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Floaty Purposes [MEWTWO GENERAL]

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
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Springfield, MA
Fsmash is a great move due to its disjoint -- its KB is ok but not what makes it shine.

Yes hover canceling nair does skip the landing hit, although this can actually be pretty useful.

Dair animation is a little different but he still spins the same way and kicks win the same foot. We just tucked his non-attacking leg and tail out of the hit path so that it's easier to tell what's going on in the animation.

Mewtwo's priority is generally better due to a combination of things
-his hurt boxes are actually tied to his tail properly as previously discussed
-his hitboxes are active earlier and later in the tail attacks, also covering it better
-fair is significantly more disjointed and larger, nair is also slightly larger
-faster shadow ball delivery boosts his effective disjoint

I'm not totally sure about jiggz having more grab range I'll have to look at that bu Mewtwo's JC grab is certainly better.
you interest me greatly shell lol, I did note that his tail moves clank a lot more now. there may be some applicable uses for that. I said "seems like" for a good reason. when does he throws the baby Shadowballs is it the recovery faster as well as the projectile itself being quicker?

also grab ranges are in here. it has been updates since i last read it but puff is still above mewtwo, as is Kirby I think?

http://clashtournaments.com/?p=637


Well, Mewtwo has always been a hard character to use, especially when getting in. What it seems they did was they gave him more ways to get in, but still ways that require reads and creativity. This means that non-Mewtwo mains that play him on stream will make the character seem weaker than he is.

Plus, his Punish game has significantly improved over Melee, and his edgeguarding looks super incredible now just due to the better bair and the hover mechanic (Which can let him do Peach-like edgeguards).
I have tried to avoid making jump the gun conclusions lol. I won't know till i get to play the character. that said I agree with what you said about the streamed players. if nothing else Mewtwo will certainly still have issues with disjoints
 

ItalianStallion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
380
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Springville, CA
One thing I think is important to talk about is his ability to deal with characters that can attack from directly above and in front of Mewtwo. In Melee this was Mewtwo's weakest point, and I think it's important to think hard about it now that Mewtwo is being worked on. From what I can see his utilt covers that area very well. His tail is huge, and the move is quick enough that it appears to cover most of his weak spot. However, I still think Mewtwo is going to have troubles against Puff bairs and Peaching falling fairs. How this new and improved Mewtwo will handle these moves (and others like it) will be instrumental to his success.

You and I couldn't agree more on this. I personally am optimistic that his new hover and teleport will be enough to deal with this. If he can't challenge those moves directly, at least he has more movement options to get away and start again.

EDIT:
I have tried to avoid making jump the gun conclusions lol. I won't know till i get to play the character. that said I agree with what you said about the streamed players. if nothing else Mewtwo will certainly still have issues with disjoints

Disjoints are probably going to still be a concern. But I'm confident Mewtwo mains will do just fine with him. His new tools seem to reward devotion to the character, and creativity. If that's what it takes to make him good, then I'm OK with that.
 

Nguz95

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
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Washington, DC
Creativity. Nothing gets me more excited about a character.

Who thinks confusion will replace his regular grab as the dominant approach (for lack of a better word) grab? I think that hovering for a little to get good positioning, teleporting, and going right into confusion will be deadly. From what I can see Confusion sends your opponent at a very good angle and does not scale that much. Although you will pay if you miss, it's huge range is going to make it a very serious threat. Teleporting and catching them with a reverse confusion is also going to be deadly. I seriously think this combo is going to revolutionize Mewtwo's approach game.
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
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which is one of the possible applications of his longer looking, beefed up tilts; will they clank with disjoints? I look forward to finding out now that Shell has adressed a few of my concerns

EDIT: the Confusion buff looks interesting indeed
 

Nguz95

Smash Lord
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From what I've studied a move's ability to clank is determined by its flags. Basically a move can either clank or it can't. If these new tilts are strong enough to clank with moves that have this flag turned on, they should clank.
 

hamyojo

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
551
Location
DFW
Creativity. Nothing gets me more excited about a character.

