FinOlimar Q&A Thread! (Check OP before posting)

[asob4]

you go looking to infract me D: lolol jk
hmmm well considering it's at the start of the whistle, would it not be the same? if anything it's one or MAYBE 2 frames from the start

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Whistle lasts for twenty frames. The invincibility goes from frame 2 to 16 actually. So most of the whistle.

 

[DanGR]

Whistle lasts for twenty frames. The invincibility goes from frame 2 to 16 actually. So most of the whistle.

Frame 2. That's great. I use it as a combo breaker against some tilt locks like Sheik's ftilt or Fox's uptilt sometimes. Do you happen to know how long his airdodge lasts?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Frame 2. That's great. I use it as a combo breaker against some tilt locks like Sheik's ftilt or Fox's uptilt sometimes. Do you happen to know how long his airdodge lasts?

39 Frames. Invincibility lasts from 2 to 30. So Whistle lasts about half of the time :D

 

[asob4]

i always knew whistle was better than airdodge :]]
damage means nothing!!!

 

[Dyyne]

So two whistles has a better super armor frames : no super armor frames ratio than one air dodge's invulnerability frames : no invulnerability frames ratio. Also, getting that extra damage from the SA may be a plus, in a way, since the higher the percent, it may be easier to kill oli, like any character, but it also lessens the chance of being gimped.

 

[DanGR]

I quickly put together this chart showing the airdodge versus the whistle when used consecutively. A black line indicates a new airdodge/whistle. Maybe it'll help a little.

 

[asob4]

that's pretty crazy
WAC spam ftw? lol
i usually whistle -> airdodge so by the looks of this two whistles is better unless avoiding a grab/buffering moves

 

[DanGR]

I usually whistle->airdodge as well. It provides more invincibility/SA frames for a longer duration than consecutive whistles or airdodges. But yeah. If you're at a high enough percent or close enough to getting gimped, then WAC spam is totally better than airdodging.

 

[Fino]

I quickly put together this chart showing the airdodge versus the whistle when used consecutively. A black line indicates a new airdodge/whistle. Maybe it'll help a little.

Should be in my guide on the next update ;D


~Fino


EDIT: sudai you moved my thread.... it's like you're intentionally holding me from ban so you can infract me sooner -_-!

 

[Dyyne]

Oh, I calculated wrong lol. Two Whistles is worse than one airdodge, so your gunna need to have good timing to lang one. Although perhaps 2 whistles could be better, since although there are more lag frames, they are in smaller chunks, so it would be harder to hit oli in between them I guess.

 

[DanGR]

Oh, I calculated wrong lol. Two Whistles is worse than one airdodge, so your gunna need to have good timing to lang one. Although perhaps 2 whistles could be better, since although there are more lag frames, they are in smaller chunks, so it would be harder to hit oli in between them I guess.

That's sort of what I was thinking. It's much easier to bait and time a hit on an airdodging Oli than one that's spamming the whistle. That's the only reason it's better when you have a chance to die from an attack.

 

[Emperor Time]

How do you do the superjump?

 

[KBM]

How do you do the superjump?

If Fino gives you a link to it, it's a rickroll.

I don't think there is one.

If there is, I'ma just leave these boards and become a monk or something.

 

[Emperor Time]

That *******....thanks for telling me.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

That *******....thanks for telling me.

do you know how to shy guy cancel? you'll need to know how to do that first

 

[asob4]

fino's vid on SGC is a great informational tool

 

[jog]

its late so don't mind me if this is a dumb thought but would norfair and brinstar be **** stages for olimar? since he wouldn't be getting gimped much because of the lava/acid. plus on norfair there's so many ledges he could tether and when he has the higher ground he could camp like a mad man.

alsooo does anyone like my sig? its like my first real one i made

 

[RichBrown]

Seriously I swear I keep wavebouncing the whistle by accident is this possible or am I trippin I'm ********

 

[DtJ Hilt]

its late so don't mind me if this is a dumb thought but would norfair and brinstar be **** stages for olimar? since he wouldn't be getting gimped much because of the lava/acid. plus on norfair there's so many ledges he could tether and when he has the higher ground he could camp like a mad man.

alsooo does anyone like my sig? its like my first real one i made

Olimar isnt really an aerial character. Norfair and Brinstar are aerial stages (especially norfair...)

