Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[NintenZ]

Oh please. Mario Maker received more marketing than E3 and if anyone didn't buy Mario Maker because of something that happened 14 years ago then they need to stop playing the victim. Nintendo said they wanted to stay as close to the original SMB release as possible and if you're letting 1 thing outside Nintendo's control that's 14 years old affect your purchase of the game period, it's pathetic. Next you'll tell me kids born on 11 September can't celebrate parties on their birthdays as often either. What happened was tragic, but being that whiney after more than a decade, you need to get the stick out your ***

I agree with you on the second part, but as for the first, it was kind of shoved down our throats and showed off more than any other title for whatever reason.

 

[Schnee117]

I agree with you on the second part, but as for the first, it was kind of shoved down our throats and showed off more than any other title for whatever reason.

Because it's Mario, Nintendo's mascot, and it's his 30th anniversary. That's all there is to it.

 

[NintenZ]

Because it's Mario, Nintendo's mascot, and it's his 30th anniversary. That's all there is to it.

First off, the year of Luigi didn't shove all the Luigi games down our throats, and second, it's not Mario's 30th anniversary, it the 30th anniversary of Super Mario Bros.

 

[Schnee117]

First off, the year of Luigi didn't shove all the Luigi games down our throats, and second, it's not Mario's 30th anniversary, it the 30th anniversary of Super Mario Bros.

I definitely remember Luigi stuff getting shoved down our throats.

 

[Supersmashbrothers.]

First off, the year of Luigi didn't shove all the Luigi games down our throats, and second, it's not Mario's 30th anniversary, it the 30th anniversary of Super Mario Bros.

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction...

 

[NintenZ]

I definitely remember Luigi stuff getting shoved down our throats.

But it wasn't the entire focus, it was a big part of but they didn't put all their time into it, and at the very leat, focused on other things. Whereas this year it's Super Mario Maker, Super Mario Maker, Super Mario Maker, and SUPER MARIO MAKER!!!

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction...

That's not a controdiction.

 

[Schnee117]

But it wasn't the entire focus, it was a big part of but they didn't put all their time into it, and at the very leat, focused on other things. Whereas this year it's Super Mario Maker, Super Mario Maker, Super Mario Maker, and SUPER MARIO MAKER!!!

And that year was "Luigi has a bigger role here!" and "Luigi DLC here!" and "Luigi themed consoles here!" among other things.

 

[GunGunW]

I do wonder why they never celebrate Mario's anniversary on the release date of Donkey Kong since that was inception. I guess they figure that the anniversary for Super Mario Bros. is more important.

And that year was "Luigi has a bigger role here!" and "Luigi DLC here!" and "Luigi themed consoles here!" among other things.

Yeah it got to the point where I was getting annoyed during the year of Luigi.

 

[NintenZ]

And that year was "Luigi has a bigger role here!" and "Luigi DLC here!" and "Luigi themed consoles here!" among other things.

Point taken, Luigi was shoved up our throats too, however this isn't just the year of Super Mario Maker, it's the year of Amiibo too.

 

[Joseppo]

Wow, it's been a long time since I posted here (been pretty busy with college...) so it's good to be back for now.
We really have no info yet, and it's getting reaaally tedious. But, I don't think we're getting into Christmas without a Direct. If we don't get a Direct this month, which I believe is likely, we'll get it next month, because a Direct could help a lot with Christmas sales.

Or that is what I would like to think...

 

[Talpr1]

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction...

Mario first appeared in Donkey Kong in 1981. Super Mario Bros. was released in 1985.

 

[NintenZ]

So the Straw Poll is still going on, are you #TEAMREAL, or #TEAMFAKE?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Just ignore his Smash stuff. Everything else he has is really good.

Here's Sailor Doffy for you:

this will be my new profile pic btw

Great, now we need the other Top Executives as Sailor Senshi! Bring on Sailor Trebol's sexy beard, Sailor Diamante's sexy abs, and Sailor Pica's sexy shoulders.

 

[GreenKirby]

So the Straw Poll is still going on, are you #TEAMREAL, or #TEAMFAKE?

Zilly, I think it's time for you to stop for a bit

Edit: Why on Earth would you thumbs up this post?

 

[NintenZ]

Zilly, I think it's time for you to stop for a bit

Why, I'm on #TEAMFAKE. Besides, it's only open for today.