Who thinks confusion will replace his regular grab as the dominant approach (for lack of a better word) grab? I think that hovering for a little to get good positioning, teleporting, and going right into confusion will be deadly. From what I can see Confusion sends your opponent at a very good angle and does not scale that much. Although you will pay if you miss, it's huge range is going to make it a very serious threat. Teleporting and catching them with a reverse confusion is also going to be deadly. I seriously think this combo is going to revolutionize Mewtwo's approach game.

But you can't shield grab with that, and it's too slow to tech chase with.
What I wanna see is down throw>confusion

And I can't help but wonder... what if you confusion on a FF at low percent, then jump and grab them with it again. You'll float back to the ground, then pop them up again. Kinda like ZSS? Maybe? Eh, sounds more like an awful, awful Shiek emulation.
 

Nguz95

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I thought it did shield grab. I know it did in Melee. If they changed this, I guess it was to avoid what I was talking about. the move has tons of range, and it comes out around frame 10 (estimation since I don't know how they decided to do this). I watched Professor Pro use it almost exactly as I envisioned to good success.

That idea sounds interesting. I have no idea how that would work. Personally i'd just get a fair string on them. The new float cancel lets you go crazy on those fast fallers.
 

DrinkingFood

Smash Hero
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May 5, 2012
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Is MewTwo's jumpstart still 5 frames?
Also somebody said new and improved ftilt earlier, which is it? Does he have a new one of an improved old one? nvm I forgot they showed it in the turbo video, same old one but appears to reach slightly higher
Also, how does the cancel of the grounded ending animation of teleport compare to canceling the aerial ending animation, window wise? Do you have to wait longer?
 

hamyojo

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I thought it did shield grab. I know it did in Melee. If they changed this, I guess it was to avoid what I was talking about. the move has tons of range, and it comes out around frame 10 (estimation since I don't know how they decided to do this). I watched Professor Pro use it almost exactly as I envisioned to good success.

That idea sounds interesting. I have no idea how that would work. Personally i'd just get a fair string on them. The new float cancel lets you go crazy on those fast fallers.
Oh! Yeah, Vicky's right, I meant you can't do it out of shield. And three frames do make a big difference, even not OOS!

And Drinking... I don't even know. I was just thinking using it like Lucario's, but if Lucario always did a grounded version of the attack that only sent up. Like, he grabs in the air, and drifts down as the animation for the throw goes on, then hits them up.
It's 2 AM, and the character isn't even out yet, I should be in bed.

Also tomorrow I may get to play with him at a Smashfest, anyone want me to try anything in particular?
 

DrinkingFood

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umm i didn't say anything about mewtwo's side-b, I think you meant to respond to someone else
but to clear up the previous conversation, side-b's can't be done OoS regardless of what they do. You'd have to jump or drop your shield or something else first. It would be a remarkably slow option. I'm just glad it still pulls through stages and is no longer punishable on hit, I can't wait to start stage spiking people with it. Any aerial command grab is going to have uses though, such as for beating shields on platforms, so you guys needn't worry about its uses

I am still indescribably hype for this character though, regardless of the different approach i had hoped they would take with him his core gameplay remains intact so I'm going to have lots of fun dancing around people with teleports and wavedashes. Too bad his rolls don't also have a teleporting "animation" as well, then we could get brawl- sheik up in here
 

ItalianStallion

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We better build ourselves an awesome Mewtwo brotherhood in these boards. We should get a creed ready.

Rule 1: Be nice and helpful to new prospective Mewtwo mains.
Rule 2: You are a symbol of your main. Do not be a bad poster and give your brothers a bad reputation.
Rule 3: Teleport.
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
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Feb 7, 2007
Messages
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Side-B does have a higher reward than his normal grab but it's slower to come out (frame 12) than standing grab (Frame 7), has pretty considerable cooldown on whiff, and grabs in front of Mewtwo but not inside. Both options will see a lot of use.

As for Melee Mewtwo vs. Jiggs grab range it is something of a toss up between them in terms of range.. it is worth noting, though, that Mewtwo has much better disjoint on his grab as a result of not needing to lean in, thus it will beat more attacks, in addition to the previous JC Grab superiority I mentioned previously. Overall Mewtwo's is definitely a better grab.
 

hamyojo

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Disclaimer: lots could be wrong, literal first time playing, just trying to get some impressions out there.

