Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Hydreigonfan01]

Cardd's Basement results

1. Kola
2. Teaser
3. Fatality
4. Anathema
5. DDee
5. Wrath
7. Mugen
7. Jahzz0
9. Sonido
9. Vendetta
9. moxi
9. Peabnut
13. Player-1
13. omega
13. Dany
13. Jax
17. merf
17. Fallen
17. Kailen
17. Zomba
17. Vivid_NGL
17. Sean
17. MopN
17. Kip!

 

[Hippieslayer]

Not good enough to ever consider giving up Chakram, his best move by a country mile. Ask any of the few MSF mains out there and they will tell you this character rides or dies on chakram. There’s a very clear reason every msf used chakram: it’s just super versatile. It spaces, it anti airs, it can edgeguard, it does so much for msf.

And how's that working out for them? Chakram is overrated. Swordfighter already has a laggy projectile that can catch jumps in neutral-b.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

And how's that working out for them? Chakram is overrated. Swordfighter already has a laggy projectile that can catch jumps in neutral-b.

Let me use smaller words to help you with this.

Chakram does everything for MSF. It does more than catch jumps. It edgeguards. It pressures shield. It does a ton in neutral. MSF not being good is not chakrams fault: it’s just the character is not good. Without chakram he would be a unanimous bottom 5 character. There is a reason every MSF main of note to achieve any competitive success like Tsu when he used to use him uses Chakram. Comparing it to gale strike, a fundamentally less versatile and useful tool,

MkLeo is playing Corrin and thinks the character is good.

Good offline session with @Maister_SSB Forgot how playing offline felt, started a bit rusty with byleth but ended up adjusting quite well, corrin also seems way better than i thought. People might not know but i started using corrin and i legit think she is really good.

— LG | MkLeo (@Mkleosb) February 12, 2022

Glad Leo is speaking the truth. Corrin underrated and her big issue is she does not have a top player getting crazy results with her yet. Ly is causing some upsets with her but its not enough to catch fire really. Hope this inspires people to consider her a more viable character.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Corrin is among the many characters who fall under the "swordie with few weaknesses" category. It makes sense that she isn't seen as much, as most swordies do have things over her, but she's a strong character in her own right. I'd say she's around Byleth's level of viable: top of mid tier at worst, but probably somewhere in high tier.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Let me use smaller words to help you with this.

Chakram does everything for MSF. It does more than catch jumps. It edgeguards. It pressures shield. It does a ton in neutral. MSF not being good is not chakrams fault: it’s just the character is not good. Without chakram he would be a unanimous bottom 5 character. There is a reason every MSF main of note to achieve any competitive success like Tsu when he used to use him uses Chakram. Comparing it to gale strike, a fundamentally less versatile and useful tool,

Glad Leo is speaking the truth. Corrin underrated and her big issue is she does not have a top player getting crazy results with her yet. Ly is causing some upsets with her but its not enough to catch fire really. Hope this inspires people to consider her a more viable character.

Just no, you're really overstating its importance. MSF has a lot of good moves and they would not jump down significantly in viability without chakram. Gale Strike less useful? No. The threat of gale strike changes stuff a lot more than chakram does.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Just no, you're really overstating its importance. MSF has a lot of good moves and they would not jump down significantly in viability without chakram. Gale Strike less useful? No. The threat of gale strike changes stuff a lot more than chakram does.

If you think Gale Strike confirm fear mongering from 2018 makes gale strike better than MSF’s best move you truly are a lost cause. There is a reason everyone except you thinks MSF’s best move by a lot is chakram. It literally everyone except you, especially his mains, think it is better, odds are you are dead wrong. Eat another ratio.

 

[Garo]

Let me use smaller words to help you with this.

you truly are a lost cause.

Eat another ratio.

What's with the attitude? You can defend your views without being so disparaging.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Corrin is among the many characters who fall under the "swordie with few weaknesses" category. It makes sense that she isn't seen as much, as most swordies do have things over her, but she's a strong character in her own right. I'd say she's around Byleth's level of viable: top of mid tier at worst, but probably somewhere in high tier.

