Customs, EVO, and Making Sets

[Amazing Ampharos]

So, I've been running around ramping things up the past few days, but I think we need a new thread to make things clear and move things forward. Customs seem nearly inevitably legal at EVO. Mr. Wizard has made several remarks on twitter that have set what is essentially an impossible barrier for the anti-custom side to meet for them to be banned at EVO. My personal understanding is that the conditions under which customs would be banned are for either of the following to happen by March 27:

-The community as a group (not just top players, the whole community) rejects them. With customs currently polling at 80% approval, this seems impossible.
-Some other reason is found that they simply cannot be used. We've solved the logistics, and "X is too powerful" is an argument that seems likely to go exactly nowhere with a tournament series built on the backbone of years of MvC2. It seems incredibly unlikely anyone will make a case to this effect.

I do not have a personal line of communication with him or the EVO staff; everything I know is from his public statements and I am in no way affiliated with EVO or their staff (other than that I plan to attend as a competitor!). However, he did say this in his interview with Capps:

JC: We use the game consoles that APEX used. They have all the Wii U consoles stored, and whatever the current decision is on March 27, 2015, we will relay that information to Gaming Generation, and get them all on the consoles in time for Evo. We plan to use whatever custom ruleset the community wants, and it seems @@Amazing Ampharos is leading the charge in that regards. I would head on over to that thread on SmashBoards and give input so that everyone can be happy.

This makes it clear that his intention is that my project is what he's going to be looking to for sets. He has also made it clear in other posts that imports on the day of the tournament will not be allowed; only pre-built pre-sets will be legal at EVO. It is also clear that many other tournaments are beginning to use customs, including but far from limited to this national scale tournament that is less than two months away:

http://smashboards.com/threads/apr-...-national-armada-mew2king-pc-tempe-az.390548/

This is our current situation, and I feel the context of it puts responsibility on me to lead the situation to the best possible outcome for us which is having the best possible sets ready.

We are going to fill all 10 slots for each character with the best custom movesets we can. Including default, this will give every character access to 11/81 of the possible movesets that character can have. We must cover every possible counterpicking situation and player preference we can with our space. This requires adding four sets to most characters in the current project, and even beyond that, it's an unfortunate truth that in the original project some characters were given a much better array of sets than others and need fixed. The two least useful of the 10 sets will be designated as "optional" for the purpose of events that wish to allow on the spot uploading of sets, but this project's position is that events like EVO that do not allow on the spot uploading would be well advised to consider all 10 sets equally important.

This is where you guys come in; we're revising the project as of right now to make sure these sets are perfect. There are topics on every character board from last time for this purpose, and you can find a link to your favorite character's topic here:

Spoiler: Links to individual character discussion

http://smashboards.com/threads/bowsers-top-8-custom-movesets.380017/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-bowser-jr.380322/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-captain-falcon.380323/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-charizard.380324/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-dark-pit.380325/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-diddy-kong.380326/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-donkey-kong.380327/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-dr-mario.380328/

http://smashboards.com/threads/submit-your-entry-for-the-top-8-custom-sets-of-duck-hunt.379612/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-falco.380331/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-fox.380332/

http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorfs-top-8-custom-movesets.379812/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-greninja.380333/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-ike.380335/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-jigglypuff.380336/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-king-dedede.380337/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-project-ver-1.380104/

http://smashboards.com/threads/top-8-max-custom-sets-for-link.380198/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-little-mac.380341/

http://smashboards.com/threads/lets-talk-about-customs.379598/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-lucina.380343/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-the-mysterious-mr-l.380345/

http://smashboards.com/threads/evo-legalized-customs-so-lets-talk-about-them.392000/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-marth.380347/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-mega-man-revamp-poll.388486/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-meta-knight.380349/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-mr-game-watch.380350/

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-customs-project-ness-edition.380063/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-olimar-alph.380353/

http://smashboards.com/threads/pacman-top-8-customs.379978/

http://smashboards.com/threads/palutena-custom-move-discussion.371667/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-peach.380356/

