Meta General MU Help/Discussion

[Red Shirt KRT]

Haven't played any good ones yet.

I got destroyed by a wii fit trainer. It was the toughest game I've ever had in smash yet. I don't think I ever ko'd him.

 

[Sorichuudo]

So, My Smash Corner just posted a video on Fox's jab cancel thingy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agTPENb_1gY

here is the interesting part for us:

"Megaman:
- He can shield before ~80%. After that, he's trapped.
- He can up-B to escape before ~30%.
"

So, how do you guys think this affect the MU against Fox?
For one thing, if he tries that when he is at 80%+ and we are under it, shield and utilt are two beautiful things, but if he lands it when we are at say, 100%... doesn't sound good.
As the video says, sure you have to time Fox jabs perfectly but, i don't think something that simple is hard to do with a little practice.

 

[PairODucks]

I've been having trouble with the occasional Pikachu. He's small, and has fast/low lag aerials and so it's hard to space with pellets. Quick Attack can be used to navigate behind MM after a laggy projectile (including metal blade). It's hard to land, as Pikachu is fairly fast and his upsmash is too good. He has a projectile which is difficult to annihilate with pellets. Gimping is dangerous/very situational.

My only thought is that I should try and force him in the air (say by approaching with grounded pellets), and then trying to fight in the air to take advantage of MM's better range. Anyone have success with this matchup?

 

[Greward]

I've been having trouble with the occasional Pikachu. He's small, and has fast/low lag aerials and so it's hard to space with pellets. Quick Attack can be used to navigate behind MM after a laggy projectile (including metal blade). It's hard to land, as Pikachu is fairly fast and his upsmash is too good. He has a projectile which is difficult to annihilate with pellets. Gimping is dangerous/very situational.

My only thought is that I should try and force him in the air (say by approaching with grounded pellets), and then trying to fight in the air to take advantage of MM's better range. Anyone have success with this matchup?

Don't use Metal Blade (or Crash bomb) against a Pikachu in the air because he can react to it and punish with quick attack.
Yeah, watch out for the Up smash / Forward Smash when landing. As a Mega Man we usually land with nair, but since pikachu is so small its hard to hit him with it. You might try to go to the ledge instead of going into a dangerous landing.
If you get Pikachu in the air, you can fight him with our disjointed aerials. He has small range so we win the air battles if we space correctly.

I usually beat Pikachus but they're hard. I think it's evenish tho, Mega Man has the tools here.

 

[Nobie]

Haven't played any good ones yet.

I got destroyed by a wii fit trainer. It was the toughest game I've ever had in smash yet. I don't think I ever ko'd him.

I was having trouble with Wii Fit Trainer as well for a while, but then started to realize that I was treating her like too many other characters and assuming that she was relatively defenseless off the edge. Similar to Villager, WFT tends to put up a wall when near the ledge that helps to cover her return, and I think the key to beating her is navigating that wall. In particular, I've seen a lot of WFTs online try to stop my follow-up using Header (side b), and because it's quick and out-ranges pellets it can be difficult to stop in the way Mega Man players might normally try.

One simple solution is to air dodge past the volleyball and connect while WFT is recovering from the side b, but of course they can always anticipate your action as well. More often than not, though, I've found that they rely on that volleyball and it's most likely going to come.

 

[ソチャラ「Sóchara 」]

I suck against olimar. It doesn't help that the only Olimar I know personally just came top 50 at apex -_- and he's never on FG so how am I to learn. @SSGuy , you said you had some advice?

(Sorry if this already came up I tried to read a bit into the thread b4 posting)

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I played one olimar that was bad. I feel like it's an uncommon character.

I played a really good rob and had some trouble.

I also have quite a bit of trouble with luigi and Kirby.

 

[Locke 06]

Ughhh. Good Marth/Lucina players. I'm glad Marth as common as he was in previous Smash games. I am not a fan of that matchup as Mega without customs. I miss my ice slasher, but even then I don't like it. Too fast and too much stage control.

