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Social General Ice Climber Chat

Sasser

solo nana
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
59
Location
Harlem, NY
Ever since my last local tournament, I had heavily considered picking up another character. I got counterpicked against and I felt helpless. I don't have my own cube, so I don't get a lot of tech practice. People would chat endlessly about ICs just not having what it takes to win big, even with the infinite. I never even came close to beating good players as ICs. But after watching Wobbles, I just want to be the 119,414th person to just say that his performance at EVO was beyond inspirational.

Shame, because my Puff was looking pretty solid.

I don't even know where to start. I had moved back to NYC thinking I would get to play a lot more smash, but oddly enough locals wound up not being very local, so I left. #deardiary

my favorite part about grand finals is how nobody knew Nana is invincible during upbs
 

Tomber

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
243
Location
Denmark
Sup guys. I ended getting 25th, which is pretty cool. I beat Scar, DEHF, and Redd. Lost to Westballz and S2J. My games against west and s2j were really close, but they both really good players so I don't really mind losing to them. And if I had beaten West then I had to play Armada in the following match. GG. My games against Scar and Redd were close too.

Good ****, Wobbles. You still need to get better at wobbling, though. But besides that you played really well through the whole tournament.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
I got 17th, but didn't do anything impressive to get there. While I'm not thrilled with how I played, I don't think it mattered much since I had an Armada/S2J bracket, and even if I were very on-point and managed to beat S2J, I would have played Armada again in losers right afterwards. I can't say I'm terribly happy with how that played out, but I likely didn't deserve to make it farther than that anyways given how I played. So it goes.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,545
Always a big fan of your competitive mindset, Jeremy. Wish more people shared your views, people would get a lot better.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
Anyone learn anything from this tournament that they want to share? Fox seems pretty good vs ICs, better than even I thought he was already, although it might just be the mango effect.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
My opinion of the Fox match-up is pretty much the same as it has been for a long time, namely, slight advantage for Fox. I didn't learn all that much off the top of my head, although I'm sure I can come up with things upon greater reflection. I might be a little more inclined to say ICs counter Luigi than I was before, but I'd still want to think about that more. In other news, we should have another podcast in the not-too-distant future.
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
Did you get to play Vist at all? I know he really wanted to play you. He also really wanted a shot at Wobbles, but unfortunately he lost to Lord in pools so that didn't happen.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
It boils down to ice block & blizzard walls when he's on the ground, trying to stay below him whenever he's airborne or on the top platform, and retreating a lot (either to whiff punish or set up a desynch) when he's on the ground and you don't have a desynch set up, although you can also mix in stuff like dash attacks if you think he's going to overshoot an approach in anticipation of that.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
wobbles played godlike

looks like i couldn't clutch it out vs peach even with all my counter pick preparation. i lost to a random peach, Eval from mexico, and placed 79th

still, it was an amazing event and i think all the ic players represented the character well

2 wobbles
17 fly
25 tomber
49 boback
79 choknater

zzZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

also met a girl named hannah who was pretty good at wobbling lol

too bad she was eliminated by my fellow ic brother from modesto, ca (who i trained in the ditto many years ago LOL)
 

Iron Dragon

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
1,239
Location
Arizona
wobbles played godlike

looks like i couldn't clutch it out vs peach even with all my counter pick preparation. i lost to a random peach, Eval from mexico, and placed 79th

still, it was an amazing event and i think all the ic players represented the character well

2 wobbles
17 fly
25 tomber
49 boback
79 choknater

zzZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

also met a girl named hannah who was pretty good at wobbling lol

too bad she was eliminated by my fellow ic brother from modesto, ca (who i trained in the ditto many years ago LOL)
quick note on Hannah, she's wobbles' ex girlfriend and though i don't know for sure, i'm probably right in my assumption that she was taught a good bit by Rob himself. just thought i'd come in and say that haha.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
hahaha okay i see

unfortunately she asked me to play but i didn't get to :( i opted to watch SF and Marvel semifinals rather than play melee

it's crazy though, the melee setups were full and active for the entire event. it was great to see. i could've played more but i just didn't want to miss the capcom hype!
 

Redd

thataintfalco.com
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
4,102
Location
Richmond, Virginia
GGs tomber and nice comeback. Tho I don't respect wobbling your neutral game is very good and reminds me of Chu's style. If we ever play again you better be ready. <3
 

Tomber

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
243
Location
Denmark
I'm glad to see that match got recorded. I like how I played that set. You guys should check my set against Scar too if you haven't already. The game play isn't that great, but 3rd match is something any IC player might find funny.
GGs tomber and nice comeback. Tho I don't respect wobbling your neutral game is very good and reminds me of Chu's style. If we ever play again you better be ready. <3
Yeah, good games. I hate wobbling myself too, but I'm really good at it and it gives ICs an edge in quite a few match ups, so yeah. Play to win. We should play again if we ever get the chance again for sure.

