Detailed Character Matchups *Under Construction*/Movesets/Training Guide

[Culex.]

Pits down-b (shield thingie) Can easily gimp ikes recovery at any percent, if your trying to recover with aether and he uses it at the right time it will repel aether far enough that recovery is impossible not sure how it works vs QD but i usually just get an arrow to the face when i try that =/
also yeah Pikachu is annoying beyond belief

It's Arguable That Pit Is The Strongest At Gimping Ikes Recovery, Since His Arrows Are Quick And At Larger Distances QD Requires Charging I've Been Trying To Time QDing Into Oncoming Arrows In Order To Get A Second B-Move In Order To Punish Arrow Spammers. Not Sure About The Shield Thing Though, Definately Something To Watch For.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

*Major Update*

I added a LOT of stuff today guys:

- Reformatted a lot of things to make it easier to read
- Elaborated on some moves
- Added a completely new section; Training
- Changed thread title and overall goal

I hope I can still get your continued support in improving this guide. ^^

 

[yoonkwun]

It only takes a few good hits to KO her, so set her up, and nail her hard.

Spoiler

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[WeLikeIke]

It only takes a few good hits to KO her, so set her up, and nail her hard.

Spoiler

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ROFL!

Spoiler

10 char

 

[thx]

i find falco alot harder to face than a d3 for some reason and i know everyone says snake is crazy hard to face i faced some really good snakes and its not as HARDDDDDD as everyone makes it seem (and yes i am sure they are good) but i would figure falco would be harder because his down throw chain and his lasers even tho i can still beat him by gettting in his face

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

My matchup rankings are based on two things:

1) Consensus from people on this thread who give me viable evidence. If you truly believe that Falco is a harder matchup, at least explain why beyond a few sentences. Get into detail. I have been swayed before (case and point, Pikachu).

2) My own personal experiences from gaming. A little biased, but hell, it is my guide. ^^

 

[Ussi]

I have yet to find Falco troublesome. Yet never ran into a spamming falco. So i can't say much.

But Falco doesn't have crazy range in his smashes like his counter part wolf so i don't see the trouble. dthrown chain hmm..yet to have to see that in action. I'll have to test that out. Just shield and roll since Falco is NOT wolf. He can't do a crazy smash or hurt you with his blaster like wolf can.

 

[VersatileBJN]

D3 is not a very hard match up from my experience. Does it favor D3? Probably. I would say it's a 6/4 match up in Ike's favor, but maybe even even.

The best way to beat D3 is simple: don't get thrown. With how well Ike can spacce his nair and fair, this is not an impossible task. D3 has a decent amount of lag on many moves that Ike can punish with his jab combo, fair, and forward tilt.

Waddle Dees are not very hard to avoid. I think often times people mistake hard for annoying. For example, wolf turtling with his gun really isnt difficult to avoid, just annoying. The same is for the waddle dees I feel. Are they good? Yes, but walk-sheilding gets you past them and close to D3 pretty quickly.

Spacing nair well so you are just RIGHT outside of grab range makes this a decent fight for Ike, can defensive fairs are amazing.

I don't know, I just don't think its an insanely hard match up. I would put it in hard.

D3 also has a hard time putting people away in my opinion.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Also, if it means anything, Azen's Ike tends to be M2K's D3,

Though honestly I don't know how good M2K's D3 is.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

D3 is not a very hard match up from my experience. Does it favor D3? Probably. I would say it's a 6/4 match up in Ike's favor, but maybe even even.

The best way to beat D3 is simple: don't get thrown. With how well Ike can spacce his nair and fair, this is not an impossible task. D3 has a decent amount of lag on many moves that Ike can punish with his jab combo, fair, and forward tilt.

Waddle Dees are not very hard to avoid. I think often times people mistake hard for annoying. For example, wolf turtling with his gun really isnt difficult to avoid, just annoying. The same is for the waddle dees I feel. Are they good? Yes, but walk-sheilding gets you past them and close to D3 pretty quickly.

Spacing nair well so you are just RIGHT outside of grab range makes this a decent fight for Ike, can defensive fairs are amazing.

I don't know, I just don't think its an insanely hard match up. I would put it in hard.

D3 also has a hard time putting people away in my opinion.

I have too disagree with practically ever arguement you've made.

N-airs do not have enough range to avoid a shield-grab from DDD. His shield grab range is just to darn long. Remember that a grab = chain-grabbed across the stage in this case. And even if he DOESN'T shield-grab, power-shielding lets him F-tilt, which hurts more and has more range.

Fairs aren't a good bet either, as F-tilt WILL get you. Power-shielding reduces lag enough that he can grab you, leading to the chain-grab again.

QD? Only works when they don't see it coming. If they do, face full of F-tilt or shield-grabbed.

