Combos and General Strategies

[XOSugar]

If you land a d-air spike onto stage at 70-90% (depending on weight), it will trigger the trip mechanic whereby the opponent has no choice but to get up in place. It's a free f-smash, and if you're by the ledge, it will probably kill.

Also d-throw+u-tilt is guaranteed at 0, and if they don't jump, then you can follow up with a n-air or u-air.

Both b-air and d-air spike. I'd use d-air for off stage spikes and b-air for ledge guarding. It has a hit box that can gimp bad recoveries like C.Falcon.

 

[Benergy]

A combo that I've been able to land a couple times:
Down Throw -> B-air -> Up-smash
this only works if you land the spike hit box of b-air, and the opponent misses the tech.
This combo should be done in the 50-70% range, depending on the character, it must be at this range because the spike into the ground will bounce the opponent up a little, perfect range for an up-smash.
So, it isn't REALLY practical, as it relies on the missed tech, but it's super fun to land!
Edit: Yes this kills, the combo itself does approximately 39 damage, give or take

 

[Dumbfire]

On another note, Lucas has insignificant and laggy item throws, which is very annoying when you do happen to catch a turnip / megaman blade / bomb (which is not difficult with Z-catching due to Lucas' good air mobility). He can't jump cancel back throw apparently, so you'll have to do a reversed dash-attack cancelled item throw with the tilt-stick: run in a direction, press Z to throw, then roll the control stick up fast while flicking the C-stick (set to attack) backwards and you'll turn around for a reverse throw with a very mild slide -- it's the best way to throw items with him I've found. You can test it with Link, you'll get the reverse fake-out slide with him. (The old DACUS input method doesn't appear to work.)

 

[ottobot]

dthrow->utilt actually true combos into uair as well, pretty simple little combo. might not be the best option out of dthrow tho, havnt had enough practice.

 

[XOSugar]

dthrow->utilt actually true combos into uair as well, pretty simple little combo. might not be the best option out of dthrow tho, havnt had enough practice.

Any aerial can only land provided they don't jump.

 

[PGP]

If you land a d-air spike onto stage at 70-90% (depending on weight), it will trigger the trip mechanic whereby the opponent has no choice but to get up in place. It's a free f-smash, and if you're by the ledge, it will probably kill.

Also d-throw+u-tilt is guaranteed at 0, and if they don't jump, then you can follow up with a n-air or u-air.

Both b-air and d-air spike. I'd use d-air for off stage spikes and b-air for ledge guarding. It has a hit box that can gimp bad recoveries like C.Falcon.

Hmmm, is the on-stage dair spike a jab lock? As in, the first hit spikes them and puts them into stumbling hitstun, they miss the tech, and then are hit with the remaining hits of dair and forced to get up.

Or is this not a jab lock and a different function in play altogether?

 

[XOSugar]

Hmmm, is the on-stage dair spike a jab lock? As in, the first hit spikes them and puts them into stumbling hitstun, they miss the tech, and then are hit with the remaining hits of dair and forced to get up.

Or is this not a jab lock and a different function in play altogether?

I think it's the same. I just don't know the terms for things because I'm incompetent.

 

[ottobot]

Hmmm, is the on-stage dair spike a jab lock? As in, the first hit spikes them and puts them into stumbling hitstun, they miss the tech, and then are hit with the remaining hits of dair and forced to get up.

Or is this not a jab lock and a different function in play altogether?

i think to be defined as a jab lock, they have to be physically incapable of teching. thats why the platform thing is special. granted this spike might do that as well, idk

 

[phili]

I would guess chaining N-airs is DI dependent. I just watch to see where they end up. Sometimes the last hit sets up easy U-tilts, which can set up into other things. N-air is a solid approach with combo potential, and it can cross up shields so it's relatively safe.

After playing about 50 matches with Lucas, it seems that chaining nairs is DI dependent, but not too much. The nair always sends them a bit in front of Lucas, so you just have to watch if they are DI'ing away or toward you and adjust your next nair slightly. This string is very reliable and I pull it off nearly every match. It took quite a bit of practice to get used to the timing, but once you get it down, I think this will become one of Lucas's bread and butter combos.

 

[Grim!]

i found out some combos

grap downthrow shorthop nair fastfall and grap up air this combo can be used on heavyweights from 0% / 8%
grap downthrow shorthop upair 0%/80%
grap downthrow nair 0/50%
grap downthrow fair

And the playstyle i found with lucas is more a zoning.Use zair for zoning and rack up damage with grap combos.
You can also use side B to zone just like fair.And you can kill with a back throw

 

[Kenturo]

If you down throw at high percents and they DI away from you then you can hit them with a sweetspot fair that can kill even earlier then down throw up air depending on your position on the stage.

