Do you want another patch update?

[SCOAKS5]

Try not to be bias here. Don't say no patch update just because you don't want to risk your main being nerfed, and don't vote yes only in hopes of jigglypuff one day being buffed. Maybe comment your reasoning below?

Edit: I added a third option, because I felt like the other two were too vague.

 

[Swevester]

Don't get me wrong, this is still easily the most balanced Smash yet. If the game WERE to stop production on patch updates, then okay. But if it were possible to just give a few characters just a little more, that'd be all this game needed and I would never question the balance of this game again.

Notable characters that are so close, yet so far:
and yes,

Outside of character changes, there could be a few universal changes as well. Like maybe the removal of 2-3 more frames on rolls/dodges, or the ability to tech, even if you hit the wall less than 4 frames after being hit.

Edit: Didn't mean to put in there.

 

[Zerp]

Yes, I think there should be a new patch, but no, I don't want it.

On one hand, yes, I feel that the game's balance can definitely be improved in many ways, the Top Tiers are mostly fine imo, but the bottom tiers and low tiers really ought to be buffed. It should by all means happen.

On the other hand, in terms of want, then no. Yeah, it'd probably balance the game more overall, but more likely than not Jigglypuff won't be changed, she hasn't been changed for almost two years. It gets tiring, and I hate having to watch everyone else celebrate the buffs while having to deal with the fact that we haven't gotten anything and we probably never will. It'll improve the game for mostly everyone else, but it'd also give my main even more power-creep to contend with, which isn't very fun either. I want the game to be more balanced, and while there is some merit to a game becoming better even if it only becomes worse and worse for you, it's just unnecessarily painful at this point. I'd rather it stop.

Please keep in mind that I'm not saying that patches are terrible or anything, I think they should continue for the sake of the game as a whole, I just hate how I feel everytime one comes out. If I'm talking for the good of everyone I'd say I'd "want" them to continue, but if I'm just talking for myself and the rest of the Puff mains I'd rather they just end.

 

[William5000000]

Of course I want another patch update, not just because the game is still unbalanced, but because a problem hasn't really been mentioned until now.

Most people seemed to fail to mention this, but the randomness on those Star KOs/Screen KOs and upward Blasts KOs really screw players out of many victories. An example of this is when Ness uses PK Thunder 2 off-stage to hit that opponent, then a Star KO/Screen KO occurs and that character falls to his doom, thus KO'ing himself first and losing the match unfairly. Same with Jigglypuff's Rest off-stage. Another example is when Jigglypuff uses Rest on-stage to score a KO, but the Star KO/Screen KO doesn't occur and that character is severely punished or revenge KO'd. That's very annoying for many players.

So my idea for Patch 1.1.7 is this:

To solve this problem, Star KOs/Screen KOs should only occur for on-stage moves and upward Blast KOs should only occur for off-stage moves. This way, there would be no possible chance for Jigglypuff to get severely punished or revenge KO'd on-stage, and Jigglypuff would not lose in last stock situations, whether Rest scores a KO on-stage or off-stage. Same with Ness, with PK Thunder 2 scoring a KO off-stage. This would make the matches much more smoother, with no unfair wins or losses, as well as unfair punishes.

I even created a thread about this. Nobody seemed to have the guts to do it, so I stepped in.

Here is the link to my thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/star-kos-screen-kos-problem-smash-4-wii-u-3ds.438251/

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Another thing I'd like to see improved for Patch 1.1.7 is the quality on those crowd chants, as well as the crowd chanting for that character 8 times like they did in the previous games. Some of the chants are almost impossible to understand what they're saying when that character is cheered at 100% damage or more, and hearing them chant for that character only 3 times is disappointing.

 

[Swevester]

Of course I want another patch update, not just because the game is still unbalanced, but because a problem hasn't really been mentioned until now. Most people seemed to fail to mention this, but the randomness on those Star KOs/Screen KOs and upward Blasts KOs really screw players out of many victories.

An example of this is when Ness uses PK Thunder 2 off-stage to hit that opponent, then a Star KO/Screen KO occurs and that character falls to his doom first, thus KO'ing himself first and losing the match unfairly. Same with Jigglypuff's Rest off-stage. Another example is when Jigglypuff uses Rest on-stage to score a KO, but the Star KO/Screen KO doesn't occur and that character is severely punished or revenge KO'd. That's very annoying for many players.

So my idea for Patch 1.1.7 is this:

- Off-stage moves for every character force upward Blast KOs (Ness' PK Thunder 2, Jigglypuff's Rest, et cetera).
- On-stage moves (ground/air) for every character force Star KOs/Screen KOs (Jigglypuff's Rest, et cetera).

