Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[memoryman3]

Also, this extract from Nintendo UK's direct brief confirmed that December will reveal the last DLC characters...

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/201...details-for-Christmas-and-beyond-1068261.html

Expect the unexpected people (I still think Cloud is a ballot character...)

 

[SonicMario]

If Cloud is a ballot character, then that just means people who said the poll was more suggestion rather then Popularity. It's probably going to be debated whether or not he is a ballot character until we get some things clarified.

On one hand, Cloud seems like one of those characters who could only get in through the Ballot just because of how seemingly unlikely he was before all this. It's possible Sakurai saw votes for Cloud regardless if he was even one of the more poplar requests or not. He saw potential and went though the difficulty of negotiating with Square Enix (Hence his Tweet) to make it happen

But on the other, they would of had picked Cloud quite early if he was ready enough to have a trailer for him. There is no way they had Cloud looking this good if they started development on him after the Ballot closed cause it's only been slightly more then a month. (Though there's the possibility Sakurai decided to pick one earlier while the Ballot was still open)

 

[NintenZ]

I'm upset about Cloud because his moveset seems very similar to a combination of and / for his core moves (judging from watching the trailer through 3 times) and add 's down tilt. For his specials? Presumably down b is Limit Break, Neutral B is Blade beam which some people asked for with anyways, side B is Cross Edge which... I still don't get how it works, and then Up B is Climmhazard which seems most comparable with 's, honestly and he doesn't seem to have something huge that he adds.

I'm upset that for Final Fantasy, instead of getting someone associated with the Nintendo age, we got the poster boy for the Sony era of the series. I'm upset that for a series which has a huge pool of magical possibilities to add to a roster who's "mages" consist of and Pokemon, we got a somewhat typical but standard Swordmaster and his stage shows off more of what I love about the series than the character.

I'm upset that the last non-indie 3rd Party character I truly wanted to ever see in Smash, one of my top 5 most wanted to see period, is now punted into tier of likelihood of Master Chief and at best maybe by Smash 6 we'll be allowed multiple characters from the same third party franchise and maybe Black Mage can see the light of day.

And, honestly, I'm upset that I was right that the matters to construct a 3rd Party character would throw a massive wrench into development time for a team that we've been told repeatedly is not long for standing at this point and once was still done..... for him. That this is what they have to show for this drought of information we've waited through. Like with , I was right on the reasoning about what they'd need for development but not that they would appear anyways, being incredibly hyping for most but a character I truly found myself unable to be hyped for. Except, with Mewtwo, he was at least a veteran.

Edit: Am I being childish? Damn well likely, but I feel like I have some good reasons to be.

Huh, this seems interesting...

 

[Talpr1]

I actually think that Nintendo and Square Enix are trying to build a much closer relationship, and putting one of their most famous characters in Smash Bros is a way to state that. Remember that the direct focused fairly heavily on SE titles, such as Bravely Second and Dragon Quest, and iirc, SE already has dev tools for NX, could be wrong on this though.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

I do not believe Cloud is a ballot character, Cloud and whoever is after him are Pre-Ballot, there's been tow character slots since Ryu came in

 

[Burruni]

Another song that really should get in on the Midgar stage. Just to say.

 

[NintenZ]

Why don't we look at this list and see what are thoughts are on it?

Let's eliminate some characters using process of elimination, and come down to what we think are the most probable outcomes. I'll start,

Eliminated: Roy, Cloud

 

[Muster]

(I still think Cloud is a ballot character...)

Makes sense, the small polls people keep conducting aren't likely to be indicative of the majority of the voter base.

 

[NintenZ]

Eliminated characters: Arle, Bayonneta

 

[Burruni]

Cloud isn't a ballot character and here's why:

The contractual back and forth to get the rights to Cloud and the CLEAR heavy amount of work for his model, specials, and that clusterfudge of a stage clearly predates MONTHS of work and there's no way Cloud was that high up to be plucked prematurely to represent the "votes" of the Smash ballot.

 

[Kalimdori]

Also, this extract from Nintendo UK's direct brief confirmed that December will reveal the last DLC characters...

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/201...details-for-Christmas-and-beyond-1068261.html

Expect the unexpected people (I still think Cloud is a ballot character...)

That extract says that it will be the last special broadcast about Super Smash Brothers, not that it will reveal the last of the DLC.

It could reveal the last of the DLC, but that's not what it confirms.