 

[EnhaloTricks]

I'm finding that it's easier to space with a SH Reverse PK Fire than just a regular SH PK Fire. It's also a little more reliable at creating distance if they're putting a lot of pressure.

 

[Odaroloc]

The fact that its possible to spike an opponent that's offstage, without going offstage yourself is really good! With some decent timing, Lucas can really take advantage of linear recoveries, such as Fox?

It's so easy to throw someone off the edge, hop next to them, and spike. Most characters have a pause at the end of their recovery, and it's incredibly punishable for Lucas. His second jump is also safe, so you can pursue your opponent much further off the edge than they would think.

I know this isn't the MU thread, but what characters are you guys having the most trouble facing? For me, it's physical ranged characters like Link and DH. Sometimes, the spammy nature gets me. Usually, it's when there's lag, but still. I don't use PK Fire that often unless I know my opponent plans to approach by ground. PK Freeze is nice if they're in the air, but I still seldom rely on it. PK Thunder is a great gimping tool. Psi-Magnet is fantastic since it comes out quickly, and has the potential to do a little damage. Granted, even with these ranged tools, I can't get a decent approach on the ranged guys (mainly Link).

 

[EnhaloTricks]

I know this isn't the MU thread, but what characters are you guys having the most trouble facing? For me, it's physical ranged characters like Link and DH. Sometimes, the spammy nature gets me. Usually, it's when there's lag, but still. I don't use PK Fire that often unless I know my opponent plans to approach by ground. PK Freeze is nice if they're in the air, but I still seldom rely on it. PK Thunder is a great gimping tool. Psi-Magnet is fantastic since it comes out quickly, and has the potential to do a little damage. Granted, even with these ranged tools, I can't get a decent approach on the ranged guys (mainly Link).

I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't gone against many ranged characters since Lucas came out, but DHD was really hard to get to. I never managed to beat him, but I found well-timed short hops and perfect shields as well as using PK Fire on his items to make walls of fire worked decently. At least with DHD the hardest part wasn't getting in, it was getting in and doing a decent amount of damage. There were so many distractions that he would end up grabbing me or punishing a dodge on a gunner or can. I know I personally just need to go against more ranged players and get used to the matchup(s).

 

[Dumbfire]

Apparently our Zair can trip people, and it does link into things like Fsmash when hit with up close. That's far too dangerous to do in regular gameplay, but it means that you can use it to punish from a distance then lead into a guaranteed follow-up. Link's Zair had those properties in Brawl, take a look at this (1m43s mark).

 

[Benergy]

It's so easy to throw someone off the edge, hop next to them, and spike. Most characters have a pause at the end of their recovery, and it's incredibly punishable for Lucas. His second jump is also safe, so you can pursue your opponent much further off the edge than they would think.

I know this isn't the MU thread, but what characters are you guys having the most trouble facing? For me, it's physical ranged characters like Link and DH. Sometimes, the spammy nature gets me. Usually, it's when there's lag, but still. I don't use PK Fire that often unless I know my opponent plans to approach by ground. PK Freeze is nice if they're in the air, but I still seldom rely on it. PK Thunder is a great gimping tool. Psi-Magnet is fantastic since it comes out quickly, and has the potential to do a little damage. Granted, even with these ranged tools, I can't get a decent approach on the ranged guys (mainly Link).

Characters like Ryu or Luigi, with fantastic frame data give me some trouble, but the solution to that is playing really defensive, force your opponent to come to you. As for spammy characters? Its hard with lag, put PS and short hops are your very best friends haha.

 

[Pogoshark]

Sorry for the crude quality, I wasent bothered to set up my capture card
If you find yourself with your opponent in your hands and you know downthrow up air wont kill; you can back air instead and follow into up air.
Also good at mid percents when you just want to rack up damage

 

[Peppa]

I'm having a really hard time figuring out a reliable approach that's safe my Lucas so far has been super keep away until they hard commit then I grab but I played against some of the better players in the area and of course they won't commit to anything in the neutral so PK Fire and Zairs is all I have and to just poke then fish for a up throw or dtilt into fsmash or something.

 

[Token523]

I'm at work but I had a thought for a better kill set up. Try grab releasing into either dsmash or fsmash I think this might work for earlier kills

 

[wolvenreign]

Down Tilt Combos into side smash! It isn't a true combo, but your opponent will have to react VERY quickly because the landing lag caused by Down Tilt.

 

[darkchip1]

This isn't a true combo, but it works kind of consistently online. If your opponent doesn't DI at all, it almost seems guaranteed, but idk.

At highish percents (~90-110):
down throw, double jump, fast fall down air (procs a trip) into up smash

 

[EnhaloTricks]

if someone is recovering from off stage high you can bait an air dodge with a jump pk freeze then take advantage of the landing lag with an usmash. I've gotten it to work quite a lot while I've been playing.

