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Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

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Burruni

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The "Smash 3DS" stuff was maintenance going on the site; the Smash Wii U and 3DS sub-forums were merged. "Pranked" status occurs when a premium user decides to play a "prank" on you by changing your color to magenta and status to "Pranked!" and it lasts for a month

The main changes I'd give Ganondorf are Warlock Punch to Dead Man's Volley, and a new up tilt and up smash
As a Falcondorf main.
The Up smash does not need to be change.
U-Tilt is the weirdest move because of how much that windbox sucks in with this game.
And change Warlock Punch to something like his yyy x combo in Hyrule Warriors where it's a backhanded punch which launches a sphere (less damage on the punch and launches a projectile on par or say a fully charged Power Shot, Aura Sphere, or Shadow Ball with the issue of still having that windup)
 

Ura

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Honestly, I would have preferred if Ganondorf wasn't in Melee despite me liking his playstyle. He just has so much moveset potential to use and the fact that he has to stay a Falcon clone for all the Smash installments for the sake of "not alienating his Melee fans" is just disappointing.

Why they couldn't have went with Black Shadow as the Falcon clone instead IDK. F-Zero was pretty hot at that time with F-Zero X being popular and F-Zero GX on the horizon so that would have been a much more sensible move. That way we could have had a fully unique Ganondorf as a newcomer in Brawl instead of being stuck with Falcondorf
 

Roaring Salsa

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As a Falcondorf main.
The Up smash does not need to be change.
U-Tilt is the weirdest move because of how much that windbox sucks in with this game.
And change Warlock Punch to something like his yyy x combo in Hyrule Warriors where it's a backhanded punch which launches a sphere (less damage on the punch and launches a projectile on par or say a fully charged Power Shot, Aura Sphere, or Shadow Ball with the issue of still having that windup)
I mainly chose those three because they tend to be the most controversial moves when people complain about Falcondorf not being Ganondorf. I think that by giving him a few "canon" moves while still retaining most of his moveset, most people would be happy :p

I'd place Warlock Punch as a side smash, but that's just me
 
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Kirby Dragons

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I wouldn't change the Warlock Punch because that one is actually canon.
Really? When did he do that?

This is what I'd make Ganondorf's special moves, if I could.

Standard Special: Warlock Blade (make Warlock Punch a custom move)
Side Special: Fireballs of Darkness
Up Special: Teleport Attack
Down Special: Power Freeze
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Really? When did he do that?

This is what I'd make Ganondorf's special moves, if I could.

Standard Special: Warlock Blade (make Warlock Punch a custom move)
Side Special: Fireballs of Darkness
Up Special: Teleport Attack
Down Special: Power Freeze
 

Arcadenik

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The problem with bringing transformations back doesn't just start and end with hardware. Sure, the 3DS couldn't handle it (right?), but there's more to it on a conceptual level.

For someone who used to pick Zelda in Brawl, from my experience, people picked Zelda to play as Sheik. They didn't want to play as Zelda. They just wanted Sheik. From a gameplay perspective, why use the transformation if it's not used strategically, or Zelda is cast off to the side for her superior transformation in Sheik? It's a waste. That's partially why Sheik probably got separated.

Zero Suit Samus in my opinion was a problem with untapped potential. Being strapped down to be a Final Smash transformation was (imo stupid) and forced players to play as Zero Suit Samus AND Samus, especially if you wanted a Final Smash.

Pokemon Trainer was another case of "why switch?" in Brawl. Most of the time, I liked just playing as Charizard. I'm sure it was a common complaint among players who just wanted to play as one of the Pokemon. I liked the concept of the Pokemon Trainer, but I feel as if they made the right decision with Charizard being the standalone Pokemon considering his massive popularity and what not. This likely comes to a matter of opinion really.

