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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

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D

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They didn't leave Roy as "a bad version of Marth", even though that's what he was in Melee - they tweaked his moves and made him a viable option. Pichu could get that same love. : >
The difference bw Roy and Pichu is that Roy was never intended to be a joke character who hurts himself by the developer himself. Roy was meant to be an alternate playstyle to that of Marth, one that focused on slower more close range hits (his sweet spot is the middle of the blade) with an added "burn effect" to rack up damage. You know where Pichu's strengths lie? When items are turned on. That's right, he's the BEST character to play as when you got items, and as long as items are not competitively viable, Pichu's intended design won't be seen in PM. There's a reason why Pichu was picked as the April Fools JOKE. It wouldn't be a "**** move" to leave him out, it was meant to be a joke from the beginning.



Actually, they clarified in the original clone engine thread that Roy was ~300 hours, and Mewtwo was the one who was 700. Roy's got a few brand new moves, as well as some crazy stuff going on with his side-B, so that's probably where a majority of that time was spent.
I like how you say 300 as if that wasn't already A LOT of time... Roy might have new moves, but his intended design remains unchanged. Pichu's intended design is to be purposely bad.


It's entirely possible that Pichu would take even less time than that, since I don't think it'd be necessary to give him any new moves. Just make his payoff more rewarding and speed him up a bit, so that he really feels like a glass cannon and not a joke. We're still talking a significant time investment, but now you're comparing 700+ hours for a new character to less than 300 for a returning veteran.

It's fine if you still think Pichu isn't worth it, I'd never tell you how to feel - but at least in that context, you can see where some of us are coming from. =)
In understand your context, but I still feel it's a terrible idea and a waste of time. There are other clones that could be added in that would take about as much effort and have a better payoff. Thinking of strictly clones, or clone-likes. Sami, Dark Samus, and Bowser Jr. come to mind. Actually, Jr. would probably be the best "clone" to add to the roster and a much better glass cannon than Pichu could ever be.



I'd guess Dixie. I think there's a lot of love for the DK crew in the PMBR, and there's so many interesting directions to take that character. I'd love to see the PMBR take a shot at a Tekken-styled "clone", where half of the moves come from one character, and half come from another. Dixie with some of DK's stuff, some of Diddy's stuff, and a couple new moves coming from her. That could be pretty sick, and open up the door for a bunch of hybridized new characters.

Edit: And ofc, Dixie as a brand new character would be hype too. :D
I see. That's your opinion and I respect it, but do you really think Dixie would be the first reveal for PM when she's got such a good shot at getting in?

I'd say that she'd be one of the final reveals if anything. Well after Smash 4's roster has been confirmed.
 

Anti Guy

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Thus, which characters are the most interesting to them?.

Well there's not much point in arguing over whether representation is important or not, so if you think it isn't and it's more what that character brings to the table, then I'd like to discuss Lyn, who is one of the most popular characters on this thread. Representation is one of the main arguments about her and that she's female. So if gameplay is really all that matters, then those two shouldn't be much of an issue.

My question is then what does she actually bring to the table for gameplay? The fact is, she only uses two weapons in her game: swords (represented as a katana in her unique weapons and in her sprites) and bows.

Only Link, TL, and Pit use both swords and bows (to use as a base). Marth and Ike don't have the articles to add in a bow. Link and TL have all kinds of other items that Lyn doesn't use (although you can just replace them, so that doesn't matter), but Pit has a weird sword thing, so I don't think he makes a good base. So ultimately, one idea is using Link as a base so that she can have a bow, and then make custom animations for all her sword attacks.

The other option is that you can just ignore the fact that she can use bows (which isn't a first... Captain Falcon uses a gun, for example... and then there's Ganondorf) and use Ike as a base. A faster, lighter hitting version of Ike, whose attacks are much closer to Lyn's fighting style.

Either way, ultimately we're getting yet another sword character. And while this is another "yet another" argument, this is for gameplay rather than representation. The game already has so many sword users, do we need another? What can she actually bring to the table, ahead of everyone else? Especially if it feels like everyone here wants Isaac, who is another sword user (but with unique specials... which I'm wondering can even be done) -- and don't give me BS about him being able to use an axe; he is mainly seen with a sword. If Isaac gets in, that will be a new sword character in Roy, a new sword character in Isaac, and then another sword character in Lyn. That's a lot to swallow.

It's a shame the support isn't there for someone like Micaiah instead, who is another female FE lord, but she can at least bring a little more diversity by instead of cloning another sword character, cloning Zelda for a faster, speedier version.
 

ChronoBound

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In regards to Lyn, the thing is if the team wants to add another "woman" (note I said woman, not female) newcomer, their choices are scant.

Dixie Kong is technically female, and a great choice for one of the newcomers, however, she is a monkey (though I do think she should be one of the characters that should be selected).

Krystal is more of a "woman" than Dixie Kong, but scantily clad furries disgust or disturb a lot of people, not to mention the character itself is very divisive, and from polls I have done, there is actually less support for a fourth Star Fox than their is for a fourth Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, or even Kirby character. That the series even has three characters despite most of his praise coming from basically one game (Star Fox 64), shows that sometimes personal bias may be at play for Sakurai's roster decisions (see also FE getting two slots in Melee).

Then you have Toon Zelda, who is actually planned for Brawl, but there is very little support for her, and most people are not keen on "alter ego" clones aside from maybe Toon Link, but even there there is a lot of people who whine about him.

Micaiah is a possible Zelda clone, though has much less support than Lyn.

Palutena would be a great woman newcomer to choose, but there is three things going against her:
1. She is probably going to end up playable in Smash 4.
2. She would require A LOT of work considering she uses a weapon unlike any other in the series, and she would probably need some unique projectiles to stay true to her.
3. Rather weak demand to be in Project M.

Sami would be another good woman newcomer choice (easy Snake clone and represents the long-running Famicom/Advance Wars franchise), but she is basically unknown to many Nintendo fans of today's age, so she could be a risk. Still think she would be a great choice, but I am not optimistic on her happening.

Another choice could be Lip I guess. But she is even more obscure than Sami, and unlike Sami would have to be a non-clone (though Lip's flower baton is already in the game).

If the Project M team wants a woman newcomer, I think Lyn is going to be who they go with just looking at what they have on their table.

I definitely do think though that we should get two new series represented with the five newcomer choices. Golden Sun is obvious (Isaac). However, you also have the long running series of Advance Wars and Panel de Pon. Between Sami and Lip, Sami might be the better choice (much more feasible due to Sami being an easy possible clone for Snake), and Lip's design is probably going to be a turn off for some (personally, I would not mind Lip so long as they black out the area under her dress, I don't want loli upskirts in Smash Bros.).
 