And Waddledee's aren't "hard". I said they forced an approach, which is all that they are designed to do. Forcing to approach is never a good thing, especially on character that outranges you.

Essentially, Ike is all about spacing right? DDD outspaces you AND has a projectile to bait. He represents everything Ike doesn't want to see.

Maybe your just not playing good enough DDD's?

 

[VersatileBJN]

Maybe. CO18 has a really solid D3. I haven't beaten him yet, but the few matches we've had I've been doing better.

Im gonna fight Jman soon, considered the best D3 in NY. I'll see how it goes.

What D3's have you fought?

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I couldn't tell you. Almost all the DDD's I've played have been online, using a ranking site called Smashbrawlrankings.com. Most of them are players I've never even heard of, but have fairly high (top 100) ranks.

Though, I generally technically suck in game. My fingers have never really been that fast. I REALLY blew at Melee's technical aspect. No matter how much I practiced, I could only ever do sloppy wave-dashes and L-Cancels, and I practiced for hours... several days a week... for years xD. I always relied on mind-games and superior knowledge. However, Brawl is forgiving for my lack of digital dexterity, and Ike even more so. Online matches kill me though, I loose a lot of my normal psychological analysis I rely on as well.

However, I can tell you that the DDD"s I loose to tend to kick my *** because I can't outrange them like Ike needs to. A normal approach doesn't fair well versus them. If the DDD's online aren't beating you consistently, I would assume its due to lag. If you're playing them in person, well... I don't know why. The only thing I can think of that their defensive game isn't developed enough. xD

 

[VersatileBJN]

Well I dont now where CO18 ranks on SBR as one of the best D3's, but he's really defensive and rarley ever messes up the chain. When I've adapted to him and really focuses its down to the wire.

I don't know, I feel a lot of people play Ike incorrect. I am not saying you. I know I'm no where near my full potential with Ike and have a lot to learn, but I simply don't see this is as bad as a match up as people think. I actually think a lot of match ups that people deem insanely difficult for Ike really aren't. Snake included. If it means anything, I've beaten the nunber 1 ranked user Tapion, a snake player, on SBR a few times, and when I haven't the fight was down to the last stock.

People say you have to play Ike aggressively. I don't agree with this. I believe Ike is a defensive character who needs to be close. I know that sounds dumb, but I feel it's true. This is his weakness, but also his strength.

Working your way towards the opponent(fairly simple unless the opponent has a projectile, and then just ANNOYING not hard) and maintaining space while forcing their hand is what Ike is all about.

Getting close, and forcing the opponent to make a move while maintaing a defenisve stance. They shield? Grab. They spot dodge? AAA(hold). They approach or roll? fade away Fair, fade away nair, spot dodge, block, jump, etc.

I rarely make the first move with Ike. That's just asking for trouble. I feel when you space well and force the opponents hand with defensive pressure(like Azen does), Ike becomes a lot better than what people give him credit for.

In my opinion Ike's worst match up is actually Pikachu. I'd rather fight Snake,Falco,D3 than Pikachu anyday. I've yet to fight a good Pikachu, but I can tell sinply by fighting people who arent even as good as me that a good Pikachu is not something Ike wants to deal with.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Well I dont now where CO18 ranks on SBR as one of the best D3's, but he's really defensive and rarley ever messes up the chain. When I've adapted to him and really focuses its down to the wire.

I don't know, I feel a lot of people play Ike incorrect. I am not saying you are. I know I'm nowhere near my full potential with Ike and I have a lot to learn, but I simply don't see this is as bad as a match up as people think. I actually think a lot of match ups that people deem insanely difficult for Ike really aren't. Snake included. If it means anything, I've beaten the number 1 ranked user Tapion, a snake player, on SBR a few times, and when I haven't the fight was down to the last stock.

People say you have to play Ike aggressively. I don't agree with this. I believe Ike is a defensive character who needs to be close. I know that sounds dumb, but I feel it's true. This is his weakness, but also his strength.

Working your way towards the opponent(fairly simple unless the opponent has a projectile, and then just ANNOYING not hard) and maintaining space while forcing their hand is what Ike is all about.

Getting close, and forcing the opponent to make a move while maintaing a defenisve stance. They shield? Grab. They spot dodge? AAA(hold). They approach or roll? fade away Fair, fade away nair, spot dodge, block, jump, etc.

I rarely make the first move with Ike. That's just asking for trouble. I feel when you space well and force the opponents hand with defensive pressure(like Azen does), Ike becomes a lot better than what people give him credit for.

In my opinion Ike's worst match up is actually Pikachu. I'd rather fight Snake,Falco,D3 than Pikachu anyday. I've yet to fight a good Pikachu, but I can tell sinply by fighting people who arent even as good as me that a good Pikachu is not something Ike wants to deal with.

I concur about Pikachu, he jumped from Evenly Matched to Ridiculously Hard in a matter of days due to developing metagame. Chain grabs and Quick Attack Cancels just made that matchup gay.