Alright, just played Mewtwo for the first time in PM.
In a word... Sleek.
Mewtwo is faster than ever, his combo game is more strong than it's ever been, and executing it all is so satisfying.

I'll admit that when I first watched the trailer I thought a few of his animations looked really jerky, but, turns out, that was ALL just Youtube/video editing. If you were like me and thought his animations were any less than astounding, you were sadly mistaken. On a CRT, with your controller in hands, he flows perfectly! He was meant for this game and engine!

There's just so much to say about him... I guess I'll start with the exciting stuff.
Teleport: Fast, efficient, surprising every time. Mewtwo can dash dance really far away from someone, then teleport in and fair on the back of their shield, the front, or just try to catch all with a nair. Doing so feels very, very good. You can go behind someone and bair them, and that probably got me the most hits, especially with how good bair is now. Teleport is still as good as it ever was off stage, and, just like Melee, I was stealing plenty of cookies. I still only got to play with him for a handful of hours, so I'm not too precise with it yet, but I did get quite a few extended combos with this new tool.
Despite what you may expect, this move doesn't counter zoners in the slightest. Mewtwo has a very, very tough time against Snake, Ivy, and Toon Link type characters, and there's so little he can do about it except wait... like you had to in Melee. You can't ride on teleport to fix match ups, it isn't that good. I would suggest that you do keep a counter pick handy, but these match ups are not impossible at all, just very hard.
Bonus: teleport>confusion is so fun, and they can't even shield it!

Hover/float/Peach thing but better: Floating is so, so odd. This move alone makes Mewtwo2 feel so different than Melee Mewtwo, and easily separates them in my head as two very, very different characters. This is both a very good and very sad thing, but, no matter, I'm happy with the change in feeling. In the small amount of time I didn't get to work on this near as much as I wanted to. It's clear that it's a powerful asset, on stage and off, I just don't have the psychic powers to control it. From the ledge you can hover, then fade away and down and bair whoever's recovering, then bloop your way back up. So easy, so free, at least of what I saw of it... I still don't have that much control. It feels very awkward, and pressing down and Y, then keeping the analog stick in place to float was just... scary. I always held down and messed it up, and was too busy trying to absorb everything else.

Second jump: GOOD NEWS, doing bair/other aerials at the end of your second jump still gives you extra lift! Yaaaayyy

Uair: This move surprised me the most out of everything new for him. I still don't understand it, but I like it. It has more range due to the bigger tail, but there's so much more. It's hit box starts out almost all the way in front of him, and ends up way behind him. It reaches like Falcon's but possibly even farther.
Now, what really got me about this move beyond the amazing range and span of it (and speed, but it's always been fast) is that, kind of like Pikachu's, this tail hit sends in a bunch of different directions. Sometimes forward, sometimes upward. Sadly, I don't know what hits where at this point, but I know that this move is super, super important, and will be even more so in the future.
More info on where it hits from what hitbox would be helpful.

D-smash: Old d-smash was only two active frames, and reached a little bit under the stage. New one has a bigger hit box, I /think/ might be stronger, and, here's the kicker(pun intended), it's practically a sex kick. I wouldn't be surprised if it has like 15 active frames. I traded d-smash with Marth SO many times with it's new duration and range, it blew my mind how I could throw it out and watch the hitbox stay out as it dissipates. It's pretty damn deceptive, honestly, and that makes it all the better.

Confusion: :3 Bringing people under stages is still super easy and fun, got a few kills this way, especially with how it bounces them against the top of the stage due to how it throws now. On stage this move is very interesting. Against some characters it seems like a fair follow up is guaranteed, but I'm not sure. It's faster than I thought it'd be, and sends at a perfect comboing angle. I got a few d-throw>confusion>confusion's.

Disable: Seems to have more range and is faster, but I'm not sure, tech chasing with it is still fun as hell, and M2's new f-throw made grabbing afterwards a not-bad idea!

Shadow Ball: This is the most disappointing thing about Mewtwo2. It's faster, yeah... but when you're hit out of throwing it, you don't get to keep the charge like you used to. And I miss how slow it used to be, it had it's uses at that speed. Least favorite change by far, but I have no room to complain.

Fair: SO MUCH RANGE, SAME AMAZING POWER. Wish the animation for it was a bit more exciting, though, it seems so barren.