I‘m pretty sure that most people think she is bad because she is slow. But having VERY scary ledge pressure with many kill confirms and side b mix-ups is incredibly privileged. Up-B can make it legitimately difficult to edgeguard her, and side-b jump is practically a get out of jail free card. Her disjoints are some of the best in the game, making most of her moves when spaced extremely difficult to punish. Severely underrated character.

Just no, you're really overstating its importance. MSF has a lot of good moves and they would not jump down significantly in viability without chakram. Gale Strike less useful? No. The threat of gale strike changes stuff a lot more than chakram does.

No, just… no. Gale strike just means that your opponent isn’t gonna hang on ledge for an hour and a half. Chakram actually does things in neutral, advantage, and disadvantage, whereas Gale strike is a pure advantage tool, which doesn’t even work too well from how easy it is to react to. You legit have to be a potato to get hit by this unless you have literally NO resources to escape. Contrast with chakram which is quite difficult to react to and can be angled for mix-ups. Plus it does 8%, which is great for such a low commitment move. Then its possible to do weak chakram for ledgetrapping and confirms. You can also use strong chakram to cover recoveries like the Links boomerangs, a great boon for a character with a weak recovery. Chakram just does a lot for little commitment and gale strike does very little with a large commitment.

 

[Hippieslayer]

There isn't any MSF who has garnered serious results in recent times. The characters meta is really not that developed. Youre talking as if though having a different opinion about the character makes you mentally challenged, that's not really the case. Stuff isn't written in stone.

I think having burst options is a lot more useful for MSF than another projectile in chakram. MSF struggles under pressure because they are slow, they don't really have swordie range, their OOS game is weak and their close up buttons are bad. Yeah you can use hero's spin to better be able to handle crossups but then you get **** for recovery. They are pretty susceptible when it comes to rushdown. And neither chakram nor tornado can keep people out.

If you do use the ike side-b and falcon kick down-b you become harder to pin down, able to weave in from a distance and open people up and gain stage control. If you hit someone from far away with chakram that's a bit of damage but it's nothing game changing. Doesn't really command respect, doesn't really help fill the gaps in the characters gameplan.

I dunno, looking at Anonymous Moniker for instance, I just feel like that projectile spamming style is a dead end, it works alright on people who aren't used to dealing with it but there's a ton of characters who are just plain better at that playstyle. And most really good players are gonna be able to adapt to it quickly.

And yeah maybe I'm totally wrong, but like I'm just discussing stuff? I like reading other people's takes, I do that a lot more than I post my own because I'm no pro player. But given how little activity there can be in this thread I figure me occasionally voicing some opinions can help keep it active, so like come on man.. there is no need to be nasty lol.

 

[Sucumbio]

So... Yeah. The chakram is a good thing.

Gale STAB is spammable and annoying to deal with if you're unfamiliar with the matchup. But not as versatile and like quick draw from Ike leaves you open on block.

Gale STRIKE is not a bad tool for setting up combos but again isn't great against players who know the matchup and can exploit you if you spam it (unlike chakram which is pretty much a free hitbox to throw out). The tornado itself has interesting properties like "reeling," "tumble," and Set Knockback though this can hinder exploits against lighter opponents and is fairly potent against heavies...

On another note, please avoid using hurtful or derogatory language. We're here to learn and have fun not bash each other for their questions or opinions. Thanks.

 

[Aligo]

To be honest I really don't think it matters all that much Mii swordfighter mainly has issues with horrible movement stats and landing lag, at least from what I have felt playing them in friendlies. I have never actually landed chakhram so could someone tell me why it is considered good?

 

[zeldasmash]

To be honest I really don't think it matters all that much Mii swordfighter mainly has issues with horrible movement stats and landing lag, at least from what I have felt playing them in friendlies. I have never actually landed chakhram so could someone tell me why it is considered good?

It's basically an active projectile hitbox that MSF throws in front of him. It lasts for a while and it can disrupt approaches in neutral and it's very good for edge-guarding as it allows him to do it from the ledge very effectively. You can also call it back it if you don't smash throw it so it really does last a while and because you can alternate it's status, it can keep people guessing and can be used to pressure. It's one of his better tools due to versatility.

However, if you choose Chakram over something like Power Strike you potentially lose on burst mobility and recovery depending on the chosen specials which MSF would very much appreciate having.

