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Chimp Charts: The Diddy Kong Matchup Thread - Seeking New Ownership

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TSM ZeRo

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okay guys we need to focus

trust me on this one

With customs ON, most important match ups to talk about are Rosalina, Olimar, Villager, DK and Sheik. Really put emphasis on first 2.

Anything you know, let's make this work.
 

Dooms

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Do you mind me asking what Olimar customs you are referring to?

A lot of the Olimar users in my area are starting to use Sticky/Hardy, but you may be referring to something else, so while I want to share any thoughts I have so they can be critiqued, I don't know if I will be referring to the same Olimar you are.

Edit: Actually, how are we wanting to handle custom discussion in general? Most common sets? Most powerful set against us specifically in our opinion? Just how each custom makes the character different and how to deal with that custom? I'm not quite sure how to approach these discussions.

Also, can we get someone that is actually active in the Diddy boards to run the OP so that we can have an updated matchup thread? I apologize if this comes across as rude, but I'd like for the Diddy boards to have the option to update their matchup thread OP and to have consistent discussions on matchups so that newer Diddy players can find what they're looking for when they click this thread.
 
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Hunterowner

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I've always been a firm believer that Diddy beats Rosa with customs off. I find it very interesting that ZeRo believes that with customs on, the match up changes. I've never encountered nor seen a Rosa with customs, so I cannot comment on that match up. I've only heard that she can become even more campy with customs on.

A little deviation from the new customs match ups talk, how do you guys feel about Megaman? His wall of projectiles has been causing me trouble lately, and it seems that we have no "best" approach. I've been doing just shield and roll, but I feel that there could be something better to do. I'd love to hear your opinions on the MU.
 
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Diddy seems to do fairly well against Bowser Jr, actually; his speed makes it easy to pressure Jr. and the Popgun makes approaching as Junior somewhat difficult. Diddy's aerials are easy to do and keep Jr. unable to counterattack in the air.

His D-Air also makes Junior's recovery a lot harder since he lacks much in the way of horizontal recovery outside of his Side-B The only real problems I've had with Jr. is just making sure to avoid the Mechakoopas to keep him from getting too much time to recover.

Other than that, Jr.'s a cakewalk for Diddy to deal with (though I've only battled a Level 3 CPU Jr, so maybe I'm totally incorrect. :p)
 

TimeMuffinPhD

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I've always been a firm believer that Diddy beats Rosa with customs off. I find it very interesting that ZeRo believes that with customs on, the match up changes. I've never encountered nor seen a Rosa with customs, so I cannot comment on that match up. I've only heard that she can become even more campy with customs on.

A little deviation from the new customs match ups talk, how do you guys feel about Megaman? His wall of projectiles has been causing me trouble lately, and it seems that we have no "best" approach. I've been doing just shield and roll, but I feel that there could be something better to do. I'd love to hear your opinions on the MU.
I've just been struggling against very campy projectile based character such as: Megaman and Toon Link. I will have to do some serious research from games on YouTube. It's a possibility I'm not playing patiently enough and maybe I rely on my banana a little too much.
 

Hunterowner

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The same goes for me, although to a lesser extent with Toon Link. I just cannot figure out the best way to play versus Megaman. I feel like his projectile game is even better than TL. His lemons beat our banana. I need to research and lab it up more against these guys.
 

BJN39

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Hello Diddys! ^^

The Zelda board is currently discussion the Diddy:Zelda MU, and we'd love input and scores from y'all on it!

:4zelda: Click Zelda to be teleported to the Zelda MU thread!
 

Swanky_

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Alright, 3 of my last 6 sets lost in bracket have been to Luigis. I know I've posted here asking about it, but I haven't got much insight on it. Can anyone help me out? I feel like I struggle to approach him and out-camp him, mostly due to fireball. Besides that I don't have too much specific insight on it as of now.
 

-Se7en-

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This Matchup Thread needs to start being updated with Matchup Information.
 
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wildvine47

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This Matchup Thread needs to start being updated with Matchup Information.
You got it boss! New, redone OP now up.

I'm thinking of changing matchup weekly or bi-weekly to allow ample time for each to be addressed. In addition to discussing the Megaman matchup, who's up first for discussion by choice of random number generator, please let me know of any suggestions/problems for/with the OP, and how often you'd like the matchup to change.

Also, if you've got experience with custom matchups, please talk about them a bit here, as I'd like to have those discussed as well.

For now, I'm off to the Megaman board to give them the heads up that they're the current hoo-hah target. Get to work on that Blue Bomber, everyone!
 
