Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[Xeze]

We all have bad days. Don't stress yourself too much over it. Try to figure out what went wrong and the next time it will be better

 

[Aquatics]

it just kinda sucks when you lose a match you shouldn't of. I know i lost and kinda know why, but i can use a lot of reasons justifying why i lost. i lost and need to lab the Mu of falco vs ness. should of went luigi but its in the past haha

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Just keep positive and know there's luck in the game regardless of how skill intensive it is, especially online due to lag

 

[Shaya]

From experience, the more people to play in and around your level that you get to play often, the funner the game is and the funner improving is.

Losing is often frustrating (for me), but at the same time I'm usually pretty glad I lose because it shakes complacency (which forms bad habits/laziness).
But someone has to get first, and someone has to be [tied] last. As long as you get intense moments, have fun and come back again determined you can't really lose.

Remember that playing to get better is a lot more saner a mindset than playing to win.

 

[BlueX]

Since we are discussing losing matches. I will make this post to help on losing and improving. Losing is very frustrating but losing is also a chance to understand why you lost and how you can improve.

Reacting to losing
Like what has been said before... Losing is frustrating but there will be some moments where you might get very salty. If you ever feel really salty or really stressed take a rest. Try to not to take your stress or anger to other players. If you're in a tournament take a seat and relax and also drink some water if you have some. If you don't get salty you should give the player a handshake to show respect and also a way to say GG to the player that you were going against.

Understand why you are losing
Why are you losing? What type of mistakes are you doing that can be easily punished? Ask your self these questions. If you are playing online, save the replays and study them. Look for mistakes and ask your self what other options you could picked to deal with the situation that you were in. Also study videos of Top players like Zero, Vinnie, Nairo. Look for what they are doing that you are not and try to implement them into your playstyle. It is important to learn from better players as you could learn something that could really help you in the future and just improve your skill in general.

Asking for advice
If you can, ask the person that you were playing against for advice and if it is for a certain situation, Ask a detailed question and you be very likely to get a detailed and helpful answer to your question. Like what SleepyK said in his video "Why do you lie about wanting to be good at Super Smash Brothers Melee for the Nintendo Gamecube?" and i will take his example... if you ask mostly simple questions like "How do i deal with Pacman's hydrant" (I made my own horrible question because of that video ) Mostly you would get a very simple answer and often the situation could be different and then you will still don't know what to do because you have not asked that question in very good detail. It is really important that you ask a detailed question.

Study your character
If it is not your skill then it could be your character. There might be many things that you do not know about your character or learn you character and know your moves and how to deal with situations with the character you are playing as. Techniques can also help you in certain situations as well. If you do not know you character very well then you could rely on your skill which is a horrible idea. It is better to know the match up of the character you are playing against.

Motivation
Practicing is important but sometimes you may lack motivation to do it. Sometimes my way to get motivated is to listen to music. The type of music i listen to often makes me motivated or sometimes really hyped or even if i play with people online i get really calm. Do not give up if you lose because you can improve if you stay positive. Keep playing with the player who is better than you whether it is in friendlies or online. Ask the player if they notice any mistakes. I am really bad at this game my self but i know i can improve. I can do it and i want to improve.

I really hope i have helped people with this. If there is anything that people want to add or change then please let me know.

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

Does rage scale with each individual percent after 50% or is it only 50, 100 and 150% rage, and there is n such thing as say 75% rage?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I want to dedicate this topic to that, to help ourselves overcome the issues in our game that we're not sure how to deal with.

I'll start:

- How do you deal with players that come over and Power/Shield Grab you? Characters as fast as Sheik and Captain Falcon are hard to react to.
- Similiarly, how do you do that? I keep trying, and the Shield comes out like half an hour after I actually press the button. Is there something I'm missing?
- I find myself in situations where I simply don't know how to close in the distance between myself and my opponent, and I end up going up and whiffing an attack or a grab, only to get punished and/or outranged. This happens a lot against Ganondorf, of all characters. Against characters like Sheik, they just come over and Grab if I don't approach (which I see coming, but don't really know what to do about it).


This is what I can think of, now. I'm pretty sure I had more in mind, but that's it for now. Let's see how I can help others overcome other, different issues (if I can).

For reference, my mains are Yoshi and Bowser.

 

[Wintropy]

- How do you deal with players that come over and Power/Shield Grab you? Characters as fast as Sheik and Captain Falcon are hard to react to.

First, you need to figure out what beats their move. Grab beats shield, attack beats grab. That's pretty easy.

Next, you want to figure out how to read them. Do they do the same thing in the same context every time? With a fast character that can smother you in an instant, you need to be a step ahead of them. Rather than trying to react, it might be best to beat them before they can even get to you.

Finally, discern what options you have and how to best use them. Sometimes it's best to just spotdodge or roll out of the way rather than fight them head-on.

Best thing to do here is just practice your reaction times and know when, how and why to react. Muscle memory can be very helpful in this case.

- Similiarly, how do you do that? I keep trying, and the Shield comes out like half an hour after I actually press the button. Is there something I'm missing?

