Cincinnati House Tournament - Tyr vs. Overswarm and Tactical

[Tyr_03]

Overswarm is my first real experience against Metaknight. He completely destroyed me. Tactical is the most experience Lucario player that I've been up against but I made a lot of dumb mistakes against him. I did better in friendlies against him. For those interested I got 4th using only Lucas. I plan to beat Overswarm the next time I see him.

Ignore the random ambient noise.

VS. Tactical (Lucario) Semi finals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnRniNS076o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pOrch7w8Qc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIs4kpr11tw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kctkODyB1b0&feature=related

VS. Overswarm (Metaknight/ROB) Losers Finals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3C1m2F71Zg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfsz71U5MMg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4igKSy6_UY&feature=related

MM VS. Overswarm (Metaknight)
Overswarm challenged me to a money match with 2 to 1 odds in his favor if it was all on Brinstar my favorite stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSRu7VFdRk8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU2C3a-IASU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJP0EDxd64A&feature=related


Things I learned from this tournament:

-PK Freeze is generally never a good edgeguarding option unless the opponent has a predictable recovery, preferably with bad jumps such as Marth or DK. I made a point of testing this and it failed me in most instances against characters such as Lucario, ROB and MK.
-Fair is too punishable to be used falling into the ground. Uair is similarly punishable but is useful for countering some attacks while falling into the ground.
-Generally Nair is the safest aerial counter move even if it is not autocancelled.
-Avoid recovering from above the stage unless it's with magnet pulling. Using Fairs, Dairs and PK Fire to keep opponents off you and then using PKT2 to sweetspot or lag cancel is safest.
- Dair does not counter the tornado well. I'm told Nair works better. I need to try it. PK Fire, Dash attack, Dsmash, Usmash, PK Thunder are all good choices to counter the tornado.
-Dair when spaced correctly very adequately counters shuttleloop. Works best while dropping, less often works while moving upward.
-MK is easily shield poked by Ftilt, Nairs and even Usmash. Look for low shield.
-MK always follows glide attack with Dsmash when shielded. Fsmash is followed by Dsmash as well. Keep shield up.
-Dsmash beats backward shuttleloops on MK's recovery.
-Brinstar is not the most effective counterpick against Metaknight. It does moderately well but Yoshi's Island (Melee) may be better. I'm going to work on that stage next.
-Dsmash is good against overly aggressive MK
-Learn to read and punish Lucario's rolls (what was I thinking? pressure johns)
-Avoid letting Dair get so stale.
-Don't land with airdodges near an opponent. Stall with Psimagnet or look for an edge instead. Fastfalling at different times can help too.

Specific things to work on:

-Not screwing up thundersliding
-Using Dair less to keep it from getting stale
-Reading Dair hits better for Dsmash if they get hit into the air
-Recovering with PKT2 (I think I've gotten worse)
-PK Fire spacing

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

i was just about to comment on how much you land near opponents with airdodges. i just try not to land near opponents at all. then again... it's MK >_>.
you dair like... alot
i didn't really see all that much nair in comparison to dair.
the ratio had to be like 5:1 or somewhere close to that.
you shouldn't have lost to OS in the losers finals judging from the videos.
1st round you just lost.
second round you gave up a lead. third round you gave up a lead.
why'd you CP corneria anyway?
you didn't magnet ANY lasers.
my way of doing it is... if you expect a laser just magnet. they can't do anything else anyway. what harm will it do if they don't laser?
second match i think you started to learn not just overswarm's mk, but mk as a whole.
i saw you begin to punish shuttle opp to glide attack with properly spaced dsmashes, but no usmash =[
i only watched one tactical match. he rolls... ALOT
like really it's alot
i know lucario has a good roll, but he like rolls to move... learn his rolls and you got him beat.
other than that he's a good lucario, but the amount of rolling is just ridiculous.
also i feel like you should always pkt edge guard MK. you'll never really get anywhere with pk freeze (idk wtf happened second match. EPIC kill btw) they'll just airdodge and still have they're jumps. the tail is too important in PKT edgeguarding. i pretty much took what i learned in my short time learning how to tailwhip with ness (too good) and applied it to lucas' pkt. you pretty much covered everything in your summary of what you learned.

Edit: how's pirate ship against mk? oh and you thunderslide too much.

 

[Chuee]

oh and you thunderslide too much.

Ya that meta just ***** him when he did thunderslide.