Nair: more range makes it an even better and more disjointed off stage moves, and on stage. The new range allows teleport>nair to be a nice option for flying in and wanting to get hits/start pressure. It feels so good to hover>nair.

Bair: It's a really, really good move! He really sticks his tail out there and shakes it around, and with the new tinier tail hitbox it's a lot more safe on shields. Apparently hover cancelled bairs are perfectly safe and very fast/strong.

Jab: So, Mewtwo's original jab was awful. Slow, only one frame, and came out on frame seven. Now... it's fast, stays out way longer, and, like Shiek, can double jab. Jab>jab>rapid jabs is the string IIRC. It is amazing for shield pressure, and I constantly mixed in the jab/jabs with d-tilts, fairs, uairs, nairs, and whatever else I pressured shields with. This jab really caught me off guard and gives Mewtwo's close game a huge boost.

d-tilt: Everyone here should know that the old d-tilt was possibly old M2's best move. New d-tilt is even better, and with MORE range.

f-tilt: same as d-tilt, but now it's so much stronger. I used it to kill spacies off stage with a tail poke, and I think it can work well to start a tech chase/edge guard/or can work as a jab follow up.

u-tilt: Like uair, it hits in all the right directions, and even stronger than before, sweet spots and all, along with even more range. Very, very useful.

u-smash: Not sure what's really changed about it, other than a possible strength increase. It seemed like it was harder to SDI out of, but I'm not sure. It sure caught me out of teleports in some Mewtwo dittos, though...

f-smash: May have more range? Still a powerhouse, great move.

f-throw: I'm not sure how good it truly is. It's way better than what it used to be... but it sends too high to kill off the sides or start much of an edge guard, and is far too week to be a proper killing move. I'm not sure how to use it yet. It sure takes a really long time for the awesome animation to go.

uthrow,dthrow,bthrow: Same, wonderful moves as before. Never change <3

Down taunt is his Melee taunt, and that's the one you can taunt cancel, which sounds really, really funny when done over and over. This is important.

Teleport and hovering doesn't make Mewtwo feel like he doesn't belong in the game, it feels like he was the Mufasa of movement, and was banished by those who weren't as good as he. But now, now he's back, and even more worthy to be what he was always meant to be. Mew2king.
 

ItalianStallion

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Thank you for the write up hamyojo! You made me more excited to play him, if that's possible.

Also, you didn't keep the charge if you were hit out of shadowball throw in Melee as well. Aslo, the slow speed in Melee helped with approaching for sure, but that was when Mewtwo only had a wavedash for approach. Did you try baby shadowball to teleport in to aerial/grab? And the quicker speed is actually probably going to be more beneficial to Mewtwo because it gives him a viable medium to long range KO option like Samus, and that's huge. In Melee, hitting someone with a charged shadowball was something that never really happened due to the speed of the move. Your opponent would always shield it.
 

GeZ

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We better build ourselves an awesome Mewtwo brotherhood in these boards. We should get a creed ready.

Rule 1: Be nice and helpful to new prospective Mewtwo mains.
Rule 2: You are a symbol of your main. Do not be a bad poster and give your brothers a bad reputation.
Rule 3: Teleport.
I'm down as long as Rule 1 isn't misinterpreted. It's great to help new, or learning players, but if they don't have the facility for the character, or are trying to play them in a way another character would benefit from more, don't refrain from informing them of this, as not doing so would be faux "nice" and unhelpful. And I think you forgot the sub set of rule 3: Teleport (hover/ moonwalk/ wavedash/ foxtrot/ charlston).
 

ItalianStallion

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I'm down as long as Rule 1 isn't misinterpreted. It's great to help new, or learning players, but if they don't have the facility for the character, or are trying to play them in a way another character would benefit from more, don't refrain from informing them of this, as not doing so would be faux "nice" and unhelpful. And I think you forgot the sub set of rule 3: Teleport (hover/ moonwalk/ wavedash/ foxtrot/ charlston).
Most definitely. If someone is trying to play Mewtwo like Fox, perhaps we should suggest a different character. Rule 1 basically means be welcoming. When I first got into Melee, the friendliness of the Melee Mewtwo boards was a big reason why he ultimately became my main. So this kind of stuff is super important when building a strong character community.