No unfair losses = everyone happy.

And it's got to be in every stage, even on Training Mode. For some dumb reason, Patch 1.1.5 disabled Screen KOs on Training Mode. If you ask me, that's got to return too.

I even created a thread about this. Nobody seemed to have the guts to do it, so I stepped in.

Here is the link to my thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/star-kos-screen-kos-problem-smash-4-wii-u-3ds.438251/

----------

Another thing I'd like to see improved for Patch 1.1.7 is the quality on those crowd chants, as well as the crowd chanting for that character 8 times like they did in the previous games. Some of the chants are almost impossible to understand what they're saying when that character is cheered at 100% damage or more, and hearing them chant for that character only 3 times is disappointing.

A patch took that out? Didn't know that. Thought it was like that throughout the whole game. I hadn't paid attention

As for crowd chanting, it is kind of disappointing but I'm not really sure if they'd change that. It's like Fox's voice: does anyone like it? Probably not. Will they change it? Nope.

 

[Jeronado]

One last patch would be nice, there's quite a few characters on the lower half of the cast that could use some changes (Falco plz). I think they've done a good job balancing the upper half of the cast so I'd be a bit disappointing if there were any more nerfs.

 

[Wnyke]

Yes, I would like another patch, but while I would like to see some buffs, I wouldn't like everyone achieving Cloud, Ryu or Sheik level of game... so it should be only buffs for the lowest ranked tiers, and honestly no frame data or movement buffs, just damage or hitboxes... along with some nerfs for the top tiers touching their frame data which is what makes them top...

and an universal change in how fast shield recovers, or a penalty for running away, or something like that... but that one is harder so whaterver...

 

[William5000000]

One last patch would be nice, there's quite a few characters on the lower half of the cast that could use some changes (Falco plz). I think they've done a good job balancing the upper half of the cast so I'd be a bit disappointing if there were any more nerfs.

Personally, I'm fine with whatever buffs and nerfs are made for certain characters. What I'm not fine with is the randomness on those Star KOs/Screen KOs and upward Blast KOs. I imagine those who suffered unfair losses because of the randomness on those KOs at the top have been wanting those to be patched, but haven't had the guts to speak up about it. I'm currently the only one to speak up about it. The randomness on those KOs at the top, they need to go. They've been there for far too long, so it's time for Patch 1.1.7 (and hopefully the last patch) to finally patch them. My idea on patching them is already mentioned above.

 

[Frizz]

Disregarding character changes, I'd like to see an upgrade of the current Replay to YouTube feature. Maybe make it a little higher definition and video length? It'd be helpful for those without capture cards like me.

 

[Axel311]

Absolutely. The game has made great strides towards balance but there is no reason to not keep making it better. There's still a lot of improving to do. Cloud and Diddy are really the only 2 characters left I feel are screaming for nerfs, because they have mechanics that let them autowin against most of the cast and very skewed MU spreads in their favor against the rest of the cast as a whole. Other than them I want buffs only. There's still quite a gap between the top 10-15 characters and the rest of the cast. Cloud is quite a problem at low and mid skill levels. Limit camping is super unfun for everyone so I think the game would improve massively from a lag increase to his down B charge and probably a bit more lag on his aerials as Cloud is just too safe IMO becuase of the ridiculous hitboxes combined with the great frame data. Diddy's banana is just too ridiculously dominant in neutral and he just autowins against most the cast because of it. Some kind of nerf to it would be justified IMO. Other than those 2 things, mostly only buffs. Especially to puff and dedede but every character not in the top 15 needs buffs.

 

[Swevester]

Absolutely. The game has made great strides towards balance but there is no reason to not keep making it better. There's still a lot of improving to do. Cloud and Diddy are really the only 2 characters left I feel are screaming for nerfs, because they have other than them I want buffs only. There's still quite a gap between the top 10-15 characters and the rest of the cast. Cloud is quite a problem at low and mid skill levels. Limit camping is super unfun for everyone so I think the game would improve massively from a lag increase to his down B charge and probably a bit more lag on his aerials as Cloud is just too safe IMO becuase of the ridiculous hitboxes combined with the great frame data. Diddy's banana is just too ridiculously dominant in neutral and he just autowins against most the cast because of it. Some kind of nerf to it would be justified IMO. Other than those 2 things, mostly only buffs. Especially to puff and dedede but every character not in the top 15 needs buffs.