 

[toonito]

OrionStats - Smash Ultimate 2022 TTS (Updated December 23rd, 2022)

TTS Page & Character Results - Phase 6 Tournaments,Region ,Date,Category,Point Total,Notes,Overall Score - Category 1-5,International Score - Category 3-5,Regional Score - Category 1-2 <a href="https://www.start.gg/tournament/super-smash-con-2022/event/ultimate-1v1-singles/brackets/1182318/18298...

docs.google.com

Orionstats update: finally hits #1. Becomes the 6th character to reach #1 after

 

[Rizen]

OrionStats - Smash Ultimate 2022 TTS (Updated December 23rd, 2022)

TTS Page & Character Results - Phase 6 Tournaments,Region ,Date,Category,Point Total,Notes,Overall Score - Category 1-5,International Score - Category 3-5,Regional Score - Category 1-2 <a href="https://www.start.gg/tournament/super-smash-con-2022/event/ultimate-1v1-singles/brackets/1182318/18298...

docs.google.com

Orionstats update: finally hits #1. Becomes the 6th character to reach #1 after

A year ago I said Roy and Chrome are better than their orion scores suggest because their player base is split between them. Now Roy has emerged as the clearly superior character and almost everybody just uses him. At this point noone should have any doubts that Roy's a top tier; he's put in so much work. But people still will deny it just like with ROB and Palutena.

 

[NairWizard]

Sword characters want burst options more than they want space-controlling tools because

1) disjoints are favored in interactive mashing scenarios anyway, so you want to close distance
2) you can already zone with your sword
3) the best anti-sword strategy is and has always been whiff punishing; burst options disrupt whiff punishing positioning

It should be fairly obvious that burst tools have value even over a tool as versatile as Chakram, so anyone saying that there's no merit in MSF ever ditching Chakram simply does not understand (or isn't thinking about) sword zoning.

Ditto to anyone who's ever said that Corrin is bad.

 

[F4lcoMain]

Sword characters want burst options more than they want space-controlling tools because

1) disjoints are favored in interactive mashing scenarios anyway, so you want to close distance
2) you can already zone with your sword
3) the best anti-sword strategy is and has always been whiff punishing; burst options disrupt whiff punishing positioning

It should be fairly obvious that burst tools have value even over a tool as versatile as Chakram, so anyone saying that there's no merit in MSF ever ditching Chakram simply does not understand (or isn't thinking about) sword zoning.

Ditto to anyone who's ever said that Corrin is bad.

I do agree that burst options are important. Falco's Side B is an extremely versatile move in his kit to escape pressure, catch landings, recover, etc. However, doesn't Mii Swordfighter's down B, power Thrust, largely achieve the same goal as Gale STAB? I know gale STAB is better for recovery, but the aerial version doesn't seem that good to me as a burst options because it sends you into freefall.

A year ago I said Roy and Chrome are better than their orion scores suggest because their player base is split between them. Now Roy has emerged as the clearly superior character and almost everybody just uses him. At this point noone should have any doubts that Roy's a top tier; he's put in so much work. But people still will deny it just like with ROB and Palutena.

People's logic is weird. I was a Roy main in Smash 4 and remember people saying things about how Roy sucked because reverse tippers are "bad game design" and that Marth would always be better, even in future installments. In this game however, people are now saying the opposite, that Marth's tipper's are "bad design" for being inconsistent & Lucina is better for being more consistent while Roy's reverse tippers are "good design" for whatever BS reason. In the end, other people will have their own thoughts for their own reasons and its better to just ignore them.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I feel that is a character that faces severe opportunity costs on what special moves he chooses, kinda like the 4 moveslot syndrome in competitive Pokémon.

He wants a highly versatile projectile like Chakram to stick with whole "projectile character with a sword shtick", but he loses out in a burst option in Gale Stab in which all sword zoners want.
He could instead choose Power Thrust for the burst option special, but he loses out in losing Mario's Cape or one of the stronger counters in the game.


His neutral, side, or down special slots has a burst option move available for him to use that he definitely wants, but by choosing any of them, he loses out in a highly versatile tool(s) that he also desperately needs.
And it is not like one of those "switch special moves depending on the matchup" kinda thing: he pretty much wants ALL of these tools at any given matchup.
Attach these issues to a character definitely lacking in the current meta, and you have the current dilemma as you see here.

tl:dr Swordfighter wants to have many of the tools his special moves provide, but he is stuck in choosing only 4 of them.