Is this online or off? Even in a relatively lag-free wi-fi match, there will inevitably be some degree of input lag. This makes it difficult to powershield effectively and react on time.

Otherwise, you might want to check the kind of controller you're using and make sure it's in good shape. Maybe the button input just isn't registering on the controller itself?

- I find myself in situations where I simply don't know how to close in the distance between myself and my opponent, and I end up going up and whiffing an attack or a grab, only to get punished and/or outranged. This happens a lot against Ganondorf, of all characters. Against characters like Sheik, they just come over and Grab if I don't approach (which I see coming, but don't really know what to do about it).

You need to understand how to play footsies, in that case. Have you spoken to the Bowser and Yoshi boards about how to best make use of their neutral / advantage / disadvantage game?

 

[iDaire]

Hey. This is a huge favor to ask but if I could leave some YouTube videos down here, could you guys tell me what's wrong with the way I'm playing Smash 4? Often times, I ponder what I'm doing wrong and how I'm different from top 100 and the only thing that I find different are reading skills. Literally, the only thing that I find different between me and ZeRo are reading skills. I can't understand. Could you guys, perchance, analyze my gameplay and tell me what's wrong with it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gipPnMQXibY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYpmoPdHAhA
^ First Tournament

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNZlVcu3j3s
^ Third Tournament (I hate Roy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfweYEm1-AU
^ Fourth Tournament

I would really appreciate it if I were to get some feedback either in the comments of the video or here in the SmashBoards. Somewhere. Thanks guys.

 

[Wintropy]

Hey. This is a huge favor to ask but if I could leave some YouTube videos down here, could you guys tell me what's wrong with the way I'm playing Smash 4? Often times, I ponder what I'm doing wrong and how I'm different from top 100 and the only thing that I find different are reading skills. Literally, the only thing that I find different between me and ZeRo are reading skills. I can't understand. Could you guys, perchance, analyze my gameplay and tell me what's wrong with it?

Right off the bat, I can see a glaring problem, and that is that you don't seem to have a dedicated main (or mains, if that's what you're into). Your profile says you main Marth, but I didn't see Marth in these videos - do you play somebody else, or have you just been character-hopping to try and find what fits your playstyle best?

Either way, I'd say the first thing you need to do is find, at most, a handful of characters you can play and stick to them. Dividing your time between several characters without taking the time to optimise a single one is a very unstable foundation to build on.

Which brings me to my next point: character optimisation. You have the basics down, which is good, but I don't see you making use of any character-unique techniques. It's good to have pockets or secondaries for difficult matchups or just to keep things varied, but you will only get so far with a shallow understanding of many character rather than a deep understanding of one or two characters. Pick a character you want to develop and put the effort into optimising them before you move onto others.

Your fundamentals need work. The commentator in one of the matches said it best:

"Play the neutral, let the kill come to you, don't force it."

Too often you got impatient and tried to rush in for the kill. That will get you killed more often than not, especially if you're fighting an opponent who can condition you. If you become predictable and get too hungry for the kill (especially with a non-rushdown character), you're going to get read and you're going to get punished. Be patient. Study everything. Get an idea of how your opponent moves, how they react to certain things, their habits, their weaknesses. I'd recommend you study the concept of footsies and how to play the neutral, because that's a big weakness I can see in your matches.

Gonna use Palutena as an example of what I've just said:

- You don't play footsies. You have a very predictable habit of trying to hit with something (most often dash attack or jab) and then immediately retreating if that doesn't work. You need to practice connecting moves effectively, then consider how you will either follow up (if it hits) or reset to neutral (if it whiffs or you get punished).

- You rely on safe moves even when you have a good opportunity to be a bit risky. Mix it up! I know Palutena isn't exactly rushdown-oriented (ignoring the fact that you it was customs-on), but there's more to the character than just dash attack -> retreat -> dash attack. You had so many good chances to go for a jab, grab, fair, b-air - so many good options that you ignored. I think this is down to you not knowing the character very well in addition to your weakness with footsies, so I'd recommend you get a better idea of the character before you try to get too risky. Know when to take risks and when to play it safe.

- You didn't use Palutena's optimal techniques and combos. For example: if you grab with Palutena, you should d-throw instead of b-throw, because it opens up for so many good followups (i.e. all of her airs). When you use a move or go for a combo, consider how you can follow up from it and what kind of position it will put your opponent in: that will embellish your understanding of both the character's options and the pace of the match, equally vital skills in Smash.

- You don't make good reads. You said this yourself, but it's worth reminding you of. You threw out quite a few empty moves that didn't do anything except put you in a state of potential disadvantage, especially dash attacks and smashes. Know when to use your moves and why you're using them: remember, knowing why is just as important as knowing how in Smash!

This is just a very bare-bones response, but I think I've covered the fundamental problems I can see. I really do think you need to pick a main and practice your fundamentals, because you're gonna need these two things to be in top shape before you can hope to get to Top 100.

Hope it goes well, keep us updated with how you're doing!

 

[iDaire]

Thanks for responding! I do dedicate myself to Robin, TLink, and Ike as of the fourth tournament and I have gotten somewhat decent in reads. I will look up neutral game and footsies as you've told me. Thanks again.