Edit: I liked the post by mistake.

Double Edit: But still, what you just said was uncalled-for, what's the meaning of this?

 

[Zerp]

So the Straw Poll is still going on, are you #TEAMREAL, or #TEAMFAKE?

#TEAMFAKE
I'm going to be an oddball and say I voted for Dixie and Ganon for the if it's real section. Ganon, if it wasn't for his lack of popularity would honestly be a top contender for DLC character, but since it said "Would have gotten in eventually" it might be about how big the character is in their own series instead of just popularity. I doubt it's real though, which kinda sucks, since Dixie or Ganon would have been nice.

Here's Sailor Doffy for you:

this will be my new profile pic btw

Everywhere I go this picture keeps following me, first the One Piece subreddit, then the BDee thread, and now here o-o. It's clearly a sign from the heavens! Doffy is now a shoo-in :D. (Honestly, I wouldn't even be mad)


Out of curiosity's sake, are there any characters that any of you guys and gals think are dark horses? I personally think Ganon and Dark Matter are, since Ganon and Dark Matter both have history as villains rivaling that of K. Rool and are arguably both from underrepped franchises, the only real big difference here is that K. Rool is a popular candidate, while the other two aren't. I don't expect them to be picked, but I think it's possible that Sakurai may go for them simply because of the amount of history they have, their not likely, but they are possible in my opinion.

 

[Wiley]

I've waited so many days with high hopes that I've become numb and just casually check on autopilot at this point, my hype is in a cocoon.

This direct is possibly going to be one of the most exciting ones for smash to date though, considering they somehow got away with not mentioning one piece of information about the ballot after ending.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm still catching up on pages... but if vaanrose is around to post on why Ganondorf is a proper representation of the character, I would appreciate it.

I, too, was once plagued with inner turmoil and overwhelmingly difficult thoughts when it came to Ganondorf in smash. I was uneasy about the character, his future of growth in the series, and my sense of justice...but then, a voice came along. A wise voice, humble, preaching the word of Sakurai. Yes! Despite my inner demons of confusion, I took a chance and listened to the Gospel of Vaan...and suddenly, all of my [Ganondorf] problems melted away. You, too, can find clarity in your ill minds. Just take a chance and obey.

 

[Sceptile4Smash]

We'll most likely get some sort of a new update for the holidays. Will there be any characters? Maybe.
is pretty much confirmed, he's a popular veteran that didn't deserve to get cut.
= Melee
= Brawl
It only makes sense to make it like this, 2 Melee veterans return and 2 Brawl vets returning as well.
Would be a shocking surprise but Konami and stuff :/
and are not very likely but who knows?
However, for new characters, Sakurai is the one to ultimately decide.
I also think we're getting some new and old stages as DLC as well, we've been getting some every update since June. Not sure what stages to return but I hope it's Spear Pillar from Brawl.

I definitely remember Luigi stuff getting shoved down our throats.

Didn't Iwate once wear a Luigi hat? Lol

 

[Sceptile4Smash]

I've waited so many days with high hopes that I've become numb and just casually check on autopilot at this point, my hype is in a cocoon.

This direct is possibly going to be one of the most exciting ones for smash to date though, considering they somehow got away with not mentioning one piece of information about the ballot after ending.

Yeah, Nintendo has definitely been more careful with leaking information.
However, knowing data miners, I wouldn't doubt seeing full trailers of new characters before they're officially revealed.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I don't care about the Mario oversaturation, but I do care that in a month it's F-Zero's 25th anniversary, and I doubt it'll get so much as a mention. Just like Metroid couldn't compete with Zelda, F-Zero sure as hell can't compete with Mario. Until it gets a new game (in other words, never), Falcon will always be the sole F-Zero character in SSB.

Being an F-Zero fan is suffering.

 

[Sceptile4Smash]

I don't care about the Mario oversaturation, but I do care that in a month it's F-Zero's 25th anniversary, and I doubt it'll get so much as a mention. Just like Metroid couldn't compete with Zelda, F-Zero sure as hell can't compete with Mario. Until it gets a new game (in other words, never), Falcon will always be the sole F-Zero character in SSB.

Being an F-Zero fan is suffering.

