Detailed Character Matchups *Under Construction*/Movesets/Training Guide

[Emblem Lord]

Wario has sick DI which gives him space control.

Also I think his Bite beats out the QD.

Also he is at disadvantage vs Olimar, Lucas, Piakchu, and maybe Ness.

I knew I forgot some.

 

[Betaz]

idk I'm still kind of iffy about Wario...
Olimar is a definate yes...unless you can get him of the ledge far enough to edgehog(lol tether) Lucas...just...don't get above him...and dodge those fires...Pikachu...nope can't say anything about Pikachu really tough matchup overall...and yea...maybe Ness

 

[Ussi]

Betaz mind telling how wolf is WINNABLE? Pikachu is a hard match up if he knows how to spam well. and he has a TON of spamming moves. but pikachu is the 5th lightest character meaning o.o you just need a few clean hits, best bet to trade blows in thunder.

 

[Betaz]

instead of trying to do aerials sidestep the shots...Wolf's shots are really slow so you can sidestep them easily...then when he get's close enough land an f-tilt or if he jumps do an u-tilt...by the way you described your troubles with Wolf it sounds like he countered your playstyle and you started to panic by rolling everywhere

EDIT: nvm you said dodgeing not rolling...hmm yah if he tries to go in with an f-smash learn to see it and shield and grab...then try and techchase

 

[The Mediator]

Hmm... Interesting thing about Marth...

You know aether's anti-edgeguarding properties? Against a smart Marth player, it doesn't really work.
When Ike throws up the sword, Marth counters it, nothing happens to him, and he's ready to edgeguard.

Just a little thing I noticed, doesn't make much difference, but it's interesting to note.

 

[Ussi]

instead of trying to do aerials sidestep the shots...Wolf's shots are really slow so you can sidestep them easily...then when he get's close enough land an f-tilt or if he jumps do an u-tilt...by the way you described your troubles with Wolf it sounds like he countered your playstyle and you started to panic by rolling everywhere

EDIT: nvm you said dodgeing not rolling...hmm yah if he tries to go in with an f-smash learn to see it and shield and grab...then try and techchase

that's what i was gonna try the next time i went against a wolf. But so far i just used pikachu to beat wolf users, works well except in battlefield for some reason (must be those platforms that stop me from thundering)

 

[AlexX]

Also I think his Bite beats out the QD.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't... In fact, I'm pretty sure just about all of Ike's attacks have greater range and priority than Wario's.

 

[Junglechief]

Personaly my experience with Ike has been that he just massacure big characters so, i would put DDD in easy to even matchups. Ike seems to have trouble with projectiles and characters with high priority. He also appears good at beating up floaties.

 

[FEaR.7]

Uh no, DDD is definetly not an easy or even matchup, at least from my experience.

 

[.kR0]

DDD shouldn't be one of the hardest match-up for Ike. You have no clue how bad DDD's recoveries are (4 really short jumps with the most ******** upB recovery in the game next to Olimar's).

Toon Link>DDD

DDD is still a hard-match up but no way his hardest.

And yes, Snake is a beast.

 

[PXG]

I frequnetly play against a skilled Ike, and I OWN him with my Wolf (three stocks are very common) with little effort. Wolf has a TON of range with his down and foward smash. Plus, they are quick (unpredicatble) and powerful. His shine and baster stun Ike, long enough to do to combo or dsmash him to oblivion. Edge guarding with dmashes, fmashes and fairs keeps Ike off the stage. Wolf's secret is controlling the center of the stage and using his nasty range to push people away, eventually smashing off the sides.

My main is Toon Link (the Wolfy is the secondary). My Toon Link is very aggressive and not campy. I like to use the projectiles for mind games and keeping opponents off balance. However, Ike is very defensive and can move quickly out of his shield. His side steps and dodges are excellent too.

Sure, Ike is "slow", but a good Ike player is able close openings quickly. When I play as Toon Link, against Ike, I have to be more patient than I am with other characters. I have to read those moves very carefully. Again, a good Ike player does have openings, but they are small and hard to get. If I do land a blow in an opening, I can punish him pretty bad. At lower precents its harder, because Ike can wake up pretty qucik, and counter with a bair or foward tilt. But at higher precentages, its combo city. Toon LOVES to do bairs, among other moves too.

I agree with where Toon Link is placed. Toon Link beats Ike, but Ike does have some chance in beating him. The Ike player has to be much more patient than usual. Remember Ike people, pretty much all of Toon Links moves are usable. They will either combo you or kill you. Wolf however, DESTROYS Ike. No matter how defensive the Ike can be, Wolf can easily penetrate his defense tactics and knock Ike off the stage with ease.

 

[Zukaza]

Good job putting together this info Trebor-Nella. The thing a lot of people have to understand is that most of your information about characters is credible, saying that some characters can outmaneuver Ike and camp him to death. The truth of the matter is that it all comes down to skill in the end, yes a Snake can try camping Ike using his massive arsenal, but if the little Snake miscalculates his dodge due to the skilled Ikes Mind games. Well lets just say that his well saved rations are useless once hes dead... You've taken good notes my friend, the skilled player should take these notes and implement them to his game to further outgrow his opponents, by skill, not by character.