 

[Burgundy]

Hey all. So yes, the Dthrow to Usmash true combo is possible on certain characters. I thought I'd try to find all the percents for this and whatnot. I know SOMEONE on here found this already, but I can't remember who and there doesn't seem to be a thread about it. Keep in mind this list doesn't account for Rage or DI, and most, if not all of these characters can probably DI out of this.

Spoiler: This is bigger than I thought

- Works until 10%, stops at 11%.


- Works until 20%, stops at 21%.


- Works until 27%, stops at 28%.


- Works until 27%, stops at 28%.


- Works until 14%, stops at 15%.


- Works until 18%, stops at 19%.


- Works until 22%, stops at 23%.


- Works until 9%, stops at 10%.


- Works until 19%, stops at 20%.


- Works until 26%, stops at 27%.


- Works until 31%, stops at 32%.


- Works until 24%, stops at 25%.


- Works until 50% (omg), stops at 51%.


- Works until 22%, stops at 23%.


- Works until 28%, stops at 29%.


- Works until 20%, stops at 21%.


- Works until 21%, stops at 22%.


- Works until 23%, stops at 24%.


- Works until 23%, stops at 24%.


- Works until 52% (jeez), stops at 53%.


- Works until 35%, stops at 36%.


- Works until 28% (D', stops at 29%.


- Works until 32%, stops at 33%.


- Works until 36%, stops at 37%.


- Works until 21%, stops at 22%.

This is all done on the 3DS Version against Lv. 3 CPUs on "Stop", on Omega Stages, but the stage isn't really a factor.

REMEMBER THESE CAN BE DI'd OUT OF.
These probably won't work against a competent player, but it can be fun to abuse on For Glory.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but if an opponent is recovering high, onto the stage, try to get under them and use PK Freeze to bait an airdodge. If you do it correctly, they'll have increased landing lag which will net you a free Usmash.

 

[brainsh0ck]

Hey, i've been trying something out and i think its reliable enough for me to post it here. At the edge, facing the stage, Lucas can down throw into Bair twice on all characters on the 50's %, and the second bair spikes very hard. Tried it with every character, the lighter they are the lower 50's you want them to be in in order to try this. Up until now, the only character that kinda breaks this is Jigglypuff. I don't know why, but the second bair never connects as a spike with her.

 

[PapaJ]

Basic things. Forgive me If they have been posted.

-Read Rolls. Lucas Usmash's first hitbox comes out on frame 29 (roughly have a second) Follow by another hitbox on frame 31. Since Lucas has the best Usmash in the game learning to read rolls and punishing will cause the opponent to either stop rolling or only roll away/spotdodge meaning you can punish effectively

-Down-B as a gimping tool is pretty great. You can choose to hold Down-B while offstage and if the opponent touches the magnet just let go and watch them as they fly even lower.

-Nair is a great move espeically if you FF during the animation, before the final hit. This will let you follow up with Utilt > Uair or some other combo.

-Pk fire is pretty good for recovery as everytime you do it in the air you get pushed back. Based on how high you are from the bottom blastzone you can do this enough times, jump, rope snake. This seriously helps against Rosaluma and villager MU's. Since they can steal your PK thunder.

- Dtilt is pretty great. Decent range and great frame data. Using this to interrupt and space yourself is great

-Lucas on edge guard can be very scary as he can use PKT, PK freeze, since it's actually a workable projectile now, Usmash, Dsmash, Dair, and Bair. All of these moves either do amazing damage, Spike, or have great KB. For example if the opponent grabs the ledge 3/4 options are taken care of with Usmash. They cannot jump, get up, get up attack (assuming you force them to get up since Usmash has ~65 frames of end lag) This leaves rolling which can be stopped by Fsmash.

-Lucas has a hoo haa on most of the cast. use it when you can. His Uair hitbox seems to be smaller then ness's but it's still doable.

That's basically everything I can think of for basics and general strategies.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

So I dunno if this has always been a thing for Lucas and that's why nobody mentions it but Lucas seems to have intangibilty/invincibility/something during his upsmash. If you try to attack him when he's about halfway through the startup (when his head is straight up right before his face goes from >_< to >.<). I don't know if it's his head only or his whole body but it's there. Maybe could catch a falling opponent off guard if you time it right. If this has already been pointed out or if its been around since Brawl I apologize in advance.