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C3PO

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So, I still do not like customs, despite how the meta might be changing, but I've got some very specific advice for normal Diddy vs Rosa:
A smart Rosa will space her luma through its jabs to edgeguard diddy (while he is grabbing ledge) with a spinning luma. This severly limits diddy's options and can lead to an easy gimp if not analysed correctly by diddy.
The two situations can be dealt with as followed:
  1. If the luma is precisely in line with the tip of the edge (right above it) and doing the spin attack, diddy can safely punish Rosa by ledge dropping (away from ledge), jumping and using side-B kick.
  2. If the luma is just over the ledge (spinning in the air), diddy can safely roll onto the stage, and turn around grab rosa.

Haven't got any videos of this, but hope it helps..

As for another random MU, here's a video from Shots Fired. Might give an idea of how to deal with Robin. Best thing with zoning characters is not to give them much, if any room to breathe.. or zone you as it might be.

Type into youtube (can't link video lol) - C3PO (Diddy), videos from SF will pop up.

Good luck,
 

C3PO

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Thank you for posting those ! @ Pazx Pazx

Well, I've tested this extensively (hours...). If luma is spaced just off the stage, you can roll without problem, behind Rosa. The only reason you should roll is if the luma is slightly off stage, otherwise you should back away and side b kick for a free punish. There's nothing she can do at that point. Third option, potentially drop and upb to the other side of stage, but could put you in the same situation, or receiving a dair as you would've re-grabbed the ledge.
 
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-Se7en-

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May I ask that nobody bases a matchup off of For Glory, it does not cover what stages you should choose, and basing a matchup off of lower players is a bad way to go about things, so I'll start this off by adding some knowledge and tactics for going against a good Yoshi :4yoshi:

Stages : Anywhere with a low ceiling such as Halberd or Town and City (U-Air for kills) or a small horizontal blastzone (B-throw for kills) but U-Air is the better option. This is important because it allows us to kill Yoshi earlier which is a blessing since Yoshi is surprisingly very heavy.

In Neutral Position a Yoshi will most likely run back and camp you with eggs because they expect you to either get a banana ready or run in for the early grab. F-Air works amazing in neutral since it comes out quickly, has great knockback, little to no endlag and it can stuff dash approaches. After awhile the Yoshi may jump because they don't want to get hit by F-Air, however you then have access to U-Air. Don't fish for grabs, you will get punished.

When Yoshi does an aerial he has to land, and you can punish landings hard. If they land near you with a poorly spaced aerial it's a free shield grab or if they land away you could throw a banana. Yoshi's option here is to either land with his neutral B to grab you or maybe Dair you or your shield, be wary of both since you will either take tons of damage or lose a lot of shield.

Yoshi may camp near the edge and try and use neutral b so respect Yoshi near the edge, you have stage control when Yoshi is cornered so use it to your advantage. If the Yoshi starts camping you can easily pull a banana and hit them with it or use peanut popgun, Fair may work as well.

If you see rolling patterns, you should use Monkey Flip so you can get the auto damage and then hit A so you can get in some excellent damage. However, don't be predictable as they may bait you and punish.

Closing Note : If you are ever in the scenario where you are an egg, mixup the timing in which you break out or else you may eat a U-Smash.
 
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Se7enSB

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Megaman..
I don't have experience against him but I do know have some information about him.

Buzz Saw (Neutral-B)
•If we grab Buzz Saw he can't throw another one.
•MegaMan is able to Glide Toss a Buzz Saw forward while throwing it down, pick it up and repeat for a true combo until a certain percent range (it's not dramatically high).
•At higher Percents Megaman can glide toss it down as mentioned earlier but rather than picking it up he can just Fsmash and may be able to kill off of it, not sure if it's a legit kill setup.

(F-Tilt)
•Watch out for footstools, he can Ftilt 3 times to force us to stand up just like a jab reset. At higher Percents this leads to a nasty Utilt.

(U-Air)
•Don't challenge it, land immediately or avoid more.

(D-Air)
•When you are recovering don't recover from directly under the ledge or you will lose a stock.

(B-Air)
•This move hurts, when we aim to recover Megaman can run off and grab the ledge very quickly and ledge trump us and end it with a B-Air.
 

wildvine47

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Maybe we can discuss a character on a weekly basis then @ wildvine47 wildvine47 can post up the most useful info on the OP.
Actually right now it's Megaman week! I reformatted the OP the other day and used RNG to decide Week 1's matchup. I'll make the weekly matchup bit a bit bigger, and weigh in myself later, because there doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion on this week's matchup atm.
 

Swanky_

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I personally don't have any input for the Megaman match up, as I haven't had to play one yet.

I have been REALLY asking for Luigi/Pikachu though with little to no help, could one of them perhaps be next week's character?
 