 

[NintenZ]

Cloud isn't a ballot character and here's why:

The contractual back and forth to get the rights to Cloud and the CLEAR heavy amount of work for his model, specials, and that clusterfudge of a stage clearly predates MONTHS of work and there's no way Cloud was that high up to be plucked prematurely to represent the "votes" of the Smash ballot.

But the question is, why Cloud?

 

[Talpr1]

Why don't we look at this list and see what are thoughts are on it?

Already discussed that. Assuming that the poll is a somewhat accurate reflection of the actual ballot, Cloud seems to place way too low to be Sakurai's first choice.

 

[NintenZ]

So that whole thing about Sakurai saying that he'd only do difficult requests from now on was a mistranslation, he was referring to Cloud.
https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/664987510955638784

 

[Burruni]

But the question is, why Cloud?

Because Final Fantasy.

We're talking about the series that crafted the JRPG genre into what it is today and is basically another Street Fighter situation on having very strong Nintendo ties in the earlier console generations but around the advent of disc drives the third party company switched hands to work with Sony but made sure to priortize Nintendo for their spin-offs. The fact that got in before a FF character is because of friendship of makers. and arguably because they're (read: Capcom) far more loose with their character rights when Square-Enix has been historically very tight on their leash. Final Fantasy is one of those series that damn well should be in Smash in some capacity.

Why Cloud over other characters from the Nintendian games (read: better choices)? It's bitter and simple. For how overhyped it is, FF7 is still the most well received game of the series and one of the most praised games of all time. A product of the time that got the massive swell it did because it did things thought incapable for the era by stretching it out across three discs, but there's a reason it's the FF game to get the most supplimental work, why Cloud was given the most work in Kingdom Hearts, why people say Sony won E3 off the raw hype of FF7's remake. Cloud marks the start of the Sony era for mainline of FF7, and many argue the peak for the series, but he's the "household name," the "most recognizable character," etc.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Also, this extract from Nintendo UK's direct brief confirmed that December will reveal the last DLC characters...

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/201...details-for-Christmas-and-beyond-1068261.html

Expect the unexpected people (I still think Cloud is a ballot character...)

Additionally, a special broadcast – the last one for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and Nintendo 3DS – will be released in December.

What this means, if anything, is that it will likely be the last Smash-centric broadcast. In no way does this actually represent what you said. Either way it's still too early to judge, let's just allow it to play out instead of jumping to conclusions.

 

[NintenZ]

Because Final Fantasy.

We're talking about the series that crafted the JRPG genre into what it is today and is basically another Street Fighter situation on having very strong Nintendo ties in the earlier console generations but around the advent of disc drives the third party company switched hands to work with Sony but made sure to priortize Nintendo for their spin-offs.

Why Cloud over other characters from the Nintendian games (read: better choices)? It's bitter and simple. For how overhyped it is, FF7 is still the most well received game of the series and one of the most praised games of all time. A product of the time that got the massive swell it did because it did things thought incapable for the era by stretching it out across three discs, but there's a reason it's the FF game to get the most supplimental work, why Cloud was given the most work in Kingdom Hearts, why people say Sony won E3 off the raw hype of FF7's remake. Cloud marks the start of the Sony era for mainline of FF7, and many argue the peak for the series, but he's the "household name," the "most recognizable character," etc.

Huh, that does make sense, he's an industry icon.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Cloud is a gaming legend. The only thing about him that hurts, is that, finally and only now, does Snake seem like a gaping wound in the roster.

I'm upset about Cloud because his moveset seems very similar to a combination of and / for his core moves (judging from watching the trailer through 3 times) and add 's down tilt. For his specials? Presumably down b is Limit Break, Neutral B is Blade beam which some people asked for with anyways, side B is Cross Edge which... I still don't get how it works, and then Up B is Climmhazard which seems most comparable with 's, honestly and he doesn't seem to have something huge that he adds.

I'm upset that for Final Fantasy, instead of getting someone associated with the Nintendo age, we got the poster boy for the Sony era of the series. I'm upset that for a series which has a huge pool of magical possibilities to add to a roster who's "mages" consist of and Pokemon, we got a somewhat typical but standard Swordmaster and his stage shows off more of what I love about the series than the character.

I'm upset that the last non-indie 3rd Party character I truly wanted to ever see in Smash, one of my top 5 most wanted to see period, is now punted into tier of likelihood of Master Chief and at best maybe by Smash 6 we'll be allowed multiple characters from the same third party franchise and maybe Black Mage can see the light of day.