 

[Lancerech]

I don't think Gale Stab is a bad option even because Chakram exists but because it's pretty subpar as a burst option on its own. It does 9.6% unstaled and doesn't launch at the best angle. Gale Stab also has a different problem in that grounded, the burst movement on it is slow. Power Thrust, the similar Down B comes out 3 frames slower. However, that Down B also travels much faster, matching the distance of Side B starting at frame 13, on top of being a kill move at higher percents and sending at a better angle for tech chases at low percents. So the main niche of Gale Stab would be a midair burst option, but the reward is still low, it's frame 12 instead of 9 in the air and you're sent into free fall, it's high risk low reward. There's a reason Ike doesn't use Side B often outside of recovery. A midair burst option is nice, but Gale Stab compares very poorly to other midair burst options. The character really needs as many holes patched up in their zoning as they can get too, as Mii Sword's sword zoning isn't that good. I legitimately think that Mii Sword without projectiles is the worst character in the entire game though. Maybe I'm wrong on this, on top of that no one runs Mii Sword without a single projectile, but it's more to think about how the character's toolkit is overall lacking and relies heavily on these specials to patch up these holes.

 

[Myollnir]

Chakram is mandatory, it's great for edgeguards, ledgetraps, and neutral in most match-ups (bonus points if you're facing someone like who gets shut down easily by it since it goes through hurtboxes). It's one of the best moves in the game to have, extremely flexible move.

Gale Stab / Power Thrust are definitely not mandatory on the other hand, you already have a good burst option with dash attack (it's not safe on shield but definitely harder to punish than PT), and you can punish at long range with Chakram. Power Thrust is only good because it kills at 110-120% (killing can be an issue if you fail to edgeguard or land a D-Throw U-air).

You can use Gale Stab if you really want to use Hero Spin as your UpB (which can net you very early kills but is overall not viable with Chakram since you'll just die offstage), but then you don't have a projectile, so it's bad either way.

Skyward Slash Dash is just too good anyway, great hitbox and damage (26.7% if you land all hits), allows you to safely recover, INSANE edgeguarding tool if you're confident in your ability to not SD when doing it, works as an OoS footstool punish, disadvantage mix-up (although very punishable, it's there and has to be respected).

I think the only viable set for the character is 132X (occasionally 232X), with the best blind pick set being 1322 (the reflector is mandatory in some match-ups and has great utility overall).

 

[Rizen]

The character really needs as many holes patched up in their zoning as they can get too, as Mii Sword's sword zoning isn't that good. I legitimately think that Mii Sword without projectiles is the worst character in the entire game though. Maybe I'm wrong on this, on top of that no one runs Mii Sword without a single projectile, but it's more to think about how the character's toolkit is overall lacking and relies heavily on these specials to patch up these holes.

I can agree with this. MSF is genuinely bad and the only things keeping him out of Ganon's tier are his versatile special moves that he can assign for different situations.

 

[Hippieslayer]

The thing with gale stab is you do it out of a short hop because then it goes further. It's not really that easy a move to punish, because it goes through opponents even if they shield and there's not a lot of endlag. Plus you mix up the amount of charge you use and the height at which you release it which changes the distance it covers. In practice people are going to struggle punishing it a lot of the time unless you're being obvious with it or space it poorly. I think it's a lot harder to punish than Ike's side-B which stops on shields, with jump>gale stab you can fly past the opponent creating enough distance between you and them to prevent them from punishing you if you miss or they shield, even with just a tiny amount of charge.

Power thrust is nice, but it's not the same type of tool at all since using it in the air makes it go diagonally down at a steep angle. It's also a lot laggier. It's more of a kill move.

 

[NairWizard]

Driveby strange, unintuitive thought of the day: Marth isn't worse Lucina, he's worse Roy.

 

[Idon]

Driveby strange, unintuitive thought of the day: Marth isn't worse Lucina, he's worse Roy.

You're gonna have to elaborate on that, man. In my mind, they play like polar opposites.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Well, the easy answer would be that they both have sweetspots/sourspots mechanics and fish for said sweetspots or set-ups into them.