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-custom-choosing-pikachus-custom-sets-for-tournaments.380338/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-pit.380358/

http://smashboards.com/threads/offi...veset-project-robotic-operating-buddy.380359/

http://smashboards.com/threads/common-custom-special-presets-survey.380329/

http://smashboards.com/threads/rosalina-custom-sets-electric-boogaloo.390886/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-samus.380361/

http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-making-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.380049/

http://smashboards.com/threads/shul...n-2-0-currently-discussing-hyper-arts.391483/

http://smashboards.com/threads/submit-your-entry-for-the-top-8-custom-sets-of-sonic.379613/

http://smashboards.com/threads/toon-links-top-8-custom-movesets.380153/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-villager.380367/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-wario.380368/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-wii-fit-trainer.380369/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-yoshi.380370/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-zelda.380372/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-zero-suit-samus.380373/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-mii-brawler.380374/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-mii-gunner.380375/

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-mii-swordfighter.380376/

If any of these links are bad, let me know; I pulled them from an older list I had and fixed a few characters I knew were using different threads.

I'd like to ask everyone who is interested in their character having the best customs he, she, or it can have to contribute to the appropriate thread. The basic process here is very simple; the community discusses and hopefully agrees on whatever is best for that character, and we internally use the results of that as best we can applying human judgment and our own smash knowledge when necessary to resolve disagreements or fill in for places where we just don't get enough input. It should be clear the intention is very definitely massive deference to the public's will; regardless of how I personally feel about any specific moves, what the mains of a character have to say will always take priority over that.

We have a deadline, a very serious one. EVO rulesets MUST be finalized by March 27. There is no give or take on this at all; if we don't have things together by that date, it's unpredictable what decision Mr. Wizard will make but seems incredibly likely it will be one that makes us less happy than we'll be if we just have things done on time. I am saying right now we need to look at our real deadline as March 17. That gives us 10 days of extra time for the unexpected as well as a bit of time for those on the inside to compile what everyone is saying into a neat list.

The internal process in the past was just me personally making all final decisions unilaterally and doing 100% of the organizational work personally. That is not sane and is not reasonable. No matter how smart I like to think I am, I'm still just one guy, and like most guys, I'm routinely wrong about many things. The workload of keeping up with 51+ conversations is also honestly insane; I had to pull multiple all-nighters to make the original project work, and that's both not a good choice for me personally and not the kind of plan that will allow the best work to be done for the community. With the stakes being as high as they are, I'm bringing in help on these fronts. I am at this time not ready to provide the fine details here, but final decision making on things is not going to be happening until mid-March so there's time and as that time comes we will be very, very transparent about this. This project is 100% about the community, and any work done by us is all about respecting the will of the community and not about establishing any kind of authority.

There are three major things I imagine some people are thinking about:

1. The Mewtwo factor definitely weighs on my mind. Mewtwo could easily release sometime in March; no one really knows. If Mewtwo comes out at any time before March 27, he will be included in this project. If he comes out very close to March 27 we may have to work in a very big hurry to include him, but if we are given any possibly opportunity at all to make sets for him at all we will. Don't worry about him.

2. Mii Fighters are a big concern here as well and a discussion we need to have. Currently many regions either do not allow them at all or limit them to only their default size. Logistically there's no reason we can't include any arbitrary Mii Fighters in this project; @ John12346 has volunteered to produce QR codes for any Miis that are necessary so particular non-default sizes can easily be spread around, and once a Mii Fighter is made on the 3ds and uploaded to the Wii U as a custom moveset, it can be selected with no fuss or extra time cost. If nothing happens to suggest otherwise and the situation remains murky, it is my intention to assume Mii Fighters might be able to be any size and to aggressively court the community that mains these characters for size preferences and to include it in the movesets along with the four special moves. If it becomes clear that either EVO rules or community preference are against this, we'll adjust accordingly for that.

3. Some people may support banning specific custom moves (notably Mii Brawler: Piston Punch and Olimar: Order Tackle). I have done some serious soul searching on these issues, and I believe the only response I can give is as follows. The project itself has no official position on the merit of banning or not banning particularly buggy special moves; it is simply not our place. However, we recognize that the nature of EVO means that whatever we fail to include is effectively banned as it will not be possible to select. We will defer heavily to the collective will of the community on these two moves in order to maintain neutrality; if the playerbase feels that Piston Punch and/or Order Tackle should not be given sets as long as their behavior is what it is currently, we will exclude them on that basis. If that is not the popular sentiment, they will be treated like any other move and may be included in sets if they otherwise warrant inclusion (and it seems likely both would be good enough to include in at least some sets even if neither is the dominant option).