LiL.Will

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We are discussing Megaman lol
@ wildvine47 wildvine47
Vs. Megaman
The best way to approach Megaman is to run then shield or try to get Megaman to come to you if you have the percent lead.

When you start to get hit by multiple pellets thats usually Megaman's signal to know that he has the advantage. They know that you're going to be willing to take hard damage in order to get hit.

Because Diddy's ground normals don't have the best range. Megaman players tend to favor stages with platforms. (Battlefield,Town & City, sometimes smashville.)

Having Diddy on a flat stage can be problematic due to him not having to worry about platforms and gains the benefit of having more banana pressure and stage control.

Best solution when Megaman has the advantage is to back off while looking for the hole in his wall.

Megaman really excels at edgeguarding with Bair,Lemons, and Metal Blade

Megaman's kill moves are:
Bair,Fsmash (Usually for punishing),Uair,Usmash,and Utilt ( I usually see them get this off a good punish or read)

His spacing moves are:
Fair,Nair,Uair,Jab,Metal Blade,Crash Bomb,Leaf Shield,sometimes Bair.

Fun thing I like to do in the MU is time my SH Fair to stop his Metal Blade attempts

Monkey Flip Kick outprioritizes Lemons and Metal Blade but leaves you wide open.

Last but not least once you get in never let him breath.
 
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Se7enSB

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His recovery is actually better but at the same time worse than ours. It's better because it goes the same distance in the air but at the same time it's super predictable and has no hitbox meanwhile we could move wildly through the air to mix it up.

Also Megaman is juggle food.
 

Locke 06

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This should help a bit. This is a tad outdated, but it's the summary from the Mega Man boards' discussion of the MU. One of the few that I've actually compiled.
Diddy
First post & Last post
Zucco v ADHD - Tournament set Mega Man v Diddy
Scatt v Player-1 - Tournament set Mega Man v Diddy

Quotes of interest:
Well then, one of the few match-ups that I have experience in. Personally, I feel as if the match up is in Mega Man's favor. Banana's are virtually non-existent due to pellets; just by playing Megaman like Mega Man, Diddy's usual banana shenanigans are shut down. In neutral, I've found that continuously short hopping pellets are pretty safe against DIddy. You don't want to ftilt/ jab too much because you have to deal with Monkey-Flip mix-ups, which aren't fun at all and are generally only kept at bay with Metal Blades. Diddy's Fair, Uair, and bair all generally cancel out a single pellet, while more pellets generally will damage Diddy. Megaman's saving grace against Diddy's aerials are his nair buster hitboxes, which will usually beat Diddy in the air if he clanks with pellets.

Leaf Shield is the nuts against DIddy offstage. If so much as grazes below the stage, it usually ends in his death. Monkey flip from the ledge, a common mix up, is stuffed by Leaf shield, so it makes edge guarding him pretty much a non-issue.

As for Diddy's patented dthrow u-air combo, i've found that di'ing up and away from diddy's back to be most effective. You'll probably still eat a bair at low percents, but its much better than being above him and eating 30+%.
just skimmed through the comments and thought i'd just help out with avoiding dthrow > uair from diddy. If you DI away and DJ you will avoid his uair and not have to worry about being frame trapped by airdodging. I practice with 2 diddys on a semi-regular basis, and the only time i'm dying to dthrow uair is when I miss the DI as his dthrow comes out REALLY fast.
I have spent some time playing against and as Diddy (which I HIGHLY recommend for anybody struggling with a matchup... You get a new perspective on a char's weaknesses by playing as them)

First off, a little background... Diddy is a solid character. Probably top 3-5 in the game currently. As such, he's going to be a tough matchup for most characters and Mega Man is no exception.
Diddy's main strengths are his incredible grab/combo game, good killer combo with dthrow uair, decent range and priority across the board, dynamic projectiles (which open up the grab game), and good movement.
His main weaknesses are fairly low Killpower outside of uair, gimpable recovery, and terrible air movement.

That last point is probably the most important. Diddy moves like a non fast falling Fox in the air... Very little horizontal movement. He masks this very well with side b, which essentially propels him sideways with good speed, however it is a big commitment for him, as he has to use the command grab or kick, which is avoidable and punishable. He also gets his side b back after a hit, so that helps him when recovering. Diddy players will generally side b before their 2nd jump to gain some distance when recovering without burning a jump.

Now onto the matchup. I think it's very even. We win the zoning game, but he has the mobility to make it interesting, he slightly wins the killing game, and most other areas are similar. The recovery vs edgeguarding ratio is strongly in our favor. We generally beat him in the air, but his ground speed makes stage control difficult.