Honestly I'd rather play at frigate than norfair... or japes. The fact that it gives you that man ledges isnt a really big deal. You have to think of how olimar plays, and apply it to that stage. doesnt really work. Pivot grab once and you're already at the end of the platform.... >.>

brinstar isnt as bad though, but i still dont prefer it. Against characters like luigi/DK/Kirby that really excel at that stage, it's a pain. But I havent played on the stage enough to know much about it. But if it's because of the acid that you think it's great, pirate ship would be better

 

[jog]

ahh yes pirate ship. i just didn't really think of that one because of the massive amount of pikmin that die in the water so you'll have to be plucking like a mother. but plucking a lot of pikmin is better then death

 

[Dyyne]

Hilt, I completely disagree. Firstly, brinstar is not that good of an oli level, since uneven terrain ****s up fsmash, there's little room to camp, and that one part on the bottom, with the things that you can attack to break the stage, can **** up the pikmin. Secondly, why do you think frigate is better than norfair? Or even that great at all? It's like other levels, but worse with the ledgeless side and all. Its other attributes, other stages have that, probably in a better form. Also, when it flips to 2 ledges, the slopes **** up fsmash and pikmin toss (although it's good for grab, I spose, but it doesn't balance out).

Norfair is a good stage if you play it right. Oli can play other ways that just pivot grabbing. Obviously vertical comboing is one of his pluses. If you can camp lower platforms efficiently, you can absolutely wreck most chars. Oli's umash and uair both have amazing priority, and are stupid fast, it isn't too difficult to keep guys above you. Now, you say pivot grabs are bad here, but you are also ignoring the fact that small platforms=Oli's smashes cover almost the whole thing. And, of course, extra edges help a ton. If you get stuck above your opponent, you can use the edges by tethering as a means of getting lower, rather than just jumping down. It's an amazing stage if you play it correctly, and definitely one of my better stages.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I wont say frigate is a good stage for olimar.. or even that it's a 'decent' stage for him. but it's not an "oh my god! I have to ban this stage or i'll lose!" stage.

Alright, the problem isnt that olimar cant grab the ledge in frigate. It's that he cant grab the ledge AND he gets edge guarded. Think about it. If olimar gets off the stage to the point to where he'd have to use his tether recovery, wouldnt the opponent merely grab the ledge? Would an opponent grabbing the edge and olimar trying to tether to frigate not be the same thing, save for the fact that you can uair/purple pikmin toss the opponent off? the problem with the right side is that while you're unable to grab the ledge, they can edge guard you at the same time (extremely troublesome against many characters). So this is the main (and in my opinion the only) problem with frigate. In phase one the platform on the left side is amazing for usmash and aerials. In phase two, the dip works well fighting peach (who also gets gimped by the right side of phase one just as much as oli does). And the platforms that appear on the sides have actually saved me on a number of occasions. not to mention the increase in purples/yellows (what's not awesome about that). It's not a gamebreakingly horrible olimar stage.

Norfair however, I dont like. For some reason I feel the urge to be overly aggressive in norfair. I dont have room to camp. It's just not a stage I prefer.

I'm... not sure if the brinstar statement was directed towards me, but I dont like brinstar xD. It's alright, but again, would rather be CP'd to frigate.

 

[Dyyne]

Just because it isn't an "I'll lose if I don't ban this stage" doesn't mean you shouldn't ban it. I'd say that, brinstar, and japes are all contenders for being banned.