 

[XACE-K]

This is some good info.

 

[Ussi]

Pikachu is not evenly matched with Ike. Pikachu is a HARD MATCH UP. Thunder jolt will stop aether recovering, knock you of the stage with you hang too long, heck it makes you approach pikachu. Aerial thunder jolts make if even harder to approach. Thunder can block the STAGE making you have to get hit when recovering with quick draw at some cases. Thunder sends you up but if you have high damage, pikachu can thunder again to keep you away you try to rush in.

Thunder stops eruption as well. Being above pikachu is the worse place to be. Fair can be shielded then punished cause its easy to see coming and has start up lag. Nair you have to get too close to pikachu.

Dsmash has a lot of priority and his forward smash is faster and has as much range as Ike's. Thunder KILLS since you can't reflect it, you can block with counter at least but pikachu won't have any fear in spamming it on you when you're in the air. forward aerial to dsmash is deadly. 65%+ with a dsmash sends straight up ---> thunder = death, heck thunder can sometimes send you straight up if you get hit by it at the wrong time, meaning another thunder. I have seen people die at 20% by thunder.

If you think Ike is still evenly matched with pikachu verse my pikachu and we'll see about that. I am speaking from both being a pikachu user and versing a pikachu on par with my pikachu with my ike.

 

[flashfox]

Some things I don't like about this matchup are definitely the low Pikachu placement, Rob placement, and various others that other people have mentioned.

 

[Ussi]

Even Kirk can't defeat pikachu! He had to use snake to do so instead of Ike. As by the videos he has of the tourney he was in.

 

[DuB 22]

Meh, I like Kirk and his playstyle and he's taught me quite a few things about Ike but Silven is the best right now. His spacing and aerial approaches are very very very good. I can't really explain it but watch some of Silven's videos and the speed at which he uses Ike.

As for Pikachu, the one's I play against online, I try to stay as close as I can to them, mixing up some QD's and Nairs. It is a really difficult matchup.

 

[Ussi]

The problem with pikachu is he can QAC which makes him too fast for Ike to chase. Just QAC away and jump further away. Pikachu has really good DI from my experience. QAC is quick attack canceling which is an advance tech for pikachu for those who don't know pikachu.

heck a skilled pikachu can QAC b-reversal thunder jolt

 

[blue_dragon]

Ussi's Pikachu killed me completely. You jump to get over the jolts, and when you get close Thunder, D-smash, or F-smash is waiting for you. Ike has to play defensive against Pikachu. Maybe Sudden death will kill him, but Ike can't in most cases.

Btw, are there any quick attacks that Ike has that out-prioritizes Mach Tornado and Mach Drill?

 

[VersatileBJN]

Hi Ussi, I'm looking to fight good people in my quest to get really good at this, so please add me if you can.

2019-9339-5385

I have no real experience vs Pikachu with Ike.

I live in Jersey too so the conn should be good.

 

[Ussi]

i added you versatile, if you want AIM me at Knuckle Flare

 

[The Mediator]

Ya, all of these arguments about Pikachu are completely correct. His range on all of his moves is extremely deceptive (and his Dsmash outprioritizes GOD), and he has an annoying projectile that's a pain to avoid.

O yes, and did I mention, HIS DSMASH HAS THE PRIORITY OF... A THING WITH A CRAP LOAD OF PRIORITY!
If you attack him mid-Dsmash, and you're not properly spaced, it will CATCH YOU. And mince you into tiny electrical pieces.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Okay guys, sorry for my VERY long absence from the Ike forum. I was trying out other mains, seeing if anyone else matched my style better. Turns out that Ike's raw power and aggression is just what I'm looking for.

There will be a MAJOR overhaul of the entire first post. Many characters will be moving, and I added more detail. That most should be up in a few hours. ^^

Remember guys, the metagame is constantly changing. Keep adding imput, this is an ongoing project and will never be complete.

Edit: I changed the first post, added a move section, added more detail to many vague matchups, and moved a few characters around. First and foremost, Pikachu and ROB moved into the Tough Fights, while Zelda moved down to the Evenly Matched section.

I would also like to add, that I'm really looking for help on this project. I generally SUCK at editing and making posts "look good". I'm looking for a good partner to help me out with this thread, trying to improve grammar, increase detail on the first post, making it easier/nicer to read etc. PM me if your interested.

 

[Ussi]

Another thing to note about Pikachu is that he can chain grab Ike to 60%.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Chaingrab? I haven't seen this tactic yet! =O

How reliable is it? DDD reliable? Or "if my opponent can't DI or airdodge" reliable?

Better yet, if you can do it, show me online?

