Chimp Charts: The Diddy Kong Matchup Thread - Seeking New Ownership

[MoosyDoosy]

- shrugs -

Sure, let's start with the first person on the list: Sheik. Especially since I disagree a bit with what RedBeefBaron says.

Pre-patch the matchup was dead 50-50.
- Sheik had the advantage in movement and approaching and Diddy was perfect for her to do a ton of combos on.
- On the other hand, Diddy was able to wrack up damage more quickly due to how strong hoohah was and he was able to kill Sheik fairly early.
- With the matchup fairly even, it basically came down to who knew the matchup better and how well you knew the other player’s tendencies.

Post-patch I would say the matchup is in favor of Sheik.
- Sheik still has the advantage in mobility, approaches, and combos. With Diddy’s ability to wrack up damage and get a kill early on nerfed, Sheik is basically able to wrack up damage a lot quicker while they both kill at around the same percentages.
- Based on stats and meta alone, Sheik definitely wins the matchup. Not to mention there’s that weird interaction where Sheik’s Dair can destroy a banana on the ground without tripping. o.o

Numbers are harder. I’d say 55-45 or 60-40. I’m more inclined to say 60-40 based on tournament results however.

Edit: Sheik’s Bouncing Fish also gimps all life out of Diddy off stage.

 

[ArikadoSD]

This was pretty much the only MU I played for about a month lol. I mained Sheik and my only training partner mained Diddy and all we played was Sheik Diddy unless we're messing with our secondaries.

I'd say the MU is kind of in Sheik's favour. Not sure by much, probably like 60:40, but it's in Sheik's favour for certain. What I always did was grab the banana and then Diddy's in a huge disadvantage between me having needles and the banana in hand. Diddy get's combo'd pretty easily and is gimped REALLY easily seeing how I can just throw a nair and it'll gimp Diddy's up B. His side b is also really punishable because it can lead to getting hit by uair if they're in the air or bouncing fish if they're landing.

I also frequently intercepted side b if I anticipate he'll be trying to aim for the ledge; i'd just full hop needles and at higher percents it combos into bouncing fish.

Sheik and Diddy are also kind of similar in the fact they have a great neutral, rack up a lot of damage, but then struggle to kill somewhat if we're unable to land kill setups. In the matchup, Sheik has an easier time landing kill options and outdoes Diddy in the neutral.

not sure if this helps at all really lol

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Some things: Shiek can certainly gimp the rocket boost, but many characters can do this. The hard part is forcing Diddy to recover low instead of monkey flipping high which is much safer. How can Shiek force Diddy to recover low?

I want to say Diddy has better kill potential at least slightly, between glide toss to f smash, d tilt to up smash, dair, and up smash OOS. Unless setting up bf is easier for Shiek than I've personally experienced.

Shiek has better mobility, but not by a significant amount. Monkey flip can be used more freely for mobility than bf thanks to momentum cancels and less end lag. Her mobility is great for grabbing and using peels like Diddy, however.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Some things: Shiek can certainly gimp the rocket boost, but many characters can do this. The hard part is forcing Diddy to recover low instead of monkey flipping high which is much safer. How can Shiek force Diddy to recover low?

like I said in my post, if diddy wants to aim for the ledge with side b needles will intercept it. recovering high can be easily anticipated and a uair/fair can be thrown at the right time and can clip him easily. I honestly feel like I can cover up all of Diddy's recovery options unless they mix it up and rocket barrel on the stage.

Also a different thing about Sheik is that she can go DEEP for the gimp, deeper than any other character, and still make it back.

 

[Sonicninja115]

like I said in my post, if diddy wants to aim for the ledge with side b needles will intercept it. recovering high can be easily anticipated and a uair/fair can be thrown at the right time and can clip him easily. I honestly feel like I can cover up all of Diddy's recovery options unless they mix it up and rocket barrel on the stage.

Also a different thing about Sheik is that she can go DEEP for the gimp, deeper than any other character, and still make it back.

If diddy recovers high the only hope he has of not getting punished is to b-revers cancel or banana reverse. other then that he is easily predictable in his recovery.

How does their on stage game compare? I have a feeling that shiek wins because of her needles and fair... but I don't think Diddy suffers that badly on stage against her...

