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Florida Neutral/Counterpicks (updated)

hungrybox

hungrybox

Smash Legend
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
12,203
Location
Orlando, FL (walking distance from the Loop)
F U C K

Pirate Ship

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Norfair

CAN SUCK MY BALLS

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Rainbow Cruise

IS THE DEFINITION OF A COUNTER PICK

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Lylat Cruise

IS NEUTRAL

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

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F U C K

Pirate Ship

Let's take Pirate Ship off the CP list, yeah?
 
[FBC] ESAM

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
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Messages
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Pika?
lol nice HB, but Pirate ship isn't THAT bad. All the hazards are avoidable, water makes it so tether's dont' get gayed. The only real problem i haev is that its ****ing huge so it makes brawl last even LONGER.

Norfair is fine since you can shield the lava wave, and it just adds strategy when the wall lava shows up.

Rainbow Cruise is totally a counterpick. Sure, there are 2 walls. Sure tether recoveries get gimped, but thats what makes it a COUNTERPICK. You dont' need to haev every character even on those stages, it is meant to mess up certain characters while giving some an advantage...if you can't agree with this we might as well only play on the 5 neutrals, but then again lylat cruise messes up some people's recoveries so you can't play on that cuz it gives some characters a disadvantage. Oh no!!
 
AfroQT

AfroQT

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Joined
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Messages
3,970
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Cave of Olmec
I agree with Fenrirs list, maybe take Norfair off because me vs rx and me vs gmoney had alot of running from obstacles instead of fighting.

Pirate ship should stay imo, and rainbow cruise is....meh..maybe it should be added.

All i know is we ALL wont agree on the same thing. So we should settle for something.
 
GDX

GDX

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Orlando, FL
NNID
GameDragonX2
the only thing we need to change is maybe taking pirate ship off. i keep hearing norfair is pretty gay, although i dont play it much so i cant speak for it


...and possibly pokemon stadium 2. i mean, the wind transformations lead to some extraordinarly gay deaths, not to mention it leaves air combat dumb. you slide so ridiculously far on the ice part that ground follow-ups are near impossible, and the treadmills are so fast you have to run just to stay in place
 
Frames

Frames

DI
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
2,248
Location
UCF (Orlando, FL)
I'd probably go with something like this:

Neutrals:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Lylat Cruise
Smashville

Counterpicks:

Pokemon Stadium 1
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Pirate Ship
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Brinstar
Luigi's Mansion
Rainbow Cruise

but that's just me
 
[FBC] ESAM

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
Afro_Thundah said:
Theres no way in hell Zss or olimar can win on rainbow cruise. Its impossible theres no way lol.
Click to expand...
My brother has beaten me plenty of times on this stage. Because of the many platforms, ZSS can space really well...and if you play olimar and can rarely win, BAN IT.
 
AfroQT

AfroQT

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ESAM said:
My brother has beaten me plenty of times on this stage. Because of the many platforms, ZSS can space really well...and if you play olimar and can rarely win, BAN IT.
Click to expand...
That i agree with, i just dont see how ZSS can do well, but i have no first hand experience it was just in theory.

I just ban stages i dont like, works for me.
 
[FBC] ESAM

[FBC] ESAM

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Thank you Afro, maybe people will listen when someone as influential as yourself backs me.
 
Fenrir VII

Fenrir VII

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Sep 9, 2005
Messages
3,506
ok ok ok wow...

Let me just say, the words "BAN IT, IT'S GAY" are not a complete argument for banning a stage. I will completely disregard those posts saying that because they are far too easy to argue again with "BAN IT, IT'S GAY" again...I'm not doing that.


GDX, the wind "gay" kills are fake until proven true. I can't replicate it. post a video of it if you can find it, but I tried and tried and can't make it happen.
This is why I pleaded with people to play on the stage more, first...everybody says the same arguments...including me a while back...and I disagree with them now.


Norfair is a bit hazardous, yes. However, the lava is REALLY easy to deal with...it changes the way you fight, to include making you jump around and zone yourself around the level and control it. If you can land a grab and throw them into the lava, do it...why not? With DI, the lava walls don't kill until around 200%, so I really don't see a problem there. They move so slow that they can easily be avoided...it also actually inhibits camping and zoning gameplay, so for that reason it is a VALUABLE counterpick. The ledge games also help tether chars to not get hogged as much....although it's hard to gay the ledge. My point is: this stage does not interfere with normal gameplay or benefit a single char or a group of characters to make them auto-wins. It simply changes the way you play...and that is not a reason to ban a stage. It has to provide enough disruption or break the game for a certain character.


Cruise was a CP in Melee. No objections there. However, it has been changed to the point of breaking it in Brawl. A list of things wrong with this stage (completely avoiding the "it's bad for tether chars" argument, because that = good CP in my book):

The blocks are hard now... on the surface, this isn't that big of a deal. However, when you get ricochet deaths....or a person literally gets trapped underneath them on one portion...and you have weird jumping issues...it's just bad. "learn the stage and deal with it"...ok. that's a fair enough argument for that.