Not that you aren't right about Diddy but I really don't know how it would be possible to not make it over-dominating without removing it altogether. In order for him to not have those autowins, you would have to completely rework how tripping works in the game and in doing that you would unintentionally nerf a lot of other characters that have a reliance on tripping, such as Kirby with his Down Tilt or Wario with his late Dash Attack. It's as if Diddy was programmed to be a top tier. The only other option I see is to reduce it's priority, which would barely effect Diddy's Banana play at all.

 

[Axel311]

Not that you aren't right about Diddy but I really don't know how it would be possible to not make it over-dominating without removing it altogether. In order for him to not have those autowins, you would have to completely rework how tripping works in the game and in doing that you would unintentionally nerf a lot of other characters that have a reliance on tripping, such as Kirby with his Down Tilt or Wario with his late Dash Attack. It's as if Diddy was programmed to be a top tier. The only other option I see is to reduce it's priority, which would barely effect Diddy's Banana play at all.

I disagree. They could do a lot of things, just some ideas -

- Add more end lag to the down B banana pull to make getting bananas out more difficult, and banana pull more punishable and risky in general
- Add more end lag to the end of the banana throw animation so the timing to get followups is tighter
- Reduce rewards from banana confirms. They could reduce his throw combo damage further - some of his aerials and base throw.
- Put a limit on how often bananas can be pulled, i.e. make it so diddy can't pull out a banana until x amount of time after the prior one disappears

I could probably think of more, but there's a few ideas. Diddy's mechanic is definitely one that can be balanced.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I would kind of like seeing a new patch, yes. However, some things I'd like to see are more realistic than others. Buffing Zelda to the point of making her useful honestly looks like wishful thinking at this point.
But something more realistic maybe would be wishing for a Marcina buff, even if slight. Maybe veering more towards Lucina so people finally lose the notion Marth is somehow just a straight upgrade over her.

 

[Samuelwisebaggins]

I agree star/screen KOS need to get fixed, though I have a different solution. Make the character considered KO'd immediately instead of after the animation is complete. To make sure doesn't get punished for a rest kill, take like a second off its ending. There's really no reason not to, she needs huge buffs anyways.

Also, add an option to disable smash attacks outside of the c-stick. And remove random un-techables.

As for actual game balance, just buff the lower half of the cast. I don't think we need nerfs at this point.

 

[KirbCider]

To be honest it doesn't matter much to me and I'd be okay with either outcome.

If a new patch comes out, good. If one doesn't, well that's fine too. If there happened to be a new update I'd probably rather see improvements in certain modes or overall rather than just characters themselves. It'd probably be nice to get some buffs here and there for characters that really need them; however I kind of feel like this is as balanced as it's gonna get and we don't need to have more.

 

[Swevester]

I disagree. They could do a lot of things, just some ideas -

- Add more end lag to the down B banana pull to make getting bananas out more difficult, and banana pull more punishable and risky in general
- Add more end lag to the end of the banana throw animation so the timing to get followups is tighter
- Reduce rewards from banana confirms. They could reduce his throw combo damage further - some of his aerials and base throw.
- Put a limit on how often bananas can be pulled, i.e. make it so diddy can't pull out a banana until x amount of time after the prior one disappears

I could probably think of more, but there's a few ideas. Diddy's mechanic is definitely one that can be balanced.

The first two options would only make it more frustrating to do and would essentially be like the Sheik's Needle Storm range nerf: camping and spamming with it isn't as easy but it is still an overly-effective tool that dominates how they play. Nerfing his other features just to hinder this one is an unconditional nerf to the character in general, not the Banana. The last one makes some sense, though.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Oh, most definitely. There are still a lot of characters in need of buffs and a few in need of nerfs. It could probably be done in two patches, but I doubt we're even going to get one.

I disagree. They could do a lot of things, just some ideas -

- Add more end lag to the down B banana pull to make getting bananas out more difficult, and banana pull more punishable and risky in general
- Add more end lag to the end of the banana throw animation so the timing to get followups is tighter
- Reduce rewards from banana confirms. They could reduce his throw combo damage further - some of his aerials and base throw.
- Put a limit on how often bananas can be pulled, i.e. make it so diddy can't pull out a banana until x amount of time after the prior one disappears

I could probably think of more, but there's a few ideas. Diddy's mechanic is definitely one that can be balanced.

I think all Diddy needs is his down tilt to not be one of the best moves in the game.