 

[Iwan]

Just curious...what would be the purpose of not using dair a lot (as you did in the videos)? It has great priority, or more importantly a huge hit box. It's usually a pretty safe approach....would the purpose be to keep your dair's spike strong?

Just curious as to why keeping dair fresh is important, because I actually prefer spiking with bair (I know, weird. lol).

Nice lucas though

EDIT**.....Pink Fresh, have you played Sin? He's a good lucario player in our area, but he rolls A LOT too hahaha. Seems like lucario players roll a lot in general :/

 

[Tyr_03]

You want Dair to be fresh so that it knocks them to the ground for a Fsmash at earlier percentages.

I kept messing up my thundersliding for some reason. Normally I'm much safer with it. And Overswarm panics a lot less when I use it than other people in general.

I picked Corneria because it's a bad stage for Metaknight. I wasn't expecting him to switch to ROB. And yea I definetly should have had him that round. He mindgamed me into losing my last stock. Trying to magnet the lasers is a great way to let ROB gimp you. He has too much aerial control.



I am going to beat Overswarm next time and I am going to get it on tape. He beat an entire crew by himself that night. He's easily one of the best players in the midwest region. But I'm going to find a way to beat Metaknight with Lucas.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Hmmm, Dair isn't really good to follow up with fsmash because fsmash is pretty slow compared to the other choices that lucas has. Most players expect a fsmash from a dairing lucas and even if it connects, it shouldn't be used at low percents since it's one of your only reliable kill moves...

 

[Iwan]

Hmmm, Dair isn't really good to follow up with fsmash because fsmash is pretty slow compared to the other choices that lucas has. Most players expect a fsmash from a dairing lucas and even if it connects, it shouldn't be used at low percents since it's one of your only reliable kill moves...

After watching the videos, I'm fairly certain that if dair is fresh enough you can do Dair>>>Fsmash without being punished. I saw it several times in those videos and it looked like it was fairly safe.

And if it's safe against metaknight, it's safe against every character in this game (probably).

 

[Tyr_03]

Fsmash after Dair is always safe after the percentage at which the character falls to the ground on the 4th hit. This is around the 80's or 90's depending on the character and how stale Dair is. Dair can also cause the opponent to trip in which case Fsmash is always safe.

However, under the percentage at which the opponent falls to the ground on the 4th hit, Fsmash is not unpunishable. A small percentage below when the opponent would be hit to the ground, the hitstun is high enough that you can still pull off a Fsmash. Also the first few times you play opponents, they will often not shield immediately after your Dair and you can catch them offguard with Fsmash.

However, at most percentages under the 80's or 90's depending on the character, your options are limited to jabs and SH Nair for greatest effect. Characters with fast counter attacks such as ROB or MK's Dsmashes you will need to jab until high percentages while characters with only slower attacks that hit both sides of them you will be able to SH Nair to shield poke leaving them no options once you've actually hit with a Dair. Occasionally you can do additional full hop Dairs to rack up lots of damage. Unlike Nair, these can be shielded but are less susceptible to fast counter type moves and rack up considerably more damage than a jab combo.

Generally, if it is possible to get a Fsmash in, even if it won't kill, it will do better damage than any other option and most often lead to edgeguarding opportunities. Also it is very unlikely that your Fsmash is going to get stale because you're going to be using lots of other moves inbetween Fsmashes which will refresh it.

 

[lil cj]

Great matches Tyr
I like the use of Thunderslide
MK is killer to Lucas....it no way to beat him with Lucas
I fought a good MK one time and managed to get him on his last stock
but he kept down smashing and edge guarding and ended up winning
I will add your vids to the vid compendium
Do you know when the next Cincinnati tourny is?
I live about 2 hrs from there...i can probably make the next one.

 

[Tyr_03]

^^^
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169153

We don't always have good enough attendance for tournaments so we do smashfests a lot. You should definetly come though. Overswarm, Sliq and Kel come pretty often. Overswarm runs his own smashfests sometimes as well. Q comes down from Columbus sometimes as well and is the best Toon Link player I've ever seen. Check the thread whenever Dr. X updates it for whenever the next one is.