I don't really have an answer for FH FAir or retreating FH FAir, and speed + range makes it quite easy to disrupt my own spacing. Once I'm cornered, their option coverage really takes over and resetting to neutral is difficult. Even then, it doesn't feel like a good time.

blehh I don't like that matchup. Iffy Marth/Lucina's I don't have a problem with because they don't bully me as hard to the edge.

 

[Sleek Media]

Ughhh. Good Marth/Lucina players. I'm glad Marth as common as he was in previous Smash games. I am not a fan of that matchup as Mega without customs. I miss my ice slasher, but even then I don't like it. Too fast and too much stage control.

I don't really have an answer for FH FAir or retreating FH FAir, and speed + range makes it quite easy to disrupt my own spacing. Once I'm cornered, their option coverage really takes over and resetting to neutral is difficult. Even then, it doesn't feel like a good time.

blehh I don't like that matchup. Iffy Marth/Lucina's I don't have a problem with because they don't bully me as hard to the edge.

Marth is incredibly easy to disrupt. Buster shots ruin practically everything he does, and he's not a big fan of diagonal metal blades either. Catch him out of a jump with one, and you can even go for a Mega Buster on landing (be sure to overcharge and avoid the counter).

 

[Locke 06]

I should probably start using MB'a more against him. Doing some looking on the marth/lucina MU thread, it seems like grab + MB are more useful than pellets. It just feels like I have very little air space and I'm either retreating or doing something unsafe to try and gain stage control. Which gets met by DB or a grab>juggle trap. Even when I do connect with something unsafe, damage output/reward is pretty low.

Edit:
I'm hesitant to do Toon Link for the next discussipn topic. But if nobody comes up with anything, I'll switch topics by sometime tonight.

 

[ChopperDave]

I should probably start using MB'a more against him. Doing some looking on the marth/lucina MU thread, it seems like grab + MB are more useful than pellets. It just feels like I have very little air space and I'm either retreating or doing something unsafe to try and gain stage control. Which gets met by DB or a grab>juggle trap. Even when I do connect with something unsafe, damage output/reward is pretty low.

Edit:
I'm hesitant to do Toon Link for the next discussipn topic. But if nobody comes up with anything, I'll switch topics by sometime tonight.

I'd be interested in Fox, Luigi, and Lucario in that order. We haven't talked much about them yet.

 

[Fenrir VII]

So in order to inspire conversation here, I took a swag at a matchup chart for Megaman. All of this is completely based on my opinions, and I'll be glad to give justification for anything if questioned. I also didn't include Miis because who knows what those matchups are, or if they'll even be allowed in tourneys (or what moves will be allowed, etc)... too many questions

Legend:
grey = even matchup. in the realm of 55:45 - 45:55 (also included some matchups like Wario/Olimar that I don't really have too much experience in)
blue = slight advantage for us. roughly 55:45 - 6:4
green = fair advantage for us. roughly 6:4 - 7:3 or higher
yellow = slight disadvantage
orange = fair disadvantage.

Obviously this is all fluid and is based on my personal opinions as of today. Yes, I think we currently have 2 disadvantageous matchups, with #3 most likely to be Diddy. But I could see several of the greys having potential to be a negative. I'm also aware that probably a few of my blues would list us as a positive matchup for their chars.
Alright Smashboards... bring your worst *flame shield up*

 

[ChopperDave]

So in order to inspire conversation here, I took a swag at a matchup chart for Megaman. All of this is completely based on my opinions, and I'll be glad to give justification for anything if questioned. I also didn't include Miis because who knows what those matchups are, or if they'll even be allowed in tourneys (or what moves will be allowed, etc)... too many questions

Legend:
grey = even matchup. in the realm of 55:45 - 45:55 (also included some matchups like Wario/Olimar that I don't really have too much experience in)
blue = slight advantage for us. roughly 55:45 - 6:4
green = fair advantage for us. roughly 6:4 - 7:3 or higher
yellow = slight disadvantage
orange = fair disadvantage.

Obviously this is all fluid and is based on my personal opinions as of today. Yes, I think we currently have 2 disadvantageous matchups, with #3 most likely to be Diddy. But I could see several of the greys having potential to be a negative. I'm also aware that probably a few of my blues would list us as a positive matchup for their chars.
Alright Smashboards... bring your worst *flame shield up*

Can you try uploading it again? The picture isn't loading for me.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Can you try uploading it again? The picture isn't loading for me.

hm odd. try now?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I think we have more matchups that are grey rather than blue.