 

[jigglesthepuff]

i know its been oversaid
i know it probably will never happen
i know i seem whiny
but i just want jigglypuff buffs

 

[William5000000]

I agree star/screen KOS need to get fixed, though I have a different solution. Make the character considered KO'd immediately instead of after the animation is complete. To make sure doesn't get punished for a rest kill, take like a second off its ending. There's really no reason not to, she needs huge buffs anyways.

Also, add an option to disable smash attacks outside of the c-stick. And remove random un-techables.

As for actual game balance, just buff the lower half of the cast. I don't think we need nerfs at this point.

There's a good reason why I suggested off-stage moves to force upward Blast KOs and on-stage moves (ground/air) to force Star KOs/Screen KOs. There are certain others who may want to do certain challenges that involve Star KOs/Screen KOs only, even on the last stock, no matter how weird or stupid they are. Yes, I'm actually thinking of certain others too.

I don't know about anyone else, but I actually did a challenge (a weird one) that involved a Star KO on the last stock. That was actually part of my goal. The one I'm referring to is my 999% match/goal on certain characters on my list.

I don't like posting weird challenges on this thread (and others) because I think they're embarrassing. But for this one, I'll make an exception.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCBC07o1r5I
Watch at 13:25, and don't forget to read the description too.

Even though I did this challenge, I want to do this for every "Smash" game. I was planning on doing the same for this game too. But because of the randomness on those KOs at the top, it's completely dashed my plans on that. Trying to do that right now would be way too frustrating.

As long as the randomness on those KOs at the top gets fixed for Patch 1.1.7, there won't be any unfair losses. Sure, there might be times where both characters get knocked at the top and are Star KO'd/Screen KO'd at the same time, but that's extremely rare. Same with upward Blast KOs. When you think about it, double KOs in fighting games are extremely rare. So far, I've only seen one video of a match where both characters get Star KO'd/Screen KO'd at the same time.

----------

As far as buffs and nerfs for certain characters as well as fixing others and adding certain options and features, I'm fine with whatever happens for Patch 1.1.7 as long as the biggest problem with the matches gets fixed.

 

[Ulk]

True balance cannot be achieved. No matter how many patches they make, no matter how long they would have worked on the game before releasing it, it's simply impossible. Characters will never have equal MUs and viability. Balance is like full employment. It's a goal you strive for, even if it can never be achieved in its entirety. So yes, every patch helps and we can't get enough patches. There will never be a point where the game is fully balanced, but we should still want to get it as balanced as possible. So patch 1.1.7, as well as any following patch is appreciated from my side. The more the better.

 

[FalconSoup]

Sure, I'd like another patch, but I'd be fine if there wasn't one, too. If anything, I'd just like the lower tiers to receive a little more buffs. This Smash game is very balanced, and I'm happy that it is. However, I certainly wouldn't mind it having a better balance, no matter how small!

 

[Matt11111]

I think as far as balancing goes, this game has done a really good job. Any character is fantastic for casual play and most are good for competitive play. Sure, some things here and there could be tweaked. For one, can somebody please explain why wasn't changed at all? I still like to use her casually. (Jiggs and Game and Watch are, my friends and I think, two of the biggest troll characters in the game. BAM, 9. BAM, Rest. BAM, a third player thrown into the torture that is a Jigglypuff and a Game and Watch on the same screen. You lose.

But, if they do release another patch, I've saved a TON of replays from 1.1.6, and there's no way I'm uploading those anywhere in time.

 

[DarkAuraful]

Another update is always welcomed. But only to focus on buffing the characters who are underpowered. Even if it doesn't happen for the next patch hypothetically, it'd still add to the balance to the game. So far, the balance team has done a really good job with the balance of the game.

 

[Archimedes]

If it buffs then yes another patch please

 

[Tino]

I don't care, although I get tired of it.

 

[Axel311]

I don't care, although I get tired of it.

I just wish Nintendo would be more transparent about it. Tell us if they plan more patches or not, what their end goal for balancing is, what characters they're "done" with, and what characters they plan to buff or nerf in the future. I also am tired of waiting for buffs for certain characters, or being resistant to pick up certain top tier characters due to potential nerf concerns. But nintendo won't even release patch notes so fat chance they'll ever tell us anything worthwhile about balance plans in the future.

 

[Appe3]

One thing. Please add a fast forward feature for the replays. PLEASE

 

[Frihetsanka]

Assuming we get at least two more patches:

I'd like to see some nerfs for the top 4 characters with the best results, ie Diddy Kong, Sheik, Cloud, and Sonic. I'd also like to see buffs for, say, the bottom 20 or so.