Anti Guy

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I don't see why we need another woman... I honestly don't care how many female characters there are, and it's not like there's a female quota
 

AnOkayDM

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I think three FE characters is certainly enough. If we have to get another one though, I'd prefer someone who uses a lance or an axe, or even a spellcaster.

I know the katana fighting style is different, but when FE specifically has three separate weapon types and they're all pretty well-represented, there's absolutely no reason for every character from the series to use a sword.

Ephraim would be a decent choice, I think, as he uses a lance.
 

ChronoBound

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I don't see why we need another woman... I honestly don't care how many female characters there are, and it's not like there's a female quota
I personally don't care either, but a lot of people do.

What I do care about is that more Nintendo franchises get represented (particularly those with at least three installments under their belt). Isaac seems unanimous in his support, so I am expecting him to be one of the five. However, I definitely think there should be another new series newcomer added in as well.

Advance Wars and Panel de Pon are the two that come to mind (Starfy and Ray from Custom Robo might also be choices). Between them all, I think Sami is the most feasible since she could feasibly be a clone.
 

loganhogan

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I voted for Micaiah, although it was a half vote. In Lyn's defense she could be the very first female character in Project M that uses swords. At least looking at it from the perspective of the female roster she stands out more than Micaiah. There are gun users, magic users, hammer, and melee fighting characters but none of the females use a sword.
 

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I voted for Micaiah, although it was a half vote. In Lyn's defense she could be the very first female character in Project M that uses swords. At least looking at it from the perspective of the female roster she stands out more than Micaiah. There are gun users, magic users, hammer, and melee fighting characters but none of the females use a sword.

Yes, but what does she bring to the table based on moveset alone? You're saying she brings something as a female who uses swords, but that has absolutely no impact on gameplay. What is so important about having female characters? Remember the first SSB only had Samus as a female character. I don't think being female has ever been a prerequisite or an advantage.
 
D

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Well there's not much point in arguing over whether representation is important or not, so if you think it isn't and it's more what that character brings to the table, then I'd like to discuss Lyn, who is one of the most popular characters on this thread. Representation is one of the main arguments about her and that she's female. So if gameplay is really all that matters, then those two shouldn't be much of an issue.
I was actually hoping you'd do that so I'd get a chance to properly defend a character I've supported since preBrawl.


My question is then what does she actually bring to the table for gameplay? The fact is, she only uses two weapons in her game: swords (represented as a katana in her unique weapons and in her sprites) and bows.

Only Link, TL, and Pit use both swords and bows (to use as a base). Marth and Ike don't have the articles to add in a bow. Link and TL have all kinds of other items that Lyn doesn't use (although you can just replace them, so that doesn't matter), but Pit has a weird sword thing, so I don't think he makes a good base. So ultimately, one idea is using Link as a base so that she can have a bow, and then make custom animations for all her sword attacks.

The other option is that you can just ignore the fact that she can use bows (which isn't a first... Captain Falcon uses a gun, for example... and then there's Ganondorf) and use Ike as a base. A faster, lighter hitting version of Ike, whose attacks are much closer to Lyn's fighting style.

Well, first and foremost, it's not about what a character can bring to the table in terms of what their weapons are, but rather, what they can do as far as what their model/mold or so on allows your imagantion to give them. Now I understand what a riddiculously broad statement that is, so bear with me for a second, and you'll soon understand what I mean by that.

Personally, I think removing Lyn's ability to use bows is the best way to go about it. Actually, her ideal playstyle and the one that meshes the best with what we see in the cannon is that of a speedy close range character. Lightning fast actually. Thus, the best base for Lyn are either Marth or Sheik. I personally vouch for Sheik. Especially since battoujutsu is performed by only drawing the sword to attack, and keeping it sheathed during all other actions.


Either way, ultimately we're getting yet another sword character. And while this is another "yet another" argument, this is for gameplay rather than representation. The game already has so many sword users, do we need another? What can she actually bring to the table, ahead of everyone else? Especially if it feels like everyone here wants Isaac, who is another sword user (but with unique specials... which I'm wondering can even be done) -- and don't give me BS about him being able to use an axe; he is mainly seen with a sword. If Isaac gets in, that will be a new sword character in Roy, a new sword character in Isaac, and then another sword character in Lyn. That's a lot to swallow.
"Another Sword character" is a bad argument because people are too shallow to look at the inherent design concepts in a character. They see an article and believe that's what defines them. Isaac for example also carries a sword, but his fighting style would be radically different from anything already in Smash as well, using the sword minimally.

Look at this roster really quick:


20% of the roster is sword users, and this is regarded as one of the most diverse and fierce fighters in the industry. And each of those sword users is RADICALLY different from the other. So, if we take away clones (Roy and TLink), we're really left with 4 different sword styles (Marth's, Ike's, Link's, and Meta Knight's - 5 if you wanna add Pit's dual swords). Ultimately, does it REALLY matter so much WHAT a character is using to fight? No, not at all. As sword users, Link, Marth and Meta Knight all play VASTLY different from each other, so really adding Lyn or Isaac in, is a non-issue if you have half a brain. It'd be like complaining about adding *insert character here* because they fight with their fists... How many fist users do we have in Smash? In a way, it kinda goes back to the "representation" arguement.

So now, lets look at what Lyn can bring to the table in terms of fighting style that has NOT been seen in Smash ever before:

Lyn's greatest strength lies in the inspiration for her fictional fighting style. Take a look at the animation for her strikes in FE:


Notice how her sword is sheathed before she strikes? This is called Battoujutsu. Those who have read Ruroni Kenshi know what I'm talking about, but it's actually fairly common in media in Japan. For example, Guilty Gear's Baiken uses a similar style:









But just to add a few more visual representations of what I see in this style:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFIVxm6eKBA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_C_xEqSwOQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDwVvAhyEw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwlpnxUZsdA

Likewise, you can see more of it in Big Bang Beat's Senna:









So in short.

What IS this fighting style? And what makes it unique, well first off, the obvious stuff. It is a Japanese sword style, that uses a Katana, Katana users are null in Smash, there isn't a single one, so technically, though a "sword user" a Katana and a Western sword are actually as different from each other as an RPG and a rifle, or to make a simpler analogy an Axe and a Spear. So that easily overcomes the pesky "b-but, ANOTHER sword user" argument. Though still a sword, it's a very different tool from what we've seen in Smash so far.