I think rosalina and Luma should be at least grey. I think Zelda can be really tough for mega as well.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I've spoken endlessly on the Rosa matchup (one example http://smashboards.com/threads/worst-match-up-for-mega-man.387895/page-4#post-18528699), so I really don't feel like going back through that. There's no reason to believe that is any worse than even, and I personally believe it's a positive for us due to Mega destroying Rosa without Luma and having good tools to remove luma, as well as playing her fairly even when she HAS luma around

Now Zelda... that's a new one. How is zelda hard?
Offhand and in practice, pellets and metal blades seem to severely restrict her movement, and her neutB is baitable/punishable, so I haven't ever had an issue against her. Just gotta shield the random teleports and play a good spacing game.

 

[mega4000]

I've spoken endlessly on the Rosa matchup (one example http://smashboards.com/threads/worst-match-up-for-mega-man.387895/page-4#post-18528699), so I really don't feel like going back through that. There's no reason to believe that is any worse than even, and I personally believe it's a positive for us due to Mega destroying Rosa without Luma and having good tools to remove luma, as well as playing her fairly even when she HAS luma around

Now Zelda... that's a new one. How is zelda hard?
Offhand and in practice, pellets and metal blades seem to severely restrict her movement, and her neutB is baitable/punishable, so I haven't ever had an issue against her. Just gotta shield the random teleports and play a good spacing game.

megaman destroying rosalina without luma? why? there is no reason for the rosalina player to actually fight back. He can just start rolling and doding waiting for you to fail in order to get a grab while running away, plus every time you don't rush her, luma comes back.

 

[ChopperDave]

I still think Sheik isn't as bad for us as you make her out to be. It's a hard matchup for sure, but defensive pellet play can keep her spaced out, and pivot fsmashes are nice for baiting and punishing Bouncing Fish. When I play this MU I find it often ends in a sort of stalemate, with each of us using our safest moves to chip away percentage and fish for KOs/punishes.

R.O.B. I think is a slight or even solid advantage for us. I used to have trouble with this MU until I figured out a few things. We can really cripple R.O.B.'s game by grabbing and holding onto his gyro, then falling back on our specials and using Zero's trick to fire pellets with gyro in hand. Once you nab the gyro R.O.B. becomes a lot less dangerous, and we can easily keep him spaced because he's such a big target. Offstage he's pretty easy to hit with blade drops, bairs, and dairs given the way his recovery works. His reflect is highly punishable on whiff. You even have time to throw out a dsmash if he ends his spin next to you.

I tend to have trouble with good Little Mac and Shulk players, so I'm curious to see why you think they're such favorable MUs for us. All of Little Mac's super frames really screw with my zoning game, and he doesn't **** around with his punishes. Meanwhile, Shulk's got a nair that eats through all our pellets and outranges our fair, giving him an air approach that is more viable against us than most. Speed is scary in the right hands, and he can often get some nasty combos and offstage chases in against us because of our weight and the absurd range of his sword.

 

[Locke 06]

At a glance, I have Marcina, Shulk, DK, MK, wario being questionable matchups. Wario I'm less sure about and I think I just need more experience with him, but his weight, punish, and chomp do a lot of work in this MU. MK's are rarely seen but theoretically I think he beats us hard. The others have great range and speed to force a retreat and then they have good option coverage to press their advantage.

I'll add more later tonight/maybe do one of these myself.

And dark pit being blue while pit is grey I find interesting. I guess I could get on board for the difference in upperdash vs electroshock for straight KO's, but electroshock has a good angle for putting Mega off stage for gimps. The ftilt knockback difference helps Pit though, since I haven't seen or heard of anyone use dpit's ftilt better than pit's.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Hey look, my effort to inspire discussion actually worked. : )

RE to mega4000. Rosalina. Again... megaman is GOOD at punishing dodging. The argument you are making could literally be applied to every character that Megaman has an advantage on.. "Why? they can just roll and you can't hit them!". That's just not a strong or accurate argument, and again, I think we run mostly even with Rosalina when Luma IS around.

