Confirmed: SSB4 gameplay faster than Brawl's, but slower than Melee's

[Vann Accessible]

The Next Smash Bros. Will Balance Casual And Hardcore, Creators Say

If Super Smash Bros. Melee was for hardcore players, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl was for casual players, the next Smash Bros. game will fall somewhere in between, creator Masahiro Sakurai says.
This time around, Sakurai is going for the best of both worlds.
This morning, Sakurai and I had a long chat about all sorts of Smash-related topics, like third-party characters and tripping. I'll have a longer story up in the coming days about everything we spoke about, but for now I wanted to share a few words on the vision of the next game in Nintendo's massively popular mascot fighting series.
I had asked Sakurai what sort of weaknesses he thought were in the last game, Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I asked what he wanted to fix for this new one.
"I would consider the changes that we're making this time around not as fixes, but that we're changing the direction," he said through a translator. "And so the vision for the overall balance of the game in Smash Bros Melee, it was sort of more focused towards more hardcore players. Then when it came around to making Brawl, this was a game that was targeting a Wii audience where there were a lot of beginner players, so it sort of leaned a little bit more in that direction.
"So now, for this time around, we're sort of aiming for something that is in between those as far as the speed of the game. Because I don't really think this time we're in a situation where we're trying to accommodate that many new players."
Super Smash Bros. Goldilocks. Look out for more from my conversation with Sakurai in the next few days.



http://kotaku.com/the-next-smash-bros-will-balance-casual-and-hardcore-513211771

Sounds like a good balance, I can live with.

 

[Zeallyx]

Awesome! =D

 

[metaXzero]

I just hope Sakurai knows what he is doing in catering to both crowds. Or that Namco or whatever can talk him through some things.

 

[fogbadge]

with any luck everybody will be happy

 

[The Real Gamer]

with any luck everybody will be happy

Please... Not even Jesus could bring the Brawl/Melee community together.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Cool, just what I wanted, and just what I predicted.

 

[Black Mantis]

Melee players started attacking brawl players.

 

[greenluigiman2]

This is going to be the best Smash game EVER.

 

[Chiroz]

"So now, for this time around, we're sort of aiming for something that is in between those as far as the speed of the game. Because I don't really think this time we're in a situation where we're trying to accommodate that many new players."

Best thing ever, just what was wanted by the vast majority of the community.

 

[jerflip]

Awesome.

TBH that's how I saw P:M. It's like a more forgiving version of Melee

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Meh, I don't like the idea of a "balance" between "hardcore" and "casual", all super vague and arbitrary terms.

When Melee and 64 came out they were by far the most "casual" and beginner-friendly as fighting games got, but with analog controls and the massive amount of subtle mechanics left in, Sakurai also created a game that could have a high depth and technical ceiling if players learned to control all of the variables. I don't like the idea of trimming down one end of the other, so we'll wait and see for what he does with Smash 4.

 

[Chiroz]

Well, keep in mind Melee was intended to make Smash 64 more technical all in all and through its design process it was always meant to be deeper than 64, adding a lot of mechanics but it was still catered around "casual play"

Brawl was specifically designed for Casuals, it was meant to make the game simpler and much less deep, technical abilities were removed purposely and the game was made slower on purpose, even tripping was added to help the casual by having more advanced players mess up and giving the casuals more of a chance (So was the pity smash ball).

Now we're going into the 2nd Smash ever to be designed having the "let's make the game deeper and more technical mentality" while still trying to cater to casuals.

I think it is the best direction to go, specially since they now have a ceiling they know they shouldn't hit (Melee) and a floor they know they shouldn't approach either (Brawl)

 

[TL?]

Meh, I don't like the idea of a "balance" between "hardcore" and "casual", all super vague and arbitrary terms.

When Melee and 64 came out they were by far the most "casual" and beginner-friendly as fighting games got, but with analog controls and the massive amount of subtle mechanics left in, Sakurai also created a game that could have a high depth and technical ceiling if players learned to control all of the variables. I don't like the idea of trimming down one end of the other, so we'll wait and see for what he does with Smash 4.

At the very least, he isn't trying to purposely spite us with mechanics like random tripping. Even if what he is saying is extremely vague, his intentions are clearly better this time around.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Faster than Brawl but slower than Melee? It'll probably still have somewhat of a Brawlish feel too, so...