Overall I think transformation characters should stay away, simply because if there's a superior form, that form is going to be used far more than the inferior one, and that's not the point of a transformation character. There's also probably a form of balancing going on with Namco on the team, and they saw the transformation as more work than necessary.
Pretty much why I was happy when Sakurai announced that characters no longer transform. I like that Zelda, Sheik, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, and Charizard are now separate characters... but I have to be honest, I really wish that Squirtle and Ivysaur came back too... I would have loved to main the starters separately in SSB4 instead of having to switch between them during a match like in Brawl. I mean, I had fun playing as Squirtle and Ivysaur too. And... the more, the merrier, right?
 

APC99

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My problem is with Squirtle / Ivysaur, there's just not enough desire for them to return for it to be worth development. Looking at the DLC characters already, Mewtwo / Roy / Lucas all were extremely desired characters, and now so are Wolf / Snake / Ice Climbers. With Squirtle and Ivysaur, they don't have the huge fanbase you saw advocating for the other veterans. Imagine if Mewtwo got in in place of Dr. Mario, hypothetically, and the first DLC character announced was Dr. Mario. Would people get excited for the Doc?

To me, if the remaining Pokemon veterans (Ivysaur / Squirtle / Pichu) were to return, they wouldn't make nearly as much hype as other characters, and wouldn't be selling as well.

EDIT: Before I get shut down, I'd love to see them return. That's not my point.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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My problem is with Squirtle / Ivysaur, there's just not enough desire for them to return for it to be worth development. Looking at the DLC characters already, Mewtwo / Roy / Lucas all were extremely desired characters, and now so are Wolf / Snake / Ice Climbers. With Squirtle and Ivysaur, they don't have the huge fanbase you saw advocating for the other veterans. Imagine if Mewtwo got in in place of Dr. Mario, hypothetically, and the first DLC character announced was Dr. Mario. Would people get excited for the Doc?

To me, if the remaining Pokemon veterans (Ivysaur / Squirtle / Pichu) were to return, they wouldn't make nearly as much hype as other characters, and wouldn't be selling as well.

EDIT: Before I get shut down, I'd love to see them return. That's not my point.
Most people simply believe only 1 DLC character per franchise
 

APC99

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Most people simply believe only 1 DLC character per franchise
...But what's the point of that?

If a character has a unique moveset, and can do something nobody else in the roster could give, why does it matter what games they come from?

As long as a franchise doesn't make up the most of the roster, who cares where they come from? I mean, yes, 20% of the SSB4 characters come from the Mario games and lore, but who cares? Mario is Nintendo, the huge flagship franchise, of course you're going to see a sh*t-ton of characters who come from Mario games, they're iconic and recognizable. Even then, you see Yoshi, DK and Wario making a name for themselves.

That's a problem I see a lot, this whole "representation and relevancy" thing. They do have a part in selection, we know that, but their role is so miniscule in the final part of it. Sakurai, from what we know, looks at these characters and looks into seeing what they could do as a fighter based on build, abilities, their origin game / franchise, etc. Characters aren't finalized because "oh, we need them because they're important to their franchise / fill a certain niche". That doesn't mean anything if they can't do jack.

That's why I despise the idea of "slots" and "representation". Characters are determined, in the end, by playstyle. Not to be rude, but the ideas I saw during speculation for Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were rather uninspired. There wasn't anything different to them, it felt like just giving them moves because "they can do that in that one game." Now, we have a puppet master Rosalina, and a mech-wielding Bowser Junior, something I've never seen suggested for them, but still does the characters justice and makes them different instead of just being Space Peach or Baby Bowser.

I kind of went off on a tangent here, but still. If they were to add back in :squirtle: / :ivysaur:, they're not going to just say "oh, they're both Pokemon, we already did Mewtwo, so it's a waste of our time." People want veterans back. What I'm saying is that it's just the noise for these two isn't nearly as loud as, say, :wolf: / :snake:.
 

Cutie Gwen

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...But what's the point of that?

If a character has a unique moveset, and can do something nobody else in the roster could give, why does it matter what games they come from?

As long as a franchise doesn't make up the most of the roster, who cares where they come from? I mean, yes, 20% of the SSB4 characters come from the Mario games and lore, but who cares? Mario is Nintendo, the huge flagship franchise, of course you're going to see a sh*t-ton of characters who come from Mario games, they're iconic and recognizable. Even then, you see Yoshi, DK and Wario making a name for themselves.

