Q&A Gameplay Q&A and General Discussion Thread

[Nu~]

So this happened. Stage spiking with ledge getup attack. Potentially useful? Another example of Corrin being a wacky unfinished character? You decide.

The entire cast can do this actually

 

[Skitrel]

So this happened. Stage spiking with ledge getup attack. Potentially useful? Another example of Corrin being a wacky unfinished character? You decide.

Happens with a lot of characters getup attacks. Some Ganons have gotten consistent at deliberately timing it.

EDIT: Didn't notice pacman's post was on a new page.

 

[KirbyFan20]

So, what is Corrin's up tilt good for, besides juggling?

 

[Nah]

So, what is Corrin's up tilt good for, besides juggling?

It's a pretty good anti-air.

 

[WondrousMoose]

So, what is Corrin's up tilt good for, besides juggling?

Its best use is probably starting/extending strings and combos; it strings into itself at lower percents and will lead into aerials past that.

 

[Skitrel]

So, what is Corrin's up tilt good for, besides juggling?

Also not mentioned above. It covers 100% of a Battlefield platform when stood centrally beneath it. Roll, getup, missed tech, landing, etc, doesn't matter, nowhere is safe as long as your timing is accurate.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Also not mentioned above. It covers 100% of a Battlefield platform when stood centrally beneath it. Roll, getup, missed tech, landing, etc, doesn't matter, nowhere is safe as long as your timing is accurate.

Eh, Usmash does the same thing, and that sweetspot is nasty. The hitbox is smaller, but if you're precise, you're much better off not using Utilt.

 

[Skitrel]

Eh, Usmash does the same thing, and that sweetspot is nasty. The hitbox is smaller, but if you're precise, you're much better off not using Utilt.

Usmash definitely doesn't cover the whole platform. Sure you can execute it to hit on a landing opponent, but in situations where you don't know what option they're going to take I choose the guaranteed hit over the risk. Usmash on platform opponents is reserved for after I've learned or conditioned a tech habit.

 

[KirbyFan20]

It's best use is probably starting/extending strings and combos; it strings into itself at lower percents and will lead into aerials past that.

Also not mentioned above. It covers 100% of a Battlefield platform when stood centrally beneath it. Roll, getup, missed tech, landing, etc, doesn't matter, nowhere is safe as long as your timing is accurate.

Alright, thank you both for the tips. I appreciate it.

 

[Planty]

So I went and tested some moves using bombs and lava walls.

Bair extends Corrin's hurt box very slightly. It's barely noticeable. I was testing it against a lava wall and the wings just passed right through the lava. If I was just a few pixels away from the lava wall is when the Bair would extend the hurt box enough to come into contact with the lava. Bair also hits bombs without hurting Corin. Can confirm it's disjointed. Please no more misinformation on this.
Now we just need to know if it momentum cancels beyond just "feels".

F-smash is a disjoint. Doesn't interact with lava and doesn't hurt Corrin when hitting a bomb.

DL is the same as F-smash. Curiously, you could pin into the lava wall with no consequences.

So can someone explain if Bair has a sweet spot?

 

[OceloT42]

I seem to be getting a lot of kills with tippered DL, but I still end up hanging on stage while the opponent zooms off to his/her/its death.
Can someone explain?

 

[Skitrel]

Now we just need to know if it momentum cancels beyond just "feels".

My test for this was building a tower of platforms as close together as possible.

________
________
________
________

Etc, you get the idea. Jumping to fullhop height will always land on the same platform. Jumping and performing bair would land lower. This for me confirms it's doing something vertical, but I think that it needs a test that includes knockback.

I seem to be getting a lot of kills with tippered DL, but I still end up hanging on stage while the opponent zooms off to his/her/its death.
Can someone explain?

I don't know if there's much to explain, if you clip the very bottom of their hurtbox at their feet you can trigger pin on stage without triggering pin on opponent. This can be done consistently against opponents that are trying to shield IP but have slight shield damage if they do not tilt their shield over their feet.