Another thing I think might affect our opinions is straight up amount of practice. I have maybe 5 matches (best 2 of 3) against DDD's. Snake, I have significantly more (you know Tapion right? I've faced his Snake way to many times). These players of course, could have all been significantly better than I, leading me to believe that Ike stood no chance, when really it was MYSELF who didn't stand a chance. More food for thought.

Thanks for you imput though. The Matchup section always needs improving. As new players/playstyles/discoveries arise, the game changes and so does the Matchup section. Depending on how that other thread goes, Marth might be moving up soon. xD

 

[Atacusbebop123]

nice thred

 

[Ussi]

well something i noticed when fighting metaknight, Usmash undimished and charged for like 1/2 a second kills metaknight at 55% I hit him when he was gliding back trying to glide attack me. now thats light.

 

[comboking]

can I put some of this in my guide now

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

can I put some of this in my guide now

I feel confident in my info now, so I give you permission to use any info in this guide. The more "good" info we can spread in the Ike forum, the better. I'll do anything in my power to keep it from becoming like the Roy boards.

However, I will allow you to do this only on one condition; you must give me credit, and not just in one quick line. Make it noticeable. Best way to do that would be to mimic my font in the sections you borrow (which is Book Antiqua/Size 2/Royal Blue), and add a large disclaimer at the top of the section that your borrowing stating my name, and a quick link to this thread. I don't want all my hard work to be accredited to someone else and this thread forgotten. =/


On another note, an update is in the works for tomorrow. Expect all the sections to be tinkered with a bit, and maybe a few cosmetic changes, but I'm pretty sure I have it looking pretty easy to read and understand... hopefully!

 

[comboking]

alright I will put it in my guide tomorrow I will even put a link to your thread in it and i will give you a whole pargraph of credit

 

[Ussi]

With this new Boost specials, Mario might become a pain with boosted side B ---> FLUDD. heck his side might flip you away anyways or spike you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yCkv2A4Oe9s

thats Mario's Cape boosting. this makes QD USELESS TO RECOVER IF YOUR NOT GOING OVER MARIO.

if you want to read more on boost specials it here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158881

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

With this new Boost specials, Mario might become a pain with boosted side B ---> FLUDD. heck his side might flip you away anyways or spike you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yCkv2A4Oe9s

thats Mario's Cape boosting. this makes QD USELESS TO RECOVER IF YOUR NOT GOING OVER MARIO.

if you want to read more on boost specials it here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158881

Have I told you I love you lately? =D

You have been the greatest help to this thread, hands down. Thanks a ton for discovering this info. I'm sure that as the metagame develops, these techniques will be more useful, and greatly affect the matchups.

*cough* Who were those people that said we wouldn't be finding techniques a month after release? Heck, we're finding more in this month than we have in the first month! xD

And once again, I love you. =D

On a side note, I DO have another update in works, mainly aimed at Matchups, and I'm working on another training tip. Thanks for all the support guys!

 

[Ussi]

well i keep a look out on new techniques discovered and see how they affect a match up. And since this is a match up thread i give what i find here. And i make sure when i give info, i make sure i have sources and i even test it myself too.

 

[metroid1117]

Trebor-Nella, do you have an All is Brawl account? The Ike forums there really need a thread like this >.>. If you don't mind, could I copy+paste this thread and put it on the Ike forums over there? I'll give you full credit for it, or you could just do it yourself.

 

[comboking]

after you update this sent me a pm and i will at it to my guide

 

[FightCity]

Well I dont now where CO18 ranks on SBR as one of the best D3's, but he's really defensive and rarley ever messes up the chain. When I've adapted to him and really focuses its down to the wire.

I don't know, I feel a lot of people play Ike incorrect. I am not saying you. I know I'm no where near my full potential with Ike and have a lot to learn, but I simply don't see this is as bad as a match up as people think. I actually think a lot of match ups that people deem insanely difficult for Ike really aren't. Snake included. If it means anything, I've beaten the nunber 1 ranked user Tapion, a snake player, on SBR a few times, and when I haven't the fight was down to the last stock.

People say you have to play Ike aggressively. I don't agree with this. I believe Ike is a defensive character who needs to be close. I know that sounds dumb, but I feel it's true. This is his weakness, but also his strength.

Working your way towards the opponent(fairly simple unless the opponent has a projectile, and then just ANNOYING not hard) and maintaining space while forcing their hand is what Ike is all about.

Getting close, and forcing the opponent to make a move while maintaing a defenisve stance. They shield? Grab. They spot dodge? AAA(hold). They approach or roll? fade away Fair, fade away nair, spot dodge, block, jump, etc.

I rarely make the first move with Ike. That's just asking for trouble. I feel when you space well and force the opponents hand with defensive pressure(like Azen does), Ike becomes a lot better than what people give him credit for.