This is one of those matchups where pellet control is very important. Our pellets cancel his peanuts and projectiles, and generally make it hard for him to approach. He can make up ground during the downtime, so it's important for us to keep moving and jumping to avoid punishment.
Leaf shield is very very surprisingly good in this matchup. To the point that I almost always want a leaf shield up when Diddy is looking for grabs (nearly always). In the neutral, Diddy has very little that can get thru the leaves, if he does not land a punishment during startup. It also gimps the CRUD out of him by beating side b then touching the rockets.

On the ground, he will try to mix up side bs to get close. After starting it, he's committed to a command grab or the kick. Both of these are beaten by a dodge or an attack (fair/bair/etc). Aside from side b, he really can't approach in the air (which makes pellets really annoying for him).his aerial movement is terrible and mostly a gimmick. So predict and punish side b, and it goes a long way to completely shutting him down.
Related to this, get him in the air and you can really punish him for anything. We outrange him with fair and bair, so standard issue here.

When he lands a grab, ALWAYS DI behind Diddy and jump (DON'T AIR DODGE)... Makes it very difficult to connect the dthrow uair combo. If he starts landing it anyway, just mix up the DI and you'll get out of combos. just remember not to airdodge as he can whiff an uair then land ANOTHER one after your dodge. [Editor's note: See iiggyxD's post on DI]

I get most of my non gimp kills with bair here... Of course look for the utilt opportunities, but he's powerful, so a whiff is very bad for us.

That's pretty much it. Like I said, I'm calling this even. I thought it was his favor, but figuring out his movement has really helped
On the subject of Megaman, sure, pellets neutralize peanuts, so Diddy won't be relying on camping Megaman out. Instead, he will be trying to get in past the projectile barrage and land a grab. Megaman's close range options are not that great so Megaman has to try to use Leaf Shield and safe midrange zoning tactics to keep Diddy out (Megaman's aerial game is really good; f-air and b-air especially are dominant options). Is this effective against Diddy? Maybe. I don't really think so because Diddy is really fast, and he can mix up side-bs and banana tosses at appropriate times to still land grabs/get Megaman in the air (or just in close range), where he's less good/safe. His f-air is still a force to be reckoned with, and d-tilt pressure can be quite intense when he does manage to get in.

In the air, Megaman doesn't really have a reliable way to land against up-air, at least I don't think he does from my limited experience with the character. D-air is really easy to avoid and he has no fast n-air interrupt. Does Leaf Shield in the air protect against attacks?

When Diddy is offstage, Leaf Shield only gimps if the Diddy tries to recover from directly below. Megaman does have a really solid way to punish side-b to the stage, though, with his f-smash being as awesome as it is. There's not much a Diddy can do against a charged f-smash into a Leaf Shield. So I'm guessing that Diddy will try to recover high first, in which case Megaman does have that up-air to catch him out, but that won't send Diddy offstage again so unless it kills it might not do that much good in gimping. Seems like it's safer for Diddy to just recover high since recovering low can be risky against Megaman. So that's still pretty good for Megaman, at least: a Diddy who always recovers high (or most of the time, with some low mixups) will be taking damage on landing, and at higher percents getting knocked off again while trying to get back to the stage.

On the flipside, Diddy can't edgeguard Megaman as well as you would think, so overall, just based on my initial thoughts, I'd say that the matchup is pretty doable and at this stage I'd call it even. I don't really see how Megaman wins, though. D-throw to up-air / f-air didn't stop being ridiculously good or anything.
[in response to SolidSense] Diddy has to approach (not that he usually doesn't anyway, but we'll just establish that). The issue with side-B is that it can be very very risky at mid-high %'s (85 and up) because utilt will kill (with rage, it probably will kill Diddy at 85). When he wants to banana throw, he has to set it up, which makes his options limited. There are techs like airdodge dropping, instatossing, glide tossing, as well as z-dropping to an aerial, but shielding and camping becomes very powerful since he can't grab (with the exception of side-B which has the issues noted previously) and his banana gets neutralized by projectiles. This isn't saying both of these are sealed, as mixups allow for these things to work (just like fsmash works on characters with reflectors much more than people would think), but they're less effective on Mega Man than most. Once he gets in, well... yeah. Mega Man isn't doing so hot. Dtilt can help you escape a bit because of its mobility, but Diddy outclasses him as does the majority of the cast. (Also, FAir outprioritizes pellets and metal blade I think, so it's definitely a force to be reckoned with.)