 

[thelustykhajiit]

My win rate is 10% so i'm really bad. I badly need help because its starting to become a habit for me to self destruct because my opponent takes one stock off me while taking like 10 damage. I also dont really have a main because when i think i mained someone i just get my ass whooped and then i just give up on that character. Like please help.

 

[Wintropy]

My win rate is 10% so i'm really bad. I badly need help because its starting to become a habit for me to self destruct because my opponent takes one stock off me while taking like 10 damage. I also dont really have a main because when i think i mained someone i just get my *** whooped and then i just give up on that character. Like please help.

PICK A MAIN.

That's the first thing you need to do. Before you try to get better, you need to have a character that you can stick to. You will inevitably get beaten the first few times if you're not experienced, because you don't know how to play the character. That's fine. You need to persevere in spite of that. Find the character that "clicks" with you and keep playing with them until you know what you're doing. Then practice with that character, get an idea of how they move, what combos and setups they have, do what you can to optimise that character's performance.

I'd say nerves have been getting the better of you. You don't think you can win, so you psych yourself out and self-destruct instead of playing on. That is a very detrimental mindset. I'm going to presume you're new to competitive Smash. That's fine too, everybody has to start somewhere. If that's the case, it can seem scary and intimidating to go and fight "real" people for "real" results. Thing is, For Glory means nothing in the grand scheme of things: there's no forfeit for defeat, you don't win anything for beating the other guy. There's no pressure to do well other than whatever mental pressure you put on yourself. What it is, is a good, safe place to train. If you don't have friends to play with, then use For Glory as your training field to practice your skills, both in terms of your character(s) and fundamentals. If you do have friends you can play with, then I'd strongly recommend you play with them instead, with For Glory as a supplementary training regimen to practice with different people.

Either way, you want to start small. Pick a character, practice with them for a bit, watch videos and read guides, talk to other people who play that character, practice with them, then go out and practice what you've studied in a competitive setting. Practice and experience will make you better, but you have to want to get better and you need to believe you can get better.

 

[Still~Wolf]

My win rate is 10% so i'm really bad. I badly need help because its starting to become a habit for me to self destruct because my opponent takes one stock off me while taking like 10 damage. I also dont really have a main because when i think i mained someone i just get my *** whooped and then i just give up on that character. Like please help.

You just gotta push through the games where you're at a disadvantage. Play carefully and just do your best to reverse it. Save your replays and give 'em to the replay thread for analysis. Pick a main so you can learn faster, as playing the entire roster certainly isn't gonna help you to improve. Even if you lose with a character, you just gotta keep playing, or else you'll never learn your mistakes and improve.

 

[thelustykhajiit]

Thanks and i'm thinking about Marth. I mainly have trouble against fast characters because they combo me to death before i can do something. Mainly its ZSS or Captian falcon i have trouble with.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

With most big-name competitive games like Halo and DOTA running on a 4v4 team basis, how come with the new 8-Player Smash mode in Smash for Wii U this type of competitive play hasn't been attempted? I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I've come up with a possible prototype ruleset that takes some inspiration from MOBA and FPS competitive play.

All players get 3 stock.
Time limit is set to 15 minutes.
Items are banned.
If your tournament wants to allow customs, players may equip 1 equipment only and 1 custom move only.
Team attack is preferred off at this point. (But maybe it's better on? No way to know, this is all brand new.)

Stage List
Neutrals:
Big Battlefield
Pyrosphere
8-Player Omega Stage (Wuhu Island preferred?)
Palutena's Temple
Temple

Counterpicks:
Windy Hill Zone
Town and City
Gaur Plain
Battlefield

This creates an all-new metagame that adds an element of team strategy and communication into a game that's known for fast-paced action and quick thinking. What could come out of a metagame like this? Hopefully this thread can shed some light on this seemingly forgotten new feature.

 

[Ansou]

There are a couple of 4v4 tourneys out there. I don't know how much different you want the meta to be compared to regular 1v1 and 2v2 tourneys but:

• Team attack is usually preferred as ON because it makes the game a lot more strategic and less about having as many hitboxes out as possible. There are also some videos about Team attack in this thread, although I have not watched them myself yet (will do when I have time).
• Your customs clause looks pretty weird honestly. Why should the players be limited to only one custom special and equipment? Shouldn't everyone be allowed to use their preferred moveset? Also, equipment is very difficult to use consistently in tourneys and they are often seen as uncompetitive for a variety of reasons. Some of these reasons don't apply if the players are limited to one piece of equipment, but there are still issues.
• Why did you choose 15 minutes? I don't see a problem with it at all actually, but it differs pretty much from the standard 8 minutes timer I've seen in other rulesets. Admittedly, the timer doesn't matter as much in 4v4 as in 1v1 though because the tourneys will be shorter anyway.

I don't really know which stages are optimal for 4v4... In the 4v4 tourneys we've had in Sweden I think we've only had Big Battlefield as a starter stage and Pyrosphere + Omegas as counterpick because people simply don't want to bother picking stages when there are so many people involved in the picking process.

4v4 tourneys are really interesting in my opinion. The format definitely adds another layer of strategy to the game!