Don't worry. Nintendo still remembers F-Zero.
The series almost got a new game for the Wii U but was canceled for a reason. Don't lose hope though

 

[NintenZ]

#TEAMFAKE
I'm going to be an oddball and say I voted for Dixie and Ganon for the if it's real section. Ganon, if it wasn't for his lack of popularity would honestly be a top contender for DLC character, but since it said "Would have gotten in eventually" it might be about how big the character is in their own series instead of just popularity. I doubt it's real though, which kinda sucks, since Dixie or Ganon would have been nice.

Everywhere I go this picture keeps following me, first the One Piece subreddit, then the BDee thread, and now here o-o. It's clearly a sign from the heavens! Doffy is now a shoo-in :D. (Honestly, I wouldn't even be mad)


Out of curiosity's sake, are there any characters that any of you guys and gals think are dark horses? I personally think Ganon and Dark Matter are, since Ganon and Dark Matter both have history as villains rivaling that of K. Rool and are arguably both from underrepped franchises, the only real big difference here is that K. Rool is a popular candidate, while the other two aren't. I don't expect them to be picked, but I think it's possible that Sakurai may go for them simply because of the amount of history they have, their not likely, but they are possible in my opinion.

Hmm, does anyone else wanna come out and be the oddball?

 

[vaanrose]

I'm still catching up on pages... but if vaanrose is around to post on why Ganondorf is a proper representation of the character, I would appreciate it.

I, too, was once plagued with inner turmoil and overwhelmingly difficult thoughts when it came to Ganondorf in smash. I was uneasy about the character, his future of growth in the series, and my sense of justice...but then, a voice came along. A wise voice, humble, preaching the word of Sakurai. Yes! Despite my inner demons of confusion, I took a chance and listened to the Gospel of Vaan...and suddenly, all of my [Ganondorf] problems melted away. You, too, can find clarity in your ill minds. Just take a chance and obey.

Um... thanks?

Lol. It really comes down to the fact that OoT Ganondorf never had a sword. The one commonly given to him was a creation for the Gamecube Tech Demo, which was always non-canon. In OoT's official artwork, he was illustrated as a hand to hand brawler.

It's easy to see how Sakurai could look at this illustration and conclude that Captain Falcon's moveset would be a suitable fit for Ganondorf.

While Ganondorf eventually got a pair of scimitars in Wind Waker, it was post-melee, and even with the swords, he was still brutal with his right hook.

The only time Ganondorf was ever portrayed predominantly as a swordfighter was in Twilight Princess, eight years after his first appearance, and even that version of Ganondorf doesn't actually own a sword. He stole the Sage's execution tool. He's not using it because he wants to use a sword, he's using it because it makes a statement. "This couldn't kill me, but I'm going to use it to kill you." But even in Twilight Princess Ganondorf isn't above kicking Link in the chest if he gets too close.

Ganondorf is a very physical fighter, a force to be reckoned with. He's arrogant and brash. He takes his fists to a swordfight because he can.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Um... thanks?

Lol. It really comes down to the fact that OoT Ganondorf never had a sword. The one commonly given to him was a creation for the Gamecube Tech Demo, which was always non-canon. In OoT's official artwork, he was illustrated as a hand to hand brawler.

It's easy to see how Sakurai could look at this illustration and conclude that Captain Falcon's moveset would be a suitable fit for Ganondorf.

Actually I'm pretty sure it's just because he had a similar build to Captain Falcon

 

[Xzsmmc]

I can forgive Ganon being a Falcon clone in Melee due to being a last minute addition, but him still being one when we have the likes of Hyrule Warriors Ganon now is just embarrassing.

Yeah, changing him may alienate some players, but I'd argue that making him go from fairly agile in Melee to slower than a glacier in Brawl is just as alienating.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Gotta say, I never thought of it that way. Agreeing with vaanrose with that.

If anything, I could agree that Ganondorf could have the Dead Man's Volley in his moveset or more magic in general, but how to balance that properly is beyond me. Having it as an easy reflection/deflection seems underwhelming, and making it easily avoidable is just as salt inducing.

Like I said, I have to agree with the raised points. But I can also agree that there are changes that COULD be made.