 

[prOAPC]

that was nothing special, was good, but looked like and average one.
you dair a lot, it was staled like the complete match, making harder to fsmash after it. I like dair to nair, what i use is nair to dair, i'm going to try nair to dair to nair, lol.
PKT is always better for edge guarding than PKFr
lucas' jab stops lucario's jab cance to side B
i didn't like your use of PK fire, a few times you SH PK Fire, Lucario rolled, and then he was behind you. With retreated PK Fires or wavebouncing will help your playstyle.
Now i'm going to match the matched vs OS. But first, did you make OS change what he thinks about Lucas? (OS is from SBR, right?)

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

I don't think dair is as reasonable an approach as people make it out to be. The Lucario player could have wait and intercepted with a Fair and "combo'd" into his nair, etc. It happens a couple of times in the videos but he never caught on. Against a Meta's shuttle loop, Dair is wonderful, yes. That's Lucas' best answer to that. But dairing to fsmash is not safe at lower percentages. Hitstun is not enough, and anybody can just shield. What I've tried to implement is dair/nair to small dash to pivot grab. That may work and is great for mixing things up. All in all, I'd have to say I admired your Lucas. And since you were able to recognize all the things you're doing wrong I'm sure you'll achieve your goals.

 

[Tyr_03]

APC, until you play a Metaknight who has a clue what he's doing, I wouldn't call my Lucas nothing special. You're playing in a very sheltered area.

And I doubt Overswarm will change any opinion until I can beat him consistently.

The problem that Dair has is that if the opponent finds a move that can outrange it, you've suddenly lost your safest approach. Tactical started to learn that he could Uair or Usmash through it and because Lucas is so limited in approach options it presents a huge problem, especially against a character with a better projectile than Lucas has. Mostly, Tactical adjusted faster than I did in those matches and exploited my bad habits. I probably need to work on more grounded approaches in general. As I said, I have little experience against these characters so far. This should be good for me.

 

[ToxiCrow]

I don't think dair is as reasonable an approach as people make it out to be.

i kinda agree with this statement. i think all of us no by now that shorthop dair isnt too great because of the lag; full hop dair is good tho.
by hey Tyr, i've gotta congradulate you for using lucas against MK. i would've switched to someone else. and it was vs Overswarm, not some random kid that beat u. so good job.

in my experience vs MK on Yoshi's Island, i find that the platform is a HUGE advantage for him. ur better off on the ground then that middle platform.
i was fighting an MK player on that stage once, and i won the match as soon as i realized that the platform helps him out.

 

[prOAPC]

most things you learned, i knew it before. MK can also SH dair after a glide toss if shielded, instead of dsmash, that way he save the dsmash for the kill.
when i'm above the opponent high in the air, a like to move around with Psi manget, in both direction, the opponent will have a hard timepredicting where you are going to land.
i'd say "more jabs, more ftilts", but you play a more aired Lucas, is just your game style. And you like to use dair, learn that double jump double/triple dair i posted in other thread (Irsic, my replays! )
in my video thread you said that i used fsmash to rack up damage, that i must save it only for kill, but seeing these videos, you use fsmash more than i do >_> after dair, you used nair or fsmash (more fsmash), and OS had really low %. Use ftilt instead.
OS has a defensive style with MK, that's annoying :S
stay in the ground vs MK, looks like you need more experience vs MK
in conclusion, i'm really sad about your performance, you have a really good looks, but it could be better
EDIT: my mistake, i wanted to say "that LUCARIO was nothing special, was good, but looked like and average one." I said before i liked your Lucas a lot, sorry

 

[Noraa]

Well tyr i guess now you see how dominating MK is ..... sad isnt it.
You can only get better with practice trust me.

 

[prOAPC]

read my post in the previous page

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

that was nothing special, was good, but looked like and average one.
you dair a lot, it was staled like the complete match, making harder to fsmash after it. I like dair to nair, what i use is nair to dair, i'm going to try nair to dair to nair, lol.
PKT is always better for edge guarding than PKFr
lucas' jab stops lucario's jab cance to side B
i didn't like your use of PK fire, a few times you SH PK Fire, Lucario rolled, and then he was behind you. With retreated PK Fires or wavebouncing will help your playstyle.
Now i'm going to match the matched vs OS. But first, did you make OS change what he thinks about Lucas? (OS is from SBR, right?)

