Frame Cancel with ZSS

[Dr. Tuen]

If you haven't seen it yet, a new tech has risen! It's... sorta like an L-Cancel? Except nobody knows how it actually works. The conditions seem to be hitting the ground on the same frame as the first hitbox of a hitlaggy move (Falco D-air, Falcon knee, etc). Though some moves that have been shown to have this property don't have a hitlag flag in the data that's been pulled from the game... so it may be universal?

ANYWAYS. ZSS can do this.

http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-cancel.386639/

I'm still working out more significant combo potential outside N-air to D-air, but maybe N-air to dsmash? We'll see!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If you haven't seen it yet, a new tech has risen! It's... sorta like an L-Cancel? Except nobody knows how it actually works. The conditions seem to be hitting the ground on the same frame as the first hitbox of a hitlaggy move (Falco D-air, Falcon knee, etc). Though some moves that have been shown to have this property don't have a hitlag flag in the data that's been pulled from the game... so it may be universal?

ANYWAYS. ZSS can do this.

http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-cancel.386639/

I'm still working out more significant combo potential outside N-air to D-air, but maybe N-air to dsmash? We'll see!

I think, if it works, it will be more useful with the Fairs. Can't test it because it's late. >.<

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I think, if it works, it will be more useful with the Fairs. Can't test it because it's late. >.<

Could be? I'm not sure, I'm pretty inconsistent at it, so my test are going slowly. If it shaves off enough frames, it could make N-air to flip kick more viable. Maybe.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Could be? I'm not sure, I'm pretty inconsistent at it, so my test are going slowly. If it shaves off enough frames, it could make N-air to flip kick more viable. Maybe.

I'd see Nair to UpB being more successful as combo and KO

 

[DeLux]

If I told you "I already figured out something like this was happening about a month ago", would you believe me?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If I told you "I already figured out something like this was happening about a month ago", would you believe me?

Proof?

 

[DeLux]

Proof?

Let's say there's this hidden organization of Top ZSS minds that I bounce ideas off of. Let's also say in this chat I was expressing frustration of something along the lines of, "I hate how ZSS has this spacing and frame perfect links with certain aerials. For example, I can combo a Fast Fall Nair / Fair1 into Boost kick at absurd percents, but I can't combo a retreating Nair/Fair 1 which makes me mad."

But that would mean I'd have to confirm that this sort of organization exists and that's not something I'm willing to do lol

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Let's say there's this hidden organization of Top ZSS minds that I bounce ideas off of. Let's also say in this chat I was expressing frustration of something along the lines of, "I hate how ZSS has this spacing and frame perfect links with certain aerials. For example, I can combo a Fast Fall Nair / Fair1 into Boost kick at absurd percents, but I can't combo a retreating Nair/Fair 1 which makes me mad."

But that would mean I'd have to confirm that this sort of organization exists and that's not something I'm willing to do lol

You and Dakpo in Skype?

 

[David Viran]

With falcos dair it couldn't cancel lag if it Hit sheild. Is it the same way with our nair?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

With falcos dair it couldn't cancel lag if it Hit sheild. Is it the same way with our nair?

Didn't someone in the main thread say it doesn't work on shield?

Okay so far I could make it work with Falcos dAir (easy) Ganondorfs dAir (hard) and ZSSamus' nAir.
I dunno how consistent I could get with this. even Falco took me several tries.

 

[David Viran]

Didn't someone in the main thread say it doesn't work on shield?

Okay so far I could make it work with Falcos dAir (easy) Ganondorfs dAir (hard) and ZSSamus' nAir.
I dunno how consistent I could get with this. even Falco took me several tries.

I didn't see it for zss's nair.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I didn't see it for zss's nair.

I thought this was a general rule.

 

[David Viran]

I didn't know there were already general rules since moves are different and it was just discovered unless you count delux.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I didn't know there were already general rules since moves are different and it was just discovered unless you count delux.

Eh, you're right of course. I assumed it's a general rule because the principle for every attack is the same, meaning it doesn't work on shield with every move because it doesn't work on shield with Falcos dAir.

So what moves could you guys successfully connect?
I put Diddy at 60% and tried nAir > jab which works and nAir > uSpecial and nAir > dSmash with both don't work because they have a too slow startup. Will test them now at lower percents.

Edit: Well that was fast. Diddy at 10% and both dSmash and uSpecial work now.

Another edit: Put Diddy at 80% and could combo into sSpecial and fAir.
fAir works without this anyway but you won't have to run to make it connect.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I think that deserves a new post. I can do it now more or less consistent with 0.3 speed but even after a few dozen tries that seemed correctly executed I couldn't do it on shield.

 

[David Viran]

Up special start up slow. It comes out on frame 4. It might be something else. Also can you nair off of dsmash into another dsmash?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Up special start up slow. It comes out on frame 4. It might be something else. Also can you nair off of dsmash into another dsmash?

No because you need around 70%+ for the dSmash stun to be long enough for a good nAir followup and you need low percent for a dSmash followup after nAir.

 

[David Viran]

Oh darn. Oh well we should look into up air follow ups off of grounded opponents.

 

[pichuthedk]

No because you need around 70%+ for the dSmash stun to be long enough for a good nAir followup and you need low percent for a dSmash followup after nAir.

you referring to rage effecting how long downsmash's stun lasts? I coulda sworn it was their % + how close there were to ZSS ( i.e max range stun VS someone close enough to try and get into her pants).

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

you referring to rage effecting how long downsmash's stun lasts? I coulda sworn it was their % + how close there were to ZSS ( i.e max range stun VS someone close enough to try and get into her pants).

I'm saying what you say, or at least tried to. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[pichuthedk]

That's cool we've already had the discussion on how bad my sentence structuring skills are your better at it then i am so don't worry .

 

[Zelbur]

Does anyone have proof that Dair can frame cancel? Since she floats for a second, is it possible to get a very large window in which to frame cancel?

 

[MOM Samus]

Can we get a list of all her moves that cancel? Was very noticeable when I had like 0 lag after doing a N-air.N-air. Looks like you have to hit the whip right on the ground, and Samus has a slightly different pose.