RE to Dave. I wanted to separate Sheik as I do think she's our hardest matchup by a fairly wide margin. Now that said, I think we run even with the vast majority of Sheik players, but at the very high level, the matchup really scares me because she can apply SO MUCH pressure and weave in and out of our zoning. We have to land our killmoves to keep up with her, and that (theoretically) proves difficult against her. This is 100% anti-salt though, as I've never played a Sheik that I was scared of yet.
ROB I don't really know. I have heard people calling him a mega man counter and I don't see that, but I don't know enough about the matchup to call it at this point. In my experience against him, I don't have any arguments with what you posted.
Little Mac, we edgeguard like crazy. I've actually played tourney level Macs and just stomped them. I think we have the tools to make him approach and punish him HARD for them. This may be a function of my life's devotion to grabbing... but the matchup really becomes "how long will it take me to land a grab and get you offstage?"
Shulk we just outspace with patient play. We control the pacing of the matchup, and dair edgeguards are wonderful against him. All of our bair combos work. I've played a bunch of Shulks, and I really just think we stomp him. I could see it being blue, but I don't see Shulk consistently beating us.

RE to Locke. Marcina we just outspace and all our combos work... our edgeguards are valid against them. I mean I think it's far from a counter, but they always seem our advantage... it also helps that they have trouble killing us too (have to land a higher risk move to do it), so it's fairly even in that regard. We had this discussion on the Lucina board a while back and they were calling it 4-6 too.
Shulk I responded to. DK, MK, Wario I need more experience against. In theory, MB wrecks DK, and we can edgeguard him well, hence the advantage. MK and Wario I don't know enough so they're grey. I think the killpower difference might be crucial in the MK matchup but I'm really not sure.
Kudos for being the person to call me out about the Pits... I wondered who would. So I actually do have reasoning for this one... I think Pit is a good deal harder than D Pit primarily because of the arrows. They give him an incredibly valid edgeguarding setup that has the potential to steal jumps or put us in bad situations for a followup. They also can be used in a variety of ways on stage against us to help neutralize our own spam. SideB being a better killmove is also nice, considering he has some trouble killing, but really the arrows are the defining trait. I kind of think his ftilt is a trash move anyway, so that didn't play in too much. All that said, I'm not sure where the Pit matchup should be... haven't played any good ones, and thru theorycrafting, it could go either way. I do feel pretty strongly that Pit is harder than D Pit however.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I played a badass ROB player the other day it was a really tough game. When he out ranges us and has wicked recovery it makes it hard to rack up damage and get a kill.

I found it to be a tough matchup.

I think yoshi might be a tougher matchup than people think.

Same with captain falcon

 

[CopShowGuy]

Pretty much all large characters are canon fodder for Mega Man. That's and .

 

[Fenrir VII]

Yoshi harder than even?
CF harder than 4-6ish?

not being a jerk, just clarifying whether you're responding to me.

 

[Funkermonster]

I don't have too much experience with Wario, but I was knocked out by a really good one in a tournament a couple weeks ago, and I'm probably going to face him again in a couple days online. I think I lost more due to my own mistakes though rather than because of MU traits, as I view him as a better player than me in general (he did tell me he thinks I am a smart player with lots of potential though, I just lack certain fundamentals and tournament experience).


But when fighting him and researching a little more on Wario, I've learned a bit about Wario's main weaknesses:

• Very Poor Range
• Underwhelming Killing Moves, especially if he doesn't have his fart available.
• Doesn't have many, if any, possible combos

Apparently, Wario's lack of range is his biggest flaw, and he can't break through proper spacing as well as a few other characters can. With that in mind, it seem like great use of the mega buster can annoy him if we play defensively and try to keep him from getting in. He is able to devour Metal Blades and Crash Bombers with his Chomp though to heal off them, and he digests his food much faster than Kirby and Dedede do with their Inhale so he can't be punished nearly as easily. If you have a Leaf Shield activated, Wario can still use his Chomp and catch you, unfortunately. It does however, remove him from his bike if you shield it, and you can get a free shieldgrab from that (I wonder if he can eat a thrown Leaf Shield..... dunno).