In my opinion Ike's worst match up is actually Pikachu. I'd rather fight Snake,Falco,D3 than Pikachu anyday. I've yet to fight a good Pikachu, but I can tell sinply by fighting people who arent even as good as me that a good Pikachu is not something Ike wants to deal with.

I thought I was the only one who plays Ike like this.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Update is halfway done.

I extended the Training section. It includes how to train your defensive game through DI and Evasive Maneuvers. This may seem trivial for some, but remember, this guide is aimed at newbs as much as vets.

I also elaborated on some of the moves, notable U-tilt and Jabs.

I'm currently working on overhauling the Matchup section. You may have noticed the threads I've started in the character specific boards. Once I collect this info, I'll work on improving the match-up section again.

Thanks again for the continued support. Hopefully I can get a sticky sometime soon! xD

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

You may have noticed the threads I've started in the character specific boards. Once I collect this info, I'll work on improving the match-up section again.

LOL, you took the idea I had a while back for the Olimar boards (sort of). You should link the threads somewhere for easy reference, like I did. Possibly in a thread where you can generate discussion in your board on what the other guys are saying.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

LOL, you took the idea I had a while back for the Olimar boards (sort of). You should link the threads somewhere for easy reference, like I did. Possibly in a thread where you can generate discussion in your board on what the other guys are saying.

Good idea. *Copies*

If anything, it'll just make it easier to check all the threads. >.>

 

[Tenki]

Jeez, this went down to page 3.

how's that update coming along?

 

[comboking]

hey did you change you name FishkeeperTimmay!

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Yes, I did change my username. One of those weird perks for getting premium memberships.

And that update is coming very, very slowly. Between my new job, TWO!?!?!? new tanks and drama with my girlfriend's mother, I've been far too busy to actually sit down and reanalyze the metagame and how it affects Ike.

Though, I'm sure when I redo the thread, its going to look very different. If anyone has been reading my other threads, I have a very pessimistic view of Ike as a competitive character. I use Marth and Falco now, so my Ike knowledge is becoming less and less up-to-date. Heck, if anyone wants to take my guide as it is, I would gladly let someone else take over this guide in there own thread. They would probably do a better job just out of plain loyalty.

 

[comboking]

I will add this to my guide when it is finished
OK

 

[ama(m/t)]

i loev fishtanks too except i'm @ college so even having my 10G here is pushing it

55g and 29g @ home

 

[VEC]

I think Luigi should go in the easy or the evenly matched region, for the sole reason that he is easy to kill. He's not an incredibly heavy or powerful character at all, and Ike easily outranges him. I find that once you rack up some damage on Luigi, and then get a solid Fsmash off, then he's pretty much dead.

Great thread, I've been waiting for one of these =)

Yea Ike does have na advantage on Luigi, just like the chart says in tactical discussion.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Hey Ike Boards...

After my long absence, I was looking through the Ike boards and noticed just how downhill they have gone.

I felt bad, especially when I read one of the better thread, saw the link to this thread, and saw a comment along the lines of "Probably one of the best match up guides, but sadly FishkeeperTimmay is long gone."

I won't lie, I played Marth all this time. I was trying to be tournament viable. True be told, I am. However, I'm not enjoying Brawl as much as I enjoyed Melee. I think its because I'm playing the character that I don't want to. I really WANT to be playing Ike.

So, just out of curiosity, who would like me to start playing Ike again seriously, revive this thread and add one more useful thread to this Forum?

 

[TwentyTwo]

Honestly anyone with dedication, and the drive to help progress Ike's metagame would be much appreciated. What you're asking is hard to answer, because what you'll find here are 3 types of people. People who are here to simply mock Ike and things of that nature. Second, people who play Ike despite his setbacks and weaknesses and fight to progress his game. Third, there are new guys whether they are here to learn or to just make pointless threads about how l337 they are.

Here's my answer in short. If you're here to help, more power to ya! If not then gtfo.

 

[Rutger]

Hey, If you want to play Ike than you should.

I think it would be great to have this worked on again, the Ike board needs all the help it can get. It's up to you though, you can always play Marth as well as Ike if you don't think Ike will get you far alone(it is wise to have a secondary anyways).

So if you want to play as Ike then go ahead. I am sure many of us will appreciate what you contribute to the board.

 

[mazhaoshen]

I would definitely appreciate it, I've been an Ike main since Brawl's release and your guide/advice has been a huge help for me. =)

 

[comboking]

I do have a match up guide its in the index thread if you want to check it out

 

[Ussi]

heh, Timmay, i use Ike, and i go to tournies myself. Any character can be tourney viable, you just need to have really good mind games. Although you did great with your psychology thread in the Marth boards.

btw Ike has like....a few good match ups. So yea xD to win with Ike you got to be really really good.