 

[Ussi]

I'm not to good at it, but Pikachu has to forward throw then dash grab ike. after 60% Ike gets knockbacked too far. I've practiced it a little on computers with their prefect timing =\ I can try to do it on you though if you want though. Computer was air dodging and landed on the ground and boom grabbed him. If computers DI then they couldn't escape a prefect timing =\

 

[Rykoshet]

It's impossible to escape up until about 60, correct. It's dedede's by comparison is a cinch to escape.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Wait, if the CPU could airdodge, does this not imply that you could jump put of the reach of the move? *raises eyebrow*

On another note... I'm noticing that buffered Rolls and Spot Dodges seem to foil the throw at 20%. It might just be my craptactular timing though. I need to find a Pikachu user that can do this flawlessly. >.>

 

[Ussi]

You know the knockback pushes you no matter what even if you air dodge at times.

and for timing you need to dash exactly when pikachu is done throwing, this timing is crucial and even more crucial for a pikachu to chain grab sonic. =\ so only the expert pikachus will be able to do this cause they have plenty of experience. Another note human has CPU reactions so i can do this easier on my guildies xD

 

[The Mediator]

The lightning rat can chain grab, too?!?!

I hope my friend doesn't find this out...

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Good god, I just got the timing down this morning. I'm 90% certain that Ike can be chain-grabbed at least to the 50's. This significantly changes the matchup, and how one should play against a Pikachu!

I'm adding this to the match-up sections now. I won't move Pikachu up in his difficultly until I get a consensus that this CG makes the matchup nigh impossible to win (and lets hope not!). As more Pikachu's learn this, I'm sure that the metagame will change significantly.

 

[Ussi]

There is a whole thread about who pikachu can chain grab on the pikachu forums, Ike is on that list.

Pikachu is lethal to fast fallers and heavy people.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

There is a whole thread about who pikachu can chain grab on the pikachu forums, Ike is on that list.

Pikachu is lethal to fast fallers and heavy people.

I know, I went straight to those boards when you told me. xD

Pikachu for top tier? xD

 

[Ussi]

I know, I went straight to those boards when you told me. xD

Pikachu for top tier? xD

actually the forth page of "pika chaingrab" is the thread xD

btw you put chain jab in the beginning of Pikachu.

Pikachu is my 2nd main so i don't mind him being top tier ^^;

only reason i see why pikachu isn't nigh impossible is because pikachu dies by 100% to Ike. If pikachu lived longer Ike is screwed =\ Diminished Fairs don't kill him till 100% though =\

video on pika's chain grab on ike:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxB2JSrvX4&feature=PlayList&p=F16EE45DA12E8A23&index=4

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

actually the forth page of "pika chaingrab" is the thread xD

btw you put chain jab in the beginning of Pikachu.

Pikachu is my 2nd main so i don't mind him being top tier ^^;

only reason i see why pikachu isn't nigh impossible is because pikachu dies by 100% to Ike. If pikachu lived longer Ike is screwed =\ Diminished Fairs don't kill him till 100% though =\

video on pika's chain grab on ike:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxB2JSrvX4&feature=PlayList&p=F16EE45DA12E8A23&index=4

This is scary stuff! You got any ideas on how to prevent this from happening? Beside "not getting grabbed" of course? xD

 

[Ussi]

well, Ike is kind of prone to be shielded grab. and since he HAS to approach, it's really hard NOT to get shield grabbed. My best bet is to make A LOT of feints. use NO laggy moves...for ike that's hard. =\ unless you can just try to survive being 60%+ with Ike always but thats kind of not fun since you're behind in damage and Pikachu kills fast because he's a powerhouse as well.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

well, Ike is kind of prone to be shielded grab. and since he HAS to approach, it's really hard NOT to get shield grabbed. My best bet is to make A LOT of feints. use NO laggy moves...for ike that's hard. =\ unless you can just try to survive being 60%+ with Ike always but thats kind of not fun since you're behind in damage and Pikachu kills fast because he's a powerhouse as well.

That sounds like like a whole lotta "get a secondary" to me! xD

I've been seriously considering Marth lately to cover matchups like these!

But on a serious note, Ike's best chance is Nairs and Bairs for approach, like I've already mentioned. I've been playing more Pikachu's, I'm seriously considering moving Pikachu up, but I'll see if we can get a third opinion on this.

 

[Ussi]

yea =\ Pikachus are dam hard =\ i asked someone from the pikachu guild to give me a match like 2 weeks ago i got owned badly. I want to try again.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

MAJOR UPDATE
I just spent a good hour or two revising the main page:

- I completed the Moves Section
- Added Light/Medium/Heavy indicators to all characters so that you know how to KO them
- Moved Pikachu up in difficulty again
- Did some minor spacing/paragraphing changes to ease reading
- Extended on some matchups


Keep the info coming guys! Soon this thread will be the go to station for Ike players wanting to know how to play better!

On a side note, I'm currently working on a Chart to make a quick visual analysis possible. Hopefully, that will be up soon. ^^

 

[ragnal]

Pits down-b (shield thingie) Can easily gimp ikes recovery at any percent, if your trying to recover with aether and he uses it at the right time it will repel aether far enough that recovery is impossible not sure how it works vs QD but i usually just get an arrow to the face when i try that =/
also yeah Pikachu is annoying beyond belief