 

[Peppa]

I could be wrong but I think its up to frame 4 for invincibility?
I think it covers his whole body.
EDIT:
Smash 4 - Hits on - 28, 30 .......
Invincibility - 1-5/6
Duration: about 103/104
All PSI sparks disappear on 68 (doesn't necessarily mean the hitbox is gone)

From http://smashboards.com/threads/lucas-moveset-discussion-prerelease-rough-frame-data-in-op.397204/

 

[Odaroloc]

For such a powerful attack, I could see Usmash having invincibility once it's started. You would have to shoot a projectile at Lucas when he Usmashes to see if he would be interrupted. Has anyone tested this in Training? I don't have another person to do it with, and I dont like doing it alone, so if someone else would like to test it, thatd be awesome xD

Beyond the invincibility, in general, I don't think Usmash is as viable in competitive settings. In FG, people roll right into it, but it's much harder to land on someone who knows to keep their distance. It's a fun attack, but the lag on it seems to have more risk than reward

 

[arncakes]

SH Nair to Utiltx2 is so good at around 0-20%. Lots of Damage and allows for tons of aerial follow ups or even a Usmash if you read the air dodge. This has probably been mentioned already, but I just want to put emphasis on how useful it is.

 

[AirJordans]

For such a powerful attack, I could see Usmash having invincibility once it's started. You would have to shoot a projectile at Lucas when he Usmashes to see if he would be interrupted. Has anyone tested this in Training? I don't have another person to do it with, and I dont like doing it alone, so if someone else would like to test it, thatd be awesome xD

Beyond the invincibility, in general, I don't think Usmash is as viable in competitive settings. In FG, people roll right into it, but it's much harder to land on someone who knows to keep their distance. It's a fun attack, but the lag on it seems to have more risk than reward

I mean, it's a great move. You can only really do it based off of some hard reads, but if you've been conditioning your opponents to think you won't punish a roll that could lead to an usmash then the opportunity comes up every once in a while. I would say at least once a set.

 

[Odaroloc]

I mean, it's a great move. You can only really do it based off of some hard reads, but if you've been conditioning your opponents to think you won't punish a roll that could lead to an usmash then the opportunity comes up every once in a while. I would say at least once a set.

For punishes, I love using Dsmash. Most FG players (almost all) roll into you for some unknown reason, and with 3 shots, it's pretty effective. It's not something worth spamming because it's punishable, but I find it to be more reliable for reads. Plus, it has a small hitbox behind Lucas, so people rolling behind you can sometimes get hit by the third shot.

 

[MtnDewFerret]

So after the past few days, I have been having an incredibly tough time landing the B-Air spike. I land about 1 out of 10 I go for. Obviously, it gets irritating after a while, as it feels sometimes as If I should have landed them, but alas, nothing. Any tips for it?

 

[StinkyHands]

PK freeze > B-Air https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM5f407VIRc

 

[Odaroloc]

So after the past few days, I have been having an incredibly tough time landing the B-Air spike. I land about 1 out of 10 I go for. Obviously, it gets irritating after a while, as it feels sometimes as If I should have landed them, but alas, nothing. Any tips for it?

Generally, you only want to spike when your opponent is in the top half of the stage. It's much easier to line up, and there's a lot less risk involved. The closer they are to the ledge, the better. Another thing to remember is practice makes perfect, so go into training mode with some level 4's or something and practice setting up for the spike. High level computers are air-dodge masters, so it's best to keep them lower level. You want to get the spacing right, and this is a great way to go about it. Try with larger characters first like Donkey Kong, and then move to smaller ones. It takes time to space your jumps to where the opponent will be. Just hang in there, and you'll go far.

 

[MtnDewFerret]

Thanks, I'll try that.

 

[pikazz]

I am pretty sure people have said this but I love doing NAir -> NAir ... -> UAir in early % and it carries the opponent to the other side.
you can do NAir as many times as possible until you see that the opponent will either DI out of it or the % is catching up, so you can end it with a UAir!

 

[JesterJaded]

For such a powerful attack, I could see Usmash having invincibility once it's started. You would have to shoot a projectile at Lucas when he Usmashes to see if he would be interrupted. Has anyone tested this in Training? I don't have another person to do it with, and I dont like doing it alone, so if someone else would like to test it, thatd be awesome xD

Beyond the invincibility, in general, I don't think Usmash is as viable in competitive settings. In FG, people roll right into it, but it's much harder to land on someone who knows to keep their distance. It's a fun attack, but the lag on it seems to have more risk than reward

You're right in most cases, but I think we're forgetting Lucas's combo potential and how we can implement Usmash for early kills. With his footstool > jablock shenanigans, landing an Usmash becomes guaranteed, making it a very deadly factor in his moveset.

 

[Kenturo]

Lucas can get a regrab on certain characters. I tested half of the cast and so far it works on only Sheik, Greninja, and Fox. The combo is:

Dthrow> FH > Falling Nair> FF on second hit> Grab> Dthrow> FH Nair> DJ Nair> Up air for 50%

Lucas has a ton of intresting combos with FF Nair but that is for another day.

 

[MtnDewFerret]

While mostly combos have been posted, is there a concrete way I should be playing Lucas? I play aggressively for the most part, going in with SH Nairs and such. Should I be playing another way?