Now, to define the style. Well, as you saw in what I posted, it's a lightning fast fighting style in which the sword remains sheathed when not used and is pulled out very quickly to strike (one, two, three or more times) and then resheathed. It is focused on explioting the openings and weaknesses you see on an attacking opponent and punishing them severely with quick an ruthless combos. It's a lethal killing technique that requieres very quick reflexes. It is also a very defensive fighting style that requieres as much mental capacity as it does physical. A calm and clear head that can read opponents quite well. A swift killing art that is focused on ending combat as soon as possible with lethal and controlled strikes.

So how do we translate that into Smash? Well, simple, Lyn would be a very fast character, much faster than all of the other sword users, with very fast attacks that have low knockback, decent hitstun but also low lag so she can quickly punish with combos. To compensate, she's very frail in terms of defence. However, using a defensive sword style, obviously she'd be a character who can make healthy use of the counter, much better than Marth or MK ever could, an it would actually be a central part of her fighting style, much like Baiken in GG (and Hakumen in BB).

Anyway, I cover all the details here:

[collapse= repostan because YES]
The Moves:
STATS:
Weight: 82
Fall Speed: 2.4 http://www.ssbwiki.com/Falling_speed
Air Speed: 1.222 http://www.ssbwiki.com/Air_speed
Dash Speed: Rank 2 (Melee Fox, and Brawl C.Falcon) http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dashing
Rolling Frames- Forward: 6-19/23 Backward: 7-21/27 http://www.ssbwiki.com/Rolling
Jump Height: Rank 6, Melee Sheik, Force: 2.80 http://www.ssbwiki.com/Jumping
Traction: 0.08 http://www.ssbwiki.com/Traction
Learning Curve: Medium


ADVANTAGES:
-Great running speed and attack speed, as well as good air speed and solid traction giving her awesome mobility.
-Fall speed allows her to stay airborn long enough to maintain her aerial combos, but fall fast enough to keep her grounded to follow up.
-Fast sword strikes allow her to do combos flawlessly.
-Gatling cancels further facilitate this.
-Good knockback from some of her Smash attacks making her a lethal killer. Allowing her to score kills at around 100%.
-Best counter in the game is a very useful tool for approach and evasion.
-Great approach options, and strings.
-Her UpB is a very useful maneuver for follow ups and evasive maneuvers.
-Vanishing rolls, and Smash Charges can make her unpredicatable

DISADVANTAGES:
-Fast Fall speed combined with a poor 3rd Jump means she has a time recovering.
-No ranged attacks.
-Easily killed and her combo potential is diminsed at higher damage.
-Throws are useless offensively as they don't set up opponents. They're only useful defensively.
-Shorter attack range and relatively low stun damage puts her in harms way.


Specials
[COLLAPSE="Standard B: Counter"]


As I said, the best counter in the game, it comes out much faster than Marth's however, the timing is a bit more tricky, you have to be skilled in order to use this. Like all counters, she's invincible when DOING the counter. Also, in addition to using this technique, you have the opportunity to follow up with one of 4 commands, each one doing something different.

-Not doing a command will cause her to parry her opponent's attack and leave them open to a counter attack, she sets them up at her sweetspot, but does practically no damage doing this (1%-2%).

-Pressing A right after she counters her opponent's attack will cause her to counter attack with a rapid slash, it does decent damage (13%) and knockback allowing you to pursue your opponents.

-If you instead choose to press B, Lyn will vanish and appear behind her opponent and slash them with a powerful slash, this is a very quick move, however, the slight delay does allow your opponent some time to block if they see it coming, this is where the mind games come in as this is MUCH more powerful attack than the A variation, doing 16% damage and very good knockback, still not quite a killing move, but at high damages it just might earn you a KO.

-Your final option is pressing Jump and any direction (or no direction), with which Lyn will vanish and reappear a short distance away in the direction you pressed. She doesn't cover mush ground with this, but enough for evasive maneuvers. This is essentially her defense against Powerful Ranged Attacks and Explosives, but it can also be used for mind games.

Now, in addition to all this, whiffing Lyn's counter has less delay than Marth's, Peach's, Ike's or even Meta Knight's. This is done due to how tricky the timing can be on it (about as tricky as Hakumen's drive), but she's still open to a counter-attack from quick attacks. Also, her counter works on everything from attacks to projectiles to command grabs (like Bowser's Side B), not Normal Grabs (Z/Shield+A) though.[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Side B: Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki (someone more creative can rename this)"]


She pushes the ground with her front foot and vanishes appearing a certain distance from her starting location. It has much less range than Fox's Illusion, but it is an effective killing move. She only attacks if she catches an opponent with it, so outside of that, it's an OK recovery move as it can also be used in mid-air. It has landing lag on both occasion, but double if she attacks, and the knockback only happens when she sheathes her sword having a delayed effect, so she DOES leave herself exposed to attack for a bit, but you have to be quick. It does 13% damage if it hits, and opponents are sent flying downward.[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="UpB: Leap of Faith"]

She kicks off the ground doing a high leap, landing back on the ground safely. It is a very quick jump, and if used on the ground it can be used as an evasive failsafe as most of her moves can cancel into it. This attack does no damage, but it is very functional, Lyn never goes into recovery mode allowing Lyn to use this move as a sort of High Jump or Jump cancel to follow up with combos. Likewise, it can be cancelled out of my most of her techniques as well. The height of the move is about the same height as her regular jumps, however it is MUCH quicker than her normal jumps, making it a great move for combos.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="DownB: Suio-ryu Iai Kenpou"]


She draws her sword and does a rapid slash. This move is delay-able allowing her to concentrate, thus increasing the damage, knockback and range a bit. The high angle of the move makes it a good Anti-Air move, and the fact that you can delay it makes for good mindgames. You can only delay it for a maximum of 2 seconds. 9% damage uncharged, 14% fully charged. It launches opponents upward a set distance regardless of charge and damage. Obviously it's also usable in the air as well. [/COLLAPSE]

Normal Attacks

Her normal attacks are divided into slashes and kicks, learning to flow between them is the best way to effectively use her offensive prowess.