Though I imagine the comparison Mr. Wizard is trying to get at is probably a little bit deeper than that lol.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Tweek and Charles were mentioning about Ignaize's Marth not playing like how Lucina mains play at all, and instead like Roy on the recent Tweek Talks. That is what NairWizard is (probably) referring too.

BTW all players in Summit have been confirmed. Will be ordering them from OrionRank Eclipse ranking.

MkLeo:
Sparg0:
Tweek:
ProtoBanham:
Tea:
Maister:
Glutonny:
Dabuz:
Elegant:
Light:
Chag:
BassMage:
Fatality:
Goblin:
(Unranked) NAKAT:
(Unranked) Lavish:

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Tweek and Charles were mentioning about Ignaize's Marth not playing like how Lucina mains play at all, and instead like Roy on the recent Tweek Talks. That is what NairWizard is (probably) referring too.

BTW all players in Summit have been confirmed. Will be ordering them from OrionRank Eclipse ranking.

MkLeo:
Sparg0:
Tweek:
ProtoBanham:
Tea:
Maister:
Glutonny:
Dabuz:
Elegant:
Light:
Chag:
BassMage:
Fatality:
Goblin:
(Unranked) NAKAT:
(Unranked) Lavish:

Question. Was Kola not participating in the voting?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Question. Was Kola not participating in the voting?

He didn't participate no.

 

[NairWizard]

You're gonna have to elaborate on that, man. In my mind, they play like polar opposites.

Well, let's map out a few layers of Lucina neutral (played in one particular sequence; you can obviously get other sequences):

1. Opponent realizes Lucina has more range and stays grounded to avoid big aerial hitboxes
2. Lucina full hops and uses her high hang time to adjust her position as she perfectly spaces aerials on shield.
3. The opponent either stays out of range of this aerial and uses burst range to whiff punish Lucina's landing, OR dashes in and shields in a position where Lucina has to tomahawk or risk getting OOS'ed.
4. Lucina mixes in short hop empty landings and wavelands away into tilts, to continue safe pressure
5. Opponent starts jumping over Lucina's more grounded positioning, and overshooting for grounded approaches
6. Lucina can dash back, wait for the jump or the overshoot attempt, and dash in SH n-air, or f-tilt

Marth can emulate this playstyle but step 2 is much tougher since there are more deadzones where the opponent can dash in without even shielding and just try to hit Marth. Marth can combo out of his sourspots but it's hard to react to getting one unexpectedly, so an opponent adjacent to Marth can mash on this kind of pressure-based Marth pretty hard.

Roy also has a tough time doing step 2 but for a different reason. Roy's low air acceleration means that he commits hard when he jumps. To get perfectly spaced f-airs and up-airs, Roy has to double jump, which burns an important recovery resource.

In both cases, to play like Lucina, Marth and Roy have to commit harder than their opponent. It doesn't work too well.

But on the other side, both Marth and Roy have some fantastic grounded kill tools that rob you of stocks early, Marth with up-tilt f-smash and DB and Roy with d-tilt techchases. Grounded pressure and short hop options from burst position are so disproportionately rewarding for Marth and Roy that it becomes viable to go for them even if they're less safe. Lucina does step 4 in the neutral flowchart above to get opponents to jump and cycle through her neutral tools; Marth and Roy skip straight to step 4 (and much more aggressively!) to kill you.

They're similar in what they go for and how they go for it, imo. The Tweek Talks comparison makes a lot of sense.

 

[F4lcoMain]

Well, let's map out a few layers of Lucina neutral (played in one particular sequence; you can obviously get other sequences):

1. Opponent realizes Lucina has more range and stays grounded to avoid big aerial hitboxes
2. Lucina full hops and uses her high hang time to adjust her position as she perfectly spaces aerials on shield.
3. The opponent either stays out of range of this aerial and uses burst range to whiff punish Lucina's landing, OR dashes in and shields in a position where Lucina has to tomahawk or risk getting OOS'ed.
4. Lucina mixes in short hop empty landings and wavelands away into tilts, to continue safe pressure
5. Opponent starts jumping over Lucina's more grounded positioning, and overshooting for grounded approaches
6. Lucina can dash back, wait for the jump or the overshoot attempt, and dash in SH n-air, or f-tilt

Marth can emulate this playstyle but step 2 is much tougher since there are more deadzones where the opponent can dash in without even shielding and just try to hit Marth. Marth can combo out of his sourspots but it's hard to react to getting one unexpectedly, so an opponent adjacent to Marth can mash on this kind of pressure-based Marth pretty hard.