IMO
Off-Stage 65/35 or 60/40
On-Stage: 55/45
Total: 60/40 Shiek's favor

 

[RedBeefBaron]

If Shiek has needles charged then recovering is gonna be pretty hard, theoretically.

Otherwise trying to stop monkey flip mixups seems pretty risky for Shiek. The kick has epic priority, the grab beats shields and the move itself has two speeds for mixups. And snapping the ledge will be much easier. Barrels have always been pretty underrated for high recoveries too.

The thing is Diddy has the mobility, frame data, range and approach tools to engage Shiek on stage and prevent her from charging needles too freely.

As I said earlier Diddy has good tools to deal with Shiek on stage, with great range to speed ratios in the air and on the ground, general mobility and monkey flip to pursue needles and beat landing traps, and glide tossing for micro spacing if he can set up a peel. I'd say even or slightly in diddy's favor on stage in neutral? But it makes sense for him to lose off stage overall because of needles and Shiek being great off stage as was said.

 

[ArikadoSD]

If diddy recovers high the only hope he has of not getting punished is to b-revers cancel or banana reverse. other then that he is easily predictable in his recovery.

How does their on stage game compare? I have a feeling that shiek wins because of her needles and fair... but I don't think Diddy suffers that badly on stage against her...

IMO
Off-Stage 65/35 or 60/40
On-Stage: 55/45
Total: 60/40 Shiek's favor

On stage his fair is pretty excellent. My friend would often use that oos to escape pressure if I ever try to space fair on shield.

If Shiek has needles charged then recovering is gonna be pretty hard, theoretically.

Otherwise trying to stop monkey flip mixups seems pretty risky for Shiek. The kick has epic priority, the grab beats shields and the move itself has two speeds for mixups. And snapping the ledge will be much easier. Barrels have always been pretty underrated for high recoveries too.

The thing is Diddy has the mobility, frame data, range and approach tools to engage Shiek on stage and prevent her from charging needles too freely.

As I said earlier Diddy has good tools to deal with Shiek on stage, with great range to speed ratios in the air and on the ground, general mobility and monkey flip to pursue needles and beat landing traps, and glide tossing for micro spacing if he can set up a peel. I'd say even or slightly in diddy's favor on stage in neutral? But it makes sense for him to lose off stage overall because of needles and Shiek being great off stage as was said.

The kick is pretty hard to challenge, I always noticed that. What you're saying is all good in theory but in practice that usually wasn't the case for me. I wouldn't just sit out and charge needles and let Diddy get his banana for free, i'd go and punish his banana throw or take it. I've always found myself trying to get the banana and that really hurts diddy's game in general. I don't think Diddy can handle a rushdown Sheik very well, especially not when she's always trying to get control of the banana and punishing it.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

In theory, Diddy sounds gr8 off stage but we all know he isn't. And I think it can be shown in theory and in practice that Sheik has the edge over Diddy in the neutral. I like Sonicninja's ratio. 60/40 in Sheik's favor it is.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

So, 6-4 Shiek over Diddy? I like to think we're okay on that one but I will respect the majority. Anything else on zero suit or pikachu before I try to get some more discussion going?

 

[Jaylowww]

Agreed on 6-4 Sheik's favor. I was gonna say 5.5-4.5 Sheik but I remembered that she destroys Diddy offstage

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't struggle with Sheik too much. Especially now that we have good killing options with U Smash and D Smash especially. It's not like Sheik can kill us off much earlier anyway, and our neutral challenges Sheik the best in the entire game, outside of Kirby with Needles maybe lol.

And it's not like Diddy's off-stage game is nonexistant either. It pays of to go for that off-stage F Air or B Air, and peanuts are also a very safe tool for off-stage pressure.

Am saying it's even. 50/50.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

I don't struggle with Sheik too much. Especially now that we have good killing options with U Smash and D Smash especially. It's not like Sheik can kill us off much earlier anyway, and our neutral challenges Sheik the best in the entire game, outside of Kirby with Needles maybe lol.

And it's not like Diddy's off-stage game is nonexistant either. It pays of to go for that off-stage F Air or B Air, and peanuts are also a very safe tool for off-stage pressure.