I've improved quite a lot lately, but I still need to work on a few things. Like, I'm successful atm because of my punish game, which is really good, but my defenses can still become better. I'm getting there, though. In other news, I'm still in USA with King Funk, Navn, and Jonas. We went to a smash fest yesterday where I placed 1st (16-person bracket. Okami got 2nd, O'RLY got 3rd).

I have a lot of stuff I'd like to write about and share, but that must wait as I'm super tired right now.

Also, it was super cool to see you guys at Evo, choknater, Fly, and Wobbles! Hope to meet you all again at some point.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
yeah man nice to meet you too :) cool fella.

i just realized i won one round with ic's at evo LOL

round 1 sheik vs peach
round 2 sheik vs peach
round 3 ic's vs falcon/falco
round 4 young link vs samus

then i lost lol
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
Does anyone know someone who can draw? I want to get a good quality version of my signature. I dont have any money or anything but if you guys know anyone who wouldnt mind doing something like that it would be super neato. I eventually want to make a shirt and maybe a sticker or something for my controller out of it and to do that I need something way higher quality, which means hand drawn to get this kind of pose since brawl doesnt have the high five anywhere in the opening sequence. Im not particularly picky about the style although something that looks like a 32bit megaman type of style but ics would be really cool.

Also I've been playing a ton more smash and its really nice to finally be close to technically consistent.
 

lanabo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
80
are there any vids (besides sethlon v choknator from 2008) of ICs vs Roy on FD? i know that the MU is said to be heavily favored for ICs but there aren't any vids of competitive play between the two characters aside from sethlon vs choknator.

also, seeing as the both the matchup and video threads have no info on ICs vs Roy, does anyone have any tips on the matchup on FD specifically? i've just started playing ICs and i'm especially having trouble dealing with roy's CC.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
Acoording to a roy main in oregon who I have beaten a good number of times ICs are just straight up impossible to beat.

I just mindlessly wavedash into him with smashes and jabs until I win ocasionally throwing in nairs and stuff. Even if I lose 5-6 trades before I hit once its usually worth it since he can never really get a good followup. If I tried to think even a little bit I could probably 4 stock him, honestly if you have basic technical proficiency you can just kind of do whatever until you win. When he goes Falcon we are basically even so I dont think its a huge skill gap causing this either.
 

lanabo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
80
thanks. i think i was approaching the MU too cautiously. will post results when i play vs my friend's roy.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
Pretty much just wavedash at him all the time, and you can either smash, jab grab, grab, or do an up air. I would say which ones you should do for which predictions but the simple fact is that even if you just guess and have no idea why it works you will probably kill him without really worrying about it.

The key is just to throw out lots of stuff. The only move he has is his forward smash and if you crouch cancel everything else he has into grabs you basically do 50%+ for every 10% he does to you. If he starts smashing just dash outside of its range and then run in and kill him.

That being said, if you are trying to learn the character you should practice vs characters that are not roy or you are going to learn some REALLY bad habits because other characters are not pushovers like roy is.
 

Tomber

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
243
Location
Denmark
Alright, I'm heading back to Denmark in a few days with Navn and Jonas. The main purpose of the trip was to experience America, but I ended up playing some smash here and there anyway. Here are some of my wins/loses against some of the American players I got to play against. I might have forgot a few and there might be some mistakes, but whatever.

Tournament (Evo, local smash fest, tournament at the game center in Norcal)
3-3 Scar (2-1 for me at Evo, 1-2 for him at gc tournament. Both sets are recorded)
2-0 DEHF (3 stock, 1 stock. The set is recorded)
2-1 Redd (he 3 stocked first game, then I won the next two)
0-2 Westballs (I was up 3 stocks to 1 in the first game, but he ended up beating me both games with one stock. Last game is recorded)
0-2 S2J (2 stock, 1 stock)
0-2 DP (I played this guy in a lot of friendlies the day before the tournament where we played more or less even. Then he outplayed me in the tournament. This guy is really good)
0-2 Darrell (I think i was two 1 stocks high %. Not sure. It was close anyway. The set is recorded)
6-4 Okami (he beat me 3-0 with Sheik in WFs of a local smash fest. Then I beat his Sheik 3-0 in GFs 1, and 3-1 in GFs 2 where he won 1 game with Peach and lost a total of 3 games with Young Link, Sheik, and Peach.
5-1 O'RLY (Don't remember. He got grabbed a lot. Last game was a 3 stock)
4-1 Violence (I played this guy once in pools and once in bracket in NorCal)
2-0 Phil (I won first by making a 0 to KO comeback with my Sopo on my last stock. 2nd game was a 3 stock IIRC. The set is recorded.
3-1 Rickety (Cool guy)

I won the rest of my tournament matches, but can't remember the names of the players I played against.