A = Lyn hits with the hilt of her sword. After landing this hit you can press A again and she will perform a Knee Strike to the Solar Plexus. Finaly, press A 3rd time and she stabs her opponent's foot with her sword. It is a quick move and hits low, it also causes opponents to bounce upon getting hit. Setting them up for combos.
Damage: 1st hit: 2%, 2nd hit: 4%, 3rd hit: 5%

><+A = Lyn does a rounhouse kick with her back leg towards her opponent's head and continues the spin leaving her back exposed. You can then press A again to do a reverse horizontal slash with her sword similar to Kenshin's Ryu Kan Sen (not exactly like it, it would be similar to TKD's reverse side kick (or back kick) for those who know MA, but with a sword, however that's the best example I can think of). Both of these moves are great Anti-Air techs, however the 2nd strike is slower to come out and tricky to time properly. 2nd hit is also a launcher.
Damage: 1st hit: 8% 2nd hit: 12%

^+A = This is similar to Kenshin's Ryu Shou Sen: A rising attack where she places her hand on the bottom of the blade and holds it horizontally above her head, then rises straight up, aimed at the opponent's neck. Opponents are sent downward when hit by this, setting them up for Lyn's Dair.
Damage: 11%

v+A = Lyn sticks her leg out and does a low hitting roundhouse kick at her opponents feet. It is a good footsie poke with some slide. It is a decent approach move. Pressing ><+A again at the end of the move will cause Lyn to slide toward her opponent doing a quick slash aimed at their torso. When hit by this opponents will be launched.
Damage: 1st hit: 5%, 2nd hit: 9%

Dash+A = Lyn vanishes, does a slight jump, and does 3 quick stabs aimed at her opponent's neck. You can see this move in the .gif. Not one of her best approach moves, though it can cause for some good mind games.
Damage: 3% per slash.

Smash
Note that while charging a Smash Attack Lyn takes the same exact Battoujutsu style stance for all 3 of her Smash Attacks, this makes her unpredictable and is a core feature of her character, given that Battoujutsu is built on the premise of speed and unpredictability.

[COLLAPSE="Kenshin"]
[/COLLAPSE]

><+Smash = She does a forward horizontal slash similar to Kenshin's Sou Ryu Ken. In a typical Samurai fashion, the damage has a slight (wind-like) delay effect. At the end of this attack, if timed properly (now this is tricky), you can press A again to do two more successive rapid "heavy" slashes. Pretty much video related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFIVxm6eKBA. The follow up can only be done on the charged version. The first hit has a vaccum-like effect that pulls her opponents to her, the 2nd slash is a great killing move.
Damage: 1st hit: 9-13% 2nd hit: 2%, 3rd hit: 15%

^+Smash = She does an upward slash in an arching motion. The amount of charge determines the angle of the slash. No Charge is a 50 degree angle, half and full charge is 90 degree. At 90 degrees it is one of Lyn's best KO moves. Here's a filler sprite for it:http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/images/e/e4/BBCS_Jin_Rehhyou.png
Damage: 15-24%


v+Smash = If uncharged, she simply spins in place while crouched and does a full crescent horizontal slash that covers both sides. Fully charged it's more similar to Zoro's Tatsumaki from One Piece, minus the ridiculous lasting tornado. This is the best visual representation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHHl0sC78jI. Essentially, her crowd breaker, mostly useful for multiple enemies, though it can be great during certain situations. Though her other Smash Attacks set up better.
Damage: 12-21%

Aerial Moves

Lyn's aerial game is phenomenal. She has to be very close to her opponents in the air to land her moves, however, this is where she racks up damage the most quickly. Effective use of her UpB to follow up into quick combos is what makes Lyn a lethal opponent.

Nair = Lyn does a very quick horizontal slash. This attack has almost no knockback, but instead pulls opponents toward her. Tap A again, and Lyn will cancel into a different slash. You can tap A up to six times with this move doing 6 very quick slashes. It serves a very good combo filler than can rack up damage quickly.

Damage: 2-4% per slash.

Uair = She does a horizontal spin (she turns her body horizontally while doing a 540* rotation), and does an (upward) slash by extending her arm. This is a good K.O. move but the timing has to be perfect.
Damage: 13%

Fair = Lyn does a front flip while swinging her sword vertically above her head. She spins 3x each spin causing damage and travels forward and down for a short distance, there is little knockback from this move and it serves as mostly combo filler.
Damage: 5% x3.

Bair = A Mule Kick similar to Sheik's, but with slightly more punch if she hits from up close. One of her best aerial approach options.
Damage: 6% (10% up close)

Dair = Essentially Kenshin's Ryu Tsui Sen, she faces the ground and dives towards it while pointing her blade downward, with a slight angle. You can see it in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK5-jY0jGhk at 2:45, except Kenshin does more of a slash. My idea is more like, the dive itself if the slash. The stance is the similar though. You can also see Lyn do this same exact stance in her critical hit .gif. What's unique about this move is that the animation allows for it to be used in conjuntion with her U+A, you can do her U+A right after this move. The slash of this sends her opponents upward allowing you to combo withU+A. This attack is great for set ups, however, at higher damages it hits too hard to be a proper set up move.
Damage: 10%

Throws

Lyn's throws are meant to be more defensive than set ups. Thus most of them focus on getting her opponents off of her.

Pummel = Knees opponent in the Solar plexus.
Damage: 2% per hit.

Down = She slams her opponent on the ground, mounts them in missionary possition, and stabs downward with her sword at her opponent's neck.
Damage: 10%

Up = She steps on her opponent's foot and does an upward slash as if she were slicing her opponents in two; opponents are flung upward.
Damage: 6%

Forward = She stabs her opponent in the torso and then kicks them away.
Damage: 7%

Back = She spins the opponent around, steps behind them and gets them in a choke hold placing her sword at their throat, and the slices. As they fall, she kicks them away from her with a side kick.
Damage: 7%


Taunts

1. She turns around and whispers something, while Sakura flower petals blow in the wind.

2. Draws her sword, inspects it closely, and slashed toward her side as if to "clean the blood" a small gust appears at the ground, she twirls the sword and re-sheaths it.

3. Draws her sword places it horizontally above her brow as if glaring at her opponent, says some thing about honor in Japanese and re-sheaths it

FINAL SMASH

Her critical hit in her .gif. After grabbing the Smash Orb, you must strike your opponent (like Ike's), and the opponent is then "paralyzed", she then does and upward slash with a back flip, and vanishes into thin air, only to reappear at all sides above her opponent in 5 copies and bring a maelstrom of pain down on them. The opponent is then thrown flying of the stage for a K.O.


COMBAT FOCUS:
Being a Battoujutsu/Iaijutsu user, she always has her sword sheathed when running, jumping, crouching, etc... The only times she draws it are when she attacks. That is the premise behind this fighting style.

Lyn's combat prowess is focused on Speed and Combos as previously said. Her character has an emphasis on mobility and approach, she has very quick and very good offense, with very stylized, swift sword slashes. She can string opponents into relativeley long combos in the right hands. A lot of her moves have gattling cancels, meaning she's able to flow from one move to another rather well as faster moves will cancel into slower moves allowing for quick combos.