I know this is already long in the tooth, but I would like to ask you guys to do one more favor for me in addition to contributing your collective knowledge to building these sets. Please help spread the word! The smash community in 2015 is scattered; Smashboards is my home and is the best hub in the scene by far to organize a project like this. I know many of you are connected to scenes on reddit and facebook and perhaps other places about which I am just plain less aware. If you can use your connections in those areas to draw in more input and make sure all 51 characters get the attention they deserve, I'd deeply appreciate it. Thank you for putting up with my habit of making yet another post that is way too long, and I look forward to the continued development of custom moves in smash 4.

Original custom project thread can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-initial-release.381395/

 

[HeroMystic]

@ Amazing Ampharos

Use this thread for Mario: http://smashboards.com/threads/evo-legalized-customs-so-lets-talk-about-them.392000/

I understand you'd like for us to use your official moveset project thread, but the thread is for the project specifically and my thread is for the sake of informing users of Mario's customs and how they benefit him. We'll only use the project thread to give any finalized sets.

Since it's possible many high/top level Mario players (Ally included) has not used customs, it's imperative we focus on giving concrete information before finalizing any sets.

 

[webbedspace]

Is there any plan in place, though, if Mewtwo is delayed until April or worse? I guess there's no choice then but to blindly bet like this:

2111
1211
1121
1112
3111
1311
1131
1113
2222
3333

This, of course, is generously assuming that three of its 1-moves will at least be viable, with only a single custom to patch its gameplan - otherwise 2222 and 3333 are the dubious emergency fallbacks.

 

[John12346]

As mentioned, I'm going to be assisting in this project too. Between testing out Mii heights and weights to be completely optimized by whatever their discussions provide, helping to provide support in general with my region, and discussing which sets appear to be the best/most agreed upon by all of the different character boards, I'm ready to make sure this project goes all the way.

It's a shame I won't be able to go to EVO myself, but being broke can suck sometimes...

Also, since this is a project directly related to EVO, and we need participation from everyone we can, it would really help if we could get this stickied. In addition, it would also serve if people could help spread this around via social media outlets(facebook, twitter, you know). In addition to helping draw in more conversation, we gotta make sure EVO catches wind of what we're doing(creating 10 custom sets for each character before that deadline), so the more exposure this can get, the better.

 

[Raijinken]

I'll start dipping into the character boards (finally), since I dabble in so many. Let me know if there are other direct ways I can help.

 

[Zzuxon]

All right, I'll contribute some Pac suggestions.
I would reccommend Pac get 2131, and then 3 sets with up special 2.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If I have time today, I'll test out some of Greninja and Shulk. Maybe Ike too if we need it. I haven't used customs much, so this really interests me.

 

[DarthLuigi36]

I am currently working on getting a consensus on Captain Falcon's sets with the board. We have six that are basically guaranteed, but the final four are tricky.

 

[digiholic]

All right, I'll contribute some Pac suggestions.
I would reccommend Pac get 2131, and then 3 sets with up special 2.

This isn't the place for that. Go to the Pac-Man thread on his board.

 

[Kurogal]

This also might not be the right place to ask this, but are there any characters that haven't had much testing done for their custom moves, both in general and on the 3DS to check for version differences.
(Since didn't one of Link's neutral specials have different properties between versions?)

I've been meaning to do 3DS version stage research for the stages for the stages that @ ParanoidDrone didn't cover before s/he moved onto Wii U (assuming I didn't miss any 3DS topics).
So I wouldn't mind trying to test some move properties while I wait around on all the scrolling and transforming stages.
I plan to test most of the stages in training and some in both training and normal smash, so I can test staleness and freshness of some customs as well if I have to.

 

[Piford]

Is there any plan in place, though, if Mewtwo is delayed until April or worse? I guess there's no choice then but to blindly bet like this:

2111
1211
1121
1112
3111
1311
1131
1113
2222
3333

This, of course, is generously assuming that three of its 1-moves will at least be viable, with only a single custom to patch its gameplan - otherwise 2222 and 3333 are the dubious emergency fallbacks.