???
wait... what?
that was actually a pretty good performance by his lucas. it looked average because the player he was playing:
1) used a character that limits him in the amount of things he can do.
2) one of the better players in his region

he was unable to notice tactical's style and adapt quickly enough. plus he was trying out stuff. pk freeze edguarding lucario? pfffttt. i'm sure he was just playing for experience. experience that could help us grow as a community, and we could share, discuss, analyze, and wwhatever else we need to do to better ourselves. sorry i just don't like when people call other peoples performance(s) "average" and they don't know what it's like themselves.
ehhh sorry about that.


sigh... and now i feel stupid lol. i had read the next post and i feel like an idiot.
sorry APC

 

[Tyr_03]

@APC: There's no reason to save Fsmash after a Dair combo because it's not going to get stale and a free Fsmash is better than a free Ftilt.

Obviously I could be better because I didn't win. You haven't ever played anyone that anyone cares about in tournament and the one big tournament you did well on had items and ****. You say you know Roy_R but I've never seen a video of you playing against him and I have a feeling I might be "really sad about your performance" if I did. I have never seen a video of you playing anyone who looks like they have a clue what they're doing. The Marth player you played against can't even grab release you multiple times into a Dsmash. Your tier list in your group has Lucas on top with MK in 4th. Anyone in there right mind knows that MK dominates this game and Lucas belongs in mid tier at best. This only shows that you have little experience against competent players. There is little doubt in my mind that Overswarm would have handled you with ease. He is a better player than I and I have no doubt better than you as well. Either learn the art of constructive criticism or have something to back your opinions up with. Come to America. Get your *** kicked.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

oh noooo flames are everywhere i'm going to get burned! ahhhhhhh =[


on a more serious note, we may need a thread dedicated to only playing MK/G&W/Marth.
maybe we could find holes or something we could do to beat them. i think marth is easier than MK. though that grab release --> dsmash is a B****. other than that and his fair, DB, DS OoS, and dtilt, he's not that difficult.

*realizes that marth games revolves around those moves, thinks about what he said for a second....*

i f*****g hate marth. i seem to find G&W easier than all of the above, but that's just me.

 

[ToxiCrow]

seem to find G&W easier, than all of the above, but that's just me.

good to see i'm not the only one
and flames suck :/ can we all be friends again?

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Just curious...what would be the purpose of not using dair a lot (as you did in the videos)? It has great priority, or more importantly a huge hit box. It's usually a pretty safe approach....would the purpose be to keep your dair's spike strong?

Just curious as to why keeping dair fresh is important, because I actually prefer spiking with bair (I know, weird. lol).

Nice lucas though

EDIT**.....Pink Fresh, have you played Sin? He's a good lucario player in our area, but he rolls A LOT too hahaha. Seems like lucario players roll a lot in general :/

funny you should mention him. the last (and only) tournament i went to he just kept asking to mm me. he was pretty confident in his ability to win, but... he never got around to mming me. it was funny, because i had a match against a lucario that was of similar skill level as him (i think) and i was three stocking the lucario and he looked at the screen, paused, looked at me, said "what he's winning?", and then those same dreadful words came... "have you played Okin's lucas?"

sigh... i need to be more known. i'm tired of being in his shadow.

 

[Chuee]

@APC: There's no reason to save Fsmash after a Dair combo because it's not going to get stale and a free Fsmash is better than a free Ftilt.

Obviously I could be better because I didn't win. You haven't ever played anyone that anyone cares about in tournament and the one big tournament you did well on had items and ****. You say you know Roy_R but I've never seen a video of you playing against him and I have a feeling I might be "really sad about your performance" if I did. I have never seen a video of you playing anyone who looks like they have a clue what they're doing. The Marth player you played against can't even grab release you multiple times into a Dsmash. Your tier list in your group has Lucas on top with MK in 4th. Anyone in there right mind knows that MK dominates this game and Lucas belongs in mid tier at best. This only shows that you have little experience against competent players. There is little doubt in my mind that Overswarm would have handled you with ease. He is a better player than I and I have no doubt better than you as well. Either learn the art of constructive criticism or have something to back your opinions up with. Come to America. Get your *** kicked.

*facepalm*
Can we all just stop fighting and get along?

 

[ZMan]

*pees on flames* there we go.

Tyr- I only watched the first match v. Tactical (your mom is whack lol) and v. OS's ROB. I think you just need to be more patient and get better at predicting your oppent more. I'll post something smart when I feel like it.

 

[lil cj]

on a more serious note, we may need a thread dedicated to only playing MK/G&W/Marth.
maybe we could find holes or something we could do to beat them.