This is where I pause to explain the difference between Lyn's sword attacks and kicking techs. Whenever Lyn does a sword based tech, she has some frame delay while she resheathes her sword. The recovery lag doesn't last long, but long enough to prevent combos. Effective use of her techs is what makes her a good fighter. To prevent this, you must cancel into other sword techs before she resheathes. You cannot cancel from sword techs to kicks or throws. This means that Lyn has to rely on gatling cancels to keep the flow going. Now while this may seem complicated at first, it's actually rather intutive, as it makes logical sense.

Also, as her focus is on quick speed and fast combos, her jumps are a bit shallow compared to Marth (I would say similar to C.Falcon, but with Fox's falling speed, Marth is too floaty for her playstyle), however her attack speed and running speed are much greater. She does more damage at closer ranges, given that her focus is all about running up and getting real close to do combos. The idea is to allow her the opportunity to do Guilty Gear style combos (think Chipp). I feel her running speed would be very similar to Fox's. Making her one of the faster characters in the game.

As I said before, she vanishes during her rolls, similar to how Slayer in GG vanishes during his dashes, this adds to her unpredictability. She has some of the fastest attack speed in the game, and the fastest running speed out of all the sword users.

Her weaknesses lie in her light stun damage in a lot of her moves, likewise her lack of long range moves, meaning she must rely on her counter to deal with those situations. Also, previously mentioned. Lyn is rather frail for a middle weight, it is the setback of her swift speed. When she's taken high damage she has a hard time setting up and following combos, meaning Lyn must be quick to earn her kill, thus making her a momentum character like Marth, but with much more risk-reward oriented.



COMMON COMBOS:

Dtilt>NeutA>2nd Hit>3rd Hit>Ftilt>2nd Hit>UpB>Nair x6>Fair>Dair>Utilt>Dair>USmash

Neut A>2nd hit>3rd hit>FSmash>Dash Cancle>DashA>Dtilt>2nd hit>DashCancel>USmash>Uair

From (A) Counter: SH>Nair x6>Fair>Side B
From (A) Counter: SH>Nair x6>Fair>FF>DownB>UpB>UAir

SH>Bair>SH>Bair>DSmash>Jump Cancel>Nair x6>Dair>Utilt>Dair>USmash


Tell me your thoughts.[/collapse]
[/collapse]



So, looking at things from a competitive standpoint. Lyn's potential as a fighter is clear and obvious (once again, tourney hotshot Mew2King agrees and supports her for Smash 4). She would be one of the fiercest characters on the roster, bringing a unique blend of moves and fighting styles that haven't been trialed on Smash ever before. A style that would not only be pleasant to look at, but also open new doors in terms of what can be seen done by characters on the game. Same way you see Falcon, Marth, Sheik, and other top tier characters do some crazy things in Melee, but with a unique Japanese flair that only makes it look THAT much cooler.


So, while you see SWORDS, I see a unique style that has yet to be tapped and brings a lot to the table. I honestly don't see other characters bringing in as much as Lyn barring Isaac and Ridley.


It's a shame the support isn't there for someone like Micaiah instead, who is another female FE lord, but she can at least bring a little more diversity by instead of cloning another sword character, cloning Zelda for a faster, speedier version.
To use your same argument against you: but we already have FOUR Magic users in Smash, we don't need more (Zelda, Ness, Lucas, and Mewtwo).

Lyn's real strengths lie not in being a girl, you can slap a penis on her and make her a man, and I'd still push for her (err him). Why? Because the fighting style is unique, an hasn't been seen in Smash before, AND it's one that brings a lot of potential in terms of competitive play. A fast and fierce character that can follow up with some mean combos. In other words, PM suddenly becomes Guilty Gear (ok, maybe not, but w/e).
 

loganhogan

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Yes, but what does she bring to the table based on moveset alone? You're saying she brings something as a female who uses swords, but that has absolutely no impact on gameplay. What is so important about having female characters? Remember the first SSB only had Samus as a female character. I don't think being female has ever been a prerequisite or an advantage.

If she's matched with her swordstyle then she potentially brings a lot, a different fighting style, but speaking clones only then Micaiah easily wins.
 
D

Deleted member

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In short, she's a fast punish character withm low defence, yet plays defensively, and has fast and fierce combos...

Now someone repost what I said somewhere where the PMBR can see it, hahahaha. If that doesn't convince someone that Lyn is a top choice for a new character, then nothing will.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Yes, but what does she bring to the table based on moveset alone? You're saying she brings something as a female who uses swords, but that has absolutely no impact on gameplay. What is so important about having female characters? Remember the first SSB only had Samus as a female character. I don't think being female has ever been a prerequisite or an advantage.
Are you saying that you don't want Lyn because she has sword and is female. Sure a sword may seem overdone, but she uses one in a unique style. Plus, are people really going to complain for having another sword user in smash bros. even when they use it in their own unique way? That actual sounds kinda idiotic. It no big deal that a few of the people use a sword in a video game, no one really cares about how an even bigger majority uses no weapon. So, why is there always people who complain about a character have a sword. Just because they have a similar type of weapon of another character doesn't rule them out.
 

Fortress

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God damn, you people go in depth. Pichu sucks, I thought that was just common knowledge.

Pichu sucks, Lyn's cool, Hector's where it's at, now let's move on and discuss something else.
 

Anti Guy

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Long post

Fair enough, I actually like that moveset. I like the idea of unpredictable charges. And all of the moves seem reasonably possible to code (although that makes her a full-fledged non-clone character to make); the counter reminds me of Lucario's aura mechanics. I'll link to your post for my blurb on Lyn on the OP

Regarding my beef with swords. It's not because they have swords, it's because generally swords are extremely powerful because of their reach; it's no coincidence that Metaknight and Marth are two of the best characters. If you keep that advantage under control though, then that's fine. And four magic characters isn't "a lot," btw (there are 7 sword users).

Are you saying that you don't want Lyn because she has sword and is female.
...what? When did I say I don't want Lyn because she's female? I said the argument that she should be in because she's female is a pointless argument and shouldn't be a major reason for why she should be in.
 

820

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God damn, you people go in depth. Pichu sucks, I thought that was just common knowledge.

Pichu sucks, Lyn's cool, Hector's where it's at, now let's move on and discuss something else.
It obviously isn't common knowledge because quite a few people want him in.
 
D

Deleted member

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God damn, you people go in depth. Pichu sucks, I thought that was just common knowledge.

Pichu sucks, Lyn's cool, Hector's where it's at, now let's move on and discuss something else.
I just like seeing unique ideas get fleshed out into good concepts over bad ideas that have little basis.

I couldn't care less about representation or any of that.

Another style I'd push for if it were possible would be Gun Kata:


Sadly there are no dual-gun users that couldbe viable for the roster. Sami is as close as it gets, but she lacks the disciplined flair to pull it off. She's more of a rougeish soldier rather than a trained martial artist. And adding such a character would be insane to program.