Huh, so Smash 4 is Brawl+. ¦D

 

[killazys]

This is great news! So hype!

 

[GaretHax]

Faster than Brawl but slower than Melee? It'll probably still have somewhat of a Brawlish feel too, so...

Huh, so Smash 4 is Brawl+. ¦D

Honestly it kinda looks like it from the gameplay, I'm hoping its between Brawl+ and Project M personally. (Rather than between brawl and pm or brawl+ and brawl.

 

[EnthusedPanda]

Tripping also confirmed to be out. Hurrah?

 

[Chiroz]

Yes, this game is shaping out to be awesome

 

[Crossjeremiah]

i think sakurai is realizing how important competitive play is to hardcore gamers. i'm glad he's adapting . I'm happy they diddn't use items during the megaman showcase. i want this game succeed well in esports.

 

[Chiroz]

i think sakurai is realizing how important competitive play is to hardcore gamers. i'm glad he's adapting . I'm happy they diddn't use items during the megaman showcase. i want this game succeed well in esports.

If it's any consolation the Demo versions they showcased (which weren't allowed to be played but were shown) were just Battlefield, no items, 2 minute stock matches, you couldn't even change the rules and Sakurai only played it 1v1, don't know what this means but I feel they are putting more focus in balancing around this type of play.

 

[Kewkky]

Meh, I don't like the idea of a "balance" between "hardcore" and "casual", all super vague and arbitrary terms.

They're not vague at all. A casual player plays games for fun. A hardcore player plays games to be the best.

 

[The World Warrior]

Sounds good. I was hoping for this iteration of Smash to reach a middle ground. Hopefully everything works out.

 

[UltimateLoser]

Hopefully they'll make it less defensive and campy too.

 

[Kewkky]

Seeing as how Villager seems to be an anti-camp character, I wouldn't doubt the game being less campy as a whole.

 

[Nessimator]

Looking good so far. As for me my two biggest hopes are THE REMOVAL OF TRIPPING and a very well balanced meta game. I also sorta hope Ness is a playable character too. He probably will be but still I hope. That's for another topic though.

 

[sunshinesan]

Eh, I'm all for a casual game or a hardcore one. But I think you can't just mash them together and find a middle ground and think all problems are solved. Doing so kinda defeats the purpose why they are opposites of a spectrum in the first place, and what you get is something that will feel very lukewarm in any aspect. It's like mixing a Disney film with Kill Bill or something, and having only some violence and some fluffiness. You end up with something jarring to both demographics you were trying to bring together.

 

[LancerStaff]

Eh, I'm all for a casual game or a hardcore one. But I think you can't just mash them together and find a middle ground and think all problems are solved. Doing so kinda defeats the purpose why they are opposites of a spectrum in the first place, and what you get is something that will feel very lukewarm in any aspect. It's like mixing a Disney film with Kill Bill or something, and having only some violence and some fluffiness. You end up with something jarring to both demographics you were trying to bring together.

That's a bit different. Here, I'd guess the idea is that they're trying to eliminate tech barriers and make competitive play much more visible and easier for casuals to get into, while makeing the game much more fun competitively by balancing the game.

 

[Riposte__]

Speed was never a problem of smash games (untill Brawl) what's important is fluid movements (like having faster falling models then brawl) and most important COMBOS! Combos is what what smash 64 and melee the beloved games they are today.

 

[sunshinesan]

That's a bit different. Here, I'd guess the idea is that they're trying to eliminate tech barriers and make competitive play much more visible and easier for casuals to get into, while makeing the game much more fun competitively by balancing the game.

I agree about the tech barriers but balancing the game doesn't really go into this discussion. It's more like... better game design. I felt the first 3 didn't even really try in terms of balance. With the mentality that 4 will be SOMETHING of a competitive game, I guess they felt it was important.

 

[Vann Accessible]

Hmmm. Why is this topic bumped up to the front page?

It is interesting though. Remember how happy we all were when we found this out? A workable balance between Brawl's meandering floatiness and Melee's hyper-fast insanity? Well, screw gameplay. A full year later, all we can do complain about is the character roster.

Perspective. It's a good thing.

 

[Riposte__]

Last year when they announced ssb4 I said "good. I hope it's smash 64 part 2." It's still my favorite in that the tech skill, the combos, and the levels are the craziest of the series.

 

[Pazzo.]

