DDD Social: we livin' in smash 4

[~ Gheb ~]

So yesterday atomsk went 1-1 with Salem's ZSS before switching to Falco and losing. A player named Akuma put QuiKsilver's ZSS into losers with DDD and McGriddle also lost to Coney. Seems like all the best active ZSS players have lost to a DDD at some point. Why is this match-up in ZSS' favor again?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

up ai r

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I asked why it's in her favor.

Not what prevents her from getting completely wrecked.

 

[Doc King]

I'm sorry doc. Good players tend to focus first and foremost on solid fundamentals and tactics that work on all or most character/players, and then match up specific stuf against the best or biggest problem characters. In terms of ranking over all importance, the vast majority of stuff you talk about ranks about the same as that 'uses for jet hammer' thread that I read a while back.

I actually do agree with this post. That really did answer my question and that's what I was asking. The thing is that I'm probably going too deep and frame advancing and theorying because of how limited this games metagame is.

I'm just gonna have to accept that this game will probably never become amazing like the 2 other smash games and regular fighters.

Didn't anyone know about this new AT called the Akuma jump? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=322365&highlight=frame+data

I've heard that Dedede can land a dair perfectly without lag on the BF platform.

 

[allshort17]

I actually do agree with this post. That really did answer my question and that's what I was asking. The thing is that I'm probably going too deep and frame advancing and theorying because of how limited this games metagame is.

I'm just gonna have to accept that this game will probably never become amazing like the 2 other smash games and regular fighters.

Didn't anyone know about this new AT called the Akuma jump? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=322365&highlight=frame+data

I've heard that Dedede can land a dair perfectly without lag on the BF platform.

He already could Dair perfectly onto the BF platform without the Akuma jump. It's in Technical_Chase's guide. Did you mean he can lagless dair off a platform using the Akuma jump because if so I would abuse that to the fullest?

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Yes that is what he means. I feel the akuma jump has some real potential for ddd to be used in actual tourneys. The akuma jump allows you to auto cancel your down air from a battle field platform to the ground.

 

[Doc King]

Akuma jump looks like a way for Dedede to like protect himself and use quick attacks like Pikachu's Quick attack cancel. Along with that Dedede can full hop dair onto a platform with no landing lag. Along with his fast falling and good air attacks, BF could end up being a good starter for the King. I wonder if up air can do the same with the akuma dair jump.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I have doubts about this being overly useful for Dedede.

However, its worth investigating. Plus, I need a new project anyway.

I'm gonna do that thing I do and research. If I find any real applications for this, I'll make a thread and it will be awesome. If not, then I'm just gonna tell you guys here. I might talk with Akuma again as well for leads.

And back to the lab I go.

 

[Exdeath]

I asked why it's in her favor.

Not what prevents her from getting completely wrecked.

ZSS' risk-reward at neutral is considerably better at low % (ZSS has chain grabs and/or option-select juggles to take DDD's first 50%) and kill % (DDD shouldn't kill ZSS from neutral unless he reads her rolling into him or ZSS flat-out makes a mistake) than DDD's is. ZSS gets more reward from follow-ups in the air; DDD should pretty much always get hit on his follow-up thanks to his landing options being so bad and ZSS' juggles being so good. Even if you take a "which one is more difficult to play" stand point, ZSS' mistakes ~mid-level and up stop hurting as much as DDD's. If DDD's Bair wasn't so good at killing ZSS on his momentum/edge guarding, I would probably think that it's a hard counter.

I honestly think that it's a case of you having to have played Nick Riddle in order to understand. IIRC Seibrik gets wrecked in the MU and uses Wario instead. For the players on the DDD boards, Coney, DewDaDash and I have both played NR and the latter two both got wrecked (two stocked). To put it in comparison, I never took more than one stock vs. him as DDD, but took a couple of games with MK (until he re-adapted and started wrecking that consistently too). For comparison, I only recently started losing to other ZSS players as DDD, which is linked more to me only playing Brawl a few times in the past 6 months (almost entirely in tournament) than it is to the match-up/metagame changing. ZSS is a character that tends to require high-execution and as such can really only be considered at the top level of play. Citing a single set that ended with a silly SD is a bad idea, and I find it curious that you took Atomsk switching FROM DDD as a sign that DDD has an advantage...

 

[Coney]

zss generally just has a lower (higher?) risk/reward ratio than ddd in the matchup, it's really just that simple...she boxes out mid-range really well and makes getting in very difficult for a big target.

as for the akuma jump, i personally think it'd be hella useful (mid-sized target in between two battlefield plats/next to returning SV plat, easy dair into pivot grab/bair depending on situation). i'll start implementing it soon for sure

also WHAT ^^^^^^^

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=323243

good news : didn't lose a set all day!
bad news : didn't actually play logic, just split and let him have 1st since idgaf

 

[Exdeath]

Good stuff Coney.

 

[DewDaDash]

Meh, I just feel like I personally never practice the MU since no1 plays the character so I don't really know what to do against it. I could probably do a lot better against if if I knew how to edge guard her properly and such and just what options are best in general. I'm not saying I'd win the set, but could probably at least get it down to 1 stock consistently. Using me as an example is pretty bad, I mm'd NR knowing I'd lose a long time ago, only did it so I can understand my options more since last person I played was dtorr's zss in tourney and although he's good, hes not on NR's caliber (thats the only zss I've lost to), therefore I had more to learn.