 

[Benoas]

I agree that the customs rule is a bit odd, why would you allow any equipment at all?
What is the reason for only one custom special, surely all on or all off?
Also, why would you have Temple or Palutena's Temple legal?! Temple suffers from one of the worst caves of life in the game and Palutena's Temple has both caves of life and damaging stage hazards.

My ruleset for a 4v4 game would be more like:

• 3 stock
• Time Limit: Probably looking at 10 to 15 minutes testing needs done though
• No Items
• Team attack on

Stagelist:
Honestly this is hard to say testing would definitely need done.
I'm just going to go through all the available stages and comment on them

• Battlefield: Maybe counterpick, seems way too small though

• Big Battlefield: Battlefield but bigger, definitely legal

• Omega Stage: Almost definitely legal, blast zones seem a little tight horizontally to me, but that could be a placebo? Not sure why you suggested Wuhu Island here, it doesnt even seem to be available on 8 player smash?

• Mario Galaxy: Walkoffs

• Mario Circuit (Brawl): Hahaha, no

• Luigi's Mansion: Cave of Life, so probably no

• Kongo Jungle 64: Almost definitely legal

• Bridge of Eldin: Walkoffs

• Temple: Cave of life, the good ol' 300% Clench Trench

• Pyroshere: YASS!, This is pretty much the only situation this stage can be used. Why cant you just give us a stage hazards off button Sakurai?

• Norfair: Worth investigating thanks to the lack of stagehazards

• Yoshi's Island: Probably not

• Great Cave Offensive: Nope

• Lylat: Probably too small

• Pokemon Stadium 2: I think its legal here thanks to no transformations

• Onett: Probaly not due to Walkoffs, cars etc.

• Castle Siege: Doubt it, 1st and 3rd are probably too small, 2nd has walkoffs

• Palutena's Temple: ew

• Town and City: Maybe too small

• Smashville: See above

• Wii fit Studio: Shame about the walkoffs

• Gaur Plain: See above

• Duck Hunt: Seems Alright, if a little small

• 75m: ...no

• Windy Hill Zone: Seems pretty decent

• Dreamland 64: Good if a little small

• Suzaku Castle: Walkoffs

• Peachs Castle 64: Should always be legal

• Hyrule Castle 64: Not sure about this one, tornado and cave of life are minor, but they can still be probalimatic.

• Mario Maker: Too random

I agree that a small stage list would probaly be better for this one

 

[Raijinken]

The 1-custom only rule is nonsense.

That aside, I think 4v4 would be an interesting place to experiment with the idea of character draft order, and/or character banning. Not the least because it would get rid of Sheik just as quickly as G&W+___.

 

[pmart]

4v4 can be really good, but it would need a lot of testing.

About stages there aren't a lot of stuff to think, just test. Battlefield, Pyroshere, Peachs Castle 64 and the Omegas seem enough.
And about the friendly fire, ON for sure. OFF allows a LOT of JUNK play.

But then we need to think what we want from 4v4 games. More team interaction, strategy, another meta, oponents interaction, multiple fights ore few epic ones? There are a lot of ways to go, and we should see what makes more sense for smash.

IMO most e-sports have appeal to the audience for the same reason the sports have:
Skill matters, but not always the best one wins. Killing is not the goal, but the mean for something more important.
Also team interaction and close matches give spectating some emotion, and make the game thrilling to watch.

Thats a lot of stuff, so how i see all of this on things to decide:
Number of stocks
- 3 stocks would make longer matches, meaning that the last minute would be really important.
- 2 stocks would be a balance of time on matches, don't being to extreme on game time and number of matches.
- 1 stocks would make the games really fast, allowing for multiple matches.

Itens:
- No itens always seems like the best choice. But with no itens the goal of the match will always be the kill.
- There are a few itens on LOW that can manage to don't break the game, but i don't know if any would change the match enough to matter considering them. They are - Back Shield, Bunny Hood, Metal Box, Mr. Saturn, Pitfall, Rally-X Flag, Smoke Ball, Team Healer.
- I personally think that only Rally-X Flag on LOW could be cool to watch, mostly because on a 4v4 game it's almost impossible a character be immobile for 3 seconds and win the stock. So a defensive team strategy would appear. It could also be usef with 1 stock matches, as 1 life would be really important.

Character Picking:
- Everyone is free to choose it's own char.
- The loosing team can ban 1 char from the other team.
- A player can't reuse the same char used on a victory (to complicated, but its a option)
- No one can repeat a char (so the audience can see the game), so a character picking process like DOTA's would be needed.
- The loosing team choose 1 char for 1 player of the other team.
...

Since stages aren't as important as characters on a 4v4, i really think we should think on some mechanics for character picking.

What do you guys think? I personally like:
- 1 stock, with Rally-X Flag and The loosing team choose 1 char for 1 player of the other team.
With sets of 3 or 5 games (as 1v1)

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

The 1-equipment, 1-custom rule is supposed to mimic the systems of modern competitive FPS, in which there are "weapons" (the character) and "classes" (grenade, equipment, perk, etc.) And for most situations, customs would be turned off. Again, there is a lot of experimentation that can go into this metagame.