 

[Zettard]

I do NOT know how much this changes, but I did kill myself a few times(by touching the sideway Blastzones), when I used Bair to recover faster, while with Fair I lived longer.
That's based on the Hurtbox shifting (BSD covered that and since the Fair is the same as Marths[movement-wise]), I guess, but how much earlier do you actually die because of that? Maybe that could help with the Hurtbox thing a bit. I've just been curious, after reading that it's mostly disjointed.

 

[Empyrean]

Since the bumper method turned to be unreliable for testing hurtboxes (only triggered by collision boxes, not sure what the difference is myself but that's what Lavani said so i believe him), i thought of another way to test disjoints. Training mode, 1/4 speed with frame advance, giving Marth a super star so that i can then easily use jab/fsmash while Corrin's lance is still extended. If this doesn't cut it i don't know what will.

Spoiler: Fsmash disjoint, roughly

Corrin gets hit on the very next press of frame advance. The hurtbox ends where the arm would normally end if it weren't covered with the lance. Didn't manage to get a glancing blow with this one but it's a fairly close estimate. The tipper range should be around where the bright star is.

Spoiler: DL disjoint, glancing blow

This one's much clearer. Notice the glancing blow, meaning Marth's jab barely missed the hurtbox. Unlike fsmash, it seems like her arm hurtbox stretches moreso than usual with DL.

 

[Lavani]

The convenient thing is, if you freezeframe on the exact frame kamui gets hit (like you show in the fsmash image) you can see exactly how far her arm is actually extended inside the spear. I haven't seen the phantom hit with the spear hand intact though, that's quite nice to see.

SideB's actual arm looks hilarious.

 

[OceloT42]

Since the bumper method turned to be unreliable for testing hurtboxes (only triggered by collision boxes, not sure what the difference is myself but that's what Lavani said so i believe him), i thought of another way to test disjoints. Training mode, 1/4 speed with frame advance, giving Marth a super star so that i can then easily use jab/fsmash while Corrin's lance is still extended. If this doesn't cut it i don't know what will.

Spoiler: Fsmash disjoint, roughly

Corrin gets hit on the very next press of frame advance. The hurtbox ends where the arm would normally end if it weren't covered with the lance. Didn't manage to get a glancing blow with this one but it's a fairly close estimate. The tipper range should be around where the bright star is.

Spoiler: DL disjoint, glancing blow

This one's much clearer. Notice the glancing blow, meaning Marth's jab barely missed the hurtbox. Unlike fsmash, it seems like her arm hurtbox stretches moreso than usual with DL.

Good job! I see you use Corange, like me.
Another way to test hitbox (I just thought of it, haven't tested it yet) is to maybe go up against jigglypuff's sing? Since hurtbox in sings radius will put the owner to sleep, can't we test it out?

 

[Empyrean]

Good job! I see you use Corange, like me.
Another way to test hitbox (I just thought of it, haven't tested it yet) is to maybe go up against jigglypuff's sing? Since hurtbox in sings radius will put the owner to sleep, can't we test it out?

I actually picked a random color before taking the pics lol, i prefer pink and default Corrin more (orange is good too though, black/grey is trash).

As for the sing test, it could probably work for fsmash but i'm pretty sure it wouldn't work for DL since i don't think we're actually grounded. Even then i used marth because his sword trails are very easy to see.

---

I'll probably take similar pics for jab, bair, dsmash and up-b later today (or in the coming days). Maybe DFS bite and multijab finisher too, but those are harder to do with 1 person. I don't know if these warrant their own thread, so I'll post them here just in case.

 

[WondrousMoose]

I actually picked a random color before taking the pics lol, i prefer pink and default Corrin more (orange is good too though, black/grey is trash).

As for the sing test, it could probably work for fsmash but i'm pretty sure it wouldn't work for DL since i don't think we're actually grounded. Even then i used marth because his sword trails are very easy to see.

---

I'll probably take similar pics for jab, bair, dsmash and up-b later today (or in the coming days). Maybe DFS bite and multijab finisher too, but those are harder to do with 1 person. I don't know if these warrant their own thread, so I'll post them here just in case.