 

[Amberloo]

Official art may have portrayed him more physically, but the thing I remember the most from him in Ocarina of Time was his flashy magic attacks. And he did have a massive dark energy orb that couldn't be reflected or even blocked, as well. I'm not even against some of his moves- I think his Side B and Up B are fine the way they are, they're good examples of his brutal style. I mean, warlocks are supposed to be really strong and use magic. I just think the latter part of that isn't supported at all in his moveset. It's also annoying that he isn't that great in the air considering he had the whole levitation thing going for him the entire time in OoT.

 

[pupNapoleon]

vaanrose Maybe I need to be more careful with my wording. Id think the satirical nature of my post is more than clear in m wording, but maybe my voice isnt as strongly known on these boards given how some speak.

Assuming the data is correct (which I'm assuming for various reasons) that seems like a fairly solid lineup.

To play devils advocate however, I shall give my take on the characters. NOBODY ASKED BUT I WANT TO....SO THERE.

We have:

Spoiler

K.Rool
Dixie
Wolf
Krystal
Rayman
Snake
Banjo
Shovel Knight
Shantae
Inklings
Chibi-Robo
Wonder Red
Isaac
Bandanna Dee
Paper Mario
Bomberman
Impa
Tetra
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Ray
Ice Climbers
Chorus Men
Andy

Based on some fairly arguable points I'm going to make, I think that, while this list is vast and interesting, it's not AS interesting as we think.

First, let's talk characters from the same series...Assuming we're only getting 1 DLC character per series (not saying it's going to happen, but it makes sense to not double-dip, not even thinking about TRIPLE dipping), that alone would eliminate several choices. Should this be the case, you'd rule out at least one of Impa or Tetra, Dixie or K.Rool, arguably both Squirtle and Ivysaur, and then most likely Krystal between her and Wolf. That right there trims off at least 5 from the original 24.

Then there's technical issues. Assuming Sakurai stays by his word with Ice Climbers, they won't happen. Assuming tech issues are part of what kept Chorus Men out, they'd be ruled out too. That's another 2. We're down to 17 from the original 24.

Next, 3rd parties. Keep in mind that getting certain characters means certain costs. The amiibo part itself is easily what makes me question Banjo, and that's mainly because it's Microsoft. He's a long shot anyway. At least one of Snake or Bomberman would probably get the boot because, not that it couldn't happen, but two characters from another company as DLC? I'm not so sure about that. In this case, as much as I love Bomberman (seriously, I love those games!) I'm giving Snake the edge because he's a veteran and easily fits the legend status. To continue, Shovel Knight and Shantae...it's more than them just being Indie's. Think about how much those companies would gain from their characters being in Smash. It's pretty much a free bump up to Sonic status, which I have a feeling Sakurai is not going to consider unless Nintendo were to make it a priority. Might just be my opinion, but I don't think they're going to make it...for Smash 4 DLC. Smash 5? I could see it. So in all, that boots out 4 more. Rayman is fine. He's Rayman.

Only other real thing I can think of is the "future" of some of those series. Chibi-Robo got screwed with this. Sadly, Wonder Red is probably facing this fate as well. Really disappointing with these two...they have so much potential for great movesets in Smash. Isaac...I don't know. I don't really think you can call Golden Sun dead just yet. Even so, I think this is the weakest point I've brought up, because I don't think a series being "dead" should limit their inclusion. Ness and Lucas are in. That series has pretty much no future, yet there they are.

At this point, that would leave (hypothetically): K.Rool, Wolf, Isaac, Inklings, Snake, Bandanna Dee, Ray(?) (I don't know enough about him to make a proper point on him. Is his series alive and well?), Rayman, Paper Mario, Andy, and Tetra/Impa. Comes out to 11 total. 13 if you include Dixie and Krystal.

Not a bad lineup at all. There's a lot to work with with that list for sure. This is simply assuming that particular reasons would hold others back, which may not be the case.

I think its a bit brash to claim we are only getting one character per series; in fact, Id argue that to claim such is as arbitrary as one can get- a popular character is a popular character, and I believe you've made points to this conclusion prior. Mario and Pokemon outsell all other series by monumental degrees- while this is not the only point to be made against 'double dipping,' it immediately points out the lack of empirical evidence on that side of the fence.

Additionally, the creator of Mother/Earthbound said the series is done; it does not get more "dead" than that. Wait... it was only released in Japan in full, years ago, and with only three games to its name.
That makes it even more dead.