Thats a good idea
those are Lucas' worst three match ups
Marth I think is the easiest to beat out of the three, if you play agressively and space right with PK fire
But G&W and MK are another story there is no beating them at all
they completely shut down Lucas

 

[ZMan]

I think DK is harder than all three. Then again the only DK player in NM kicks my *** all the time.

 

[prOAPC]

geez calm down >_>
i don't live in USA, our smash community is not as big as yours but that doesn't mean we are bad, i'm sure that if we could have the opportunity and travel to those big tournies, we'd place well. Roy is my friend, he's from Colombia, he learned to play smash here, before he lives in USA, i don't have any fight vs him, because we haven't played, his last visit was in June, but he couldn't travel to Bogota and play, i think his next visit would be next year. He did play in Barranquilla, and there wasn't a huge different in level. But why do i have to fight Roy? He's not the only good player here, K1000o, Snes (Roy's crew), Gato and Silver (he beat Roy in melee), each one leader of his crew, are amazing player, and they have something that i don't, experience, and still i do well angaist them. They are not well-know because they don't have an account in this boards nor play in USA's big tournies. The same would happen to Roy if he wouldn't live there, but that wouldn't mean he's not an exellent player. Go and ask Roy yourself if i'm saying something wrong.
About our "tier list", it's just for fun, we count how many times each character has won our weekly friendlies tournament, Lucas is placed good because i have played Lucas since the japanese version came out, in those days, we all think that MK sucked, it was until the first official tier list whn players started to use MK, and we all realised that MK kicks ***. MK is placed 4th in our list, but with only 2 months of play, Lucas is 2, after 11 months, you do the math.
The figths i upload are vs sucky people, i know, but are only to show some fancy kills/stuff or just to test some Lucas moves. I invite you to stay tune to my profile, to the Favorites section, and watch the new fights Silver is uploading, and then tell me if they know what are they doing or not. I would put in my favorites only my fights, but you can watch the others ones, versus other people.
Sorry if i offend you, i didn't want to.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

oh gosh i sooo forgot about DK, he crossed my mind but... i don't think he's THAT hard as our matchup discussion makes it out ot be.
i play a good DK all the time (DK SmAsH) and though he tends to beat me, the matchup isn't that lobsided. once you get matchup experience against DK he becomes alot easier to punish (still his ftilting, dtilting, and bair is ridiculous for spcaing purposes)
now that i think about it...
lucas sucks lol.
i always would say he's pretty good, but i think he's barely hitting mid tier.

 

[prOAPC]

for me, a spammy Toon Link or a defensive Snake is harder

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

geez calm down >_>
i don't live in USA, our smash community is not as big as yours but that doesn't mean we are bad, i'm sure that if we could have the opportunity and travel to those big tournies, we'd place well. Roy is my friend, he's from Colombia, he learned to play smash here, before he lives in USA, i don't have any fight vs him, because we haven't played, his last visit was in June, but he couldn't travel to Bogota and play, i think his next visit would be next year. He did play in Barranquilla, and there wasn't a huge different in level. But why do i have to fight Roy? He's not the only good player here, K1000o, Snes (Roy's crew), Gato and Silver (he beat Roy in melee), each one leader of his crew, are amazing player, and they have something that i don't, experience, and still i do well angaist them. They are not well-know because they don't have an account in this boards nor play in USA's big tournies. The same would happen to Roy if he wouldn't live there, but that wouldn't mean he's not an exellent player. Go and ask Roy yourself if i'm saying something wrong.
About our "tier list", it's just for fun, we count how many times each character has won our weekly friendlies tournament, Lucas is placed good because i have played Lucas since the japanese version came out, in those days, we all think that MK sucked, it was until the first official tier list whn players started to use MK, and we all realised that MK kicks ***. MK is placed 4th in our list, but with only 2 months of play, Lucas is 2, after 11 months, you do the math.
The figths i upload are vs sucky people, i know, but are only to show some fancy kills/stuff or just to test some Lucas moves. I invite you to stay tune to my profile, to the Favorites section, and watch the new fights Silver is uploading, and then tell me if they know what are they doing or not. I would put in my favorites only my fights, but you can watch the others ones, versus other people.
Sorry if i offend you, i didn't want to.

it's cool with me yo!
oops "yo" is "i" in spanish...
well the ebonics yo lol
OMFG I WANT AN APPLE CINNAMON MUFFIN
idk where that came from but like... i really want one now.

for me, a spammy Toon Link or a defensive Snake is harder

campy toon links are so stupid. campy snakes are wayyy easier to deal with than a campy toon link.
my worst is peach =[

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

Not to be mean guy but your assertion that DK is harder than all three is wrong, Zman. Trying playing people around DSF/M2K-level that use GaW, Marth, or Meta Knight, you'll realize exactly why Lucas can not do ANYTHING to any of them. Proof is in the people you play.