Mega Man has a really good fast fall speed along with comparable horizontal airspeed (probably the same as Diddy's Editor's note: it is better than Diddy's), which helps him land against juggles. That said, up-air is a guessing game. D-Air is really easy to avoid and throwing metal blades down doesn't help a whole lot because they have so little priority. Leaf shield in the air doesn't protect against attacks, but it gives you a hitbox when dodging, so you can fast fall and dodge into people relatively safely. The issue is getting leaf shield out in time. It's definitely not a place you want to be, but it can be a sudden change that can give you time to breath.

Recovering high against Mega Man will usually net you a BAir (which is akin to Brawl MK's FAir/BAir). That move is just as amazing as Fsmash in edge guarding. If you're going into freefall high, utilt will end everyone 100% and up (and Diddy at 87% without rage). Off stage is great for Mega man, and also helps him get away from the whole uair shenanigans if he can go off stage and mixup his recovery.

Because of the anti-Diddy propaganda, Mega Man has a winnable/slightly in his favor matchup with Diddy, but when the dust settles I think it will be closer to even.
Summary:
Diddy is a strong character. His damage output per hit is disgusting compared to ours, and he's got great ground mobility in order to set up his grab game/aerial combo game. At the moment of this writeup, it is generally accepted that he is a fixture at the top of everyone's tier lists, so this matchup is an important one for those playing at a high level. Admittedly, this is a great test of how good your zoning is. Diddy wants a grab and will use his ground mobility to try and get in, and you want to keep him out/punish him for overreaching. Watching both Zucco and ScAtt's matches will really help you digest how Mega Man gives Diddy problems as they both play the matchup very well. It will also show Diddy's combo/damage output strength as well as general game plan. Diddy's dtilt pressure is strong once he's in on the ground, and can lead into some of his grab combos. Side-B monkey flip is a very good move and the kick outprioritizes our entire projectile kit sans fsmash. However, the kick is punishable on block and we have the mobility to avoid it as well. His FAir is safe on shield and does a very solid 12% with good range. While disjoints beat range, FAir isn't something you necessarily want to challenge. Diddy's weaknesses are his recovery and his horizontal airspeed outside of side-B. With our superior mobility, we can weave in the air while he cannot, so air-air fights should be in Mega Man's favor. We should also be able to recovery generally freely against the Monkey by covering our recovery with projectiles.

Strong moves & Counterplays:
Diddy
  • Downthrow: The infamous dthrow must be DI'd. If not, you will be subject to BAirx2>regrab>UAirx2 at low %'s or Dthrow>UAir kill at high %'s. Counterplay - At low %'s, DI towards Diddy's front so that you only take 1 UAir and no FAir/BAirs or DI up and away from Diddy's back to eat a BAir/FAir and then no more. At high %'s where UAir will kill you, DI towards Diddy's back (with no vertical influence) to avoid the UAir. Double jumping should help you avoid any FAir's
  • Banana: When Diddy pulls a banana, he can convert it into a punish on hit. He has to set this up by pulling it out and grabbing it, but he can vary this by smash down-B to toss it in the air higher than tilt down-B and insta-tossing. With a banana in hand, watch out for OOS banana toss and aerial banana tosses/z-drops to avoid clashing with Mega Man's projectiles. Counterplay - Metal Blade and Pellets. Both of these options will cancel out the banana (unknown if CB cancels). If you can pick up the banana and use it, do so and treat it like a metal blade. Banana trip > utilt/dsmash will have you hoping they pull out bananas for you to use.
  • Other notables: Fsmash - Quite a bit of range and hits hard; DTilt - frame 4 fast and can lead into grabs; FThrow is basically our bthrow; Side-B command grab/kick; FAir.
Mega Man
  • Downthrow: We get a lot of mileage out of our downthrow. Counterplay - Diddy's UAir is frame 3 with nasty range and autocancels on frame 15. This combo breaker needs to be respected, otherwise you won't be able to keep the advantage you gained off of your throw.
  • Gimp gimp gimp! Hit Diddy out of his up-B and he'll plummet to the bottom. Counterplay - Diddy will likely try to recover high or side-B to the edge. If they recovery high with side-B, their landing is suspect to shield grabbing as they either use an aerial to cancel side-B's landing lag or land with the lag. Another great counterplay is using b-reversals with the popgun to mixup where they'll land. Diddy cannot, however, use up-B for a while after side-B unless Diddy uses a double jump in between.
  • Leaf Shield: Helps us avoid/land grabs, ignore peanuts and sometimes bananas. Also helps with gimps. "Leaf shield is so good in the matchup. To the point that I almost always want a leaf shield up when Diddy is looking for grabs (nearly always). In the neutral, Diddy has very little that can get thru the leaves, if he does not land a punishment during startup. It also gimps the CRUD out of him by beating side b then touching the rockets."
  • Other notables: Utilt - Punish whiffed Fsmashes and side-B's, MB - eats bananas/peanuts, Bthrow - Get Diddy off stage.
Suggested Custom Loads:
Mega Man - Leaf Shield/Plant Barrier is strongly recommended. DW/IS might be stronger than CB due to their instant reward on hit.

