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Code Geass Mafia: OVAH

Vult Redux

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You are in my suspected scum/useless list, please make yourself useful and get out of that list, unless you're scum, in which case, stay right there please.
How unkind of you to say that to the one that ended the general goofballness RVS for you.

You have a list already? You've hardly seen me play yet. Why do you assume I'm useless rather than gambiting?

Edit:

Unvote, Vote: adumbrodeus
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
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You have a list already? You've hardly seen me play yet. Why do you assume I'm useless rather than gambiting?
Misdirection.

He didn't assume you were useless. He assumed you were useless or scum, because what you did what useless for town.


No big deal, it's early and all, but you gotta exprain.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
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@Frozen: What's your stance on keeping secrets?
I don't have a blanket stance on "keeping secrets". If you have certain info that only you are privvy to, you have to use your own discretion on whether or not you reveal that information to the general public. You need to play out exactly how more or fewer people knowing what you know will affect the game and ultimately answer the question of "will sharing this information benefit the town more than the mafia?" If the answer to the question is ultimately yes, you should be sharing what you know.

Obviously though, answering that question has a lot of factors in the equation. The value of your role, the value of the roles of anyone that said information might reveal, the value of the secrecy of player's relationships, night actions, etc. all need to be considered before you come to decide what information is worth sharing and with who.

Generally speaking you shouldn't be revealing more than you need to to prevent the mafia from being able to limit your ability to procure information or your ability to operate in a general sense, but if the "cats out of the bag" so to speak, and the information you are withholding is integral to discussion or has been asked for because it will answer questions for many other players, it's probably in your best interest to disseminate it.
 

adumbrodeus

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As for opinions on RVS, yeah its kinda lame but what else are you supposed to do? There really isn't a better alternative, it's just a natural stage in the evolution of the game.

Vote: adumbrodeous (as much as it pains me since that name is so awesome XD) for voting someone for posing a question about opinions on game development and taking a soft stance (Gustave) against RVS, which you (adum) seem to disagree with.

What about that stance is particularly scummy?
Applying pressure mostly, because he seemed to be against the random voting stage, which is how the town gets the information we need to start the game.

Yes, he had the post-note, but if it wasn't his feelings the question should've been more even.


Yes, reasoning-lite, but I'm currently looking for reasons to pressure people so we can get useful information for town, just like everyone should be, so in short, struck me as the most scummy at the time. However, I found a better target so for now, more useful things to come.



You wanna talk about how awesome my name is, wall post me, k? Now that we're past RVS, off-topic just detracts from scummhunting.


Also, why do you "hate to vote for me"? It's one vote, I'm nowhere near getting hammered and this is nowhere near endgame. At this point votes aren't personal insults or declarations of "you need to be lynched", they're pressure tools, treat them as such.


Wow, cmon, I specifically stated that what I ASKED about RVS was a general question RVS. I saw it in another game and got a discussion going. Luckily, it helped here as well.
I'm not taking a stance against RVS, I like the RVS.
It was a preferential question that suggested that you disliked it, though the game is young, and there are more important targets.
 

Vult Redux

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I don't have a blanket stance on "keeping secrets". If you have certain info that only you are privvy to, you have to use your own discretion on whether or not you reveal that information to the general public. You need to play out exactly how more or fewer people knowing what you know will affect the game and ultimately answer the question of "will sharing this information benefit the town more than the mafia?" If the answer to the question is ultimately yes, you should be sharing what you know.

Obviously though, answering that question has a lot of factors in the equation. The value of your role, the value of the roles of anyone that said information might reveal, the value of the secrecy of player's relationships, night actions, etc. all need to be considered before you come to decide what information is worth sharing and with who.

Generally speaking you shouldn't be revealing more than you need to to prevent the mafia from being able to limit your ability to procure information or your ability to operate in a general sense, but if the "cats out of the bag" so to speak, and the information you are withholding is integral to discussion or has been asked for because it will answer questions for many other players, it's probably in your best interest to disseminate it.
Gotcha.

Sorry.

I see now... You're being careful, not evasive.
 

Vult Redux

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NEVER EDIT YOUR POSTS!

your already showing your uselessness by that move.
Sorry. I wasn't sure what the policy was here.

Wait, editing my post was a useless move? Or was it the vote? If the latter, why?

He assumed you were useless or scum, because what you did what useless for town.
That's what I meant. He assumed what I did was useless for Town.

And in my opinion I don't think it was useless. Look at all the reads I'm getting from you guys [when you're not talking about whatever you were talking about before]! You agree, don't you?
 