And, honestly, I'm upset that I was right that the matters to construct a 3rd Party character would throw a massive wrench into development time for a team that we've been told repeatedly is not long for standing at this point and once was still done..... for him. That this is what they have to show for this drought of information we've waited through. Like with , I was right on the reasoning about what they'd need for development but not that they would appear anyways, being incredibly hyping for most but a character I truly found myself unable to be hyped for. Except, with Mewtwo, he was at least a veteran.

Edit: Am I being childish? Damn well likely, but I feel like I have some good reasons to be.

...to be fair, youre not playing, youre merely observing. That can lead to some pretty faulty conclusions.
Additionally, Black Mage is, at best, a neutral and ambiguous character that seems to have no personal specificity. The best equivalent is Toad, whom still is absent as well.
Foregoing this, a character who simply best represents the company, for the flagship character OF the series and the company, is a fantastic move, to me.

For the record, of course Japanese opinion matters more- did anyone truly think it was for once, NOT going to be the top priority?
@PushDustIn Was this unexpected for you, to see Cloud?

 

[NintenZ]

Cloud is a gaming legend. The only thing about him that hurts, is that, finally and only now, does Snake seem like a gaping wound in the roster.


...to be fair, youre not playing, youre merely observing. That can lead to some pretty faulty conclusions.
Additionally, Black Mage is, at best, a neutral and ambiguous character that seems to have no personal specificity. The best equivalent is Toad, whom still is absent as well.
Foregoing this, a character who simply best represents the company, for the flagship character OF the series and the company, is a fantastic move, to me.

For the record, of course Japanese opinion matters more- did anyone truly think it was for once, NOT going to be the top priority?
@PushDustIn Was this unexpected for you, to see Cloud?

Actually, the mascot of Squaresoft is the Chocabo.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Actually, the mascot of Squaresoft is the Chocabo.

Was not using the term literally, but thanks.

 

[s1universe]

(Trying not to get really angry here.) X series Zero is infinitely more deserving than thatthingIrefusetocallZero from the Zero series. He's appeared in more games (even on Nintendo consoles, before you try to use THAT argument), he's more iconic/well known, he has more moveset potential/potential for a unique moveset, he is the one that is in Project X Zone 1 & 2, he is the one who has a trophy in Smash, HE IS THE REAL ZERO.
I will NEVER understand people who like thatthingthatruinedZero from the Zero series more than the REAL Zero from the X series. It's the equivalent of saying "I like Sonic Boom Knuckles more than the original Knuckles." or "I like Skylanders Spyro more than the original Spyro." or heck, even "I like the Captain N version of Mega Man more than the original Mega Man." I don't care, you people are wrong.

Well then explain X zeros move set

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Actually, the mascot of Squaresoft is the Chocabo.

Well... he kinda looks like one

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Barring contractual issues, at this point I think it's a mistake to keep Snake out. Adding Snake and Wolf would round out the veterans aside from the Pokemon vets and the Icies (which is fairly understandable) and would add to the all-star cast. That much is undeniable.

One thing to note as well is the fact that we have 2 character slots in the data, along with one stage. There were 3 and 2 respectively prior to Cloud.

Something tells me that one of the remaining characters is getting a stage. The character getting a stage COULD be from a veteran series, but no veteran as DLC has gotten a stage so I doubt Wolf is getting a stage. K.Rool, despite being a newcomer, might not get a stage because he's from a veteran series. To me, that leaves either Snake returning with Shadow Moses Island, or a character like the Inklings coming with a stage of their own.

 

[Deleted member]

One Winged Angel has to be on Midgar.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know, looking at Cloud, he's using Ike's animations...Nair, Fair and Bair are the same along with Bthrow, and Uair has Ike's Utilt, not to mention Omnislash being Great Aether

 

[Ura]

The info on the site is a bit confusing though hopefully it'll get cleared up.

I know almost for sure that we're going to at least get another 2 characters along with Cloud in December so that would still be a lot of DLC characters. The only hope for additional ballot characters is if there's Mewtwo-esque reveals for whoever was chosen from the ballot.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I noticed a glitch on Cloud's video. There was no Big Bridge

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm not even a fan of Snake but I do agree that Snake not making it back at this point would be hilariously cruel. Cloud literally has nothing but cameos on Nintendo platforms while Snake at least had some NES games, a GBC game, and a couple of remakes.

 

[Burruni]

I noticed a glitch on Cloud's video. There was no Big Bridge

THE FACT THAT WE WON'T BE GETTING A GILGAMESH ASSIST TROPHY IS ONE OF THE MANY THINGS THAT ARE UPSETTING TO ME.