Suggested Stage Picks: None were discussed. Halberd is likely to be Diddy's choice with its low ceiling. Larger base platforms allow for more spacing room. Smaller base platforms allow for more offstage play. Take your pick.

Overall Score: 52.5:47.5? Not many thoughts on the actual number, but Mega Man does well to keep him out and shut down his banana/camping game. Diddy's close range/combo kit is overwhelmingly strong, however, so I think most contributors consider this matchup is likely to be close to even if not slightly towards Mega Man's favor.
 
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Se7enSB

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Does anyone know if we can footstool Megaman during his up b?
 

COLINBG

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Hi Diddy mains, I hope you are all doing well.

The Pacman forums are discussing the MU against Diddy this week, and we would like to have feedback from your point of view. You can post in the Pacman thread, here.

Thanks in advance.
 

Wintropy

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Hello, chimpy challengers! The Palutena board is discussing the Diddy matchup right now, and we'd love your input!

EDIT: Disregard the Captain Falcon message in the OP.

We finished that a long time ago~ ;P
 
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Nexin

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I'm coming from the Palutena boards. Right now, I'm free to play on Wii U, so I want to work on this match up. Anybody up for a few games?

NNID: Nexinitus
 

wildvine47

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
964
Ok, for the last day of Megaman week, it's time for me to hop in with my opinions on the matchup.

I'd say Megaman is a character we have to play differently for, but not to the point that it's a bad matchup.

The most important thing to say right off the bat is that Megaman is one of the best gimpers in the game, if not the best. And we Diddies are especially vulnerable to being gimped. For that reason, in this matchup, try to avoid recovering low if at all possible. Very quick light hits like nair, fair, metal/shadow blade, and the shield variants are murder for low Rocketbarrel recoveries. If you get caught recovering low and Megaman's got a good position to intercept, expect to have the barrels tapped off you, or worse, get hard knuckle'd.

Megaman is also, obviously, one of the best long-range fighters in the game, having a ton of options to cover both horizontal and vertical distances, but for the most part, lacks the tools to reliably get someone off him. The best way to approach customs-off Megaman is from a 45 degree angle, as he doesn't have anything to defend that angle from other than an angled metal blade. When customs are on, Danger Wrap can cover this blind spot a bit more reliably for him, but at the expense of some of his horizontal pressure, making it a bit safer to approach a Danger Wrap MM from the side. Vertically, Megaman has air shooter and hard knuckle to cover those two angles, but both, Hard Knuckle especially, are unsafe if dodged while close up, and can easily be punished. When he's got customs on, however, watch out for Tornado Hold, as it covers a good distance below him, and sets up for some nasty combos.

Bananas are especially important this matchup, as Megaman often relies on having a constant wall of projectiles to keep his opponents at a comfortable distance. A well timed banana thrown from a low jump will avoid Megaman's projectile wall, and if it hits, will usually stop said wall for long enough for us to get good and comfy in his face. Once you're there, it's also not a bad idea to have a banana lying around as insurance, as one of Megaman's best escape tools, D-Tilt, is stopped by banana, allowing for us to keep on him. Be cautious of Megamen running Skull Barrier however, as it's reflecting comes up deceptively quick, and can capitalize hard on a poorly timed banana. Popgun also comes at Megaman through his blind spot, but is less effective at stopping him and more risky.

Offstage against Megaman is risky for both players. Always recover high if you can against Megaman, for reasons stated above, but be wary of stuff like air shooter and danger wrap that will try to catch you for doing so. For Megaman, however, his recovery, for all three customs, is very limited and predictable. Rush is his fastest recovery, but is very predictable, and because of it's less than stellar horizontal movement and the fact that he can bounce off a still-falling rush, is probably best countered with something to send Megaman off to the sidelines again, where, minus a double jump, he can't do much to save himself. Beat gives him more horizontal mobility, but is far slower, and he can't act out of it nearly as fast. Definitely pull out the meteors against a Beat user, as it leaves him open, doesn't go as high, and he cannot get a second bounce off it. Tornado Hold is one to be wary of, because although it doesn't have the height or horizontal movement of his other two options, it has some deceptively wide hitboxes, and can cause some really nasty surprise stagespikes.