I agree that this should be put as a tentative Mewtwo set. Mr. Wizard said that Mewtwo is going to be legal as long as he comes out a reasonable time before the tournament and if he's available for general download. I think he'd be willing to allow us to make an change specifically in Mewtwo's case since he's been so corporative about the Smash 4 ruleset, but putting this list is definitely the best bet.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

@ HeroMystic I edited the OP to use that thread for Mario. Sorry, I just overlooked that the Marios had shifted to a new thread when I made that list.

 

[TheASDF]

This also might not be the right place to ask this, but are there any characters that haven't had much testing done for their custom moves, both in general and on the 3DS to check for version differences.
(Since didn't one of Link's neutral specials have different properties between versions?)

I've been meaning to do 3DS version stage research for the stages for the stages that @ ParanoidDrone didn't cover before s/he moved onto Wii U (assuming I didn't miss any 3DS topics).
So I wouldn't mind trying to test some move properties while I wait around on all the scrolling and transforming stages.
I plan to test most of the stages in training and some in both training and normal smash, so I can test staleness and freshness of some customs as well if I have to.

Nothing extensive, but what differences there were between versions were, as far as I know, patched in 1.0.5.

 

[thehard]

You're the man, @ Amazing Ampharos .

 

[TheHypnotoad]

In regards to Mewtwo, I just want to mention that the deadline on Club Nintendo to be eligible for the free Mewtwo download is March 31st, so the chances of him being released before March 27th are effectively 0%.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

@ Amazing Ampharos the Shulk link leads to our old closed thread, despite appearing to be the new one?

 

[Noa.]

This project is incredibly important.

And the Ness boards have devised 7 sets. They're the only sets that matter really. The last three can be used for literally anything.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

@ Amazing Ampharos the Shulk link leads to our old closed thread, despite appearing to be the new one?

That is the strangest quirk of smashboards I've seen in a good while. I've fixed it. Hopefully this will be the last issue with the link repository.

 

[Seiniyta]

In regards to Mewtwo, I just want to mention that the deadline on Club Nintendo to be eligible for the free Mewtwo download is March 31st, so the chances of him being released before March 27th are effectively 0%.

Not neccecarily. It sometimes happens that you're still elligible for it after launch. I wouldn't read too much into that end date. Sometimes companies put the expiry date after the release so people who had forgotten about it can still redeem it after it comes in the spotlight again.

 

[T0MMY]

I am quickly becoming a Custom Moves dissenter.

Evo should not be testing grounds for major rules changes.

As a longtime competitor nationwide I've known competitive standards have a default setting of the game that will evolve over time when (and if) it takes precedence. Brawl took a heavy hit when Evo pushed Items ON for their first tourney and it hurt the reputation of that game so much and just paved the way for a return to Melee (which is still enjoying Evo spotlight).

Best I can do is exactly what the custom movement is doing: crossing my fingers and hoping this whole thing doesn't blow up in our faces (which is strangely the exact feeling AA's post gives off with his worrying over issues).

 

[digiholic]

It's not being a testing ground, things like Xanadu and Shockwave are. EVO will be the culmination of the testing done in these smaller tournaments.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

@ Amazing Ampharos Mega Man's thread is locked, you need to use this one:

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-mega-man-revamp-poll.388486/

 

[RWB]

I am quickly becoming a Custom Moves dissenter.

Evo should not be testing grounds for major rules changes.

As a longtime competitor nationwide I've known competitive standards have a default setting of the game that will evolve over time when (and if) it takes precedence. Brawl took a heavy hit when Evo pushed Items ON for their first tourney and it hurt the reputation of that game so much and just paved the way for a return to Melee (which is still enjoying Evo spotlight).

Best I can do is exactly what the custom movement is doing: crossing my fingers and hoping this whole thing doesn't blow up in our faces (which is strangely the exact feeling AA's post gives off with his worrying over issues).

I can understand this.

I hoped for Evo to have Customs, but less so for the "Testing it out", than for the standard it sets. We know this community can be extremely hard to change once you settle on something. If Evo doesn't use customs, we will have a TON of TOs that will settle for non-customs using Evo as their backing for that ruling. Once Apex 2016 rolls around, would we see customs there if Evo said no? Possibly not.

I'm worried about TOs settling on non-customs if the biggest tournaments do so throughout too much of the early play.