If we just get one more patch, it might be a good idea to slightly nerf some characters outside of top 4 as well, so they don't end up dominating after the top 4 are nerfed. Then again, perhaps nerfing the top 4 would be enough?

 

[Garo]

Yes, though it's seeming less likely by the day. I think this is the longest stretch Smash 4 has been without a patch.

Personally, I'd like at least ,,,and to be nerfed, while ,,,,,,andcould use some buffs. There are probably others, but these are the ones I personally feel have some problematic things that make them too strong/weak or just cause unnecessary problems.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Personally, I'd like at least, [...]nerfed [...]

Why? Corrin isn't even top 15 based on results, and I don't think I've seen anyone even consider Corrin top 10 (aside from ZeRo, who put Corrin at #10).

 

[Garo]

Why? Corrin isn't even top 15 based on results, and I don't think I've seen anyone even consider Corrin top 10 (aside from ZeRo, who put Corrin at #10).

It's mostly just that I feel Dragon Lunge is too good. It's fast, versatile, kills and is very difficult to punish for many characters. I wouldn't really have a problem with the first 3 without the 4th. His Up Air also kills a little too early for my liking, but that's whatever.

That said, Corrin's the only one I listed where I considered my own level of play (mid I guess) more than high level play.

 

[Alexander1583]

I would love it if the next patch buffed characters like jiggs, falco, lucina etc...

 

[Mythzotick]

Only if they plan on buffing the low and bottom tier characters and slightly nerfing some of the remaining op moves. I'm still kind of irritated with patch 1.1.6 because they only changed 1 character and that was it. I had a bunch of replays that I really liked and I had to delete them just because they had to address the Bayonetta situation which was completely justifiable, but they didn't even bother to buff the characters that have been at the bottom for quite some time now and have not once received any buff since the game's release such as Jigglypuff and King Dedede.

 

[Zmac122]

Yes, though it's seeming less likely by the day. I think this is the longest stretch Smash 4 has been without a patch.

Personally, I'd like at least ,,,and to be nerfed, while ,,,,,,andcould use some buffs. There are probably others, but these are the ones I personally feel have some problematic things that make them too strong/weak or just cause unnecessary problems.

You have too many mains. I dont think you know the definition of main and secondary. LMFAO

 

[TurboLink]

Yes, I'd like a viable Link for once along with other characters. I won't wait much longer or until the theoretical Smash 5 though.

 

[Frihetsanka]

You have too many mains. I dont think you know the definition of main and secondary. LMFAO

Where did he say those were his mains and secondaries?

I'd still like to see a patch though, with some slight nerfs for the top 4 and some slight to moderate buffs for, say, bottom 20.

 

[Zmac122]

Where did he say those were his mains and secondaries?

I'd still like to see a patch though, with some slight nerfs for the top 4 and some slight to moderate buffs for, say, bottom 20.

I was talking about this guy ( Mythzotick). Holy hell so many mains. This guys needs some help.

Smash 64 Main: , 2ndaries: , 4 Fun:
Melee Main: , 2ndaries: , 4 Fun:
Brawl Main: , 2ndaries: , 4 Fun:
Sm4sh Main: , 2ndaries: , 4 Fun:

 

[-crump-]

I would love a new balance patch, but ONLY if it's directed solely to characters that are in need of buffs (Jiggs, Ganon, Charizard, Falco, etc).

Nobody needs to be nerfed, high tiers are perfect where they are now.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I was talking about this guy ( Mythzotick). Holy hell so many mains. This guys needs some help.

Smash 64 Main: , 2ndaries: , 4 Fun:
Melee Main: , 2ndaries: , 4 Fun:
Brawl Main: , 2ndaries: , 4 Fun:
Sm4sh Main: , 2ndaries: , 4 Fun:

Having 1 main per game and 2-3 secondaries is bad?

I disagree with the notion that every top tier is fine. Some have like 1 bad matchup, a few even, and the rest positive. That's a bit much.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Considering what Axel311 is saying about Diddy nerfs, it's amazing at how this game would end up without 1.0.6 and 1.0.8 to nerf Diddy (though Sheik could have potentially ended up better with her not yet nerfed Bair that killed off the ledge and more damaging Fair).

Having 1 main per game and 2-3 secondaries is bad?

I disagree with the notion that every top tier is fine. Some have like 1 bad matchup, a few even, and the rest positive. That's a bit much.

I think some of the only things to be nerfed would include Mario's up smash, Diddy's down tilt or Bananas, and Cloud's ridiculous air game.