Inb4 bullets are cheap and wouldn't work in a fighter.







But w/e Gun Kata ain't happening, so I'm not holding my breath. At least I can push for Battoujutsu and be satisfied with that...
 
D

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Fair enough, I actually like that moveset. I like the idea of unpredictable charges. And all of the moves seem reasonably possible to code (although that makes her a full-fledged non-clone character to make); the counter reminds me of Lucario's aura mechanics. I'll link to your post for my blurb on Lyn on the OP

Regarding my beef with swords. It's not because they have swords, it's because generally swords are extremely powerful because of their reach; it's no coincidence that Metaknight and Marth are two of the best characters. If you keep that advantage under control though, then that's fine. And four magic characters isn't "a lot," btw (there are 7 sword users).



...what? When did I say I don't want Lyn because she's female? I said the argument that she should be in because she's female is a pointless argument and shouldn't be a major reason for why she should be in.

5 diffrent styles though ;). 7 Sword users out of a roster that has 41 characters, and could potentially have 46. With Isaac and Lyn, that's 9/46, 20%. Guilty Gear has that same percentile with 6/27 (technically GG has a higher percentily, but w/e), Blazblue has 7/26, making it more than 25%. And both of those are universally praised for their diversity. So once again, it's a non-issue.

As for the reach, it all depends. The reach mostly depends on the hitboxes, WFT in Smash 4 has NO SWORD yet has this mean reach, same can be said for Snake with his disjointed hitboxes in Brawl.
 

the_suicide_fox

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If the PMBR works on a character for 700 hours, and spends 8 hours a day (full work day) you are looking at 88 days. So to make a new character takes about 3 months. If Roy was only 300 that's still 6-7 weeks worth of work.

TBH, I don't think we will see many new/clones, so I would rather totally new characters over Pichu. I honestly wouldn't have even wasted time with Roy. Mewtwo was a good choice. But yea, new characters please!
 

Solbliminal

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I think people may be misunderstanding what people who are Sonic "haters" are trying to say. I don't know about anyone else, I can only speak for myself when I say this, but if you agree like this post.. I don't HATE Sonic or any characters in Sonic. I wouldn't mind if they added a character from a sonic game. I'm simply looking at it from the position of (1) how many 3rd party characters should be acceptable, and (2) how many 3rd parties from the same franchise should be acceptable.

For my first point, If we're talking about NINTENDO making a game, I would love them to add maybe another 2-3 third party characters (from different franchises). Project M however can only pick from characters represented in Brawl in some way already, so that isn't even an option, and we don't have to go into any deeper discussion for this.

As for my second point, yes characters like Shadow and Knuckles are in Brawl in some way.. But lets go back to if Nintendo was making the game. I think it would be unfair to other 3rd parties (Snake) if Sonic got another rep but Metal Gear didn't. I feel like the game should have an equal distribution of 3rd party reps. We cant start putting in more and more reps from a particular franchise.. its not Nintendo vs Sonic. So in the end I think if the PMBR has a choice between lets say (these are random pics, not all my top pics) - Sukapon, Dark Samus, Little Mac, Lyn and Isaak OR Shadow, taking the place of any of those 1st party spaces, I don't think Shadow should be considered.

I know Sonic lovers will probably still disagree, but that's just how I see it. Again, if Shadow was put in I wouldn't complain, cause all additions will be cool, but I think there are more important first parties that should be considered.

Don't think for a moment I lumped you in with what I consider "haters". You would have to be blind not to notice the ones in this thread though. The most obvious example is anytime a label such as "furry" is used as a negative point in a discussion. People are under the assumption that liking anthromorphic VIDEOGAME characters makes you an instant furry. The fact anyone uses the term negatively is sick because it is just discrimination. That aside, I'll make my point clear to you:

1). "...if this were Nintendo" - P:M is NOT Nintendo. They are a mod group dedicated to making Brawl play like a newer Melee. Their goals are far from the same as Nintendo's intentions, as proven by the fact Sakurai tried to make Brawl anti-competitive. P:M is doing just the opposite of that. If anything, the only decision P:M did that Sakurai would have done is adding Mewtwo and Roy. Sakurai never gave the fans a list of characters to choose from or discussed balance of characters with them. Just because P:M is making professional decisions it does not mean they are making ones that Nintendo, or for that matter Sakurai, would.

2). "...I feel like the game should.." - That statement, before even reaching its point, fell through. Going from "..if it were Nintendo.." to "..I feel.." shows that it is a personal desire of what should be done in your supposed vision of Nintendo, which is inaccurate to begin with. Nintendo / Sakurai has over rep'ed a single series over another many times. Mario and Pokemon have more reps than the entirety of the cast. Yet people are willing to argue that Pichu or Toad deserves a slot over anyone else. If we were going by your logic, then each and every series would need equal representation. It would only be "fair".

3). Third Party - The ONLY reason this topic even exists is because of the fact P:M hasn't clarified if in game third party reps are eligible since two of their rules intersect. People have been using this to quickly slay the support for any possible Sonic (or Metal Gear) characters. If Simon Belmont and Geno were options, no one would be holding back a vote. Which by your logic, Konami would have 2 reps. Unfair to Sega. Mario gets another Rep. Unfair for everyone else. Do you see where your logic falls to pieces? Fair isn't really going to happen. Someone is always going to be unhappy. If Shadow doesn't make it, boo hoo to me and all of the Sonic character / Shadow supporters. But I will not sit here and be told my choice of character is any less than half the other suggestions made. That is the point I was stressing to begin with. No one can say "this character doesn't deserve..." if SOMEBODY likes them. This is why even if characters like Pichu, Toad, another Rep for a series we already have too much of, or even Sandbag make it in, I won't be disappointed because I know somebody likes that character. Even if it isn't me.

4). Why on Earth is everyone being greedy goblins over even 1 of 5 slots? "Reserved for Nintendo, kthxbai". Unless Smash 4 has any objections, Issac is pretty much guaranteed. Ridley is a maybe. Dixie, Lyn, Andy/Sami, and Dark Samus are up in the air. Is it really going to kill anyone to spare a single slot? I'm not saying "give Shadow or another Sonic character a slot", but I am saying you all could be a bit more open minded about character selection. This, again, is a mod. We don't have to be a bunch of Nintendo Nazis about this. The worst that can happen is that P:M wont make the character and give the slot to the character following it. Simple as that really. Does anyone agree with me at all?
 

MagnesD3

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In regards to Lyn, the thing is if the team wants to add another "woman" (note I said woman, not female) newcomer, their choices are scant.