The reason Palutena's Temple was included is that it is an incredibly large map with several open platforms, at the cost of adding a few stage hazards. Regarding Zelda Temple, Cave of Life situations are prevented by the fact that there are 4 players on a team, able to work together to prevent it.

I also considered the "banning characters" idea, where each team bans a certain number of characters each per round. But it might be too cumbersome for average tournaments.

Items being a chance encounter may make this a bit uncompetitive, but then again, Game & Watch, Peach + Luigi have luck mechanics built in. Originally, I considered a few items to be available. These were: Food (no Heart Container/Maxim Tomato), Deku Nut, Pitfall Seed, Mr. Saturn, Team Healer, Fairy Bottle, and Unira. Rally-X Flag makes the game swing heavy, which can be a detriment to some strategies.

 

[Raijinken]

It's a shame 8-player smash isn't compatible with Stamina, that could be hilarious.

Personally, I think customs compare more to selecting your entire loadout freely from your available choices. Restricting them puts an unnatural limit on the synergy many of them have with each other. This isn't the place for the debate, I just think they should be on and unrestricted in every occasion. I don't think much work has been put into researching team synergy with various moves, so I don't think it'd have a big impact one way or another.

I think the Team Healer item would be fun on low, maybe to go with the Flag.

I think our standard "serious competition" is pretty well covered in singles and doubles, so I definitely like the idea of 3v3 or 4v4 incorporating things like select items or character restrictions.

While I support 3 stock for 1v1 and 2v2, though, I think 2 stock is fair for 3v3/4v4. Games will go long enough but not be as swingy as a single stock match (especially because you KNOW G&W is going to appear).

 

[Bill cipher3]

I need help with stage control as rosie and everybody in general I have no idea how to do it and rosie NEEDS it to keep luma alive. and also I need help with pressuring.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I need help with stage control as rosie and everybody in general I have no idea how to do it and rosie NEEDS it to keep luma alive. and also I need help with pressuring.

Go to their boards.

 

[Niche]

I was wondering if there was a character that meets all of these.
Spike, Good aerial game, Good Grab game, Speed, Good aggro game and decent passive game, and a projectile.
Not all of these have to be met, but what character would meet most of these. Thank you to all who respond.

 

[Bill cipher3]

I was wondering if there was a character that meets all of these.
Spike, Good aerial game, Good Grab game, Speed, Good aggro game and decent passive game, and a projectile.
Not all of these have to be met, but what character would meet most of these. Thank you to all who respond.

Cfalcon meets alot of these but not the projectile

 

[BlueX]

I was wondering if there was a character that meets all of these.
Spike, Good aerial game, Good Grab game, Speed, Good aggro game and decent passive game, and a projectile.
Not all of these have to be met, but what character would meet most of these. Thank you to all who respond.

I would say Sonic but i am not sure if he has a spike.

 

[Bill cipher3]

Oh and shiek she is good for everything you want but the spike.

 

[Toxin21]

Im from P.R. And At some point of the match I loose track of what im doing, as in I stop the mixxup
Here are some vids I have

Atm
I main Bowser Jr. And trying to main sonic

https://youtu.be/jQk9gZL23-0
Friendlies

https://youtu.be/Bvbj_nSpj3U
Tourney

 

[Daxter]

Thanks for the help last time guys. I did my best to take on all your advice, but my FG win rate is still only 15%, and I've only won 2 sets on Anther's. I even got a PM saying people are refusing to play against me, because I'm too easy a win. Really got me down; it feels like no matter how hard I try, talent is going to win against effort.

 

[Bill cipher3]

Thanks for the help last time guys. I did my best to take on all your advice, but my FG win rate is still only 15%, and I've only won 2 sets on Anther's. I even got a PM saying people are refusing to play against me, because I'm too easy a win. Really got me down; it feels like no matter how hard I try, talent is going to win against effort.

Well all I can say is get better as your main and learn the match up

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

Hey guys. How do you deal with having more then 2 mains. I've mained , and for a long time now, but recently I have found myself enjoying and a lot as well. Should I keep pursuing all of these characters? Or should I just drop some of them? How should I handle having multiple mains?

Also, I have a habit of grabbing too much. How should I go about fixing this?

 

[Nah]

Thanks for the help last time guys. I did my best to take on all your advice, but my FG win rate is still only 15%, and I've only won 2 sets on Anther's. I even got a PM saying people are refusing to play against me, because I'm too easy a win. Really got me down; it feels like no matter how hard I try, talent is going to win against effort.

Seriously, play me and/or some of the other people down at the Robin boards so we can help you.

Hey guys. How do you deal with having more then 2 mains. I've mained , and for a long time now, but recently I have found myself enjoying and a lot as well. Should I keep pursuing all of these characters? Or should I just drop some of them? How should I handle having multiple mains?

Unless you're a talented player I don't think that you can really main more than 2 or 3 characters and actually do well with all of them, or as well as you could be doing if you just stuck to a couple or few. You're spreading your time and energy a little thin when you main too many characters and that affects how much you can develop your skills with them. Not that you can't play all of them for less serious matches but for your 100% serious play you don't wanna do more than 3 max.