Am saying it's even. 50/50.

Unfortunately, both Usmash and Dsmash are rather situational and slow enough that we literally need a very solid prediction or a very good setup which won't happen against a Sheik that's good with her movement. And Sheik definitely has the edge in the neutral. Peanuts don't do much and bananas leave us vulnerable when we're plucking them especially in neutral.

And Sheik just wins offstage outright m8. We do not win that even when she is recovering. No, Bouncing Fish is too good for that.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

If anyone has thoughts on the ZSS matchup that would be great. I'm actually not that good at it. Paralyzer shenanigans just mess my game up so much since I'm used to controlling the tempo of the match. -.- Nowadays I'm just throwing out a ton of Dtilts and relying on a slip up so I can get a Hoohah in but I can't seem to get too aggressive.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Unfortunately, both Usmash and Dsmash are rather situational and slow enough that we literally need a very solid prediction or a very good setup which won't happen against a Sheik that's good with her movement. And Sheik definitely has the edge in the neutral. Peanuts don't do much and bananas leave us vulnerable when we're plucking them especially in neutral.

And Sheik just wins offstage outright m8. We do not win that even when she is recovering. No, Bouncing Fish is too good for that.

Situational? D Tilt > U Smash is a legit kill set-up most of the time, and it could probably kill Sheik around 120%. D Smash is more situational yes, but for a situational move it's a legit one nonetheless. At least we have the option now whereas it was hardly worth the risk before to pull off the move. Peanuts don't do much in the neutral game, true. But they are exellent edge guard tools. Just look at how ZeRo utilises them.

Sheik has the edge in neutral against every character, but against Diddy it's easily not as effective as against others. Which is basically my summary of the matchup in general; everyone gets **** on by Sheik, Diddy less so.

 

[Pazx]

Post Tourney Thoughts on Diddy's matchup spread:

Disadvantage:


Advantage:


Unsure:
(probably okay against Sonic, bad against Pika? Lucario is awkward but not necessarily bad, DK still sucks but gets better grab reward than us, unsure about the MK and Greninja matchups. Ryu is awkward and he's extra awkward for any character without easy bake kill confirms, pre-patch Diddy would have been Ryu's worst matchup by far. Fair + bananas seem more important than usual).

Irrelevant:
(everyone else)

 

[miniada]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...yxklAybEWtvybaF2w&sig2=nR2wQ5tjygokp1WQcmm0Uw were discussing diddy and we could use some help

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Post Tourney Thoughts on Diddy's matchup spread:

Disadvantage:


Advantage:


Unsure:
(probably okay against Sonic, bad against Pika? Lucario is awkward but not necessarily bad, DK still sucks but gets better grab reward than us, unsure about the MK and Greninja matchups. Ryu is awkward and he's extra awkward for any character without easy bake kill confirms, pre-patch Diddy would have been Ryu's worst matchup by far. Fair + bananas seem more important than usual).

Irrelevant:
(everyone else)

Reasons why Diddy would lose to ?

I feel defensive Diddy beats yoshi and falcon pretty cleanly. Rob has trouble dealing with our pressure and combos. I think he goes even with all the other characters there but olimar whom I don't really know much about.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I definitely think Diddy is either even or good against falcon. Put a banana in front of you and voila, you shut down all of falcon's approach options. Might explain more in detail when I get on my laptop (on phone atm)

Also think he goes even with Fox, I dont see a reason we'd lose the MU

 

[LiL.Will]

Ok since the OP hasn't replied to me taking over im just going to start a new MU thread lol. So be on the lookout for that!

 

[Diddy Kong]

I definitely think Diddy is either even or good against falcon. Put a banana in front of you and voila, you shut down all of falcon's approach options. Might explain more in detail when I get on my laptop (on phone atm)

Also think he goes even with Fox, I dont see a reason we'd lose the MU

Agreed on both matchups! I actually still think that Diddy probably has a solid advantage over C.Falcon due to how easy he is to combo for us, and not so much the other way around. C.Falcon's raw power in taking stocks is a good advantage over us though, but we build the damage faster than him, which is something a Falcon isn't usually prepared for unless fighting Sheik.