That's a problem I see a lot, this whole "representation and relevancy" thing. They do have a part in selection, we know that, but their role is so miniscule in the final part of it. Sakurai, from what we know, looks at these characters and looks into seeing what they could do as a fighter based on build, abilities, their origin game / franchise, etc. Characters aren't finalized because "oh, we need them because they're important to their franchise / fill a certain niche". That doesn't mean anything if they can't do jack.

That's why I despise the idea of "slots" and "representation". Characters are determined, in the end, by playstyle. Not to be rude, but the ideas I saw during speculation for Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were rather uninspired. There wasn't anything different to them, it felt like just giving them moves because "they can do that in that one game." Now, we have a puppet master Rosalina, and a mech-wielding Bowser Junior, something I've never seen suggested for them, but still does the characters justice and makes them different instead of just being Space Peach or Baby Bowser.

I kind of went off on a tangent here, but still. If they were to add back in :squirtle: / :ivysaur:, they're not going to just say "oh, they're both Pokemon, we already did Mewtwo, so it's a waste of our time." People want veterans back. What I'm saying is that it's just the noise for these two isn't nearly as loud as, say, :wolf: / :snake:.
Don't ask me why people think that. I think it's dumb too, but lots of people believe 'We already have Mewtwo, why bother?' Only reason I didn't vote for the guys is because I wanted some newcomers
 

Ura

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I think having 1 DLC character per series is for the better because it allows for a wide variety of characters getting in the game as opposed to having multiple characters from the same series. You got to flesh out the characters y'know? Personally, I wouldn't want both K. Rool and Dixie or Wolf and Krystal to be DLC. Spread the DLC goodness around for different series.
 

Wolfie557

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A ghost type Pokemon would indeed be cool... :094:
lol thought he was dark :p.

Sozzy but I don't pokerfacemon.
I think having 1 DLC character per series is for the better because it allows for a wide variety of characters getting in the game as opposed to having multiple characters from the same series. You got to flesh out the characters y'know? Personally, I wouldn't want both K. Rool and Dixie or Wolf and Krystal to be DLC. Spread the DLC goodness around for different series.
I agree,only if say K Rool gets in, Dixie then MUST be in Smash 5 and vica versa and ect XD
 
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EdgeTheLucas

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A new Pikmin game's been announced, and it's even nearing completion!

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-announces-pikmin-4-in-the-weirdest-way-1729155958

Perhaps this means in the next Smash we might either see an upgrade for Alph into a separate character and not just an Olimar alternate, or someone else playable.

Glad we're getting a new entry so soon after Pikmin 3, especially since we had to wait so long for Pikmin 3 to come out after Pikmin 2 in the first place.
 

Joseppo

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A new Pikmin game's been announced, and it's even nearing completion!

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-announces-pikmin-4-in-the-weirdest-way-1729155958

Perhaps this means in the next Smash we might either see an upgrade for Alph into a separate character and not just an Olimar alternate, or someone else playable.

Glad we're getting a new entry so soon after Pikmin 3, especially since we had to wait so long for Pikmin 3 to come out after Pikmin 2 in the first place.
I never played any Pikmin game, so what differences could Alph have from Olimar if he got his own slot as a character?
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Personally, I think there are diminishing returns on fighters from the same series. Even if you had 4 Pokemon as DLC, it's boring in the sense that it's still all Pokemon.

It's best if you a mix of a bunch of good stuff. Characters that are popular and unique, but from different series. If we truly have 2 DLC characters left, Wolf and Snake are far more appealing than two more Pokemon, mainly because those are two series that don't have DLC yet.

Might just be me. Maybe not.
 

EdgeTheLucas

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I never played any Pikmin game, so what differences could Alph have from Olimar if he got his own slot as a character?
Just have them move at different speeds, have different weight, different ways of attacking with the Pikmin, and have access to exclusive species of Pikmin. Pikmin 2, which Olimar was the man character in, had exclusive Purple and White Pikmin. Pikmin 3, which Alph was the face in, can use Flying and Rock Pikmin instead. Both can share Red, Blue, and Yellow Pikmin.