I am going to have so much fun with his movement tech. In Melee, I would always, even during a match, wavedash to moonwalk excessively. Now with hover, and PMs repeated moonwalk trick, I'm going to be looking so stylish on stage.
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
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Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,042
Disclaimer: lots could be wrong, literal first time playing, just trying to get some impressions out there.

Hover/float/Peach thing but better: (...) It feels very awkward, and pressing down and Y, then keeping the analog stick in place to float was just... scary. I always held down and messed it up, and was too busy trying to absorb everything else.

Uair: This move surprised me the most out of everything new for him. I still don't understand it, but I like it. It has more range due to the bigger tail, but there's so much more. It's hit box starts out almost all the way in front of him, and ends up way behind him. It reaches like Falcon's but possibly even farther.
Now, what really got me about this move beyond the amazing range and span of it (and speed, but it's always been fast) is that, kind of like Pikachu's, this tail hit sends in a bunch of different directions. Sometimes forward, sometimes upward. Sadly, I don't know what hits where at this point, but I know that this move is super, super important, and will be even more so in the future.
More info on where it hits from what hitbox would be helpful.

Shadow Ball: This is the most disappointing thing about Mewtwo2. It's faster, yeah... but when you're hit out of throwing it, you don't get to keep the charge like you used to. And I miss how slow it used to be, it had it's uses at that speed. Least favorite change by far, but I have no room to complain.

Jab: So, Mewtwo's original jab was awful. Slow, only one frame, and came out on frame seven. Now... it's fast, stays out way longer, and, like Shiek, can double jab. Jab>jab>rapid jabs is the string IIRC. It is amazing for shield pressure, and I constantly mixed in the jab/jabs with d-tilts, fairs, uairs, nairs, and whatever else I pressured shields with. This jab really caught me off guard and gives Mewtwo's close game a huge boost.

d-tilt: Everyone here should know that the old d-tilt was possibly old M2's best move. New d-tilt is even better, and with MORE range.

u-smash: Not sure what's really changed about it, other than a possible strength increase. It seemed like it was harder to SDI out of, but I'm not sure. It sure caught me out of teleports in some Mewtwo dittos, though...

f-smash: May have more range? Still a powerhouse, great move.

A few comments or clarifications

Hover input quickly becomes pretty intuitive from my experience. For next-level maneuvers you can maintain full hover directional control by clawing. Hover Cancel retreating Fair/Uair has gobs of priority and safety and is worth mastering.

Uair, iirc, still hits around 70ish degrees all the way around but does less DMG / KB on the back side of the swing. The different angles you saw were likely a product of DI. Reverse Uair will get you follow-ups longer while front Uair gets you edgeguards earlier.

Shadow Ball's melee speed had some small advantages but the current PM stats on nB really fill in his gaping lack of strong aerial KOs. Taj was comboing into a lot of Shadow Ball kills pretty quickly once he picked up PM Mewtwo, it was fun to watch.

Jab: The actual jab 1 attack duration isn't much longer than Melee, maybe 1-2 frames longer. The real advantage is that it has lower endlag, and you can also end his multi-jab loop between any of its individual attacks.

D-tilt's range might be slightly better due to the new model but the actual stats weren't touched iirc

U-smash does have a little lower SDIx. There's also an initial body hitbox that can grab people off the ground.

F-smash has quite a bit more range, yes.
 

Nausicaa

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I'm still under the impression that the tail is what will really make him stand-out over the rest, no matter how many times people tell me otherwise.
Even the little write-ups about it are convincing of this...
Mewtwo is sweet.
When other players saw the trailer, they immediately said this looks like a 'me' character.
They totally know what's up.
Can't wait to pull off my first Up-B > Float backwards > Fair on someone's face to bait something out, and grab them for it.
It's going to be fun.
Can't wait for this... stuff...
 

GeZ

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I'm still under the impression that the tail is what will really make him stand-out over the rest, no matter how many times people tell me otherwise.
Even the little write-ups about it are convincing of this...
Mewtwo is sweet.
When other players saw the trailer, they immediately said this looks like a 'me' character.
They totally know what's up.