Overall, both characters occupy very different distances that they're best at, and excel when they've got their opponent at the distance they want. It's going to be a very polarizing matchup, and the outcome will really mostly depend on who can better get the positioning they want. For that reason, I think the matchup is right around even 50-50, although I can see arguments being made for it to be in either's favor. Definitely not a bad matchup, just one to play more cautiously than most. This applies for both Customs-Off (C-F) and Customs-On (C-N) matchups as well, because most likely we'll be running an unchanged Diddy, and Megaman's custom options aren't strictly better, but just lead to different playstyles niches and coverage, whilst also losing him some coverage in other areas (ala Skull Barrier reflecting bananas, but also losing him the hits from Leaf Shield/Plant Barrier for gimping/grabs).

For stage choice, Duck Hunt is a good pick if it's not striked out, as the ducks can interrupt Megaman's projectiles and give us a chance to get in, whilst also having some close sideways blastlines, as well as flat walls to prevent surprise stagespikes. The platforms, especially the bush on the right, are good vantage points, or for a breather, as they're angled at a bad angle for Megaman, provided he's not directly below/parallel to you. Traveling stages like Wuhu, Skyloft and Delfino are also good picks, as they make Megaman's spacing game more difficult due to the changing layout.

Ok so, that's my weigh-in. Gonna leave Megaman discussion up until the end of tonight, at which point we'll switch over to... *RNG drumroll* :4pit: Pit! Pit will then be up for a week, just like Megaman was, and links to pertinent Megaman posts will be added to the OP. If you've got matchup numbers/comments you want to get in on Megaman, do em today folks.

Also, I've noticed some people specifically requesting that we cover certain matchups, which is something I'm open to suggestions about. Would you all prefer to switch over to a voting-based system for which matchup we discuss, or would you want the RNG-based system in place now to stay? Both are fine by me.

Also, considering the upcoming matchup, another pertinent question would be about the resident clones, Doc, Dark Pit and Lucina. Should they be discussed in the same week as their original counterparts, or should they be given discussion weeks of their own?

I'm open to any and all suggestions, folks, as this is my first time running a thread like this. Thanks for the help ahead of time, and hopefully together we can figure out how best to handle everyone on the roster.
 

wildvine47

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
964
Alright, the relevant Megaman posts have been added into the OP, and matchup ratios are up.

It is now officially Pit week! We'll be discussing little Pitty-Pat for a week, and then switch to the next character.

Also! For this week, please weigh in on whether or not we should decide the week's matchups by votes, or by RNG as it's being done now. As well, please weigh in on whether or not Dark Pit, Lucina and Dr. Mario should be discussed in the same week as their originals, or if they should have weeks of their own.
 

Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
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Here, there, who knows?
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My experience with Diddy is limited, but I think it's a tricky matchup for Pit. It's kind of hard to be defensive when your opponent is all up in your face twenty-four / seven. We've got to be on our toes all the time, since Diddy's faster and stronger than us, and he can kill us way more easily than we can kill him. He's also good with pressure and getting the kill becomes even harder for us with peanuts and bananas in the fray. And there's the ubiquitous Hoo-Ha to watch out for. Diddy's just got so many ways to kill us, while we have so few, it's tough.

I think the reason why it's not too unbalanced in Diddy's favour is because Pit doesn't really have any striking weaknesses to take advantage of. Diddy's just naturally good at a lot of things, he doesn't need to exploit Pit to be effective, so we don't really have anything huge to worry about. Diddy's also light, which means we can kill him with side-b at decent percents, and our arrows can gimp his recovery pretty easily. So as long as we stay ahead of the game and watch out for Diddy's universal advantages, we should be okay.

I think it's definitely in Diddy's favour, but not by a huge amount. It's not a matchup I would consider enjoyable or without hassle, but it's not one I'd be particularly concerned with either.

:4diddy: 60 : 40 :4pit:
 

redblade

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
44
Location
New York, NY
Surprisingly, we've only got one noteworthy Diddy main here in Colorado (he's not necessarily the most active, nor is he on the PR (yet), but he's placed well). Having said that, I've never played him in bracket, but I'll try to bring some things from a Pit perspective to the discussion.

So I'm not sure if Diddy players are comfortable with being edgeguarded either extremely horizontally or extremely vertically. Pit's recovery frees him to gamble on the deep offstage game in either situation. The horizontal situation's probably going to be more common given the trajectory on some of Pit's moves like ftilt and fthrow (and the very precise sweet spot on our dair spike), and in these situations, we can try to pelt you with arrows (perhaps to force you lower) or just chase you offstage with our three double-jumps and try for fairs, which can push you to the edge of the screen (for more fairs) and even kill. And if I'm not mistaken, attacks can trade with Monkey Flip. You guys will probably try to avoid the vertical situation, given the Rocketbarrels' vulnerability, but in those situations, we have options like shooting an arrow to intercept your flight path or dropping down and trying to hit you with a dair or bair.