Not too hard to think about, and Alph gets to be upgraded.
 

Kirby Dragons

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I think having 1 DLC character per series is for the better because it allows for a wide variety of characters getting in the game as opposed to having multiple characters from the same series. You got to flesh out the characters y'know? Personally, I wouldn't want both K. Rool and Dixie or Wolf and Krystal to be DLC. Spread the DLC goodness around for different series.
That's a nice thought, not necessarily something I agree or disagree with. But even if multiple characters from the same series can be DLC for one game, I don't see that happening. None of the series currently in Smash 4 right now really need more than one DLC character, and the most popular characters are mainly from different series. The only exception to this would be Wolf and Krystal, yet KKR, BWD, Inkling, and Isaac are more popular than the latter.
I never played any Pikmin game, so what differences could Alph have from Olimar if he got his own slot as a character?
Two words.

Rock. Pikmin.

But was Alph actually confirmed to be Pikmin 4's protagonist? If not, I don't see the real reason to add Alph in the actual protagonist's place.
 
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CrusherMania1592

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Am I the only one who feels that DK should be the only series that needs more than one DLC reps? He's pretty underrepped and having all four would be a dream come true, or at least to me.

Mario - Toad/Captain Toad?
Donkey Kong - Dixie and K Rool?
Zelda - Impa?
Metroid -
Yoshi -
Kirby -
Star Fox - Wolf?
Pokemon - Mewtwo
F-Zero - Black Shadow?
Earthbound/Mother - Ness
Ice Climbers - Ice Climbers?
Fire Emblem - Roy
Retro - Mike Jones? (throwing a wildcard here)
Sonic - Tails/Knuckles?
Metal Gear - Snake
Megaman -
Pacman -
Street Fighter -

I don't want a second captain unless they are at least as different as Mario is to Luigi.
Alph in my opinion should've been playable due to how well Pikmin is plus with the whole costume thing they did with Doc, Pittoo, and Lucina before they become characters on their own, it makes sense a little
 
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Alph Aran

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...But what's the point of that?

If a character has a unique moveset, and can do something nobody else in the roster could give, why does it matter what games they come from?

As long as a franchise doesn't make up the most of the roster, who cares where they come from? I mean, yes, 20% of the SSB4 characters come from the Mario games and lore, but who cares? Mario is Nintendo, the huge flagship franchise, of course you're going to see a sh*t-ton of characters who come from Mario games, they're iconic and recognizable. Even then, you see Yoshi, DK and Wario making a name for themselves.

That's a problem I see a lot, this whole "representation and relevancy" thing. They do have a part in selection, we know that, but their role is so miniscule in the final part of it. Sakurai, from what we know, looks at these characters and looks into seeing what they could do as a fighter based on build, abilities, their origin game / franchise, etc. Characters aren't finalized because "oh, we need them because they're important to their franchise / fill a certain niche". That doesn't mean anything if they can't do jack.

That's why I despise the idea of "slots" and "representation". Characters are determined, in the end, by playstyle. Not to be rude, but the ideas I saw during speculation for Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were rather uninspired. There wasn't anything different to them, it felt like just giving them moves because "they can do that in that one game." Now, we have a puppet master Rosalina, and a mech-wielding Bowser Junior, something I've never seen suggested for them, but still does the characters justice and makes them different instead of just being Space Peach or Baby Bowser.

I kind of went off on a tangent here, but still. If they were to add back in :squirtle: / :ivysaur:, they're not going to just say "oh, they're both Pokemon, we already did Mewtwo, so it's a waste of our time." People want veterans back. What I'm saying is that it's just the noise for these two isn't nearly as loud as, say, :wolf: / :snake:.
On behalf of all those of us in the Smash Bros. community that want a Fire Emblem character from the fighter ballot, I'd say this is the most troublesome reasoning we really hate when discussing the characters who happen to be from that series.
 