 

[Talpr1]

By the way, I hope people will stop asking for curveball characters just for the hell of it. If Ryu wasn't enough, now we got Cloud too. I mean, I like Ryu, and I'll probably get used to Cloud in a few weeks, but now I'd rather see newcomers people actually asked for.

 

[Zzuxon]

I feel I should throw my towel in.
I agree with Burruni that Black Mage would have been a better choice than Cloud.
I disagree with Burruni that that makes Cloud a bad choice.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Also, people need to realize that they're setting up the stage for someone more WTF than Cloud for the Smash Direct. I can practically guarantee that the format will once again be two characters at the beginning (Cloud and probably a veteran) and then a reveal at the end that will make everyone go cross eyed. People used to say that Cloud was impossible but they have someone in the wings that will probably be even more unbelievable. So who's that megaton going to be? I think a certain bird and bear pair would probably crash the internet if people were already foaming at the mouth about Ryu and Cloud.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Even if you didn't want him, one can't deny the star power Cloud has. He's easily one of the most iconic characters of gaming. Him getting into Smash isn't a question of star power as much as it is the previous thoughts of impossibility.

If Cloud and Ryu joining Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man doesn't convince people that 3rd parties have to be a big deal to be in Smash then I'm not sure what will convince them at this point.

 

[Vexx_]

What I liked most about these DLCs it's how almost anybody expected these characters. If someone said that Cloud could be in Smash one month ago we would laugh at him, but there he is. The All Time Final Fantasy Favorite Hero is going to be a fighter in our beloved Super Smash Bros.

Nintendo is doing a great job with the Smash DLCs. The Roy and Ryu hype was small only because it was leaked. Roy was kind of obvious choice, but Ryu? I Would never expected him as a DLC before the ballot.

I'm very hyped about the next Smash Direct and the new DLCs fighters. I would love to see Wolf back again but, til now, I've lost all my bets at the ballot. Even Snake that I thought it was certainly out of the question I think It's possible now.

 

[Zzuxon]

Also, people need to realize that they're setting up the stage for someone more WTF than Cloud for the Smash Direct. I can practically guarantee that the format will once again be two characters at the beginning (Cloud and probably a veteran) and then a reveal at the end that will make everyone go cross eyed. People used to say that Cloud was impossible but they have someone in the wings that will probably be even more unbelievable. So who's that megaton going to be? I think a certain bird and bear pair would probably crash the internet if people were already foaming at the mouth about Ryu and Cloud.

Wolf, K. Rool and Banjo and Kazooie would generate a hype supernova.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Even if you didn't want him, one can't deny the star power Cloud has. He's easily one of the most iconic characters of gaming. Him getting into Smash isn't a question of star power as much as it is the previous thoughts of impossibility.

If Cloud and Ryu joining Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man doesn't convince people that 3rd parties have to be a big deal to be in Smash then I'm not sure what will convince them at this point.

I think Sakurai is just now realizing the power of Super Smash Bros and he's trying to use that power to make it the ultimate gaming showcase rather than the ultimate Nintendo showcase. At first the idea sounds crappy because we all love Nintendo, but the more you think about it, this game just keeps getting more and more impressive. It's set itslf apart from literally any other video game in terms of star power. It's brought characters together that people couldn't have dreamed of.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Wolf, K. Rool and Banjo and Kazooie would generate a hype supernova.

I dont think Wolf generates hype.
It's more like a WASP having coffe and reading the newspaper headline, "kidnapped child found."

In other words, 'Oh... that's nice.'

Wolf may be 'wanted' by a group that would rarely have considered him had he never been in the game (which is a sad way to equate a character as warranted... or rather, any character other than a Pokemon), but a sheer orgasm of excitement would never be generated by Wolf.

...yes, I want him to return.

The info on the site is a bit confusing though hopefully it'll get cleared up.

I know almost for sure that we're going to at least get another 2 characters along with Cloud in December so that would still be a lot of DLC characters. The only hope for additional ballot characters is if there's Mewtwo-esque reveals for whoever was chosen from the ballot.

Sakurai has worked on this game for an added 14 months at this point.
Seven characters is really a small amount- lets not continue to state it is a lot of characters- it is an extemely small amount of content considering it has been 33% of the initial games' development time.

 

[Megadoomer]

How does everyone think the Smash direct is going to go? I'll put my speculation/wishful thinking in spoilers, just in case I go overboard.

