mere 7 months

Pretty much. I got a feeling all 5 DLC characters confirmed thus far and the 2 that will get released alongside Cloud were planned years ago. The developers certainly have given those characters more added care than the non-DLC newcomers when they were initially released (although they've since improved since patching, and Mewtwo is kind of an exception since he's basically just a slightly modified port from Melee).

One Winged Angel has to be on Midgar.

Spoiler alert: It will be. Like Ryu's theme or Ken's theme on the Suzaku Castle stage, we will probably 2 (maybe 3) versions of it actually; the original FFVII version and the Advent Children remix and/or a Smash original remix.

Hopefully we get several FFVII songs, as well as a "Greatest hits" music collection from Final Fantasy history. Tera's theme, the bridge theme from IV (or was it V? I think they both had a bridge battle theme), and so on are musts. Added Dragon Quest greatest hits wouldn't hurt either.