Roy also has a tough time doing step 2 but for a different reason. Roy's low air acceleration means that he commits hard when he jumps. To get perfectly spaced f-airs and up-airs, Roy has to double jump, which burns an important recovery resource.

In both cases, to play like Lucina, Marth and Roy have to commit harder than their opponent. It doesn't work too well.

But on the other side, both Marth and Roy have some fantastic grounded kill tools that rob you of stocks early, Marth with up-tilt f-smash and DB and Roy with d-tilt techchases. Grounded pressure and short hop options from burst position are so disproportionately rewarding for Marth and Roy that it becomes viable to go for them even if they're less safe. Lucina does step 4 in the neutral flowchart above to get opponents to jump and cycle through her neutral tools; Marth and Roy skip straight to step 4 (and much more aggressively!) to kill you.

They're similar in what they go for and how they go for it, imo. The Tweek Talks comparison makes a lot of sense.

I'm confused why step 2 is harder for Marth. His untippered aerials aren't that much less safe than Lucina's on shield and aren't negative on hit. Why are there more more deadzones? Is it because his aerials deal less shield pushback?

 

[NairWizard]

Less reward—damage and knock back and even follow-ups (not that Lucina has a ton of direct follow ups to landed aerials). Marth has setups out of sourspot hits, but reacting to a sourspot that you weren’t expecting to get is real hard sometimes.

If I can take a risk that hits an aerial Marth half the time but I get hit by a non-tipper aerial the other half, well, I’ll take that. Vs Lucina I’ll just get out of the way and burst her down.

thats actually simplifying it a bit too much though, because Marth can also go for intentional sour spots and many times he’ll get the tipper hit. Either way it’s still the case that Marth gets more reward for pursuing grounded kill options

 

[F4lcoMain]

Less reward—damage and knock back and even follow-ups (not that Lucina has a ton of direct follow ups to landed aerials). Marth has setups out of sourspot hits, but reacting to a sourspot that you weren’t expecting to get is real hard sometimes.

If I can take a risk that hits an aerial Marth half the time but I get hit by a non-tipper aerial the other half, well, I’ll take that. Vs Lucina I’ll just get out of the way and burst her down.

thats actually simplifying it a bit too much though, because Marth can also go for intentional sour spots and many times he’ll get the tipper hit. Either way it’s still the case that Marth gets more reward for pursuing grounded kill options

True, I do think Marth's aerial game is quite a bit worse than Lucina's since his sweetspots on aerials are quite tiny. His ground game is a bit better imo since his tilts have generous sweetspots (espicially on F-Tilt and Up-Tilt), but Roy's ground game is arguable more well rounded due to his key moves like Jab,and Down Tilt having less end lag & more well rounded shield safety (i.e. Roy's down-tilt is -3 on the hitbox when he is closest to the opponent & -7 when he is far away, while Marth's is -9 on the close hitbox & -6 on the far away hitbox).

I know Smash 4 and Ultimate are different games, but I do want to touch upon the mechanical differences since I think a lot of the little differences in the two games engine works to harm Marth and help Roy. Earlier I did (rather foolishly) complain about people's logic a bit earlier about Roy's up close sweetspot suddenly being called a good mechanic in this game when everyone was saying that it was a trash mechanic back in the Smash 4 days, but looking more closely at the general game mechanic differences between Smash 4 and Ultimate, it actually does make sense. A combination of Roy''s appraoch being noticably better due to being able to act of a dash sooner, his initial dash being significantly better (in smash 4, his initial dash was one of the worst in the game, where as now its one of the best), and having less landing lag on all his aerials + dropping shield and shieldgrabs being significantly weaker in this game all work to his advantage since his up close attacks are now significantly safer on sheild, whereas previously, he had to space very precisely in order to not get shield grabbed while also landing a sweetspot hit. That arguably is still the ideal way to space with Roy, but now, he is more lenient in how close he can be to the opponent without getting punished.