Dixie Kong is technically female, and a great choice for one of the newcomers, however, she is a monkey (though I do think she should be one of the characters that should be selected).

Krystal is more of a "woman" than Dixie Kong, but scantily clad furries disgust or disturb a lot of people, not to mention the character itself is very divisive, and from polls I have done, there is actually less support for a fourth Star Fox than their is for a fourth Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, or even Kirby character. That the series even has three characters despite most of his praise coming from basically one game (Star Fox 64), shows that sometimes personal bias may be at play for Sakurai's roster decisions (see also FE getting two slots in Melee).

Then you have Toon Zelda, who is actually planned for Brawl, but there is very little support for her, and most people are not keen on "alter ego" clones aside from maybe Toon Link, but even there there is a lot of people who whine about him.

Micaiah is a possible Zelda clone, though has much less support than Lyn.

Palutena would be a great woman newcomer to choose, but there is three things going against her:
1. She is probably going to end up playable in Smash 4.
2. She would require A LOT of work considering she uses a weapon unlike any other in the series, and she would probably need some unique projectiles to stay true to her.
3. Rather weak demand to be in Project M.

Sami would be another good woman newcomer choice (easy Snake clone and represents the long-running Famicom/Advance Wars franchise), but she is basically unknown to many Nintendo fans of today's age, so she could be a risk. Still think she would be a great choice, but I am not optimistic on her happening.

Another choice could be Lip I guess. But she is even more obscure than Sami, and unlike Sami would have to be a non-clone (though Lip's flower baton is already in the game).

If the Project M team wants a woman newcomer, I think Lyn is going to be who they go with just looking at what they have on their table.

I definitely do think though that we should get two new series represented with the five newcomer choices. Golden Sun is obvious (Isaac). However, you also have the long running series of Advance Wars and Panel de Pon. Between Sami and Lip, Sami might be the better choice (much more feasible due to Sami being an easy possible clone for Snake), and Lip's design is probably going to be a turn off for some (personally, I would not mind Lip so long as they black out the area under her dress, I don't want loli upskirts in Smash Bros.).
Speaking only on krystal, she is more popular than dixie according to our poll here at smashboards (that has been shown in alot of places) so she is pretty darn popular but... very unpopular as well :S
 

Fortress

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Am I the only one who would be stoked if Mewtwo, Roy, and the remainder of the Brawl/Melee cast were the final characters to be put into the game? I think I could live with that.
 

MagnesD3

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Am I the only one who would be stoked if Mewtwo, Roy, and the remainder of the Brawl/Melee cast were the final characters to be put into the game? I think I could live with that.
Of course that would be fine but the PMBR has the chance to do something amazing here and that's create their own characters from scratch...
 

Solbliminal

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Speaking only on krystal, she is more popular than dixie according to our poll here at smashboards (that has been shown in alot of places) so she is pretty darn popular but... very unpopular as well :S
Welcome to my world.
 

Chzrm3

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I like how you say 300 as if that wasn't already A LOT of time... Roy might have new moves, but his intended design remains unchanged. Pichu's intended design is to be purposely bad.
That's okay, though - there are things that were an intentional, conscious design choice in Brawl (like tripping) that the PMBR removed. There are even things from Melee (like the 1-frame invincibility on shines) that the PMBR removed. I think their guiding design philosophy is that if it holds the game back from being as great as possible, they'll change it. Applying this to Pichu, if there were people that really loved Pichu in the PMBR and wanted him to return, I think they'd embrace his 'self-damaging' playstyle, and leave his 'intentionally bad' aspect behind. You still have the essence of the character intact, but you've removed the toxic element that caused so many people to hate him in the first place.

In understand your context, but I still feel it's a terrible idea and a waste of time. There are other clones that could be added in that would take about as much effort and have a better payoff. Thinking of strictly clones, or clone-likes. Sami, Dark Samus, and Bowser Jr. come to mind. Actually, Jr. would probably be the best "clone" to add to the roster and a much better glass cannon than Pichu could ever be.
I actually really like the ideas of Dark Samus and Baby Bowser. It'd be kind of fitting for Dark Samus to be hurting herself, actually.... hmm!

I see. That's your opinion and I respect it, but do you really think Dixie would be the first reveal for PM when she's got such a good shot at getting in?

I'd say that she'd be one of the final reveals if anything. Well after Smash 4's roster has been confirmed.

That's a good point! It might make more sense to start with characters that will probably never get into Smash 4.

In fact, I know of one such character... : )

(just kidding, please don't hate me forever!!!)

Basing it off that metric, hmm. It's really tough to tell with Sakurai - it seems like he's never going to add Ridley, so that might be a safe choice that's both really popular and unlikely to get into the next Smash. But he could be trolling everyone, and Ridley ends up as a secret character in Smash 4.

I think at some point, the PMBR wouldn't worry too much. It'd be dangerous for them to work on Megaman and Animal Crosser right now, and publicly tout that they were going to be playable in PM before Smash 4 even comes out. But timing wise, we probably won't see any brand-new characters added to PM until Smash 4 has already come out, anyway. So even if they did work on Ridley, and then Ridley appears in Smash 4, it might be okay for them to release him six months/a year after Smash 4's already been out.

Then again, I have no idea. The whole legality of a fan project based on a game that you're not even supposed to be tampering with is pretty tenuous stuff.

Anyway, I guess Lyn would probably be one of the safest possible picks. I can't really see Smash 4 adding Lyn.

So Lyn's a super safe pick, and Ridley's an awesome, kind of safe pick.

I think!
 

B.W.

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Yeah but Paper Mario.

I made a thing: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o0RkzS3B1R_P9p2dTgLabkRKG9qzeKDYwMcudEUigPA/edit?usp=sharing

Linking you to google drive because Smashboards hates when I make long posts that are organized.

Articles for characters as moves aren't an issue if you choose an article heavy character (G&W I think works for this but I don't know). PMBR are wizards, I'm convinced they could make anything work at this point.

I was going to make it pretty with pictures, but I got lazy.
 

ChronoBound

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Basing it off that metric, hmm. It's really tough to tell with Sakurai - it seems like he's never going to add Ridley, so that might be a safe choice that's both really popular and unlikely to get into the next Smash. But he could be trolling everyone, and Ridley ends up as a secret character in Smash 4.
Sakurai is clearly hinting Ridley is a stage hazard. Its just a matter of whether he is trolling or not. I personally don't think he is.

As I said before, Ridley should be to Project M as Sonic was to Brawl, as the last minute hypeoverdrive fuel.

As for characters for Project M that probably won't be in Brawl, aside from Ridley, there is Lyn (as you mentioned), Isaac, and Sami. Isaac could plausibly end up in Smash 4 though the deck is stacked against him.