Overswarm

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And in my opinion I don't think it was useless. Look at all the reads I'm getting from you guys [when you're not talking about whatever you were talking about before]! You agree, don't you?
No, I do not. There is currently limited activity, and from what I can see the only "read" you can get from all this is that some are willing to pressure and you aren't willing to explain yourself under pressure. Meaning you might as well be lynched D1 if you don't do something productive, at least.
 

adumbrodeus

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How unkind of you to say that to the one that ended the general goofballness RVS for you.

You have a list already? You've hardly seen me play yet. Why do you assume I'm useless rather than gambiting?

Edit:

Unvote, Vote: adumbrodeus
I'm not actually, you're on my SUSPECTED list, basically, I want you to explain yourself and if you are town-aligned, play better.

Of course, if you have a useful gambit in the works, feel free to use it and prove me wrong. Just remember, if you end up being lynched as useless before that happens, you failed and are useless. The edit further convinced me btw.


Don't take it to heart though, this is mafia, "useless" doesn't mean "stupid", this game is difficult, so get better.


Misdirection.

He didn't assume you were useless. He assumed you were useless or scum, because what you did what useless for town.


No big deal, it's early and all, but you gotta exprain.
Just to clarify, I'm not assuming anything yet, just suspecting.



That's what I meant. He assumed what I did was useless for Town.

And in my opinion I don't think it was useless. Look at all the reads I'm getting from you guys [when you're not talking about whatever you were talking about before]! You agree, don't you?
And at the same time, drew suspicion on yourself, whatever side you're on, that's a bad idea.


When you do something intended to be smart that actually makes the situation worse then before, that's brilliantly stupid, and being brilliantly stupid is useless.
 

Sephiroths Masamune

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Sorry. I wasn't sure what the policy was here.

Wait, editing my post was a useless move? Or was it the vote? If the latter, why?
Editing the post was a useless move, if you don't know the rules than all you're doing is hurting the town.

What do you mean you don't know the policy? It was clearly stated in the OP and is a constant rule in all Mafia games.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
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Applying pressure mostly, because he seemed to be against the random voting stage, which is how the town gets the information we need to start the game.

Yes, he had the post-note, but if it wasn't his feelings the question should've been more even.
These are things I know. You don't need to tell me this lol. I already said he had a soft stance against RVS (derived from the wording of the question, which as you said, was uneven)


Yes, reasoning-lite, but I'm currently looking for reasons to pressure people so we can get useful information for town, just like everyone should be, so in short, struck me as the most scummy at the time. However, I found a better target so for now, more useful things to come.
So your answer is it just "struck you as the most scummy at the time"? That answer still sort of begs the question I initially posed (why is that soft stance scummy at all).



You wanna talk about how awesome my name is, wall post me, k? Now that we're past RVS, off-topic just detracts from scummhunting.

Also, why do you "hate to vote for me"? It's one vote, I'm nowhere near getting hammered and this is nowhere near endgame. At this point votes aren't personal insults or declarations of "you need to be lynched", they're pressure tools, treat them as such.
First of all I didn't want to talk about how awesome your name was. How did I frame that is my post intent at all? It was in parenthesis as a joking side note! I also never said I "hated" voting for you in ANY serious context. Again, saying "it pains me" was in parenthesis in a CLEARLY non-serious context. Don't try to baby me about what a vote means and represents dude, I know, I've been playing mafia for likely quite a bit longer than you have and I've had that discussion plenty of times, and I have no SERIOUS problem voting for you. As a matter of fact the way you're reacting to my post and answering (well, not really) my question is actually convincing me that it's in the right place.
 

adumbrodeus

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These are things I know. You don't need to tell me this lol. I already said he had a soft stance against RVS (derived from the wording of the question, which as you said, was uneven)


So your answer is it just "struck you as the most scummy at the time"? That answer still sort of begs the question I initially posed (why is that soft stance scummy at all).
For the same reason I initially applied to my vote, soft stances against something useful to town are only slightly less scummy then hard stances.

It's still taking the same opinion "that something which is important to the town is useless", so I fail to see how taking a hard stance is much less scummy then a soft one.