Wolfie557

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I really want whoever the second Pikmin rep would be to use Rock Pikmin and whatever new Pikmin types from Pikmin 4 in unique ways. By that I mean not just be the type that follow so like how Fying Pikmin were used.
 

Arcadenik

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I don't want a second captain unless they are at least as different as Mario is to Luigi.
Well... Alph could be much different from Olimar if he only has Rock Pikmin. They would basically be Purple Pikmin reskinned... so Alph would be much stronger than Olimar but with a much shorter range due to how far Rock Pikmin are thrown. I feel that this would make Alph play much differently from Olimar even with same moves...
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I never played any Pikmin game, so what differences could Alph have from Olimar if he got his own slot as a character?
He could take some elements from Brawl Olimar, (6 Pikmin & stuff). Have Winged Pikmin as regular Pikmin that home in on opponents, and Rock Pikmin that are more durable, but don't deal extra damage, or cling to opponents.
If Alph is in the next game, then he could use the new Pikmin, and stop using the Red, Blue, and Yellow Pikmin entirely.
He could also use the sprays.
 
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Burruni

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On the Pikmin subject

Pikmin 1 & 2 came out 3 years apart on the same console.

Considering the information we have about it, we have Pikmin 3 and 2013 and probably Pikmin 4 in 2016 as one of the last big titles for the Wii U.

On Alph/Olimar, the only real difference is the lack of rock pikmin.

Because in the series, all 6 of the captains so far have played the exact same.

Edit: LOOK AT THIS GLORY


Ganon for Smash
 
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The Novice Sword

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I think if another Pikmin captain became a full playable character they would end up as a semiclone at most due to the nature of the core combat of all Pikmin games being the same.

None of this is a bad thing to me and I would personally love to see Louie as a semiclone.
 

Burruni

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I think if another Pikmin captain became a full playable character they would end up as a semiclone at most due to the nature of the core combat of all Pikmin games being the same.

None of this is a bad thing to me and I would personally love to see Louie as a semiclone.
I remember someone saying that Louie would be possible using a moveset based on the insects of the series due to his "King of Bugs" title in Pikmin 2.
It was... somethin' else. Especially... since they used the elemental Dweevils just like Pikmin anyways.
 

Alph Aran

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Regarding the possible Pikmin newcomer that uses Pikmin, let's not forget the bomb rocks the Yellow Pikmin should be able to have sometimes when plucked in this game.
A new Pikmin game's been announced, and it's even nearing completion!

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-announces-pikmin-4-in-the-weirdest-way-1729155958

Perhaps this means in the next Smash we might either see an upgrade for Alph into a separate character and not just an Olimar alternate, or someone else playable.

Glad we're getting a new entry so soon after Pikmin 3, especially since we had to wait so long for Pikmin 3 to come out after Pikmin 2 in the first place.
Excellent, now...


For the Wii U, of course.
 
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The problem with another pikmin user is the logic behind it. If they just have stronger/weaker pikmin there has to be a reason why they are stronger/weaker. Normal clone rules probably wouldn't apply if it was the same pikmin.

As for rock pikmin that is still only 1/5th of the total moveset. Not THAT big of a change. same goes for yellow using bomb rocks. Unless you use JUST that type of pikmin which would be inherently broken.

Now maybe something like the use of the Special berry juice from pikmin 2 with a few other unique uses however. . .
 
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Sid-cada

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Honestly, why does everyone focus on the Captains when it comes to characters for Pikmin? Why not the wildlife that you fight?

I mean, the "too big" excuse can be easily handwaved away because they aren't individuals, but speices. Just state that the playable version is smaller/younger than the ones we encountered before. Maybe hide some of the bulk in the z-axis if necessary.


Honestly, I'd love for the Titan Dweevil to be playable. Attacking with giant, oversized household objects have a certain charm, allowing him to play like a living tank or artillery piece. You can really get creative with the concept. Though, I'd also accept the Emperor Bulbblax, if they exaggerate the frog features. A giant, long-range grappler who bounds around the stage? Sounds like he'd be fun to play.
 