But if we can trust TOs to run customs, and not just follow the big tournaments? Then yes, we should not have customs at Evo. You are VERY right that it is not a good testing ground.


In short, I agree with you overall, but I'm afraid of TOs using Evo as a precedent to leave out customs, and thus making it even harder to make them a real thing.

I do have a lot more trust in TOs not taking Evo as a precedent after seeing how they didn't after Apex, though!

 

[Raijinken]

I can understand this.

I hoped for Evo to have Customs, but less so for the "Testing it out", than for the standard it sets. We know this community can be extremely hard to change once you settle on something. If Evo doesn't use customs, we will have a TON of TOs that will settle for non-customs using Evo as their backing for that ruling. Once Apex 2016 rolls around, would we see customs there if Evo said no? Possibly not.

I'm worried about TOs settling on non-customs if the biggest tournaments do so throughout too much of the early play.

But if we can trust TOs to run customs, and not just follow the big tournaments? Then yes, we should not have customs at Evo. You are VERY right that it is not a good testing ground.


In short, I agree with you overall, but I'm afraid of TOs using Evo as a precedent to leave out customs, and thus making it even harder to make them a real thing.

I do have a lot more trust in TOs not taking Evo as a precedent after seeing how they didn't after Apex, though!

This sums up my view as well. There is too much follow-the-leader concern with the big tournaments to not want them to test things early.

EVO made a mistake trying items in Brawl, after all, items are a mess regardless of the game. Customs aren't even comparable, they're a legitimate opportunity to improve diversity and balance without past game precedent to suggest it won't work. Contrast items, which have been rather generally unreasonable and frowned upon since Smash64.

 

[T0MMY]

I can understand this.

I hoped for Evo to have Customs, but less so for the "Testing it out", than for the standard it sets. We know this community can be extremely hard to change once you settle on something.

It really isn't that difficult to get things changed - we moved from Time to Stocks and Items On to Items Off.
There's plenty of proof that the rules change fairly easily (maybe too much at times), and I'd like to see some evidence from the side that says it's difficult to get things changed!
You know how this works? By making changes in their proper formalities; if something is good for competition it will evolve naturally.

This is the exact opposite move the pro custom movement is taking, trying to push a rule change in a now-or-never fashion instead of letting it be adopted naturally. Whether Customs are good for competition or not is now not the issue at hand but the question of why people think they are "above the law" of competitive standards.
They not only have the anti-custom people against them but they are bringing the competitive-loving people like myself against the movement as well. I am jumping ship and hoping for the best since I see it as a crap shoot now that could be really bad for the competitive image.

I'll leave it to the community to do what is right and let customs come into things naturally or be a fun side-event the way Teams is. Whatever happens, I just don't want drastic changes potentially impeding the scene.

 

[Raijinken]

It really isn't that difficult to get things changed - we moved from Time to Stocks and Items On to Items Off.
There's plenty of proof that the rules change fairly easily (maybe too much at times), and I'd like to see some evidence from the side that says it's difficult to get things changed!
You know how this works? By making changes in their proper formalities; if something is good for competition it will evolve naturally.

This is the exact opposite move the pro custom movement is taking, trying to push a rule change in a now-or-never fashion instead of letting it be adopted naturally. Whether Customs are good for competition or not is now not the issue at hand but the question of why people think they are "above the law" of competitive standards.
They not only have the anti-custom people against them but they are bringing the competitive-loving people like myself against the movement as well. I am jumping ship and hoping for the best since I see it as a crap shoot now that could be really bad for the competitive image.

I'll leave it to the community to do what is right and let customs come into things naturally or be a fun side-event the way Teams is. Whatever happens, I just don't want drastic changes potentially impeding the scene.

Numerous other subjects (stage selection revision and stagelists in general spring to mind prominently) suggest that there's a heavy leaning towards previous rulesets. Rules do change, but it's almost invariably towards more conservative rules. Stages are cut, not added, to most lists (bar PM where they can actually make more fair stages, since there's no sign of anyone adopting custom stages in Smash4 yet). And again, there's the follow-the-leader mentality. A lot of tournaments in November allowed customs. As soon as the Apex rules came out saying no customs, virtually all of them cut customs "to practice for Apex". So while a natural rule change pace is indeed nice, it's pretty fair to expect people to shun, perhaps indefinitely, any sort of progressive rulechange.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'd like to remind everyone that EVO happens in July. The ruleset is finalized in March.