Of course it's a combination of not being able to grab the ledge and edgeguarding, that was kinda implied. How else would they get you in a position like that in the first place if not for edgeguarding. The thing with edges is that you can purple toss/uair to get them of, but it also let's you use mindgames. If the opponent know oli, they may likely get off the edge at the point where if you tethered, it would hit them. Instead, you can wait a bit, they might get off the edge too early, then you can tether. You're much more likely to be gimped on frigate than a level with edges. As for the platform, it isn't better than any other platformed stage, not to mention it forces you to the edge of the stage if that's where you are going to camp, increasing the risk of getting gimped.

I can see where you may be coming from with the dips against peach, but one advantage against a character whom most agree isn't as bad as we originally thought (I've never fought a peach, so I don't know) doesn't make a stage good. There are still better cps against peach than frigate, I'd bet. Also, peach does not get gimped as much as oli on the right side of phase 1, she has far more recovery options/mindgames against most character (probably just as often against mk though). The appearing platforms save everyone, so you can't really include them in an analysis. Purples and yellows.... whatever works for you. And I never said it is gamebreakingly horrible, but it still isn't good and should be considered to be banned.

That's understandable about norfair, everyone has their preferences.

The brinstar comment was not directed towards you, I was just getting my analysis of brinstar out there.


By the way, it's funny how all 3 of the metroid levels are kind of controversial/hotly talked about around here.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Yes, the platform saves everyone as much as it does olimar. But the fact that it CAN save OLIMAR is the main point. It's basically a much better version of the support ghost from Yoshi's Island. You cant say that "because the platform can save either player, it shouldnt be in the analysis". Olimar obviously gets gimped more than most other characters. Thus, the platform will benefit olimar MUCH more than it will most others.

The 33% increase in yellow and purple are for matchup benefits. Good against marth/peach/mk, the first two of which get gimped, not as much, but to an extent, on the right side as well.

Dont get the wrong idea. peach's recover isnt almighty. She sometimes has problems recovering vertically (common knowledge), and frigate can make that worse. However, I wouldnt recommend CPing it against MK. But if I had the choice, while facing mk, to ban Rainbow Cruise or Frigate? I'm banning RC. Fighting Luigi? Definitely banning frigate. Rob? uh... personal preference?

"Other stages that are good against peach"? uhm... what stages? Lylat and Yoshi's (shy guys) are the only ones that come to mind. And those are minor. Luigi's Mansion always gets banned against us. Corneria's getting instabanned by the SBR. I oftentimes just take peach to FD. Room to camp. Dont get gimped that easily. Not really an advantage, but owell.

I've heard from other olimar mains that have spent time playing games on frigate that actually find the stage to work well at times. Not all the time, but in certain matchups. It's not a 'good' stage for olimar, or even a 'decent' stage. But out of the three stages that are usually banned, I'd say frigate is the best of them for us.

 

[Fino]

"Other stages that are good against peach"? uhm... what stages? Lylat and Yoshi's (shy guys) are the only ones that come to mind. And those are minor. Luigi's Mansion always gets banned against us. Corneria's getting instabanned by the SBR. I oftentimes just take peach to FD. Room to camp. Dont get gimped that easily. Not really an advantage, but owell.

uhm... what stages? Lylat and Yoshi's (shy guys) are the only ones that come to mind.

Lylat and Yoshi's (shy guys)

Yoshi's (shy guys)

Shy guys!!!