And this probably needs more testing, but when I play as Pac-Man against Wario, a fellow Pac player who happens to have Wario as a secondary has told me that certain fruits Pac-Man has can knock Wario off his bike and that it doesn't have much priority. The Chomp is obviously a very versatile command grab and basically an all-purpose move for Wario, which disallows us from shielding too much and we absolutely have to respect this move, he literally eats shields. The guy also told me his Chomp has a blind spot though: The Active hitbox for it is only in front of him, and he is still vulnerable to getting hit from above and below, so we can still get him with Hard Knuckles, Metal Blades, Air Shooters, and Possibly Danger Wraps if we shoot them from directly below/above him away from his mouth so he doesn't eat them. He also cannot eat Pac-Man's apples if thrown diagonally from above, so I'm assuming he's still vulnerable to Megaman's Metal Blades if thrown diagonally from midair....

 

[CopShowGuy]

Wario is a pretty tough one for Mega Man. Wario may not have much range, but his aerial mobility is top notch. He can weave in and out pretty easily. Also if you don't play aggressively and go for early kills, Wario will get his waft and be ready to fire that off. Even half charged, that move hurts.

 

[ChopperDave]

Pit is one of those matchups where it's a good idea to UpB before double jump. Renders his arrows a non-issue, and he doesn't have a lot of options to threaten us when we recover high. You can also cancel any horizontal arrows out by firing off a pellet while recovering.

 

[Xzsmmc]

(I wonder if he can eat a thrown Leaf Shield..... dunno).

He can.

 

[Funkermonster]

^ Darn it

 

[Sorichuudo]

Fought a friend online with a really good Link today.

Bombs eat pellets but trades with MB, ocasional leafshield will also go trhough bombs. Thing is, he can pull out bombs really fast so it can get annoying.

I am not with the few people who believe "hylian shield baby i can block EVERYTHING" but it can save his hide sometimes.

As usual, his killing moves are easier to hit than ours, sure we can shield and punish but is the same as always: he misses, either we punish perfectly or he doesn't dies(also a good link will not just throw out his dash attack if it isn't safe for him); we miss, eat a quick fsmash or whatever and that's a stock.

Good thing is, it seems we can keep him away really well, and his bombs can screw him over too if he goes yolo with them.

I will say that my edgeguarding game SUCKS is not the best, but he still seems easy to edgeguard. Fsmash, stick a CB on him, z-drop a MB, throw a MB, run off and bair etc.

Not trying to call what a MU is after figthing one good Link, i just think that it seems evenish for me.

Anyway, i look forward to playing against him more, but anyone here with experience in this MU ?

 

[mega4000]

Hey look, my effort to inspire discussion actually worked. : )

RE to mega4000. Rosalina. Again... megaman is GOOD at punishing dodging. The argument you are making could literally be applied to every character that Megaman has an advantage on.. "Why? they can just roll and you can't hit them!". That's just not a strong or accurate argument, and again, I think we run mostly even with Rosalina when Luma IS around.

RE to Dave. I wanted to separate Sheik as I do think she's our hardest matchup by a fairly wide margin. Now that said, I think we run even with the vast majority of Sheik players, but at the very high level, the matchup really scares me because she can apply SO MUCH pressure and weave in and out of our zoning. We have to land our killmoves to keep up with her, and that (theoretically) proves difficult against her. This is 100% anti-salt though, as I've never played a Sheik that I was scared of yet.
ROB I don't really know. I have heard people calling him a mega man counter and I don't see that, but I don't know enough about the matchup to call it at this point. In my experience against him, I don't have any arguments with what you posted.
Little Mac, we edgeguard like crazy. I've actually played tourney level Macs and just stomped them. I think we have the tools to make him approach and punish him HARD for them. This may be a function of my life's devotion to grabbing... but the matchup really becomes "how long will it take me to land a grab and get you offstage?"
Shulk we just outspace with patient play. We control the pacing of the matchup, and dair edgeguards are wonderful against him. All of our bair combos work. I've played a bunch of Shulks, and I really just think we stomp him. I could see it being blue, but I don't see Shulk consistently beating us.