That gives us roughly four months to feel out customs, which is more than what Smash Wii U got for Apex.

 

[ChemicalExperiment]

This is great news! If this works out, customs are sure to be the meta. On another note, I posted an announcement for this on the smash bros reddit. If you guys can upvote it to get it on top, that would help a lot. Also, if you could answer some questions people have, that would help a bunch too. I don't have as much knowledge of the project as others, so I'm not the best to be answering questions. I have the link here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2wzd3y/smashboards_needs_help_getting_custom_moves_ready/

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'd like to remind everyone that EVO happens in July. The ruleset is finalized in March.

That gives us roughly four months to feel out customs, which is more than what Smash Wii U got for Apex.

And is also more than entire games are getting. Some of the games set to be played at EVO haven't even released yet.

 

[Dexmaster]

Does anyone know where I can see these moves in action? Like, tournaments using custom moves so I can see them in a competitive setting?

 

[T0MMY]

And is also more than entire games are getting. Some of the games set to be played at EVO haven't even released yet.

To be honest most of those games are not much different from their previous games and do not have something as big as Custom Fighters settings being experimented with. It's not really comparable to Smash's situation - if it were the same and Smash Wii U came out the day before Evo everyone would be fine with that, but throwing in Custom Moves which disrupts the traditional way Smash is played and you've got something much bigger to contend with.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Does anyone know where I can see these moves in action? Like, tournaments using custom moves so I can see them in a competitive setting?

Nairo's playlist featuring all custom moves. < 1 minute per character except Pac-Man because lol Bonus Fruit varieties.
Lucario vs. Palutena
Lucario/Samus vs. Palutena (same players, different set)
Shofu experimenting
Captain Falcon vs. Wii Fit Trainer custom exhibition match
Some .gifs I saved of custom move combos

 

[TheHypnotoad]

By the way, I have a question which came to mind. Who exactly is going to be the one setting up the movesets? We know that we need a 3DS with all the custom moves unlocked and all the sets made on it to transfer the sets over to every Wii U. But who is going to be the one to do it? Is Amazing Ampharos going to show up himself and do it with his own 3DS? Or have we decided upon some other "representative" to do it? EVO is nice enough to let us use customs, but they're not going to set it up themselves.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

By the way, I have a question which came to mind. Who exactly is going to be the one setting up the movesets? We know that we need a 3DS with all the custom moves unlocked and all the sets made on it to transfer the sets over to every Wii U. But who is going to be the one to do it? Is Amazing Ampharos going to show up himself and do it with his own 3DS? Or have we decided upon some other "representative" to do it? EVO is nice enough to let us use customs, but they're not going to set it up themselves.

AFAIK EVO staff will do it? Or something like that, I think they have people they can call on to configure the setups.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

To be honest most of those games are not much different from their previous games and do not have something as big as Custom Fighters settings being experimented with. It's not really comparable to Smash's situation - if it were the same and Smash Wii U came out the day before Evo everyone would be fine with that, but throwing in Custom Moves which disrupts the traditional way Smash is played and you've got something much bigger to contend with.

How is it disrupting the traditional way smash is played? Traditionally you can pick any character you want with any moveset the game offers. Smash 4 is blatantly balanced around this; it seems very clear at this point this game's balance is radically superior in a customs on environment which implies heavily that it's how the game was intended to be played.. Artificially banning all but default movesets seems to be the break from tradition to me. It is unfortunate that smash 4's menu design limits us to only having access to 11/81 movesets per character, but it's obviously a lot more of the game to have 11/81 than 1/81 especially since 11/81 will contain all of the good stuff while 1/81 contains a pretty random smattering of good stuff.

Also, honestly, 80% of the community wants this. I would be begrudingly okay with no customs if I were just that one weird guy who wants this to happen and everyone else agreed it was better without customs, but when such an overwhelming majority of the community want to play a game in one way, I think their voices have to be heard especially when the remaining 20% is split between people who are actually opposed and those who are merely indifferent. Any competition at the end of the day is defined by its players, and if this is the game the players want to play, I think it's only proper and just that this be the game. I made this topic to try to assure the best possible outcome for that game.