Conversely, I think most of the universal mechanics changes work to hurt Marth in Ultimate. Jab canceling being gone removed one of his strongest tools. The changes to Marth's initial dash are good, but the benfits are comparitively less compared to Roy or Lucina since he normally liked staying a tipper range (where his initially dash wouldn't be as big of a problem) rather than up close. The biggest mechanical nerfs to Marth are the changes to airdodging and the new balloon knockback. In smash 4, Marth had a pretty easy time punishing airdodges due to having better ranges than other characters, letting him punish their attackings out of an airdodge easier and trap the opponent easier for juggles due to the linear nature of airdodges. In this game, however, trapping the opponent from airdodges is a fair deal more difficult due to directional airdodging. Additionally, the new balloon knockback and reduced hitstun in ultimate make it much more difficult for Marth to follow-up from his sourspot attacks in ultimate. In Smash 4, they were stronger since Marth's Sourspot attacks launched the opponent a bit slower, making it easier for him to set up for a tipper (I.e. sourspot fair -> tipper F-Smash) however, similar sequences are a bit tricker to land in Ultimate or are just not true combos. For that reason, I think Marth's sourspots are a liability in this game, wheras in the previous game, they were arguably an advantage.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

ShinyMark's new tier list

based 2022 tier list tap in

not ordered between tiers btw pic.twitter.com/6JxR1xZj02

— ShinyMark🌙 (@ShinyMark1) February 19, 2022

 

[The_Bookworm]

Glitch - Infinite Top 32


Winner's
Cosmos vs Scend
Mugen vs Leon
Dabuz vs Beast
Goblin vs LOE1
Jake vs T3 DOM
Glutonny vs Zomba
Kola vs Vendetta
Gackt vs DDog


Loser's
SlushieV1 vs Light
Ikan vs Clique
Sonido vs Yori
Sytonix vs Sinji
BONK! vs Neeroz
Pink Fresh vs Tilde
WaDi vs Fatality
Raflow vs Suarez


Good day so far for the , , , , and playerbases.



Edit:
Top 8

Winner's
Cosmos vs Dabuz
Zomba vs Gackt

Loser's
Glutonny vs Vendetta
Jake vs Kola

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Good god Zomba.. He has put R.O.B to Murder-bot 3-0'ing Gackt and Cosmos to get to GF. Taking "Zombair" all the way to the bank

Glitch has also been a a breakout performance for Jake as well. Wow

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Good to see 2 Warios in the top 16.

 

[NairWizard]

So Cosmos wins Glitch Infinite. This week, MKleo said that he considers himself an Aegis main (alongside Byleth) rather than secondary. If you consider Cosmos top 5, which seems decently likely at this point based strictly on what we're seeing in his gameplay, then we have 3 Aegis mains in the top 5 player rankings.

 

[blackghost]

shoutouts to vendetta what a showing.

 

[Gleam]

I swear, has become one of the most versatile placing characters in this current meta. We had no less than 6 Steves, rampaging across the board of Glitch: Infinite, smashing through the Top 40s, 30s, 20s and 10s and of course Jake's 3rd spot. It's a true mark I feel of how this character's ability has just kind of, slipped through all cracks of the meta.

We've got a in 25th, but you know, I guess sometimes even the "worst" characters get a lucky break. Like seriously get this fat beast out of Bottom Tier immediately.

And of course a good shoutout to T3 DOM who has honestly always been able to push Richter to a very respectful distance.

Honest to flipping goodness, any Tier Lists made now should at this point not even bother having a Bottom Tier and then having maybe Ganondorf in Low Tier. I'm not sure if there is a single character in this game who doesn't have at least one prominent player of some sort getting at least Mid Tier results with a character. Might have to push down there, got to keep track of what Peanut is doing.

But seriously, we've got Richters in 13ths, DKs in 25ths, Bowser Juniors in 33rds, Meta Knights in 17ths,


There might be a few characters who arguably fall behind the line, but at times I legitimately think there's not much of a reason for any lists to go below Mid Tier. But you know what's sad? You know what's really ****ing sad?