RE to Locke. Marcina we just outspace and all our combos work... our edgeguards are valid against them. I mean I think it's far from a counter, but they always seem our advantage... it also helps that they have trouble killing us too (have to land a higher risk move to do it), so it's fairly even in that regard. We had this discussion on the Lucina board a while back and they were calling it 4-6 too.
Shulk I responded to. DK, MK, Wario I need more experience against. In theory, MB wrecks DK, and we can edgeguard him well, hence the advantage. MK and Wario I don't know enough so they're grey. I think the killpower difference might be crucial in the MK matchup but I'm really not sure.
Kudos for being the person to call me out about the Pits... I wondered who would. So I actually do have reasoning for this one... I think Pit is a good deal harder than D Pit primarily because of the arrows. They give him an incredibly valid edgeguarding setup that has the potential to steal jumps or put us in bad situations for a followup. They also can be used in a variety of ways on stage against us to help neutralize our own spam. SideB being a better killmove is also nice, considering he has some trouble killing, but really the arrows are the defining trait. I kind of think his ftilt is a trash move anyway, so that didn't play in too much. All that said, I'm not sure where the Pit matchup should be... haven't played any good ones, and thru theorycrafting, it could go either way. I do feel pretty strongly that Pit is harder than D Pit however.

I really need to see a tutorial on how to punish rolls properly with megaman. I've practice and applied every trick you have post and the only one that is working is down smash who is unsafe as ****. Diddys rolling all the day are nightmares for me. Retreating flame sword and pellets are not working.

 

[Locke 06]

The idea with solo Rosa is that if she's just running and dodging, she's not doing anything to you. You don't need to rush her down, just be patient. Take the chip damage and keep composure. If she does something stupid, then punish, but you don't need to do anything. You can if you want though, which is why you are at an advantage.

As for punishing rolls - http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-deal-with-a-rolling-opponent.375075/ should help you. It's more difficult online because your timing is slightly modified by lag. Pellets are a safe way to check your opponent, dtilt, dsmash, usmash, and FAir all stay out rather long and have a good wide range to hit your opponent so you don't have to be too precise. Diddy has a very fast roll and it can be troublesome, but you can think about it like this: if you do nothing and they roll, they are committing to a set distance movement with no offensive capability and a period of vulnerability. During that time that they are rolling, you can react and either position yourself better, start an offensive, or something like it.

Hope that helps!

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

Mega Man beats Link. Pellets nullify arrows and boomerangs, and bombs should not give you trouble since they are slow and shieldable/catchable. We have a field day gimping Link, and the only thing he can really use to cover himself is boomerang, which a nair will take care of anyways. Nair gimps, with out without sweetspot. Bair stage spike covers low recovery, Leaf Shield works for stages without walls. Dair if he can't sweetspot ledge.

On stage, his Hylian Shield only ever works if he is idle. Don't worry about it. If Link approaches with short hop aerials, well spaced FSmashes stuff it, as well as perfect shield -> grab. Link is super susceptible to dthrow chains, just look out for nair. Always equip yourself with a Metal Blade and short hop throw it. If it hits, it leads to grab. When in doubt, a thrown Leaf Shield goes through all projectiles.

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

Congrats @ Locke 06 on your 1,000th message.

 

[Greward]

I think that's overhyping mega man. Or else you think he's top 3 best characters in the game lol.

I disagree on:
Mario (i think he wins the MU. I'd say 4-6)
Bowser (we beat him. 6-4 or 7-3 dunno)
Wario (He definitely has the upper hand. It's not a matchup you want to play as Mega Man. Might be orange but the lack of Warios make it hard to say)
Diddy Kong (i'd list him as yellow. Mega Man is better than most of the cast against him tho)
G&W (i'd put it as blue. He has some annoying tools against us but I feel he is underpowered).
ZSS (she wins the matchup hands down. Her nair > MM, I could explain more but no space here)
Pit (he wins. Probably yellow or even orange. I'd list the MU as 35-65)
Palutena (we win with customs off)
Fox (we lose. Probably yellow)
Falco (even. shine + jab are very hard for us to deal with)
Pikachu (even, probably)
Charizard (we win)
Greninja (7-3 maybe, we win hard. haven't played amsa tho)
Ness (i'd say even, but we discussed this some time ago so whatever)
ROB (I'd put him as slight disadvantage but I'm not sure. So I guess even works)
Olimar (he has the upper hand, yellow imo)
Wii fit trainer (we win)
Shulk (evenish imo)
Dr Mario (more like 6-4 than 7-3)
Dark Pit (same as Pit, altho dark pit is slightly weaker in the matchup so about 4-6)