You play a good DK that beats you often, and its understandable that you'd think it's hard, but try attending a tourney-a-week. Every other week the tournies would have 65 players or more. This is across three counties. That's what I've been doing now for about a couple months, and with some experience behind me, I'd have to say that Game and Watch is easier than Meta Knight, who is easier than Marth. Play against strangers and they don't give a **** about how badly they beat you. They will not hold back. I'm pretty positive that Lucas can not do ANYTHING to Marth or Meta Knight, and barely hold his own against Game and Watch. Maybe we'll discover something in the future, but in the meantime we're going to have to battle through the metagame.

So unless you have a pretty good tournament history (I'm talking 10 or more, and not your average Smashfests with friends, and it doesn't matter how well you place, unless you're not learning) I'm going to have to take opinions with a grain of salt.

How does this all relate to Tyr's origianl post? Well, while Tyr may have learned a couple of things, he's at least attempting to digest, write down, and meticulously take note of things that are the center of the Lucas metagame. I can say all the things he's mentioned in his post, with a few exceptions, but for the most part, he's at least doing what many of us arent. And if we are doing that, he's doing 100000x better, and making the Lucas boards look unprofessional and unreasonable.

[/rant]

Note: I didn't want to offend anyone because I'm not targeting anything at anyone. Just pet peeves and stuff.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

But G&W and MK are another story there is no beating them at all
they completely shut down Lucas

well Id have to say that mk does not shut down lucas game (now G&W is another story on that matter...). While I used to think that there was no beating a good mk I'm actually starting to beat him. You just have to play hella smart/patient in this matchup.

 

[Deleted member]

^^^
Look at his post count and join date, obviously a noob. <3 (directed at cheeri-oats btw)


Lawl. I liked the matches, gj Tyr *thumbs up*

i think you were floatin around a little too much , and maybe it would be safer to stay on lower ground, especially vs MK. Maybe do some auto cancelled fairs to ftilts to space? Dunno i dont play lucas.

 

[ZMan]

My tournament history has been very inconsistant, ranging from 5-3rd place to near bottom. From tournies wtih 40+ people in them.

I LOVE fighting Snakes, Marths, and MKs. I guess it just comes from personal experience I guess.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

I don't think tournament placement is such a big deal though, I'm inconsistent as well. But I just find it so hard to believe that you love playing Marths when I see no openings or anything on really good ones.

 

[Irsic]

Now I don't enjoy playing Marth, but I don't think he's an unstoppable force like G&W. I do have trouble against DK though, but just not as much.

MK..occasionally I can win this matchup. It's not as lopsided as it would seem.

 

[Noraa]

hmm alot of b!tching in here i see lol.
Also, sin is an OK lucario at best nothing more.

Anyways, if you want to get better just come to the east coast......that simple. lol

 

[ToxiCrow]

On a more serious note, we may need a thread dedicated to only playing MK/G&W/Marth.
maybe we could find holes or something we could do to beat them

Thats a good idea
those are Lucas' worst three match ups

i vote yes to this. this will actually be a great idea and might help us out

 

[Chuee]

Three rules when fighting mk
1. NEVER edgeguard unless hes already used a recovery move and cant hit you.
2. Never let yourself open, he will punish you with his non-laggy attacks.
3. Try to not get hit by him at low percentages

As for marth just stay a safe distance from him, marth fails at long range.

I know noting about G&W lol srry.

 

[Veril]

Three rules when fighting mk
1. NEVER edgeguard unless hes already used a recovery move and cant hit you.
2. Never let yourself open, he will punish you with his non-laggy attacks.
3. Try to not get hit by him at low percentages

As for marth just stay a safe distance from him, marth fails at long range.

I know noting about G&W lol srry.

Wait... what?!

Don't get hit at low %. Doesn't that translate to "don't get hit at all", that being impossible against an MK. What am I missing here? Please clarify.

Also, you can't do anything to Marth at long range that he can't get through. There is no "just do this" way to beat Marth.

The best way to deal with G&W is to play on a team with G&W lol.


Seriously I agree that a G&W thread is in order.