(Question 1: do multihit moves still gimp Diddy's up-B, or do they take him out of stun? Because Pit's fair, nair, and uair are all multihit.)

Admittedly, that previous part was about an advantage situation for Pit; before that, we obviously have to get through the neutral game. In neutral, I think a Pit would play this matchup as more of a zoner via arrows (though not to the point of arrow spam) and his longer disjointed range. Diddy's got a speed advantage, but he still needs to get through Pit's swords. Advancing and retreating fairs and nairs, ftilts (of both the standing and pivot varieties), dtilts, and even jabs are the foundation of the Pit zoning game, and it's up to you to figure out how to break it. (Question 2: On the ground, does Diddy have any disjointed moves of his own?)

Random thought related to neutral: we don't necessarily have to shield or dodge the banana; we can just clank it with our swords by doing an ftilt or a jab combo or a short hop fair or nair. I think anyone can do this, but we have above average range, even with jabs, and nair does last almost the entire horizontal length of Pit's short hop. Could just be situational info, but I think it could add an interesting wrinkle for Diddy players trying to get a grab.

And at last, we get to some stuff about Pit's disadvantage. Nobody likes to get hoo-hah'd, and Pit's no exception. In fact, I personally find his escape options from juggle situations to be lacking; the double-jumps are nice, especially with higher platforms in play, but his air speed is lacking (tied for 39th with Dark Pit). Few if any sane Pits will bring out the Guardian Orbitars due to their startup and cooldown, so don't worry about that. Personally, I've never found dair (10 frames) to be a good juggle escape, and I've got doubt about the downward range of nair (4 frames). Upperdash Arm, though, you should probably be careful of that; its super armor frames can power through any aerial given the right read and spacing (even Diddy's fabled up air, I'm sure), and it can make for surprising kills if it lands near the ceiling.

More on disadvantage, though we Pits do love our long recovery, we're very vulnerable using it due to lacking any hitboxes. We'll try to cover our recovery with arrows or just use Upperdash Arm to power our way back horizontally when possible, but if you get us under the ledge, believe me, we won't be happy campers.

Other assorted thoughts:
  • We have down-throw combos too! (Well, a lot of characters do, but still.) Down-throw to up-smash (early only), down-throw to nair, down-throw to fair, and yes, down throw to up air are all valid combos (lower percents) and setups (higher percents). Down-throw to fair and uair can even kill at the right percents and placement (but our up air gets very bad when stale, and it's at the top of our juggling options...). IMO, the difference here is that when we down-throw, our moveset is geared more towards keeping opponents in the air for follow-ups.
  • As mentioned earlier, dair does meteor, so we could force you into one of those bad vertical recovery situations, but the hitbox is very precise (directly under Pit's body), and if we miss, we'll just lift you up instead, which is the exact opposite of what we'd want.
  • I'm sure you guys already knew that the peanuts aren't very high-priority projectiles, but to be sure, Pit's arrows smash right through those.
  • Normally, we'd be able to cover landing options with Upperdash Arm (super armor moves for covering landings FTW), but Monkey Flip throws a... well, a monkey wrench into things. If my slo-mo experiments are correct, Monkey Flip will grab Pit if Pit isn't advancing with Upperdash Arm; if Pit is advancing, though, that looks like it'll hit. Well, either way, Monkey Flip still covers enough horizontal distance to be a potential escape from the move itself (assuming no read on the Monkey Flip, I guess).
 

wildvine47

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
964
May I ask what order you are putting characters in?
Currently, characters are being decided by RNG. I use a random number generator to generate a number between 1 and 51, making sure to decrease the maximum each time we complete a matchup. Then, I match the random number up with an alphabetical list of the characters, and that decides our weekly matchup.

However, I'm open to changing the method to something different if people prefer. RNG was simply an easy way to get the ball rolling.
 

Dee-SmashinBoss

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
926
Currently, characters are being decided by RNG. I use a random number generator to generate a number between 1 and 51, making sure to decrease the maximum each time we complete a matchup. Then, I match the random number up with an alphabetical list of the characters, and that decides our weekly matchup.

However, I'm open to changing the method to something different if people prefer. RNG was simply an easy way to get the ball rolling.
Wish I could choose...... Unless I can request a couple? Only like 2 or something(BTW is this on offline or online perspective)
 

Galaxian

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
400
Location
Pickering, Ontario
NNID
Galax1an
I'm desperate. I really, really am.

How does Diddy fare against Rosalina or R.O.B, for that matter?

I find Diddy fun, I swear. I just want to know if I can use Diddy to overcome balance princess.
 
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