 

[Fenrir VII]

See that's the problem currently. On one page, somebody is saying g&w is our worst matchup and Pit is strongly in our favor, then on another, it's completely swapped. Right now I'm just chalking that up to experience/playstyle bias and trying to average it out as best I can.

Now all that said, there's really no reason we should lose to Mario, Fox, ZSS (some people consider us a hard counter to her). I've posted a good bit about all 3, so I won't elaborate for now. And color me very skeptical that wario and Pit are both such negative matchups, although admittedly I'm lacking in good personal experience in those matchups.

Now RE mega being top 3. few issues with that statement, as a char with a lot of even matchups and 2 disadvantages does not necessarily equal top 3.
Furthermore, I'm fully expecting some of the greys to be negatives in the end (but again, I don't have perfect matchup knowledge), but I do think mega will have one of the (top 5-10 or so) best matchup spreads in this game once the dust clears.
Also, crazy thought here, but who's to necessarily say he's not top 3? Nobody really knows how to play him yet, and they're still getting good placements with him. I'm not sure where that will land him, but he's a solid char and trending upwards. That I'm sure of.

 

[CopShowGuy]

I feel as if Mega Man handles ZSS very well. Pit is a bit more troublesome and so is Mario (less than Pit though).

Mega Man lacks some reliable kill moves that many other characters have. Bair is his best kill/gimp tool that can be easily thrown out without fear of being punished hard on a bad read. He's great at spacing and racking up some good damage but unless there are better ways to combo into utilt (outside of ZIGMA) or dsmash it will be difficult to bring Mega Man up.

 

[ChopperDave]

I feel as if Mega Man handles ZSS very well. Pit is a bit more troublesome and so is Mario (less than Pit though).

Mega Man lacks some reliable kill moves that many other characters have. Bair is his best kill/gimp tool that can be easily thrown out without fear of being punished hard on a bad read. He's great at spacing and racking up some good damage but unless there are better ways to combo into utilt (outside of ZIGMA) or dsmash it will be difficult to bring Mega Man up.

Well, if customs are allowed in tournaments going forward, we'll get Danger Wrap, which is a great move overall and a fairly reliable KO option. And I still need to test this against more good players, but I have the suspicion that Tornado Hold could make our offstage KO game just bananas.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Mega Man has above average killmoves in terms of raw killpower.
The current problem is that they are (A) fairly hard to setup and (B) very bad for you on miss/shield.

Considering that the problem is really in setting up the killmoves, as opposed to just not having them, I actually see this as room for improvement. I think we'll get better at landing killmoves as time goes on, and I'm excited to see how that looks. Because honestly, utilt is in the upper echelon of killmoves in the game, considering its quick startup and invincibility.

An example of this is the metal blade > utilt findings... I think more of those setups exist, and we'll overall get more reliable with killing. Considering Mega's neutral game is among the best in the game, if we solve our biggest problem, yeah I could see Mega being a monster. I'm eager to see what happens here.

Also, I agree with Dave... if Danger Wrap is allowed, we essentially get a safe killmove to just throw out after dthrow or any time the opponent is above you. It applies crazy pressure, so even if it doesn't land, you get a punish on however the opponent avoided it. As a side note, it also naturally punishes spot dodging by outlasting the dodge with its hitbox, which feels amazing. I'm curious to see if customs will catch on in the long run.

 

[mega4000]

I think that's overhyping mega man. Or else you think he's top 3 best characters in the game lol.