Wall infinites. The thing that most people aren't getting is that these aren't bad because they're infinites...they're bad because they are the same idea as walk offs...should a character with a wall infinite land a grab or whatever against a wall on RC, you should die if they want you to...as the stage move, so when they have to move, they can throw you past the death line with ease. This was in Melee with Fox...I know. However, there are a LOT of chars who have some sort of wall infinite in Brawl...Ike for one (wtf, I know). So this is bad...

Kirby/MK throw...ok this is just wrong. and insta-death throw? come on. I can't really argue FOR this one...and don't give me "don't get grabbed"....that's an unreasonable statement.

These changes...plus an overall feeling of glitchiness on appearing platforms and such...just take away any sort of fairness the level has.
I do find it interesting that MK players are trying so hard to make this stage legit... : /


Pirate ship...I'm leaving this one alone right now, basically because I don't have any more time....
 
Force

Force

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133
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Orlando, FL SR 426&Tuskawilla
Someone who's hosting a tourney just needs to have an afterparty type deal including all the primary tournament hosters in florida. Then they all should go over the list's questionables (basically the maps that differ from fenrir's list to seibriks) and get kindof a vote for a florida standard. I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that somewhere in between fenrir's list and seibrik's is what we want... Also, Seibrik's been known to play floaty multi-jump characters and he's doing the right thing as a tourney hoster and keeping rainbow cruise off his list so if that's not a showing the map is broken I don't know what is.
 
Finch

Finch

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Tallahassee, FL
In melee even ice climbers could function well on rainbow cruise. In brawl it just makes certain matchups impossible. It is not a legitimate counterpick for multiple reasons stated already. If you have never used a character other than metaknight on it then stfu.
 
GDX

GDX

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GameDragonX2
Force said:
Someone who's hosting a tourney just needs to have an afterparty type deal including all the primary tournament hosters in florida. Then they all should go over the list's questionables (basically the maps that differ from fenrir's list to seibriks) and get kindof a vote for a florida standard. I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that somewhere in between fenrir's list and seibrik's is what we want... Also, Seibrik's been known to play floaty multi-jump characters and he's doing the right thing as a tourney hoster and keeping rainbow cruise off his list so if that's not a showing the map is broken I don't know what is.
Click to expand...
!!!

a wild chris has appeared!
 
McRib

McRib

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Force is awesome, we should totally have a party to discuss this stuff so we don't have to keep babbling about it in this thread.

If not this argument could go on for a very long time.
 
Tommy_G

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Miami, FL
I already got Jungle Japes banned. My next mission is to break Castle Siege. You people aren't going to ***** and complain when I break it, now are you?
 
Fenrir VII

Fenrir VII

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,506
Why are people complaining about us arguing about stages in a thread that was created for that very purpose? I'm confused by that one...

Again, people who do not do research and post intelligently in here will be disregarded. I really don't care if you think FD (or whatever) is gay or not. If you can't intelligently explain yourself (with actual *gasp* words) as to why thus and such stage should be banned / allowed, You will not really matter in this. The Norfair argument Gmoney posted was a good example of an intelligent debate. Just explain yourself people...





Tommy G....please MM me on Castle Siege...I love that stage. : )
 
S

Serpent

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Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
83
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Orland UCF for college, SoVA on breaks
Mansion = MetaKnight counterpick stage. MetaKnight is God tier. He doesn't need such a **** stage for him... Also, if you can tech, matches on Mansion can last a good hour. ;)

I can't believe Pirate Ship is legal down there (I'm heading to Florida for college soon). Castle Siege should be teams only, too much time with walk-offs make easy chain grab gimps.

Everything else is fine. Pokemon Stadium 2 changes the game too much for my taste, but I guess I sort of understand. In SoVA Japes is legal, but I'm against it (as a Snake and G&W I always counterpick there), but I'd be for it being legal in teams.
 
Tommy_G

Tommy_G

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If Pirate Ship is legal as a counter pick, then Jungle Japes should be. The both have water, Pirate Ship has 3 things that can kill you (Ship Spike, Cannon, Launcher thing) a place where it stalls the match into a camp battle, (ship hits the rock), and a low gravity thing so many people are against(I'm guessing since no one like PS2) Jungle Japes should be legal and if you don't like the match up, ban it against that character, like how Gmoney said about Rainbow Cruise and Metaknight.


Fenrir, I don't Money Match. It's just something I don't like doing. I will play you there though. :)
 
Gingerr

Gingerr

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I thought we already decided on a list. You have to go into this knowing that not everyone is going to be happy and/or like all of the stages on the counterpick list. For real, just do one for good and forget about it. People will cry and disagree no matter what.
 
[FBC] ESAM

[FBC] ESAM

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But tommy, the water doesn't kill you as often as JJ's water would. And you can't CG all the way across the ship due to the slants, so you can't CG into water death. Also, you can see all the obstacles on Pirate ship coming while klap trap seems to have no pattern...and its a GUARANTEED death. If you get hit by the fling (launcher) the only way you will die is if you DI left and down, otherwise you will just land in the water. The cannon balls are easy enough to dodge, and the 1/2 gravity isn't for more than 5 seconds so it doesn't effect anything.
 
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