Spoiler

I figure we'll start off with an overall trailer of the game, before Sakurai introduces himself and goes into more detail on Cloud. He'd explain Cloud's specials, how Limit Break works, and Cloud's final smash and stage. This wouldn't take as long as Ryu's introduction, as he isn't as complicated. (they wouldn't need to explain directional inputs and what have you) Once this explanation is finished, they say that Cloud will be available after this presentation.

---

Scattered throughout the direct will be trailers for one or two veterans - Wolf is almost definite, and maybe Snake if we get a second one. I figure they're easier to remake than making a brand new character, and both Wolf and Snake are incredibly popular ballot choices worldwide and don't have to deal with the hardware issues that the Ice Climbers have. Plus, they got Square-Enix, a company that had no prior involvement in Smash Bros., to include a character whose game has never been on a Nintendo console, so it seems like bringing back Snake would be much easier by comparison.

The veterans don't need much explanation in the Direct - aside from balancing changes, they'd be pretty much identical to Brawl. Snake would come with Shadow Moses; don't know if Wolf would need to come with a stage, but maybe they could bring Corneria to the Wii U and Lylat Cruise to the 3DS.

---

I can't really see any new modes being added, but we might get a new stage or two that aren't affiliated with a character. No idea what they could be, but it could be something to break up the time between character releases. Mii costumes are almost guaranteed; I don't know if they would go with characters from the ballot who didn't make it (I could see why and why not - on one hand, it's acknowledging the popularity of those characters, but on the other, it's like a kick in the teeth to their fans), or maybe they could just go with a random assortment of supporting characters from various first- and third-party series.

---

As far as other new characters, I think we might get two or three. If this is really the last Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS presentation, I'm not sure if we'd get any more new third party characters, seeing as none of the DLC newcomers have been characters from Nintendo. I'd love to be proven wrong (Rayman, Bayonetta, or Shovel Knight would be fantastic), but I feel like first party newcomers should be DLC at some point.

Given the popularity of the series and (from what's been seen online) the apparent worldwide demand for a character from it, a Donkey Kong character seems pretty likely. I'm thinking Dixie Kong or King K. Rool, depending on what that K. Rool costume was supposed to mean. (it could have been decided on before the ballot, after all) I don't think they'd come with a new stage, as much as I'd like to see a DKC stage not based on the jungle.

Inklings definitely seem like a possibility - sure, they could be saved for Smash 5, but each Smash game seems to be treated as though it's the last, and it seems to make more sense to strike while the iron's hot rather than wait only to find out that Splatoon's popularity didn't last as long as they thought. (which I doubt, but you never know)

I could see a third character being a curveball, like Cloud or Ryu but for first party characters. It would be a character that's not particularly popular, but the development team really liked the idea of and could use to make a really creative moveset. Then again, these do have to sell, so it could also be another really popular choice. The only problem is that K. Rool is in a tier of his own as far as popular newcomers are concerned, and I can't really think of anyone on that level. Could it be Bandanna Waddle Dee, Captain Toad, or Impa? Maybe someone from a new series? Or maybe they would include another third party character? I have no idea.

tl:dr;
-an overview of Cloud
-Wolf and Snake
-a few new stages + Mii costumes
-Dixie Kong or K. Rool
-Inkling
-maybe a curveball (don't care who, as long as the character fights in their own series)

I know there are only three placeholders in the code at the moment (two if you count Cloud), but I can't see them using an entire Direct-style presentation for two characters.

I realize that some of my list might not be realistic to some people, but I figure they aren't going to end this with a whimper. If we just got something like Wolf, Dixie Kong, and Inkling, a lot of people would be happy, but it wouldn't be as exciting as including someone who is, for one reason or another, unexpected. Then again, this is mostly wishful thinking on my part.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Well, I guess we can finally bury Isaac... because with another anime-esque sword wielding character, his chances have gone down drastically. But I guesss we can pretend Cloud is Isaac and the new stage is Venus Lighthouse, right?

 

[Arcanir]

Also, people need to realize that they're setting up the stage for someone more WTF than Cloud for the Smash Direct. I can practically guarantee that the format will once again be two characters at the beginning (Cloud and probably a veteran) and then a reveal at the end that will make everyone go cross eyed. People used to say that Cloud was impossible but they have someone in the wings that will probably be even more unbelievable. So who's that megaton going to be? I think a certain bird and bear pair would probably crash the internet if people were already foaming at the mouth about Ryu and Cloud.

While that's definitely a possibility, I would be careful about trying to make a pattern like that since this is only the second time we've had a wave of DLC like this and there's nothing saying that they will play this out exactly to the letter like last time.