I disagree on:
Mario (i think he wins the MU. I'd say 4-6)
Bowser (we beat him. 6-4 or 7-3 dunno)
Wario (He definitely has the upper hand. It's not a matchup you want to play as Mega Man. Might be orange but the lack of Warios make it hard to say)
Diddy Kong (i'd list him as yellow. Mega Man is better than most of the cast against him tho)
G&W (i'd put it as blue. He has some annoying tools against us but I feel he is underpowered).
ZSS (she wins the matchup hands down. Her nair > MM, I could explain more but no space here)
Pit (he wins. Probably yellow or even orange. I'd list the MU as 35-65)
Palutena (we win with customs off)
Fox (we lose. Probably yellow)
Falco (even. shine + jab are very hard for us to deal with)
Pikachu (even, probably)
Charizard (we win)
Greninja (7-3 maybe, we win hard. haven't played amsa tho)
Ness (i'd say even, but we discussed this some time ago so whatever)
ROB (I'd put him as slight disadvantage but I'm not sure. So I guess even works)
Olimar (he has the upper hand, yellow imo)
Wii fit trainer (we win)
Shulk (evenish imo)
Dr Mario (more like 6-4 than 7-3)
Dark Pit (same as Pit, altho dark pit is slightly weaker in the matchup so about 4-6)

It's funny how you have troubles against ZSS but consider Rosalina an easy match, while I have destroyed the best ZSS players in my country, but Rosalina is still a pain in the ass. Hell, the same player has Zero suit as main too and he can't beat me. Guess the matchups really are something subjective.

 

[mega4000]

I feel as if Mega Man handles ZSS very well. Pit is a bit more troublesome and so is Mario (less than Pit though).

Mega Man lacks some reliable kill moves that many other characters have. Bair is his best kill/gimp tool that can be easily thrown out without fear of being punished hard on a bad read. He's great at spacing and racking up some good damage but unless there are better ways to combo into utilt (outside of ZIGMA) or dsmash it will be difficult to bring Mega Man up.

bair on the ground is unsafe against shield. You can use bair only in the air, unless you know a way to perform bair on the ground and make it safe.

Well, if customs are allowed in tournaments going forward, we'll get Danger Wrap, which is a great move overall and a fairly reliable KO option. And I still need to test this against more good players, but I have the suspicion that Tornado Hold could make our offstage KO game just bananas.

you really need to teach me the way to properly use Tornado Hold. You should make a guide, because everytime I read a post from you talking about Tornado Hold, I learn something new.

Mega Man has above average killmoves in terms of raw killpower.
The current problem is that they are (A) fairly hard to setup and (B) very bad for you on miss/shield.

Considering that the problem is really in setting up the killmoves, as opposed to just not having them, I actually see this as room for improvement. I think we'll get better at landing killmoves as time goes on, and I'm excited to see how that looks. Because honestly, utilt is in the upper echelon of killmoves in the game, considering its quick startup and invincibility.

An example of this is the metal blade > utilt findings... I think more of those setups exist, and we'll overall get more reliable with killing. Considering Mega's neutral game is among the best in the game, if we solve our biggest problem, yeah I could see Mega being a monster. I'm eager to see what happens here.

Also, I agree with Dave... if Danger Wrap is allowed, we essentially get a safe killmove to just throw out after dthrow or any time the opponent is above you. It applies crazy pressure, so even if it doesn't land, you get a punish on however the opponent avoided it. As a side note, it also naturally punishes spot dodging by outlasting the dodge with its hitbox, which feels amazing. I'm curious to see if customs will catch on in the long run.

The metal blade >utilt kill is what I use the most and feel more confortable, but it has a lot of flaws.
First, if your opponent shields a lot, fights all the time in the air or roll backwards, it's very very hard to setup and you will be likely not using it in the entire match.
Second, this kill only works if the blade hits two times. Throwing it down doesn't hit two times(only once), so if your opponent is smart, he will be able to shield or escape that. Only with a diagonal metal blade you can set this kill to work 100% of the time. (Maybe and expert in this kill move can offer more variables instead of just diagonal metal blade utilt.)
Also Danger Wrap is the best move mega man has. The setups, edge guarding, ledge punish and combos are so amazing that not having in our moveset really hurt us. Shame that crash bomb has to be sacrificed, because is good for mind games but danger wrap is so amazing that not using it is nerfing the character.