I think it is interesting that we all dissect Sakurai's word as literally as we do- it is clear the man is not the best with PR, but his words are translated even then. Can we really take the word of a translation, much less from a guy who is merely making public statements as a chair held to the lions? We are ravenous fans, his words have never once held steadfast. Let's not hold onto them like Christians in Armageddon.

Still, it would benefit Microsoft more and Nintendo less, and most of the profits would go to Microsoft. Imo it wouldn't be the best decision in terms of profit and marketing.

There are a number of deals Microsoft could strike with Nintendo to make Banjo possible, and to ignore the limitless possibilities is to ignore what will earn money. Profit? Just make Microsoft pay for the characters development. Marketing? Its not as if Nintendo and Microsoft even fully see themselves in direct competition, according to several sources.
It is not a lose-lose for anyone, it is all about what deal would be reached.

I don't think Sakurai is going to toss his usual requirements just because of popularity. Popularity is important, but that doesn't mean other categories don't need to be filled. That's where many characters fall short, and aren't saved by popularity.

You say this right after claiming Pokemon is fine to be represented only by popularity. Just want to point out this hypocrisy. Two out of six Pokemon characters have merit, and 4 are added solely because they are popular/were popular.

What does it matter?

Your statements were "but I'm willing to bet that more people know what game Banjo is from than what game Roy is from," and "Wolf's origins has to be known more so than Roy, if not I'll eat my shoe."

Roy's origins and the game Roy is from, is Super Smash Bros. Melee.

Approximate sales: 7.07 million copies.

Banjo-Kazooie: 3.65 million
Banjo-Tooie: 1.49 million
Nuts & Bolts: 0.75 million.

Simply stating, it's more likely that more people know Super Smash Bros. Melee than the entire Banjo-Kazooie series and possibly Star Fox (Wolf's origins).

Edit: Forgot the GBA games
Grunty's Revenge: 0.33 million
Banjo-Pilot: 0.10 million

I hate these self perpetuating arguments. A character deserves to be in smash because they ever were in smash. Sometimes (often) there is a reason for progress over conservation.

Well what do we think?

I think that if this doesnt happen he will not receive the backlash that such a proclaimed statement amply deserves.

RogersBase is still a cool guy, I'm not gonna hate him just because his source may be wrong.

I will do my best to leave out my personal taste, but I've seen the guy bash numerous people on these boards whom I respect, merely for speaking out against his ideas.

I do wonder why they never celebrate Mario's anniversary on the release date of Donkey Kong since that was inception. I guess they figure that the anniversary for Super Mario Bros. is more important.

Perhaps its because Jumpman and Mario are only the same character by inspiration? I dont believe in an actual chronology or reason for any of the Marioverse, but its clear that if we are trying to identify a singular entity, there is very little in common between Mario and Jumpman. Yes, one is directly inspired from the other, enough to allow the two to be called a uniform inception- but if they were literal characters, one would be the grandfather of the other, and they have a polar view on portrayed morality.
With Mario, the facade really is all there is. Anything 'deeper' is trying too much.

Point taken, Luigi was shoved up our throats too, however this isn't just the year of Super Mario Maker, it's the year of Amiibo too.

Amiibo wont end, mate. We are stuck with them forever. Or rather, trying to get them.

 

[vaanrose]

EDIT: Unimportant misinterpretations.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You call me into a random thread with no context, I'm only gonna read the one post. I happen to think Ganondorf is perfectly fine as he is. If you feel differently you don't need to pull me into random debates I'm not even a part of, particularly when people do agree with me.

...I DO agree with you. I quoted you to voice exactly what you did, which was to explain why Ganondorf is fitting as he is currently represented. The very blatant evangelistic nature of my post which referenced you is the only thing that was sarcastic about it (and I still abide by the fact that such is clear).

Will not make the mistake of that again. Jesus. Drop the attitude man.

 

[vaanrose]

...I DO agree with you. I quoted you to voice exactly what you did, which was to explain why Ganondorf is fitting as he is currently represented. The very blatant evangelistic nature of my post which referenced you is the only thing that was sarcastic about it (and I still abide by the fact that such is clear).

Will not make the mistake of that again. Jesus. Drop the attitude man.

Well, I'm sorry. Saying you were sarcastic made me believe the whole original post was a joke at my expense.

 

[Pazzo.]