Can't wait for this... stuff...
It seems pretty dominant from what I've seen. Though I think there's still something to be said for his other tools. A rule of thumb when I judge characters in a fighting game is what tools they have and how they interact with their opponents tools. It's a bit different in smash but for the most part the top tiers are characters with tools that stand out from the rest (needles, shine, tippers, dominant grabs and techchasing, aerial presence in places most characters have no tools, etc) and I think that a case could be made for Mewtwo's teleport. I'm pretty sure it's one of the only teleports that you can act out of, which is a huge advantage to him. The rest of his moves need to exist to support it, and the new tail will aid it greatly (like god damn, THAT'S GREAT) but the teleport is worth mention for it's utility as a tool no one else has.
The only parallel I can make from my Street Fighter career is Akuma. In each installment of the series he's been a character with the tools of the whole cast, along with some only he possesses. Mewtwo is not like Akuma. Mewtwo more fits Juri in that he has his own set of tools, rather than dominance and possession of all tools, but he has a niche in his one tool (teleport) that no one else has.
I think time will tell whether or not it's something that gels into his game well enough to make him dominant, or his tools just aid it, making it and him simply good.
 

GeZ

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I had forgotten it QQ posted now.

Edit: From getting about a half hour into it so far I've noticed a few things, Mewtwo's U-tilt is an insane platform poke. Really high reaching, covers a large area, stays out for a while, it's insane. Mewtwo's spike must have had priority. I've seen him trade while using it once, out of a whole **** ton of matches. The other times he's thrown it out it's beaten all forms of recovery and harassment CLEAN.
I'll keep updating this post as I watch more so I can post thoughts and prospects on the new Mewtwo.

Mewtwo's Neutral B eats other projectiles. It trucks through them without breaking stride, and the process looks damn cool.
Fair kills. Wolf dead at 154% so pretty impressive.
Shoutouts to Dunsparce :D
 

Nausicaa

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Lucario used to have the best approach in the game with Down-B using an Aura Charge...
But noooooooooooo...
Teleport is a lot different, but the same application exists. ;)
 

\Apples

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Teleport doesn't feel very different at all, the only difference I noticed while playing him is that he just doesn't go into special fall after it at all, which is great, I think that's exactly how it should be. If you do it into the ground, the behavior is a little weird. I didn't get a chance to just sit there and mess with him obviously, as I was playing with people. But sometimes I would teleport to a surface and instantly smash because I flicked the c-stick trying to aerial, other times, nothing would happen at all.

Hover is hella cool but it feels reaaally weird. It's definitely an incredible spacing tool though. Incredible.

LOVE the velocity of the Shadowball now, it's super useful. A fully charged SB moves so quick it practically allows you to make reads from a distance against other zoning characters. (IE, as soon as you see Link pluck a bomb, or Diddy pop a peanut or ZSS do a SH Blaster - you can let it free from across the stage if your reaction is good enough and the SB will just eat through their projectile and punish them. It's really really good, I love it, and I totally did not expect to find that.
 

Rikana

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If you space your teleport perfectly, you land with practically no landing lag.
 

Haloedhero

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I'll admit that when I first watched the trailer I thought a few of his animations looked really jerky, but, turns out, that was ALL just Youtube/video editing. If you were like me and thought his animations were any less than astounding, you were sadly mistaken. On a CRT, with your controller in hands, he flows perfectly! He was meant for this game and engine!
Thank you. I appreciate this more than you can know. Most of the response has been overwhelmingly positive, but I've wondered if some of the negative feedback on the animations might have something to do with the fact that it was a trailer and not just straightforward gameplay.

Put that together with the fact that videos are only 30fps while the animations are intended to be seen at 60fps, and you really can't get an idea of how he looks without trying it yourself.

It's nice to hear that someone was won over after laying eyes on him directly.

Not to divert too much from the gameplay speculation going on, but Mewtwo's animations were ported extremely carefully.



The above is an actual screencap from my desktop of the (at the time) in-progress uthrow animation. Using Melee's debug mode, I was able to not only copy poses with extreme accuracy, but I was able to make sure that he moved exactly the right amount in any direction. Many animations were so exact that his Melee-ported hitboxes fell in exactly the right spots without any extra adjustment. These animations were brought back to life with painstaking accuracy.
 