Friendlies (don't matter, but yeah)
4-0 Tang
8-2 (or something like that) Strong Bad
4-0 Tai
1-1 M2K (Took a game off his Sheik, then he went Peach)
2-1 Shiz (He won the first match with 2 stocks, then I 3 stocked and JV 3 stocked him the next games)
5-3 (or something link that) Eggz
6-1 The Moon
4-1 John
2-0 Sheik
1-1 PPU
0-4 Jolteon (This guy plays Sheik and is pretty good at the match up)
0-1 Stab
0-2 Jman (3 stock, 1 stock high %)


That's it for now. Good games everyone. You American guys are pretty cool. I'll be back again at some point.
I think I'll write a Wobbling Set-up guide once I'm back in Denmark as I think this is something pretty much everyone here can get a lot better at. I have a lot of neat tricks and some general advice that will make your wobbling experience even better.

Here are some notes I wrote. These are pretty much reminders to myself, but I thought I would share them as they might be useful for some of you as well:

Do
- Care more about your shield; if your shield is small, stall a little.
- Bait more against players who know the match up/ know the spacing
- Shield baiting is great; approach with shield, then retreat when you think they are going to approach you and punish them.
- Slow and safe wob. set-ups at high %; Fast and more risky at low %
- When in doubt make sure you control the center stage.
- Be patient when edge guarding firefox; always be ready to hit illusions

Don't
- Synced side-b isn't a safe way to recover/save Nana; trying to save Nana isn't always he best thing ti do
- Don't down-smash every time you CC (bad habit)
- Don's WD/dashforward at short distance unless you get a read/ are over shooting
- Don't shield all the time
- Don't keep holding direction when rolling
- Don't sandbag with your main
- Don't try to tech right away every time you get hit (bad habit)
- Don't go to he very end of the stage unless you're going for a read
 

Smasher89

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,936
Location
Sweden
So played some smash with active players for the first time in about a year and learned some good stuff.
Having a break is very good since i broke an old pattern and had like 47 out of 50 wobblingtries done consistent (which i had no idea before i would even get once) in matches against mashing opponents.

Blizzard is a decently bad setup for wobbling, jab ftilt is soo much more reliable if you can get your mind into it.

ICS still are fun when you get good punishes of stuff as you should. Nana random fair> react>wobbling is so fun to get!

For edgeguard i learned that in the position that shiek often can recover to (close to edge), you can just fair (hit with meteor)>techchase dsmash as sopo for some decent damage and positioning.

Other then that spam bair is probably one of the more safe thing to do in neutralgame(especially since you have your back against the opponent and are able to desynch at any time), and since it can set up for grabs there is no reason not to do it as long as you wont get stuck in a position and eat a bair from behind rom fox.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
@ Smasher89


Bair is not even remotely safe vs Fox, he can grab before you can do anything even on the auto canceled bairs

Can you post a link of what you mean vs Sheik?

And ya I notice after long breaks that I break alot of bad habbits but my tech skill really suffers.
 

Smasher89

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,936
Location
Sweden
It must be possible to space good enough for that to not happen and open up options like dsmash behind and stuff like that. But yea Armada punished me for bad positioning and shielding the 2 matches we played and i feel it could have been played a bit different getting me more than that one wobble in 2 matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ODqZr9IcKM&t=0m42s

Punish that landing with Popo fair sends them into a techdsmashtrap.

Had really no problem with my techskill as ICs, only my DI was poor reverse from good in alot of situations. But yea when mixing it up as fox I really couldnt rushdown at all lol, but that is like it was before, the difference between a good techskillday and not is kinda huge.
 

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
Bair is not even remotely safe vs Fox, he can grab before you can do anything even on the auto canceled bairs
fading out a bit makes it pretty safe between hitbox drag and the extra space you open up...they can still nair/dair you though. Grab is not that scary if you space the bair right though, you don't have a super low lag move though to cover him coming in after the bair though. so if you dsmash and he dashdances back, you can still get punished..but you can adapt him to dashdancing back. Anyway AC bairs seem as safe as ICs get, unless there is some crazy desynch that you can use to make a safer wall.

anyway i just find the statement a bit too general...so if he is dashing forward as you whiff moving backwards and he is at full speed and grabs right afterward then i guess that it's true he can punish you..but he's not always going to be at that perfect spacing, and if i were the fox...i wouldn't be trying to force grab punishes i would be content with just dashing in and then having frame advantage on the ICs landing
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
What Eggs and Silent wolf do to me when I bair around grab range is just run at me and shine, the timing window is larger than grab and they can kill Nana out of it, its terrifying. Could be Im doing something else wrong though.
 
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