Sorry Dyyne Hilt puts up some strong evidence


~Fino

 

[Pyronic_Star]

so i randomly pop in

i personally like frigate orpheon and halbert

frigate is amazing because of the low ceiling and lets face it.. edge guarding olimar is simple... so lack of an edge on the right side affects the opponent far more then it affects olimar. added to this, the platform goes low at some points, allowing oli to wac his way to saftey and after the transformation you have a good chance of landing on the platform that goes in and out of the stage if you need to. since there is no ledge on the right side... people are normally forced to up-b and free fall allowing for a free upsmash that kills at low percentages due to the low ceiling. the second transformation has a dip in the middle making f-smash more effective when the opponent is in the dip, and it has a large platform making uair very effective in this. most people in md/va bann this stage against me because i use oli so well here

and halbert is good against peach... a dip when fighting peach is amazing due to the fact that one glide height is no longer viable due to oli's f-smash hitting depending on the height... and the platform allows for uair juggles. and a low ceiling = death below 100% from any color majority of the time

when i play peach i take them to frigate or halbert... and i think i can safely say azen's peach is the only one that has a chance to beat me... and i'm currently doubtful of that occuring

 

[hdrevolution123]

OliDI?

Just a quick question. Does Oli's whistle (down-B) stop or decrease momentum during the third or second phase of hitstun? Just like GW's bucket stops his momentum, does Oli's whistle have a useful effect on DI?

 

[Sudai]

Just a quick question. Does Oli's whistle (down-B) stop or decrease momentum during the third or second phase of hitstun? Just like GW's bucket stops his momentum, does Oli's whistle have a useful effect on DI?

No .

 

[hdrevolution123]

Maining Olimar

If I main Olimar right now, will the respected members of this board help me towards becoming a good Oli player? I've read all the stickies and namely the main guide to Oli, the guide to Pikmin and stuff about plucking at various surfaces. I've also peeked at frame data. Could someone introduce me to Olimar now that I've read up on Oli so I can improve with him cos I absolutely dread fighting him with all matchups (against an Oli player). I can see that Oli players can be skilled and have the excellent advantage of having a superb grab game

 

[asob4]

uhh yeah we'll help

pivot grabs and pikmin toss with usmash at the right time
gg

 

[hdrevolution123]

uhh yeah we'll help

pivot grabs and pikmin toss with usmash at the right time
gg

Well that's what make's Oli and Pikmin amazing. Any competitive tips?

 

[asob4]

don't. get. gimped.

there's not really any true advice
just play intelligently and recover properly

 

[hdrevolution123]

don't. get. gimped.

there's not really any true advice
just play intelligently and recover properly

Play intelligently? I feel the matchup discussions are not helping me that much from the impression I've had during matches -_-. I know how to recover- whistle so there's a reduced chance of being gimped and then try to up-B so you get a lift than use the horrible tether

 

[asob4]

olimar really is just about making the right decision
he has all the tools to be great, just gotta use them

as dynamism said, oli is the jiggz of brawl
he's not gonna be top until the end of the game (which might be soon :[)

 

[DtJ Hilt]

you're not gonna get any straight advice from the oli mains >.>

not unless you post a video or something.

i think what skank (asob) said was about as helpful as you're gonna get

 

[Dyyne]

Oli's all about the mindgames son. Toss is for trickin people and to create openings when they freak out, usmash comes out so fast that you can charge it for ****in up their dodging times. Even recovery is a big mindgame...tricking them to get off the edge early so you can tether.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

Or in a sense, play defensively and punish. Spam when needed(pikmin throw or smashes) or grab(what others said), Olimar is the King of Punishing Olimar's ground game makes him a beast, hope that I helped

 

[Fino]

you're not gonna get any straight advice from the oli mains >.>

not unless you post a video or something.

i think what skank (asob) said was about as helpful as you're gonna get

^This kid is smart... listen to him

Olimar takes too much to explain. the guide that we're making is already 18 pages long, single spaced, 11pt font... and we're only about 1/2 way done. Being able to explain the entire mechanics of olimar to the run-of-the-mill player who just picked them up is not only exceedingly difficult, but a waste of time. We're going to say something, and 11 questions will get asked... ect.
If you post a vid, we can help you tighten up your game. Other than that... if you have a specific question, I will be glad to answer it.


~Fino

 

[asob4]

you said listen to hilt... who said listen to me
wtf??? lol