PrettyIvyPearls22

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Guys, we barely know anything about the new Pikmin game, and were discussing a possible newcomer? At least wait for more information on the game first before a possible new addition for the Pikmin roster. Are we really that hasty for a possible new character?
 
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Honestly, why does everyone focus on the Captains when it comes to characters for Pikmin? Why not the wildlife that you fight?

.
Why not? The most iconic (By a longshot) is the bulborb. He happens to have zero moveset potential. After that is probably the snagret. Same issue but add "can't move or jump"

Going down the line the next available monster with some sort of ability to set itself apart is either he plasm wraith (who is one of the pikmin characters i've seen brought up a lot) or Louie riding some form of bug.

the plasm wraith is a one-off and louie riding a bug has it's own issues. So i pretty much boils down to plasm and captains
 

Burruni

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Honestly, why does everyone focus on the Captains when it comes to characters for Pikmin? Why not the wildlife that you fight?

I mean, the "too big" excuse can be easily handwaved away because they aren't individuals, but speices. Just state that the playable version is smaller/younger than the ones we encountered before. Maybe hide some of the bulk in the z-axis if necessary.


Honestly, I'd love for the Titan Dweevil to be playable. Attacking with giant, oversized household objects have a certain charm, allowing him to play like a living tank or artillery piece. You can really get creative with the concept. Though, I'd also accept the Emperor Bulbblax, if they exaggerate the frog features. A giant, long-range grappler who bounds around the stage? Sounds like he'd be fun to play.
It's... pretty simple, really.

When we look at our characters for Smash, we have people we directly control in their games :4falcon::4charizard::4darkpit::4dedede::4diddy::4dk::4falco::4fox::4gaw::4greninja::4myfriends::4jigglypuff::4kirby::4littlemac::4link::4lucario::4lucas::4lucina::4luigi::4mario::4marth::4megaman::4metaknight::4mewtwo::4mii::4miif::4ness::4olimar::4pacman::4peach::4pikachu::4pit::4rob::4robinm::rosalina::4feroy::4ryu::4samus::4shulk::4sonic::4tlink::4villager::4wario::4yoshi::4zss:

We have long-running villains:4bowser::4bowserjr::4ganondorf:

And... what does that exclude? :4drmario::4duckhunt::4palutena::4sheik::4zelda:

This is, of course, referring to when they were first made playable (excluding Roy who's game came out AFTER Melee) .. and the fact that :fox64::falcon64::falcomelee: were in situations that you were acting through them as pilots.

And, let's be honest, there's little to work with from most of the enemies of Pikmin as a whole. The ones that do have an arsenal instead of just eating, jumping, becoming electrically charged, or vomiting a form of projectile, are pretty much limited to the one-off final bosses... Titan Dweevil and Plasm Wraith.

And even the captains themselves have VERY little in terms of actions: Throwing & Plucking Pikmin, whistling, and having Pikmin Swarm with occasionally punching something to keep aggro. The most expanded a Captain's fighting skills got was in 2 with things like the rocket punch.
 
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Alph Aran

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Screwed up message on phone. Editing.
 
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I will however admit that there is a buttload of untapped potential in Pikmin. Stages, AT< and especially bosses are just waiting to be used for things

Imagine a Submerged Castle level with the Water Wraith rolling around one-shotting people until a horde of purples rain down so players can wail on him.

Maybe bulbmin as an assist trophy. or a swooping snitchbug that grabs players and grounds them like the pitfall item.

There really is a lot of potential in the franchise. . .just not as playable fighters.
 

The Novice Sword

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I will however admit that there is a buttload of untapped potential in Pikmin. Stages, AT< and especially bosses are just waiting to be used for things

Imagine a Submerged Castle level with the Water Wraith rolling around one-shotting people until a horde of purples rain down so players can wail on him.

Maybe bulbmin as an assist trophy. or a swooping snitchbug that grabs players and grounds them like the pitfall item.

There really is a lot of potential in the franchise. . .just not as playable fighters.
I need an Empress Bulblax AT that rolls around and poops out larvae like yesterday.
 
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