Last year when they announced ssb4 I said "good. I hope it's smash 64 part 2." It's still my favorite in that the tech skill, the combos, and the levels are the craziest of the series.

Meh, we don't really need a rehash of SSB. Too much borrowing from other games without new ideas gives us Smash Bros: CoD edition.

 

[Riposte__]

You do realize that every game is a re-has of Smash with a new more gimmicks and some slightly altered physics and graphics, right?

 

[Khao]

Eh, I'm all for a casual game or a hardcore one. But I think you can't just mash them together and find a middle ground and think all problems are solved. Doing so kinda defeats the purpose why they are opposites of a spectrum in the first place, and what you get is something that will feel very lukewarm in any aspect. It's like mixing a Disney film with Kill Bill or something, and having only some violence and some fluffiness. You end up with something jarring to both demographics you were trying to bring together.

I gotta disagree with that.

Even though Melee may have been more competitive-friendly, it's still a ****ing fantastic game for casual players, and as far as I care, Brawl is only better in that regard because of the massive amounts of content and extra options. There's nothing about Melee's base gameplay that's inherently worse for casual play.

Heck, even games like Street Fighter can easily be casually played just for fun with no real desire for true competition. I know I do, I love doing a couple matches of Street Fighter 4, or Guilty Gear every now and then, and I don't really bother "studying" them beyond knowing how to fully control my character.

 

[sunshinesan]

I gotta disagree with that.
Even though Melee may have been more competitive-friendly, it's still a ****ing fantastic game for casual players, and as far as I care, Brawl is only better in that regard because of the massive amounts of content and extra options. There's nothing about Melee's base gameplay that's inherently worse for casual play.

Melee is one of the few exceptions. Most hardcore games are extremely intimidating and often deter casual players to the point that it is not even on their radar. Your point is why I think Sakurai made a grave mistake by alienating the hardcore fandom of Smash by making the game casual even though casuals didn't mind Melee's design. Pokemon is another example. As long as you don't play online... you can have a very fun experience with your casual in-game team through out the 1st player game. Just don't go online!

 

[LancerStaff]

Just don't go online!

That's the problem. Why should casual players essentially not be able to use the online vs? Everything should be well explained and everybody should be on even ground. And if everything is explained, artificial barriers like L-canceling and IVs will be redundant.

 

[Kewkky]

That's the problem. Why should casual players essentially not be able to use the online vs? Everything should be well explained and everybody should be on even ground. And if everything is explained, artificial barriers like L-canceling and IVs will be redundant.

L-Canceling is very different from IV training. One is available to all players from the get-go, while the other one requires weeks (or months even) to properly set up. And then you're stuck with that team until you repeat the same thing again for a new pokemon.

 

[sunshinesan]

Everything should be well explained and everybody should be on even ground.

Trust me. Even if everything is explained, a casual will not put forth the effort to try and understand it (It's relatively complicated, at least compared to just plowing through the game with your Charizard), let alone then putting in the effort in actually doing the breeding.

A casual should not expect to compete with someone who has put the effort in breeding and EV train and studying the meta anyway. But I agree that casuals should be able to go online and have a good time. But that's an issue of matchmaking, not the game's design. I can say that go is a terrible game because a beginner can't compete with a 9dan, but there are very sophisticated rank system and matchmaking mechanisms on popular servers (i.e. KGS) that allow all levels to have fun. Online is interesting because before it, you just played in your circle and there was no complaining about tech barriers, it was just complaining about Kirby's down B or Pit's side B.

 

[Ryan.]

I think this is a good move and will please many players. I've been a casual player for years. I don't like using items and stages with insane hazards but I still won't consider myself competitive or a "hard core" player. I enjoyed Melee, Brawl, and I recently got into Project M. I feel like the game speed for Smash 4 will be perfect, but I'm fine with whatever.

 

[Riposte__]

L-Canceling is very different from IV training. One is available to all players from the get-go, while the other one requires weeks (or months even) to properly set up. And then you're stuck with that team until you repeat the same thing again for a new pokemon.

Can we stop pretending that L-Canceling is the same level of keeping a 300 APM in Star Craft or having a 90% railgun accuracy in Quake. It's pressing one button after an action. My friends and I figured this out L-Canceling weeks after SSB64 came out once we started playing. It's not difficult to do. If you ever did a QTE or was able to pull off a timed attack in RPG like Super Paper Mario, then you can L-Cancel.