By the way, I have a question which came to mind. Who exactly is going to be the one setting up the movesets? We know that we need a 3DS with all the custom moves unlocked and all the sets made on it to transfer the sets over to every Wii U. But who is going to be the one to do it? Is Amazing Ampharos going to show up himself and do it with his own 3DS? Or have we decided upon some other "representative" to do it? EVO is nice enough to let us use customs, but they're not going to set it up themselves.

EVO contracts with some third party group to set this up; Mr. Wizard talked about how this works at some point but I don't remember where. They send the tournament consoles to this group with specifications, and that group makes whatever they're told happen. If they asked me for my help on this I would of course provide it, but it doesn't seem likely that will occur. This is also why March 27 is such a hard deadline; that's when they send everything off to be set up.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

To be honest most of those games are not much different from their previous games and do not have something as big as Custom Fighters settings being experimented with. It's not really comparable to Smash's situation - if it were the same and Smash Wii U came out the day before Evo everyone would be fine with that, but throwing in Custom Moves which disrupts the traditional way Smash is played and you've got something much bigger to contend with.

You are broadcasting your ignorance of games that you clearly don't play, in more ways than one.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I just want to see somebody discover this game ruining insanity already. Show me the custom attack that makes Diddy Uair look tame. Show me that customs moves suddenly turn every match into a camp-fest. I'll jump on the "customs shouldn't be at Evo" train right away if people could actually show me something game ruining instead of theorycrafting. Meanwhile I've watched and taken part of multiple custom tournaments and the most questionable thing I've seen there is Brawler's One-inch Punch, which the main face of the Brawler metagame has said is still less useful than the sheer power on Helicopter Kick.

Show me that busted things like the Order Tackle glitch are the norm with customs, rather than the exception.

 

[T0MMY]

You are broadcasting your ignorance of games that you clearly don't play, in more ways than one.

You're right, I am not aware of having to unlock custom moves for Raiden. Or is this not an issue in MKX?

 

[deepseadiva]

I just want to see somebody discover this game ruining insanity already. Show me the custom attack that makes Diddy Uair look tame. Show me that customs moves suddenly turn every match into a camp-fest. I'll jump on the "customs shouldn't be at Evo" train right away if people could actually show me something game ruining instead of theorycrafting. Meanwhile I've watched and taken part of multiple custom tournaments and the most questionable thing I've seen there is Brawler's One-inch Punch, which the main face of the Brawler metagame has said is still less useful than the sheer power on Helicopter Kick.

Show me that busted things like the Order Tackle glitch are the norm with customs, rather than the exception.

Agreed!

WHERE IS THE PROOF NAYSAYERS???????

Are we just going to keep linking to that Donkey Kopter False vs Nairo match from Fall 2014 on the 3DS? Because there needs to be more.

 

[thehard]

Something AA touched upon that I want to stress:

SC: On the note of customizable things, what is your stance on Mii legality at the event? If they are legal, will they have any sort of size restrictions placed on them or be required to use guest Miis?

JC: I would have to do more research on Mii's. I dont know enough about that to make a informed decision. We don't allow anything being loaded to the console during tournament play, so if it can be accomplished beforehand, then it will probably be allowed.

SC: Guest Miis all have the same default size to my knowledge and are all preloaded onto the machine allowing them to be used to make a Mii with custom moves in maybe 20 seconds or less for those that use them. Is that something you think would work?

JC: I dont have an answer at this time, we will look into it. But anything adding more time to a big tournament is frowned upon.

SC: I checked and learned that Miis ARE covered in the custom moves project so that would eliminate the problems I even asked about earlier as you would have Miis preloaded and selectable just like every other character. With that being the case are Miis probably safe to stay or do you still want further research?

JC: That would all take more research. I have to understand why someone would want to use a Mii over a normal character and what the advantages/disadvantages of using a Mii are. Once more research is done, we will have an answer.

There will have to be a little convincing done to get Miis legal in the first place.

Anyone who mains a Mii Fighter or just likes them should write to Mr. Wizard explaining why they deserve legality. I am pretty sure his biggest concern is time constraints as he's shown to be very liberal regarding balance (not that Miis are unbalanced in any way). So go appeal to him! It would help if our resident Mii players could agree upon heights and weights and such and, above all, make sure Mr. Wizard is clear on why Miis are a good thing.