Roger also tweeted : "Honestly very surprised that we didn’t hear anything big from Nintendo yesterday or today. Starting to think my source was wrong on this."

So looks like I had nothing to worry about all this time. I had a feeling that maybe their inside source was the wrong one, and that they were telling us exactly what the inside source was saying, as in lies.

This is good. Really good.

So it was all for attention like some of us expected?

VERY good....

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I don't care about the Mario oversaturation, but I do care that in a month it's F-Zero's 25th anniversary, and I doubt it'll get so much as a mention. Just like Metroid couldn't compete with Zelda, F-Zero sure as hell can't compete with Mario. Until it gets a new game (in other words, never), Falcon will always be the sole F-Zero character in SSB.

Being an F-Zero fan is suffering.

This truly does upset me. Any second F-Zero character (specifically Goroh or Shadow) would be really fun to play as, especially when you think about all the cool things Sakurai would think of for the character.

There's still hope for Yoshi, though.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I don't care about the Mario oversaturation, but I do care that in a month it's F-Zero's 25th anniversary, and I doubt it'll get so much as a mention. Just like Metroid couldn't compete with Zelda, F-Zero sure as hell can't compete with Mario. Until it gets a new game (in other words, never), Falcon will always be the sole F-Zero character in SSB.

Being an F-Zero fan is suffering.

I know something that will make you feel better, take a look at this F-Zero bias roster from our friendly neighborhood @Thatkidwiththeafro. Sure there's no Beastman or whatnot, but at least we have some core members like Black Shadow and Jody Summer.

http://fantendo.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Universe/Unlockable_Content

 

[kantoskies]

I do wonder why they never celebrate Mario's anniversary on the release date of Donkey Kong since that was inception. I guess they figure that the anniversary for Super Mario Bros. is more important.

I think what they're celebrating is more about Mario's series rather than the character himself (a little bit of that is thrown in too I guess)

Out of the first three big games Mario was in (Donkey Kong, Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros), SMB was definitely the most important, it introduced the Mushroom Kingdom, the concept of powerups, Princess Peach, Bowser, Toads, most of the standard enemies, and some of the most iconic pieces of music in the series. Yeah Donkey Kong was Mario the character's first appearance, but the game itself doesn't really have as much of an influence on the series as a whole as Super Mario Bros.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

vaanrose
I think its a bit brash to claim we are only getting one character per series; in fact, Id argue that to claim such is as arbitrary as one can get- a popular character is a popular character, and I believe you've made points to this conclusion prior. Mario and Pokemon outsell all other series by monumental degrees- while this is not the only point to be made against 'double dipping,' it immediately points out the lack of empirical evidence on that side of the fence.

Additionally, the creator of Mother/Earthbound said the series is done; it does not get more "dead" than that. Wait... it was only released in Japan in full, years ago, and with only three games to its name.
That makes it even more dead.

I think it is interesting that we all dissect Sakurai's word as literally as we do- it is clear the man is not the best with PR, but his words are translated even then. Can we really take the word of a translation, much less from a guy who is merely making public statements as a chair held to the lions? We are ravenous fans, his words have never once held steadfast. Let's not hold onto them like Christians in Armageddon.


You say this right after claiming Pokemon is fine to be represented only by popularity. Just want to point out this hypocrisy. Two out of six Pokemon characters have merit, and 4 are added solely because they are popular/were popular.

The thing is, I'm talking about DLC. DLC =/= main roster.

If we're getting 3-6 more characters as DLC, and 10 total, do you really think that Sakurai would add 3 Pokemon characters because they're popular? You need to take roster balance into account. Just because people say that a character should be in Smash doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea for the overall game. Despite Mario, Zelda and Pokemon being titan sized series for Nintendo, filling the DLC roster with characters from those series alienates tons of fans elsewhere. The team would be better off adding characters that are as diverse as they can possibly get.

That isn't to say it's an impossibility. I didn't say it was. But it's just a bad idea to release 3 Pokemon characters as DLC. Again, just because it sells well doesn't mean that everyone wants more characters from that series. Especially when hardly any characters from that series break the top 10 in popularity.

Popularity isn't EVERYTHING for the ballot, because there are other things to take into consideration. However, it IS a ballot. Popularity is more important than it used to be.