Rikana

Smash Champion
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
2,125
Mewtwo's body is ready.

For halo to animate.

Animate Mewtwo wearing this (armour). Only this.
Nearrrrr. Farrrrr. Whereverrr you areeeeeeee.
 

hamyojo

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
551
Location
DFW
A few comments or clarifications

Hover input quickly becomes pretty intuitive from my experience. For next-level maneuvers you can maintain full hover directional control by clawing. Hover Cancel retreating Fair/Uair has gobs of priority and safety and is worth mastering.

Uair, iirc, still hits around 70ish degrees all the way around but does less DMG / KB on the back side of the swing. The different angles you saw were likely a product of DI. Reverse Uair will get you follow-ups longer while front Uair gets you edgeguards earlier.

Shadow Ball's melee speed had some small advantages but the current PM stats on nB really fill in his gaping lack of strong aerial KOs. Taj was comboing into a lot of Shadow Ball kills pretty quickly once he picked up PM Mewtwo, it was fun to watch.

Jab: The actual jab 1 attack duration isn't much longer than Melee, maybe 1-2 frames longer. The real advantage is that it has lower endlag, and you can also end his multi-jab loop between any of its individual attacks.

D-tilt's range might be slightly better due to the new model but the actual stats weren't touched iirc

U-smash does have a little lower SDIx. There's also an initial body hitbox that can grab people off the ground.

F-smash has quite a bit more range, yes.[/spoiler]
Thank you!
And hover just takes time to get used to, I'm sure. I play Yoshi in Melee as my main (please don't think I'm too scrubby, last tourny I was in I got top 8 with him!), so I'm used to how DJC mechanics work. Hover.. is not a double jump, and it's just hard to grasp that for me. Oh, and my first main was Mewtwo, so I was used to DJC fair while holding down except during the fair frame.

Huh... I could have sworn uair had more than one hitbox, but thanks for clarifying as much sa you did.

I'm just being a genwunner about Shadow ball. New one's better, but I do miss parts of the old one.

Thanks for helpin' out~
Thank you. I appreciate this more than you can know. Most of the response has been overwhelmingly positive, but I've wondered if some of the negative feedback on the animations might have something to do with the fact that it was a trailer and not just straightforward gameplay.

Put that together with the fact that videos are only 30fps while the animations are intended to be seen at 60fps, and you really can't get an idea of how he looks without trying it yourself.

It's nice to hear that someone was won over after laying eyes on him directly.

Not to divert too much from the gameplay speculation going on, but Mewtwo's animations were ported extremely carefully.



The above is an actual screencap from my desktop of the (at the time) in-progress uthrow animation. Using Melee's debug mode, I was able to not only copy poses with extreme accuracy, but I was able to make sure that he moved exactly the right amount in any direction. Many animations were so exact that his Melee-ported hitboxes fell in exactly the right spots without any extra adjustment. These animations were brought back to life with painstaking accuracy.

No, sir, thank you for your amazing and will-never-be-appreciated-enough work <3<3<3<3<3~
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
2,300
In the trailer, when mewtwo was fighting White Lucario, he had a purple aura on his hand like what Lucario has when he is able to use a supermove.
 

ItalianStallion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
380
Location
Springville, CA
Thank you Haloedhero for your amazing work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mewtwo looks so smooth in his PM iteration.

Who's idea was it to have his eyes glow during certain moves? And did you come up with that epic pose he does when he hovers?
 

hamyojo

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
551
Location
DFW
Thank you Haloedhero for your amazing work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mewtwo looks so smooth in his PM iteration.

Who's idea was it to have his eyes glow during certain moves? And did you come up with that epic pose he does when he hovers?

Eye glows were in Melee.
And that pose is from the movies, but I'll bet he animated it.
 

Rikana

Smash Champion
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
2,125
From what I remembered, Halo created the pose of hover for other intentions but it fit really well with hover; so we just used it. We discussed glowing blue eyes for a while now since its something that's a staple of Mewtwo's when he uses psychic powers.
 

Nausicaa

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
1,485
Location
Here
I thought there were still 4 frames of landing lag...
Maybe 'practically no landing lag' = only 4 frames... which is normal at all heights, not just 'perfectly space', isn't it?
 
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