First of all I didn't want to talk about how awesome your name was. How did I frame that is my post intent at all? It was in parenthesis as a joking side note! I also never said I "hated" voting for you in ANY serious context. Again, saying "it pains me" was in parenthesis in a CLEARLY non-serious context. Don't try to baby me about what a vote means and represents dude, I know, I've been playing mafia for likely quite a bit longer than you have and I've had that discussion plenty of times, and I have no SERIOUS problem voting for you. As a matter of fact the way you're reacting to my post and answering (well, not really) my question is actually convincing me that it's in the right place.
So... that part was just as much fluff as before, only in a different way...


I haven't taken the time to metagame you yet, so I only know your abilities based on your experiences, if you clog the discussion up with fluff, whatever it may be, I can only assume you're not useful.
 

Vult Redux

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Of course, if you have a useful gambit in the works, feel free to use it and prove me wrong. Just remember, if you end up being lynched as useless before that happens, you failed and are useless. The edit further convinced me btw.
What did the edit convince you of?

Editing the post was a useless move, if you don't know the rules than all you're doing is hurting the town.

What do you mean you don't know the policy? It was clearly stated in the OP and is a constant rule in all Mafia games.
So you don't think my vote change was useless?

What DO you think of my vote change?

At the site where I play more often editing posts is okay as long as it's still the last post in-thread. Old habits. Won't happen again.
 

Overswarm

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vult said:
Why take me seriously?!

Not that the vote wasn't serious... It's just, I thought people would dismiss it as not-serious.

I'll explain it another time. Promise!
Explain.

10 votes for vult
 

adumbrodeus

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What did the edit convince you of?

You should not be editing your posts, failing a basic restriction common to all forum mafia doesn't speak well of your abilities, granted it puts you more in the useless category then scum inherently. Furthermore, past the RVS OMGUS votes don't exactly speak well of you.

I'm not convinced of anything yet because the game is too young but...


At the site where I play more often editing posts is okay as long as it's still the last post in-thread. Old habits. Won't happen again.
See that they don't.
 

Vult Redux

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@Gustave: Why are you holding onto your random Gheb vote if you are [seem?] suspicious of me?

and from what I can see the only "read" you can get from all this is that some are willing to pressure
That's not true though. Each person has slightly different reasons for voting me, and later in the game it will be useful to reread and decide whether it looks like that's coming from a genuine Town perspective or a "OMG Easy target!!!" perspective.

What do you think about Frozen's response to my vote for him?
 

Overswarm

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adumbrodeus

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That's not true though. Each person has slightly different reasons for voting me, and later in the game it will be useful to reread and decide whether it looks like that's coming from a genuine Town perspective or a "OMG Easy target!!!" perspective.

What do you think about Frozen's response to my vote for him?
So you're painting a massive "vote for me" target on your forehead?

If you ARE town attracting all of towns attention to you just makes it easier for scum to hide in the shadows because you just get called on your eccentricities and have to constantly defend yourself whereas only a tiny amount of meaningful conversation is produced by mafia members.

Add that to the fact that good mafia buses mercilessly so they'll be going at you just as hard whether or not you're scum and the result is that you've produced NO USEFUL INFO!

It's Vult Redux
Lol, ironic.
 

Vult Redux

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Now that I think about it, you changed your stance to counter the pressure. Your change was based on the fact that he thought you were scum. Tell me if I’m wrong.
Nonono. My post 81 explains it, kind of. But to better explain: I voted him because he seemed to completely disregard a gambit. I'd expect a Town player to consider it or perhaps even look into it further [like Overswarm did when I meta'd me!]. Disregarding it entirely gave me the impression that it was Scum jumping on an easy wagon under the guise of "he's useless. period. off with his head."

Okay fine. Frozen is my Neighbor.
 

Jim Morrison

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1.
I think you guys misinterpreted my question. English is a second language for me, I guess I wasn't familiar with how to make a question without making it look like my own opinion.

2. Vult, Gheb hasn't posted, I'd just keep my vote on him. I didn't find you that suspicious, but OS keeps asking you to explain, and yea, I want you to explain as well. Don't procrastinate if you have the time to argue all these other things.

Unvote, Vote: Vult_Redux
You made sense, I SHOULD vote for you.
 

-Rei-

Saviour of PacWest
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i'm here now

from what i see is that vult redux edited his post

i'm sorta new in dgames also

so i want to ask what is your experience in mafia?

vote: vult redux
 

Vult Redux

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If you ARE town attracting all of towns attention to you just makes it easier for scum to hide in the shadows... only a tiny amount of meaningful conversation is produced by mafia members.
Not true! Very not true!

If any Mafia has voted for me, I'm forcing them to talk now, getting them to explain themselves.

If any Town are voting me, I'm forcing them to talk about their vote and helping to give myself and other players a read on them.