 

[Exdeath]

Meh, I just feel like I personally never practice the MU since no1 plays the character so I don't really know what to do against it. I could probably do a lot better against if if I knew how to edge guard her properly and such and just what options are best in general. I'm not saying I'd win the set, but could probably at least get it down to 1 stock consistently. Using me as an example is pretty bad, I mm'd NR knowing I'd lose a long time ago, only did it so I can understand my options more since last person I played was dtorr's zss in tourney and although he's good, hes not on NR's caliber (thats the only zss I've lost to), therefore I had more to learn.

I was only using you as an example because you're one of the few DDDs on this forums who has played against him. D-Torr is bad vs. DDD in general.

 

[DewDaDash]

IIRC though, I usually get NR down to 1 stock low percent in tourney atleast (don't really remember the mm we had but remember that didnt go too well). He usually commands the lead the whole time and though I try, I can never really find the way to turn the momentum around.

If you know what I'm doing wrong, by all means tell me lol.

 

[Exdeath]

IIRC though, I usually get NR down to 1 stock low percent in tourney atleast (don't really remember the mm we had but remember that didnt go too well). He usually commands the lead the whole time and though I try, I can never really find the way to turn the momentum around.

If you know what I'm doing wrong, by all means tell me lol.

IIRC you were playing really well and got him down to 1 stock low % and 2 stock high % in the MM (we both MMed him). I don't even remember how the matches went other than that.

 

[DewDaDash]

ur probably right. Only times I've played him in tourney were like once 4 years ago and another time in miami like 2 years ago or something. But yeah I was mostly just playing that mm to understand how to win rather than trying to win if that makes sense. Unfortunately I didn't really learn much and just wasted 5$ =/ I did the same thing with Snipa btw and you know how that went >_>"

But anyways, I'll give that AT a shot. Its implementation looks useful especially against falco. I just need to figure out the difficulty of such an AT but it doesnt seem too bad, will have to try that out later.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

maybe i been gone for too long.

recently comin back to ddd for some snake countering/maybe ike cuz wario is tooo annoying in those mu's now, least vs mvd/ryo



what's an akuma jump?

 

[Exdeath]

maybe i been gone for too long.

recently comin back to ddd for some snake countering/maybe ike cuz wario is tooo annoying in those mu's now, least vs mvd/ryo



what's an akuma jump?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=322365&highlight=frame+data

 

[allshort17]

what's an akuma jump?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=322365

You should play him in every match-up. Like against Nick Riddle so we can solve our debate on how bad ZSS truly is for Dedede.

ninja'd

 

[shaSLAM]

SHOUTOUTS TO DOC

just because

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I believe I have refined something that if I am correct about (so far my track record has been pretty legit)...will make Dedede's MUs that he can CG in so much gayer. I'm gonna have to summon Aerodrome for confirmation on this.

 

[Doc King]

What is it that you refined?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I just got a guy that constantly attends to local tournaments to rage.
As I am trying to practice DDD, I sticked to him.
He picked DK. After I infinte'd him, he picked Mario.
I felt like a terrible person at that moment....

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

You'll find out soon. Keeping it on the DL now.

I PMed Aero so if he accepts my job, we'll both be working on it and I think we'll have some positive results for a universally practical technique.

And lol its not your fault your friend plays characters that are invalidated by Dedede, Pamuyo.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I have work right now, but you'll have all the information you need before tomorrow morning (your time).

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

 

[C.J.]

/interested and stalking DDD boards now

 

[KuroganeHammer]

My house was assaulted by an ice cream truck.

I'll have to do this stuff tomorrow.

Sincerest apologies~

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Wait...what?

Hope everything is okay.

/notsurehowtorespond

And lol at the C.J. appearance.

 

[DewDaDash]

I feel that a DDD discussion is in check one of these days. Like just a group AIM convo or something. I feel that ddd isn't progressing at all within our players as fast as it should (has nothing to do with ATs). I'd like to give ya guys a few pointers to whoever is willing to listen.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

We could schedule an AIM or Skype meeting or something. I'm definitely down. I feel as if I rarely perform to the best of abilities. But I just need to improve period. Another perspective is always welcome.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd love to take part in these sessions. Unfortunately, I live in a bad timezone for that.

 

[allshort17]

I'm down for discussion.

 

[DewDaDash]

I'd be down for around 11:30pm Eastern time today after the celtics game is done if ya want or some other time that works for every1.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I could do tonight.

 

[Coney]

inv me i guess if you guys do it

skype name:

coneyzzzzz (five z's)

skype name is dolan though so don't be surprised if i am donald duck

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Damn that sounds like fun. I would love to be a part of this just to listen to you guys. I would just some up your knowledge like a leach.

 

[DewDaDash]

whenever u guys are ready, skype or aim. I'm in a good mood cuz the celtics won woohoo

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm here. I prefer Skype.

"technical_chase"

Shoot me a request ill be on in a few.

 

[allshort17]

I'm getting on after I'm done watching Naruto. Probably 15 minutes. I'm still allshort17 on there if anyone wanted to add me.