The difference with Earthbound/Mother and a series like Chibi-Robo is that the characters from Earthbound/Mother were added to Smash as the series was alive and well. They're already in Smash, and they already have fans who play as them. Sakurai takes that seriously, and doesn't cut veterans just because he wants to. He cuts them if he HAS to. He's not going to cut a character simply because they're not "relevant". They've already made an impact on fans. It's adding a character who is already in bad shape that is the problem, theoretically. If the character has no future, in Sakurai's mindset, it may not be worth adding them.

Also, I don't know where you got your Pokemon/Smash info from, because i'm pretty sure all of the Pokemon were added because they presented unique opportunities and were popular, or were an important investment to Game Freak/The Pokemon Company.

Pikachu- known worldwide by gamers/non-gamers alike as the mascot of Pokemon. Incredibly popular
Charizard- has taken polls as "Most Popular Pokemon", had important role in early anime, likely the most popular character from the Trainer Trio (was likely added over Squirtle and Ivysaur because of this)
Lucario- starred in movies (another thing that Sakurai has mentioned as being a big deal), has unique aura mechanic
Greninja- Sakurai liked his design and felt that he would present unique opportunities. Game Freak likely had a hand in this as well

I could go on, but here's another thing. Sakurai has gone on record saying how difficult it can be to negotiate with Game Freak/The Pokemon Company. Who do you think the company wants added to an all-star brawler game? The most popular characters/characters who are going to be pushed. They aren't just going to add a random Pokemon because "reasons".

Popularity IS important...but it's not the only important thing taken into consideration. This is a multi-step process.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Gotta say, I never thought of it that way. Agreeing with vaanrose with that.

If anything, I could agree that Ganondorf could have the Dead Man's Volley in his moveset or more magic in general, but how to balance that properly is beyond me. Having it as an easy reflection/deflection seems underwhelming, and making it easily avoidable is just as salt inducing.

Like I said, I have to agree with the raised points. But I can also agree that there are changes that COULD be made.

This is the main reason why King Dedede's Gordo Throw was a nerf. Should they add the dead man's volley, they should make it so that pressing B while using Warlock Punch cancels the move and releases the attack. At the very least it would add some mindgames to the slowest move in the world.

 

[Sceptile4Smash]

The thing is, I'm talking about DLC. DLC =/= main roster.

If we're getting 3-6 more characters as DLC, and 10 total, do you really think that Sakurai would add 3 Pokemon characters because they're popular? You need to take roster balance into account. Just because people say that a character should be in Smash doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea for the overall game. Despite Mario, Zelda and Pokemon being titan sized series for Nintendo, filling the DLC roster with characters from those series alienates tons of fans elsewhere. The team would be better off adding characters that are as diverse as they can possibly get.

That isn't to say it's an impossibility. I didn't say it was. But it's just a bad idea to release 3 Pokemon characters as DLC. Again, just because it sells well doesn't mean that everyone wants more characters from that series. Especially when hardly any characters from that series break the top 10 in popularity.

Popularity isn't EVERYTHING for the ballot, because there are other things to take into consideration. However, it IS a ballot. Popularity is more important than it used to be.

The difference with Earthbound/Mother and a series like Chibi-Robo is that the characters from Earthbound/Mother were added to Smash as the series was alive and well. They're already in Smash, and they already have fans who play as them. Sakurai takes that seriously, and doesn't cut veterans just because he wants to. He cuts them if he HAS to. He's not going to cut a character simply because they're not "relevant". They've already made an impact on fans. It's adding a character who is already in bad shape that is the problem, theoretically. If the character has no future, in Sakurai's mindset, it may not be worth adding them.

Also, I don't know where you got your Pokemon/Smash info from, because i'm pretty sure all of the Pokemon were added because they presented unique opportunities and were popular, or were an important investment to Game Freak/The Pokemon Company.

Pikachu- known worldwide by gamers/non-gamers alike as the mascot of Pokemon. Incredibly popular
Charizard- has taken polls as "Most Popular Pokemon", had important role in early anime, likely the most popular character from the Trainer Trio (was likely added over Squirtle and Ivysaur because of this)
Lucario- starred in movies (another thing that Sakurai has mentioned as being a big deal), has unique aura mechanic
Greninja- Sakurai liked his design and felt that he would present unique opportunities. Game Freak likely had a hand in this as well

I could go on, but here's another thing. Sakurai has gone on record saying how difficult it can be to negotiate with Game Freak/The Pokemon Company. Who do you think the company wants added to an all-star brawler game? The most popular characters/characters who are going to be pushed. They aren't just going to add a random Pokemon because "reasons".