This conversation is not less meaningful than any conversation that took place before I posted. Agree or no?
 

Vult Redux

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Now that's interesting. Why does this make him mafia to you?
I didn't vote him because he's my neighbor. Something he said gave me eeeeeh-vibes, so I voted him in a way that would get people to talk about it.

But I changed my mind on him and I won't be going further detail unless something changes later.
 

-Rei-

Saviour of PacWest
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Wow if this isn’t scumtell I don’t know what is, he just jumped onto the wagon.

Unvote, Vote: Rei

not really.

since i was reading. wanting to know more information on another member really isn't scummy.

my vote and gustave's vote happened at the same time.



also while we're talking sephiroth masamune.

what are your thoughts on searching for scum?

should we rvs and see reactions or wait for slips during their post

basically should we be active or passive?
 

Vult Redux

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1.I think you guys misinterpreted my question. English is a second language for me, I guess I wasn't familiar with how to make a question without making it look like my own opinion.
Which question? Can you point it out to us and then reword it?
 

adumbrodeus

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Before I unvoted, lynch -3.


Rei, why DID you jump on that bandwagon?





Not true! Very not true!

If any Mafia has voted for me, I'm forcing them to talk now, getting them to explain themselves.

If any Town are voting me, I'm forcing them to talk about their vote and helping to give myself and other players a read on them.

This conversation is not less meaningful than any conversation that took place before I posted. Agree or no?
That's the thing, you're really not forcing anybody to do anything, this is all about picking you for something stupid, you're producing many times more material then any other play is.


So, while it might be a tad more useful then what was here before, if you're town, it's a hell of a lot less useful then the conversations we could've had. The problem is, assuming you're town, you're producing too much material on yourself and there's a good reason to be suspicious so trapping scum is almost impossible with this.


Of course if you're scum, it's the most useful conversation possible.

I didn't vote him because he's my neighbor. Something he said gave me eeeeeh-vibes, so I voted him in a way that would get people to talk about it.

But I changed my mind on him and I won't be going further detail unless something changes later.
You're in the hotseat atm, so you need to explain if you want any hope of escaping lynch today.
 

adumbrodeus

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also while we're talking sephiroth masamune.

what are your thoughts on searching for scum?

should we rvs and see reactions or wait for slips during their post

basically should we be active or passive?
Active, always, it's early enough in the game.
 

-Rei-

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well as i was reading

i saw he was sorta new to the boards and wanted to see his experience in mafia tbh

he also had 0 posts

so maybe he didn't know the no edit rule

also i wasn't expecting to be ninja'd by gustave
 

-Rei-

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i also agree with the players in being active

since there is more information coming in

at the same time it would allow scum to make a slip
 

Sephiroths Masamune

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not really.

since i was reading. wanting to know more information on another member really isn't scummy.

my vote and gustave's vote happened at the same time.



also while we're talking sephiroth masamune.

what are your thoughts on searching for scum?

should we rvs and see reactions or wait for slips during their post

basically should we be active or passive?
Nice changing the subject. It wasn’t that you and Gustav did at the same time made me suspicious, it was your wording, you had no cause for action. You basically said I’m going to jump on the band wagon to drive suspicion off of me.


Active, by being passive nothing will be done and there is no definite chance that scumtells will happen.
 

-Rei-

Saviour of PacWest
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i never saw any suspicion placed upon me before making the vote

also i stated it was for his edit

i also want to know his experience in playing the game
 

Jim Morrison

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Who feels like RVS is unnecessary and a time waster? (question, not expressing my own feelings)
There's the original question.
I don't know how to word it better without making it sound like it's my own opinion.

About activity leading to more scumslips;
That could work if scum isn't decent at this game, but don't expect that.
 

Vult Redux

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That's the thing, you're really not forcing anybody to do anything, this is all about picking you for something stupid, you're producing many times more material then any other play is.
That's true, and not explicitly a bad thing either, is it?

So, while it might be a tad more useful then what was here before, if you're town, it's a hell of a lot less useful then the conversations we could've had. The problem is, assuming you're town, you're producing too much material on yourself and there's a good reason to be suspicious so trapping scum is almost impossible with this.
A tad bit?! Come on, let's make some concessions here... Or point out to me how anything posted before I posted is useful for the Town.

Not much harm will come from producing material about myself, especially now that I've cleared up the ambiguity.

Plus we now have information about others that we can pursue if need be. It doesn't have to be just me giving information.
 
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