Am also still of the opinion that Ness is either even or we slightly win this. Ness is strong, but somewhat predictable and slowish which we can capitalise on maximally. And we out-do him in the air, which is uncomfortable for Ness. Or let me just say, F Air challenges a lot of Ness's aerials.

Only Top Tiers I think Diddy "struggles" with are the Mario Bros., they are just so uncomfortable to fight with their combos on us and how Diddy's neutral isn't as effective against them as against most of the cast. I personally think both Mario and Luigi are harder to deal with than Sheik.

 

[Lylo]

To be honest, I don't think our " Fair challenges a lot of Ness's aerials" .
I often play versus a Ness at my regionals on a weekly basis, Ness's Fair and Bair **** me when I clash with Fair.

 

[Wintropy]

Oh wow, it's a monkey with a hat!

...And a gun...?

Diddies and Diddettes! The Pit / Dark Pit board is currently discussing the Diddy Kong matchup, and we need your feedback!

Please bring bananas when you get there. We need the energy.

 

[The_Pizza_Guy]

guys sorry to bother you with this question but i couldnt find a better place for it , im looking for a reliable secondary/co-main for my luigi and since yoshi always gaves me trouble, rumor has it that diddy is a fairly decent counter against it , ive been reading the this thread but i couldnt made up my mind, sooo is it worth it as a counter against the dinosaur? , i know ovbiously that diddy is a great character by itself and i like his playstyle, but im asking especially on this particular MU. thanks for any replies.

 

[LiL.Will]

guys sorry to bother you with this question but i couldnt find a better place for it , im looking for a reliable secondary/co-main for my luigi and since yoshi always gaves me trouble, rumor has it that diddy is a fairly decent counter against it , ive been reading the this thread but i couldnt made up my mind, sooo is it worth it as a counter against the dinosaur? , i know ovbiously that diddy is a great character by itself and i like his playstyle, but im asking especially on this particular MU. thanks for any replies.

New MU thread is here: http://smashboards.com/threads/v1-1...tch-up-discussion-thread-week-1-shiek.419141/

Also we can't really answer that for you due to the new shield changes most of the Diddy players at the moment are trying to learn whats good and bad for him still...what makes it even worse is that many tournaments are currently having him banned now due to the bug he has so its pretty tough to give out information right now.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What!? Diddy is banned again? What sorcery is this?

 

[ArikadoSD]

What!? Diddy is banned again? What sorcery is this?

The glitch that makes him ungrabbable made some scenes ban it from their locals lol

Also he was never banned before anyway

 

[Swamp Sensei]

http://smashboards.com/threads/charizard-matchup-discussion-diddy-kong.419600/

Hello Diddy mains!

Us Charizard mains are currently discussing the Diddy vs Sheik matchup!

Come on over and tell us what you think.

 

[Neutricity]

Diddy Players! How is the Pac-Man vs Diddy Matchup?

 

[Gearitz]

Link vs Diddy matchup how has it changed since the last update? I just find it hard to kill him until he gets to very high percents such as 120-150+.

 

[Cat8752]

Only Top Tiers I think Diddy "struggles" with are the Mario Bros., they are just so uncomfortable to fight with their combos on us and how Diddy's neutral isn't as effective against them as against most of the cast. I personally think both Mario and Luigi are harder to deal with than Sheik.

Hmm, any other characters Diddy struggles against? (As a Yoshi main) one of the characters I've been looking to find a counter to is Diddy and I want to explore all my options. Possibly Luigi, how do you guys feel about that match up?

Edit: I see you have moved threads, I don't know if I should repost this in your new thread or keep it here. Either way sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[Swanky_]

Hmm, any other characters Diddy struggles against? (As a Yoshi main) one of the characters I've been looking to find a counter to is Diddy and I want to explore all my options. Possibly Luigi, how do you guys feel about that match up?

Edit: I see you have moved threads, I don't know if I should repost this in your new thread or keep it here. Either way sorry for the inconvenience.

pre patch luigi kind of dominated diddy (i heard various opinions from various diddy mains, but it was pretty unanimous that diddy lost the mu)

i'm not sure how the d throw nerf has adjusted that, however. It obviously helps Diddy, but by how much?