Regardless of which DK character they choose (Dixie Kong or K. Rool), both have good chances of being playable in Smash 4, however, between the two, Dixie Kong would be easier to add, and she was actually supposed to be in Brawl to begin with.

However, Ridley, Lyn, Isaac, and Sami are basically "safe" choices (in terms of not ending up playable in Smash 4).
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I really agree with Manly's statement on Lyn's playstyle and character: Lyn just seems like a nice poster woman for PMBR's gameplay direction due what kind of a fighter she'd be like. Much like what I said about Sukapon before.
 

Chzrm3

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However, Ridley, Lyn, Isaac, and Sami are basically "safe" choices (in terms of not ending up playable in Smash 4).

Yeah, I guess advanced wars and golden sun are kind of wild cards. They could appear if Sakurai feels in it, like Earthbound/ROB getting repped, or they could get ignored again.

Let's say Isaac did get into Smash 4, tho, and the PM team had been working on him as well. Do you think it'd be a big problem if they released him, like, a year after Smash 4 came out? From a legality standpoint, I mean.
 

Anti Guy

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Update: Here's a tally of all the votes so far, since most of the voting seems to have subsided. There may be an error or two from human error, but it should be mostly accurate.

I'm only including characters that received at least 10 votes.

Total voters: 59

Format: Name: Total score (Full votes, Half votes, Anti votes)
Clones are italicized

Isaac: 39.5 (36, 9 ,1)
Ridley: 32.5 (32, 9, 4)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 17 (19, 8, 6)
Dixie: 15.5 (16, 11, 6)
Lyn: 15 (19, 6, 7)
Sami: 13.5 (13, 5, 2)
Saki: 11.5 (10, 9, 1)
Bowser Jr: 11.5 (12, 7, 4)
Skapon: 10 (11, 8, 5)
King K Rool: 8.5 (5, 13, 3)
Dark Samus: 7.5 (13, 11, 11)
Samurai Goroh: 4.5 (4, 9, 4)
Andy: 4.5 (2, 7, 1)
Paper Mario: 2.5 (6, 9, 8)
Toad: -0.5 (4, 7, 8)
Krystal: -3 (5, 6, 11)
Tetra: -3 (5, 0, 8)
Hector: -4.5 (2, 1, 7)
Toon Zelda: -6.5 (3, 0, 8)
Pichu: -6.5 (8, 9, 19)
Waluigi: -9.5 (4, 9, 18)
Tails: -11 (6, 6, 20)
Knuckles: -15.5 (4, 1, 20)
Shadow: -25.5 (2, 1, 28)

Feel free to interpret it however you like, but I think it's safe to say all the characters colored green (score of at least 10, and more than twice as many full votes as anti votes) are popular choices, while the red ones (negative score, more than twice as many anti votes as full votes) should not make it in due to being generally unpopular. I think this is something that people in the minority camps of both groups should be able to understand and acknowledge. The only one I'd give an asterisk to is Ganondorf / Black Shadow, as it'd be nice for Ganondorf mains to have a louder say on that.
 

EdgeTheLucas

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I guess that, for now, we shouldn't really discuss new characters for PM aside from the remaining five. The possibility that any (or maybe just most) of our picks might end up in Smash 4 makes it too risky to get them to start working on them. I hope I'm not alone when I say that, as much fun as we're having discussing possible new characters, that we should all wait until after Smash 4 is released to talk about all this.
 

Chzrm3

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Isaac: 39.5 (36, 9 ,1)
Ridley: 32.5 (32, 9, 4)
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: 17 (19, 8, 6)
Dixie: 15.5 (16, 11, 6)

Yeah, Dixie in 4th place! Unce unce unce.

I'm kind of shocked that Ridley didn't get first! Even though this is a small sample size, I figured he'd outshine everyone.

Also LOL at all the Sonic characters being on the bottom. Even lower than the hate magnets of Pichu and Waluigi. Poor Tails!
 

Anti Guy

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I guess that, for now, we shouldn't really discuss new characters for PM aside from the remaining five. The possibility that any (or maybe just most) of our picks might end up in Smash 4 makes it too risky to get them to start working on them. I hope I'm not alone when I say that, as much fun as we're having discussing possible new characters, that we should all wait until after Smash 4 is released to talk about all this.

Of the green ones... I'd say their chances of making it into SSB4 are as follows (from highest to lowest)

Decent chance:
Dixie
Saki
Isaac

Okay chance:
Bowser Jr
Ridley

Low chance:
Skapon
Lyn
Black Shadow

No chance:
Sami
 

EdgeTheLucas

Smash Lord
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Oct 2, 2013
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Update: Here's a tally of all the votes so far, since most of the voting seems to have subsided. There may be an error or two from human error, but it should be mostly accurate.
Regarding my last post, it still makes me sad that Toad barely makes the red zone :(

Oh well. Now the PMBR has something to look at if they really plan on implementing another character this early.
 

trojanpooh

Smash Lord
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Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,183
If the PMBR works on a character for 700 hours, and spends 8 hours a day (full work day) you are looking at 88 days. So to make a new character takes about 3 months. If Roy was only 300 that's still 6-7 weeks worth of work.

TBH, I don't think we will see many new/clones, so I would rather totally new characters over Pichu. I honestly wouldn't have even wasted time with Roy. Mewtwo was a good choice. But yea, new characters please!

I think you and most of the other people on this thread are looking at it the wrong way. Mewtwo took over 700 hours and Roy took over 300 hours because he's a clone. These are 2 existing characters, they were able to port data over from Melee or at the very least look at it when creating them. This was bound to be a huge time saver. Any brand new character, clone or otherwise, is almost guaranteed to take well over the time Mewtwo did because all the balancing and design has to be done from scratch. For that reason I expect most, if not all, of the new characters (if we even get any more, nobody said they'd use up all 7 slots for sure) will be clones of old characters.
 

Anti Guy

Couch Tomato
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Two things I forgot to bring up:

1) Clones (trojanpoof beat me to it) - It's unfortunate that only two of the ones in green are only clones. I've edited the post to italicize all the clone characters. I would expect at least a few of the remaining slots to be clones, and maybe only a couple of them unique characters... So maybe we won't even get five. Either that or we'll just wait a long time for the remaining ones, if at all. Speaking of clones and workload. Of those listed, Saki seems the most difficult to do, and may even be impossible given his fighting style. The next hardest to do, I'd think, would be Isaac (gasp) if you want to incorporate Psynergy...

2) Dark Samus - A lot of negative votes for Dark Samus were because of Ridley. If Ridley was deconfirmed as being an option, then Dark Samus' stock would rise dramatically.
 
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