I'd say the hitbox data definitely deserves its own thread. Corrin thrives on disjoint, so it would be invaluable to know just how much of each attack is safe. It would also be one of the first data threads on here since her release, which would be a huge relief; I'm tired of the useless things people are posting now...

 

[Halcy0n]

On the topic of range how big is the hitbox of Corrin's counter?

 

[Lavani]

On the topic of range how big is the hitbox of Corrin's counter?

Roughly:

 

[Planty]

On the topic of range how big is the hitbox of Corrin's counter?

And I think there's a windbox or... something under the counter that pushes people downwards. Lavani do you know anything about this?

 

[Lavani]

First I've heard of a windbox on it.

I'm not able to replicate this or find anything about it in the data. Only move I know of a windbox on is upB, behind Corrin at takeoff.

 

[Lavani]

Thread moves slow.

Interesting tidbit, while fsmash (and sideB) spear arm has item priority and can be clanked by everything, the Yatogami multihit when charging fsmash is transcendent. Counter Surge is also transcendent, though that shouldn't be surprising.

All the rest of Corrin's attacks have standard priority.

 

[Skitrel]

Thread moves slow.

Interesting tidbit, while fsmash (and sideB) spear arm has item priority and can be clanked by everything, the Yatogami multihit when charging fsmash is transcendent.

Rip Fox/Falco SideB recovery.

 

[Nah]

Have we found any (reliable) kill setups for Corrin yet? The combos thread OP hasn't been updated in a couple of weeks but lists no kill setups, and I'm not about to dig through the whole thread for them.

Especially since when I mean kill setups I mean ones that don't have tiny timing windows or require technical inputs or crazy shenanigans and work on actual people and not just on training dummies.

 

[Skitrel]

Have we found any (reliable) kill setups for Corrin yet? The combos thread OP hasn't been updated in a couple of weeks but lists no kill setups, and I'm not about to dig through the whole thread for them.

Especially since when I mean kill setups I mean ones that don't have tiny timing windows or require technical inputs or crazy shenanigans and work on actual people and not just on training dummies.

Fair>uair is probably about the most reliable thing you can get that requires no real skill and has relative safety.

Reverse hit of nair combos into almost everything at higher percents too, and combos into itself at lower percents.

DFS>DLtipper

DFS>rarBair

Ledge trump>Bair is true if you're fast.

Uthrow at 105-150% depending on your rage level.

In general I think most Corrins are killing with just uair or tippers from DL/IP/Fsmash though. I'm a particular fan of how safe pivot and kara fsmash are.

 

[Opana]

A pretty easy kill I like involves dair->tipper side b. Sets up a tech chase.

Double jab to buffered turnaround tipper dsmash is pretty easy and effective too, especially if they attempt to buffer shield and air dodge.

 

[Ingoro]

Guys, I've managed to escape some multihit moves over the course of this past weekend using Dair while being combo'd, could anyone who's more technical than I am perhaps look into it? It felt like I escaped certain options quite fast.

 

[Kingmidas]

Something I noticed is that when hitstun is over but you're still be launched, dair's property of slowing down opposed to cancelled momentum allows it to be a slow spike once the final hit connects. This is situation but it could make for early gimps on overzealous players, onstage it also gets more damage in.

 

[Nah]

Idk if people noticed already or not, but Corrin's basic mobility specs are up on Kurogane Hammer. She has the same fall speed and aerial acceleration as Ike (1.65 and .04), and the same air speed as Robin (1). Along with a run speed of 1.5 and a walk speed of 1.2. So basically a below average run speed and aerial acceleration, and an above average but not quite fastfaller level fall speed, with a literally average air speed.

 

[Lavani]

Dunno if this was already known, but falling nair/fair>DFS is a true combo on most characters in the 45~70% range, and even without a full charge bite it can kill with good stage position.

Guys, I've managed to escape some multihit moves over the course of this past weekend using Dair while being combo'd, could anyone who's more technical than I am perhaps look into it? It felt like I escaped certain options quite fast.