 

[nintendonaut]

Hey guys. How do you deal with having more then 2 mains. I've mained , and for a long time now, but recently I have found myself enjoying and a lot as well. Should I keep pursuing all of these characters? Or should I just drop some of them? How should I handle having multiple mains?

Also, I have a habit of grabbing too much. How should I go about fixing this?

In my experience, every main you have above "1" just hurts you in the long-run. Part of evolving as a player is learning the finer points and advanced tech of your main. If you're dedicating yourself to one main, you can really focus on making that main the best it can be. So when you add another main into the mix, it's like cutting your efficiency by 50%. Pretty drastic.

I main R.O.B., and if I have a character I can call a secondary, it would be ZSS. My ZSS is probably better than a casual one, but I don't think she's anywhere near a competitive level. R.O.B.'s the only character I play competitively, because I put so much time into learning him. Basically the only time I bust out ZSS is in friendlies, but I barely ever lab it out with her or anything.

So, to answer your question--Yeah, I think having "five mains" is a bad idea. At that point I don't think you could even call it "maining" because you're not really dedicated to anyone. I would really crack down and decide who it is that really clicks with you as a player, and then just go ham focusing on that one character. That's just my advice from my experience.

As far as grabbing too much, I'm guilty of it too. R.O.B. really profits off successful grabs, after all, so it's easy to get fishy. It's common to, for example, block an attack with shield and then immediately retaliate by throwing out a grab--Even if the blocked attack ends up leaving the opponent nowhere near grab range. Basically, that's just free damage you just lost. Work on knowing when to punish with a grab (i.e. the opponent lands right next to you) and when to use a more proper out-of-shield option. In R.O.B.'s case, for example, a quick fair out of shield is often a good way to punish when someone's out of grab range.

It's also worth nothing that grabs aren't always the optimal punish when an opponent is right next to you. Work on jump canceling kill moves out of shield when an opponent botches a high lag move right next to you. In R.O.B.'s case, this is U-Smash. In ZSS's case, for example, you would jump cancel her Up-B.

If you just feel like you're fishing for grabs too much (i.e recklessly dash-grabbing and getting punished for it) that can be a hard habit to break. Really focus on developing other approach options. So for example, instead of just dash-grabbing with ZSS all the time because you're greedy for the setups, work on her other approaches such as fast-falling nair, fast-falling bair, and zair. Try to focus on only throwing out grabs when you're fairly certain they will land. Of course, this doesn't mean you can't occasionally throw in the wild card dash-grab or pivot-grab to really catch your opponent off guard, but if you do it too much you'll most certainly get downloaded and punished for it.

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

In my experience, every main you have above "1" just hurts you in the long-run. Part of evolving as a player is learning the finer points and advanced tech of your main. If you're dedicating yourself to one main, you can really focus on making that main the best it can be. So when you add another main into the mix, it's like cutting your efficiency by 50%. Pretty drastic.

I main R.O.B., and if I have a character I can call a secondary, it would be ZSS. My ZSS is probably better than a casual one, but I don't think she's anywhere near a competitive level. R.O.B.'s the only character I play competitively, because I put so much time into learning him. Basically the only time I bust out ZSS is in friendlies, but I barely ever lab it out with her or anything.

So, to answer your question--Yeah, I think having "five mains" is a bad idea. At that point I don't think you could even call it "maining" because you're not really dedicated to anyone. I would really crack down and decide who it is that really clicks with you as a player, and then just go ham focusing on that one character. That's just my advice from my experience.

As far as grabbing too much, I'm guilty of it too. R.O.B. really profits off successful grabs, after all, so it's easy to get fishy. It's common to, for example, block an attack with shield and then immediately retaliate by throwing out a grab--Even if the blocked attack ends up leaving the opponent nowhere near grab range. Basically, that's just free damage you just lost. Work on knowing when to punish with a grab (i.e. the opponent lands right next to you) and when to use a more proper out-of-shield option. In R.O.B.'s case, for example, a quick fair out of shield is often a good way to punish when someone's out of grab range.

It's also worth nothing that grabs aren't always the optimal punish when an opponent is right next to you. Work on jump canceling kill moves out of shield when an opponent botches a high lag move right next to you. In R.O.B.'s case, this is U-Smash. In ZSS's case, for example, you would jump cancel her Up-B.

If you just feel like you're fishing for grabs too much (i.e recklessly dash-grabbing and getting punished for it) that can be a hard habit to break. Really focus on developing other approach options. So for example, instead of just dash-grabbing with ZSS all the time because you're greedy for the setups, work on her other approaches such as fast-falling nair, fast-falling bair, and zair. Try to focus on only throwing out grabs when you're fairly certain they will land. Of course, this doesn't mean you can't occasionally throw in the wild card dash-grab or pivot-grab to really catch your opponent off guard, but if you do it too much you'll most certainly get downloaded and punished for it.

Yeah, I've already decided to drop because nobody likes her and I don't want to be that douche player. I still want to main 2 characters though, for both bad matchups, and I want to have 2 characters. I consider the angels one character, but who should I choose as my other main for bad matchups? or ?