 

[ArikadoSD]

I actually played a bunch of the diddy luigi mu the other day, and I feel like the MU is really either even or ever so slightly in luigi's favour. He just can't kill unless off reads with bair or any smash attack. Banana dominates him but you gotta play around fireballs cuz they make the banana disappear. I found that challenging him off-stage to be very effective and my main way of killing Luigi.

When the Luigi camped with fireballs I found walking with a banana in hand, power shielding all of them, and then throwing banana out of shield (jump cancel throw) to punish the lag of one of his fireballs to be extremely effective, you can dash grab after that. They can't bait shield and grab this way cuz of fireball cooldown + no lag on shield drop animation cuz it would be a power shield.

Diddy's Fair beats all of Luigi's aerial options except Bair which trades with it, but the good part is that his bair is slower than diddy's Fair and has way more end lag, so on paper (and in practice) diddy's fair should win.

In theory diddy can go for a spike every time Luigi decides to use side b to recover, so long as its not so deep to where we can't make it back after going for the spike.

tl;dr Diddy has the tools to wall out Luigi (fair and banana) and obviously has a way better neutral. The only thing Luigi's got is some bs combos that he can do at low percents but that's it.

Also mix up ur side b movement cuz that can be predictable and can make Luigi land a free usmash.

 

[busken]

I can confirm Diddy beats MK solidly 60:40
MK has a really tough time dealing with Diddy because he can't challenge him horizontally since his SH aerials either are too slow, unsafe or have a lot of end lag. Banana seals the deal because Diddy can just plop a banana in front of him and doesn't have to worry about MK's approaches aside from the Dash Roll Forward Mix-up. I actually came here seeking a secondary to deal with Diddy and I think I might go back to Diddy. I have done a lot of labbing with him in the past and am willing to share what I know.

 

[Blue Banana]

Hi, the Olimar sub-forum is discussing the Diddy Kong matchup. Any input is appreciated.

 

[AvengerV]

I personally think Diddy Goes even with Fox, I've heard one or the other wins from many people. Thoughts?

 

[Swanky_]

I personally think Diddy Goes even with Fox, I've heard one or the other wins from many people. Thoughts?

I struggle with it personally at least a little. I believe Zinoto said it's slight edge Fox, and JJROCKETS said it's even?

It certainly is not unwinnably bad on either end or anything. Pretty close to even. The way JJROCKETS described the MU to me is the winner should always be camping pretty hard.

 

[AvengerV]

I struggle with it personally at least a little. I believe Zinoto said it's slight edge Fox, and JJROCKETS said it's even?

It certainly is not unwinnably bad on either end or anything. Pretty close to even. The way JJROCKETS described the MU to me is the winner should always be camping pretty hard.

Yeah, I've always heard different things. ZeRo says that Diddy wins. But yeah I believe it is pretty even.

 

[Pazx]

I personally don't know how to play the Fox MU but I've only played it against a Fox who is considerably better than me and is able to overwhelm me and stop me getting anything going.

 

[A_Kae]

Hello, Diddy Kong players! The Marth and Lucina sub-forum has begun matchup discussion and analysis on the Diddy Kong matchup. If you have any input to add, or wish to fight against a Marth/Lucina player for matchup experience, please join us at the following link.

http://smashboards.com/threads/vs-diddy-kong-matchup-discussion-and-analysis.427586/

And be sure to check the directory thread for the rules and guidelines.

http://smashboards.com/threads/matchup-discussion-and-analysis-directory.414156/

 

[Wintermelon43]

Hi Diddy Kong mains! So, I'm a Kirby main. And i'm having trouble getting better. To help this, I'm doing muitiple things, For one, I'm thinking of picking up secondaries for Yoshi and Toon Link's matchups aganist Kirby. As Yoshi's worst matchup is Diddy Kong, I'm severely considering picking him up. And then I need to pick up somebody for Toon Link. But, I figured, if Diddy Kong does good aganist Toon Link, I don't need to do that. So what is Diddy Kong's matchup aganist Toon Link?

So basicially, If you're lazy, and didn't read the above, What is Diddy Kong's matchup aganist Toon Link? Thanks