If you're describing what I think you are, this is a thing you can do with all landing hitbox aerials. You can mash it out while stuck in something like a rapid jab where the hits don't combo, and potentially land with it immediately, putting out the landing hitbox frame 1 and interrupting their attack.

 

[Skitrel]

Dunno if this was already known, but falling nair/fair>DFS is a true combo on most characters in the 45~70% range, and even without a full charge bite it can kill with good stage position.

If you're describing what I think you are, this is a thing you can do with all landing hitbox aerials. You can mash it out while stuck in something like a rapid jab where the hits don't combo, and potentially land with it immediately, putting out the landing hitbox frame 1 and interrupting their attack.

Not fully charging the bite results in larger knockback. The charge level just before full charge is stronger. But yes this is also discussed in the combos thread which is worth a read. Haven't seen someone do it in tournament yet because the spacing for fair is really unsafe. I've seen Ryo try for it and flub several times though.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

You guys think we almost covered everything for Kamui? This thread has been pretty inactive for a couple of weeks. I would love it if we found more discoveries. I just wish dair spiked easier and was immediate besides getting a trade with it. Also Kamui's aerials are hard for me to land in a real match due to easy punishes out of shield and that's where a majority of their damage comes from.

 

[Nah]

I do wonder though why an almost fully charged bite has more knockback than a fully charged one. You would think that a full charge would be the strongest in this case.

You guys think we almost covered everything for Kamui?

Given that the character's been out for not quite a month, no. I'm pretty sure that even most of the characters that have been around since launch are not quite 100% fully explored and optimized yet. I'm sure there's plenty more to fiddle around with and discover for Corrin....

 

[Planty]

You guys think we almost covered everything for Kamui?

Given that the character's been out for not quite a month, no. I'm pretty sure that even most of the characters that have been around since launch are not quite 100% fully explored and optimized yet. I'm sure there's plenty more to fiddle around with and discover for Corrin....

Of course there's more. There's always more. But we have covered most of the basics already, though. From now on, we should be moving into the more advanced stuff (Like situational tech, frame traps, advanced matchup analysis, etc.)

Actually, since I brought it up, any good frame traps?

 

[WondrousMoose]

Actually, since I brought it up, any good frame traps?

Unplug their controller. You'll have thousands of frames of advantage.

 

[Skitrel]

Of course there's more. There's always more. But we have covered most of the basics already, though. From now on, we should be moving into the more advanced stuff (Like situational tech, frame traps, advanced matchup analysis, etc.)

Actually, since I brought it up, any good frame traps?

Uair frametraps into nair which combos into fair which can combo into DFS, nair, fair, uair, more..

Aerials all situationally frame trap into DL.

Aerials have situational frametraps into dair.

Everything is aerial and is quite dependent on spacing, the speed at which the characters are moving relative to one another, whether it's engaged while rising or falling and so on.

 

[Lavani]

I do wonder though why an almost fully charged bite has more knockback than a fully charged one. You would think that a full charge would be the strongest in this case.

Higher base knockback, for whatever reason.

Full charge bite becomes stronger than a 17% partial charge around 137% on Sheik, but that's long past kill percent anyway.

Actually, since I brought it up, any good frame traps?

I've been liking bair > b-reverse DFS to trap air dodges. Needs to be slightly higher than Corrin's full jump height to actually have room to reverse your momentum though.

 

[Delzethin]

Not fully charging the bite results in larger knockback. The charge level just before full charge is stronger. But yes this is also discussed in the combos thread which is worth a read. Haven't seen someone do it in tournament yet because the spacing for fair is really unsafe. I've seen Ryo try for it and flub several times though.

Maybe it'd be something to go if you bait them into airdodging as they land?

 

[Skitrel]

Maybe it'd be something to go if you bait them into airdodging as they land?

Yeah probably. Come to think of it there are a lot of times where I'll get nair on someone that's airdodged into the ground to avoid an uair and that could probably be optimised into this fair>DFS.

Will see if I can work out the old habit and in the new. It took way too long to stop dthrowing and using uthrow instead so I expect to kick myself a lot for autopilot and situational muscle memory.