 

[nintendonaut]

Yeah, I've already decided to drop because nobody likes her and I don't want to be that douche player. I still want to main 2 characters though, for both bad matchups, and I want to have 2 characters. I consider the angels one character, but who should I choose as my other main for bad matchups? or ?

ZSS and Mario are both super-solid characters. Really depends on who fits your playstyle. At the very least, I can say that Mario is probably more "bang-for-your-buck." ZSS has a much higher skillcap than Mario, and you can probably profit more by having him as a secondary. That's just my two cents.

 

[Toxin21]

Any suggestions on my vid

 

[Manaphy21]

Yeah, I've already decided to drop because nobody likes her and I don't want to be that douche player. I still want to main 2 characters though, for both bad matchups, and I want to have 2 characters. I consider the angels one character, but who should I choose as my other main for bad matchups? or ?

In my personal opinion, I don't think you should drop Rosalina just because the majority of the community or peoples don't like her. However, as a Rosalina main myself, I can understand why people despise her--coughlumacough--but hating on the person themselves for using her often ticks me off, and I've experience some of that--even though my handle on her is still kind of poor.

I had this one friend that HATES Rosalina, but he also came to have a personal vendetta for people who play her, labeling them as tier-whores. He's gone as far as to try and convince me to drop her because "my playstyle doesn't fit her" when he himself was constantly jumping characters, trying to find one that could easily net him wins--at one point even playing Rosalina as a "fallback" option to regain a lost match.

I think that was one reason Rosalina isn't liked.. The fact that people like him immediately assumed that Rosalina is a character anyone could pick up and instantly win with her.

Yet, In the long run, I guess what I'm getting at here is you shouldn't be driven away from playing her even though she is despised by the way she works. As much as she is a high-tier, just like ZSS and Sheik, she has a very high learning curve, an, in my own experiences, her biggest limitations are Luma itself and her floaty nature, which could cause her to die very early. If you don't know how to use Luma--alive or not--then it's really a hard fight even against your easiest matchups (believe me, I've had a good share of dying to projectile characters...).

But at the end of the day, more power to you to whom you choose to play and main. I'm just preaching in the hopes that people won't be discouraged from playing any character they seem to find interesting and challenging. Many hugs to you, friend, and I hope you have fun finding your characters!

 

[Manaphy21]

Thanks for the help last time guys. I did my best to take on all your advice, but my FG win rate is still only 15%, and I've only won 2 sets on Anther's. I even got a PM saying people are refusing to play against me, because I'm too easy a win. Really got me down; it feels like no matter how hard I try, talent is going to win against effort.

[TLDR Warning! Just expressing some thoughts for you]

Hey, Daxter!

First of all, that's a very upsetting thing to hear.. In my opinion, I don't think they should be sending you a message with regards to your ability to win or how people negatively react to it; instead, they should have offered to help you improve your skills if they've come to notice you struggling to win.

Although, I do have to say that my experiences on Anther's Ladder have sometimes involved opponents getting upset with me either due to lag--despite me warning about it in both my profile AND during the live chat--or because I only practice Rosalina competitively. So in the long run, there's really nothing you can do about Anther's Ladder but just expect that people there will occasionally not appreciate where your skill level stands or how you currently play and view the game. Regardless of this, I still think Anther's Ladder is a great place to train, but I think you just need to be more public about not being as experienced as most people there.

To be completely honest, I myself frequent FG a lot. I usually do so in order to prevent people from complaining about my cruddy internet, but I think thanks to FG, I've been able to handle most characters usually on a basic level--occasionally running into someone that knows said character substantially better and then having almost two hours playing back and forth for practice. When I first picked up Smash 4 immediately after the 3DS launch, I set straight to FG with Pit. Let me tell you that I lost EVERY MATCH for the first month of playing Smash. At first, I found myself laughing at how silly my deaths were, but eventually, I did become bothered at how frequently I lost, so I started looking up guides and How-Tos for Pit, and he slowly became better and I slowly started winning more of my FG matches. After two months playing Pit, I switched over to Rosalina because I was curious why people didn't like her, and let me tell you that IT WAS HELL playing her the first time. I would SD so often, and Luma died a lot, and I developed an awful dash habit because I tried playing her like I played Pit. At the time, I could not fathom why people hated her because I kept dying so early with her than I would with Pit, so I continued to use Pit until one day.. I just suddenly realized I was preferring to play Rosalina more than Pit. Looking back, I guess the difficulty that Rosalina presented to me in playing her was what made me push myself to master her, and to this day, she is my strongest character.

Truth be told, while I do think some people have an easier time learning the mechanics of the game or character, everyone, EVERYONE has started out as a blank sheet in this game--even ZeRo, who sometimes shares his first-timer Smash stories on his Youtube channel. Hell, I've read around the Internet that even Nairo would cry or get emotional if he lost, but over time, he's also gotten better and hasn't given up because he made a goal for himself to improve no matter how hard it was. Now, he's even beaten ZeRo!