Little is going to change in perspective. People are still going to treat as the literal garbage dumpster of Smash Ultimate who should be lucky he's even considered to get out of the same garbage tier as someone like Ganondorf, Mac or Dr. Mario. But Kazuya will always be this awesome, epic, insane High Tier beast of a monster even though his best players couldn't get higher than 33rd and his second best player 49th.

And don't get me wrong, 33rd is a solid placement, but it's amazing how much leeway Kazuya gets. People either need to get this inconsistent S.O.B out of High Tier, or we need to push 90% of the cast in so called Mid , up a tier.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So Cosmos wins Glitch Infinite. This week, MKleo said that he considers himself an Aegis main (alongside Byleth) rather than secondary. If you consider Cosmos top 5, which seems decently likely at this point based strictly on what we're seeing in his gameplay, then we have 3 Aegis mains in the top 5 player rankings.

Top 5 in NA probably. Unsure whether he's top 5 overall after two tournaments. My top 5 at this point is like Leo, Sparg0, Tweek, Zackray and either Tea or ProtoBanham.

BTW results for a Mexican regional that happened recently

1. Sparg0
2. WaKa
3. Skyjay
4. AlanDiss
5. ΩRugal
5. Daige
7. Many
7. Pollitopio
9. Waymas
9. Laloba
9. Inaqui
9. Linky

And here are placements for top 32 for Glitch Infinite

1. Cosmos
2. Zomba
3. Jake
4. Gackt
5. Glutonny
5. Dabuz
7. Vendetta
7. Kola
9. Goblin
9. Mugen
9. Tilde
9. Leon
13. Light
13. T3 DOM
13. LOE1
13. Scend
17. DDog
17. Ikan
17. Yori
17. Syntonix
17. BONK!
17. Beast
17. Fatality
17. Suarez
25. SlushieV1
25. Clique
25. Sonido
25. Sinji
25. Neeroz
25. PinkFresh
25. WaDi
25. Raflow

 

[F4lcoMain]

I swear, has become one of the most versatile placing characters in this current meta. We had no less than 6 Steves, rampaging across the board of Glitch: Infinite, smashing through the Top 40s, 30s, 20s and 10s and of course Jake's 3rd spot. It's a true mark I feel of how this character's ability has just kind of, slipped through all cracks of the meta.

We've got a in 25th, but you know, I guess sometimes even the "worst" characters get a lucky break. Like seriously get this fat beast out of Bottom Tier immediately.

And of course a good shoutout to T3 DOM who has honestly always been able to push Richter to a very respectful distance.

Honest to flipping goodness, any Tier Lists made now should at this point not even bother having a Bottom Tier and then having maybe Ganondorf in Low Tier. I'm not sure if there is a single character in this game who doesn't have at least one prominent player of some sort getting at least Mid Tier results with a character. Might have to push down there, got to keep track of what Peanut is doing.

But seriously, we've got Richters in 13ths, DKs in 25ths, Bowser Juniors in 33rds, Meta Knights in 17ths,


There might be a few characters who arguably fall behind the line, but at times I legitimately think there's not much of a reason for any lists to go below Mid Tier. But you know what's sad? You know what's really ****ing sad?

Little is going to change in perspective. People are still going to treat as the literal garbage dumpster of Smash Ultimate who should be lucky he's even considered to get out of the same garbage tier as someone like Ganondorf, Mac or Dr. Mario. But Kazuya will always be this awesome, epic, insane High Tier beast of a monster even though his best players couldn't get higher than 33rd and his second best player 49th.

And don't get me wrong, 33rd is a solid placement, but it's amazing how much leeway Kazuya gets. People either need to get this inconsistent S.O.B out of High Tier, or we need to push 90% of the cast in so called Mid , up a tier.

DK can be a pretty big threat if used correctly due to his big hitboxes & ability to take stocks early. However, his recovery, while not quite as bad as Dr Mario, Ganondorf, or Little Mac, is still one of the weaker recoveries in the game and is probably the biggest thing holding him back imo.

I think DK is on the lower end of the tier list in this game, but being on the lower end doesn't mean that he shouldn't be respected (same applies to other characters like Ganondorf, Little Mac, and Dr. Mario). And props to SlushieV1 for taking him so far in the tournament.