Popularity IS important...but it's not the only important thing taken into consideration. This is a multi-step process.

If Nintendo really wanted to, they could just add another character from Mario, LoZ and Pokemon.
However, the Smash ballot is a suggestion box for Sakurai and the team. They'll add in whoever they think fits the most in Snash as long as they have support and possible.
This is why I think Indie characters/3rd party characters have a pretty low chance. Even with companies literally treating Nintendo as a king to get their character in means nothing. Nintendo still has 1st party characters that are not in Smash and would be unique.

 

[Amberloo]

The thing is, I'm talking about DLC. DLC =/= main roster.

If we're getting 3-6 more characters as DLC, and 10 total, do you really think that Sakurai would add 3 Pokemon characters because they're popular? You need to take roster balance into account. Just because people say that a character should be in Smash doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea for the overall game. Despite Mario, Zelda and Pokemon being titan sized series for Nintendo, filling the DLC roster with characters from those series alienates tons of fans elsewhere. The team would be better off adding characters that are as diverse as they can possibly get.

That isn't to say it's an impossibility. I didn't say it was. But it's just a bad idea to release 3 Pokemon characters as DLC. Again, just because it sells well doesn't mean that everyone wants more characters from that series. Especially when hardly any characters from that series break the top 10 in popularity.

Popularity isn't EVERYTHING for the ballot, because there are other things to take into consideration. However, it IS a ballot. Popularity is more important than it used to be.

The difference with Earthbound/Mother and a series like Chibi-Robo is that the characters from Earthbound/Mother were added to Smash as the series was alive and well. They're already in Smash, and they already have fans who play as them. Sakurai takes that seriously, and doesn't cut veterans just because he wants to. He cuts them if he HAS to. He's not going to cut a character simply because they're not "relevant". They've already made an impact on fans. It's adding a character who is already in bad shape that is the problem, theoretically. If the character has no future, in Sakurai's mindset, it may not be worth adding them.

Also, I don't know where you got your Pokemon/Smash info from, because i'm pretty sure all of the Pokemon were added because they presented unique opportunities and were popular, or were an important investment to Game Freak/The Pokemon Company.

Pikachu- known worldwide by gamers/non-gamers alike as the mascot of Pokemon. Incredibly popular
Charizard- has taken polls as "Most Popular Pokemon", had important role in early anime, likely the most popular character from the Trainer Trio (was likely added over Squirtle and Ivysaur because of this)
Lucario- starred in movies (another thing that Sakurai has mentioned as being a big deal), has unique aura mechanic
Greninja- Sakurai liked his design and felt that he would present unique opportunities. Game Freak likely had a hand in this as well

I could go on, but here's another thing. Sakurai has gone on record saying how difficult it can be to negotiate with Game Freak/The Pokemon Company. Who do you think the company wants added to an all-star brawler game? The most popular characters/characters who are going to be pushed. They aren't just going to add a random Pokemon because "reasons".

Popularity IS important...but it's not the only important thing taken into consideration. This is a multi-step process.

Yeah, The Pokemon Company is really uptight, and I imagine working with them sucks, to be honest. I mean, this is the company that wouldn't let them use any sound effects or a few seconds of Pokemon music in Mario Maker for the costumes, despite the fact that they pretty much only work with Nintendo. This is sort of a tiny side rant, but I wish they'd get knocked down a peg.

Anyway, the logical reason we wouldn't get more than one new rep per franchise is because it's never safe to put all your eggs in one basket. They could add three new Pokemon or yet another f$%&ing FE swordfighter and they could all be designed really well, but it's still going to suck for all the people who want K.Rool, Wolf, Inklings, Isaac, Bandana Dee, etc. Diversifying the DLC covers more bases. Sure, there are some series that would benefit from a couple extra characters- DK getting K.Rool and Dixie would probably be fine with a lot of people, since the series is only represented by two characters at the moment. But take Pokemon for example- it has 6 playable characters (one of which was already DLC) and an actual ****ton of other Pokemon that you can summon mid-battle.