On the one hand, I've even had moments where I just wanted to give up because, being influenced by my cruddy friend who hates , I felt like I wasn't playing Rosalina correctly or simply did not understand why some things worked and why others didn't. Embarrassingly enough, I've even thrown down my controller in front of my friends because of how frustrated I was whenever I lost. The anger and frustration mainly came from the fact that this one friend of mine constantly expected me to win my matches because I played Rosalina; at the time, I just couldn't do it because, despite knowing her techs and quirks from watching Dabuz and Acethestar3rd, I had little to no hands-on experience of how she worked. I just played her how I thought she COULD be played--which, again, where I tried integrating my playstyle as Pit into her. It was even worse when I saw him play Rosalina because it made me feel like he was spiting me, showing off in a way as if I didn't know what she could do despite my lack of experience on the playing field.

But guess what? I decided to stop playing Rosalina in front of him during friendlies and kept my practice sessions with her away from his sight. Just like with Pit, I took the initiative to learn Rosalina on my own, playing with people on Facebook or Anther's Ladder. Or even just browsing Youtube the entire day just watching How-To videos. I'm not going to lie; I still cried sometimes--of course, in the comfort of my own bedroom--because I would have those very cruddy days where I would consistently lose on FG or lose a matchup that I previously had no trouble getting over. But at least I was now putting the effort to stop crying in front of my friends. Instead, I slowly learned to differentiate between a good, fun day of Smash with my friends and intense labbing and practice at venues or Anther's. By keeping away Rosalina from friendlies between my friends, I wasn't feeling pressured to perform well, and the game became fun again.

At the end of the day, I guess what helped me get through a lot of my ****storming and cryfests for not being "good enough" was actually having someone--or even a community--that understood my want and ambition to get better regardless of any character I played--as well as continuing to have the interest and passion in improving. Yet, I think I've honestly had more fun meeting other players in the competitive scene than trying to be so hardcore at Smash, and it's thanks to them and my very close friend for continuing to inspire me to keep improving. By reaching out making it clear that I want to learn, I was able to meet people that were more than happy to teach me--and endure my constant predictability. I'm still not the best or among the best Rosalina in my home state by any means, but I have seen surprising results for myself so far. And I'm hoping that by the end of college, I can go home and place higher at my home state's venues.

For you, my friend, all I'm really trying to achieve with my long comment is that I hope you don't give up learning your chosen character. I see that you love Robin! In my opinion, Robin is a bit tricky to work with since he or she--whichever palette you use--has quite a bit against his or her favor: her main problem being his or her slow speed and generally relying on very hard reads against the high-tiers. However, if it helps, I suggest watching Excel Mel. Excel Mel, in my opinion, has one of the best Robin handles, and she REALLY demonstrates that she has put A LOT of effort in making her Robin very good. You can see replays of her matches on Youtube, but I doubt she plays anymore because she recently got engaged--at least from what I saw before I closed my Facebook account. Yet, again, I think watching someone playing your character helps you improve your own handle on said character. So go have a looksee!

I also recommend following ZeRo's channel. He has very helpful advice when it comes to playing Smash, both competitively and casually, and his videos are also a source that I go to for cheering up and reassurance. It definitely helps me since I get really discouraged REALLY dang easily. He himself even understands and admits that he has his off-days and can say some pretty stupid things, but he keeps playing Smash because he loves it.

I also highly recommend watching a series of Smash videos called How to Smash, uploaded by SmashCentralOffical. I think this channel does a great job explaining the important fundamentals of the game, and this is where I still come to rewatch the videos in order to see what I can improve in my gameplay. Like with anything besides gaming, it all comes down to the bare fundamentals which will help you improve your skills.

Lastly, I continue to encourage to you try and reach out for help. It's ok to feel stuck, and here on SmashBoards, there's plenty of good folks that I'm sure are more than happy to lend a hand! There's no shame in expressing what you feel you need to work on or just generally ask about something you don't understand about the game. Smash 4 is constantly changing, and the meta is always changing because of new DLC and patches that either buff or nerf characters or completely change an important mechanic in the game--such as the new shield stun. At the end of the day, just remember that Smash is still a game, and don't hesitate to take a break from it if it becomes a bit unhealthy for you!

 

[ozydandias]

Hey everybody. I'm not sure if my question has been answered or not.

I've played since Christmas of last year (as well as all the Smash games). I've slowly been getting better thanks to resources like smashboards, r/smashbros and youtube videos. I still make mistakes but I try and learn from them.

However, I feel like I wouldn't do well in a tournament. Hell, I've done Anthers and got my body rocked. I'm told to get my moves out faster, check frame data for understanding moves, stop rolling and use shield (which is easy and I've done)... all that jazz. It's not discouraging to read that, but it's discouraging that I don't understand it.

I have no idea how to interpret frame data, and I'm not entirely sure how to make my reaction time faster. I'm clueless on how to get my nair out asap, or react fast enough to get that much needed grab in.

Is there any advice on how to read frame data? Or how to make your reaction time better? I want to be competitive, but I feel as if I'm hitting a ceiling. I watch a ton of tournament videos and stuff, but I feel like that's just giving me ideas for combos that I can't accurately do.