Character Discussion Thread

[Kenith]

How does hands cause lag in any sort of way?
He even shoots one shot of his move attack at a time.

I don't know, why don't you ask the guy who cut his Assist Trophy for some unexplained reason.
Just saying.

 

[Kalimdori]

I can see Isaac's Assist Trophy being cut one of these reasons:

- He has not been relevant for some time. This does not make sense to me, as he is still quite popular.
- His Move ability caused lag issues for 3DS. This is what I think happened, personally.
- His Move ability was too overpowered. Unlikely.
- The Gust Bellows item made his move ability "redundant". Highly unlikely.

I'm betting on the second theory, and I also think that's why Ray MK 2 was cut, due to it being very projectile heavy. Excitebikers also could have been cut for this reason, as there are a lot of sudden characters that show up when you summon them.
I can't think of a reason why Barbara the Bat and Jill were cut, though, except the first theory, but that still seems silly.

Helirin and Resetti were cut because they ****ing sucked.

I feel pretty safe in saying that there is no way that either of them were cut due to lag issues on the 3DS. Master Hand's new card move ,the Gust Bellows and Drill Arm all work in a similar fashion, there's nothing about Isaac's attack that makes it special from the others.

Ray wouldn't have been cut for that reason either, as Saki, Takamaru, Ghirahim, and Jeff all shoot out copious amounts of projectiles.

 

[Kenith]

I feel pretty safe in saying that there is no way that either of them were cut due to lag issues on the 3DS. Master Hand's new card move ,the Gust Bellows and Drill Arm all work in a similar fashion, there's nothing about Isaac's attack that makes it special from the others.
Ray wouldn't have been cut for that reason either, as Saki, Takamaru, Ghirahim, and Jeff all shoot out copious amounts of projectiles.

I don't know what to say about Takamaru, but Ghirahim and Saki's projectiles don't work like Ray's. Also, have you seen Ray's Assist Trophy? It fires multiple lasers and homing missiles simultaneously.

 

[Deleted member]

This may be a stupid suggestion, but it could be because what Isaac did was somewhat broken.

 

[LasermasterA]

I don't see why they would remove that because of it was "broken"

It was meant to work that way, pushing the opponent without dealing damage. From what I have seen , Palutena's reflect works in a somewhat similar fashion. Heck, Palutena's alt trophy text mentions the same thing that you could push someone over the edge with this Move.

Removing significant franchises in Nintendo's history and including obscure ones as well as 3rd parties just seems off to me. Especially when that certain game gets a bonus track and has one of the biggest fan-followings out of the requested newcomers, and the most when concerning a series yet to be represented.

 

[Deleted member]

Palutena can't KO invincible players, nor does her Reflect have the same properties.

 

[Kenith]

Isaac was a little overpowered, and I did bring that theory up. Still, consider the items and Assist Trophies we got in this game, including all of the Zelda stuff, like Gust Bellows, and the fact Midna will KILL YOU DEAD if you are not paying attention to her.
I don't think that's why Isaac is gone.

Two more theories I have in regards to Isaac:
- He is planned as DLC. If that's solely the reason he's not an AT, that's bad news for me.
- Time constraints. I'm leaning toward this as well, but still, why cut him of all of them?

 

[Deleted member]

You say that last part as if he's too "special" to be cut.

 

[Kenith]

You say that last part as if he's too "special" to be cut.

Well, he's certain above a lot of the other Assist Trophies. I mean, when you bring the Devil AT, of all things, and then cut the Assist Trophy of a character with a following as large as Isaac, it's going to raise some eyebrows.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, he's certain above a lot of the other Assist Trophies. I mean, when you bring the Devil AT, of all things, and then cut the Assist Trophy of a character with a following as large as Isaac, it's going to raise some eyebrows.

Some overthinking eyebrows.
Barbara getting a trophy yet not keeping her Assist role is arguably more questionable.

 

[Kenith]

Some overthinking eyebrows.

Don't patronize me. I don't believe he's going to be DLC, I'm just stating the facts.

 

[LasermasterA]

Palutena can't KO invincible players, nor does her Reflect have the same properties.

I never said same. I just said "similar".

If Isaac had gotten into the game (or might get into the game via DLC), I doubt his "Move" would have remained the same. It would have probably been toned down to just push, with less range and ineffective on invincible players. Or just removed altogether.

Barbara getting a trophy yet not keeping her Assist role is arguably more questionable.

Isaac losing his AT and not getting a trophy (so far there was none found) while getting an extra track on Palutena's temple is definitely even more questionable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You're all pretty questionable if you ask me.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't patronize me. I don't believe he's going to be DLC, I'm just stating the facts.

You don't have to believe he's DLC to be overthinking things. I'm not patronizing you, I'm telling you straight up that you're looking too deeply into something that honestly isn't that big.

I never said same. I just said "similar".

If Isaac had gotten into the game (or might get into the game via DLC), I doubt his "Move" would have remained the same. It would have probably been toned down to just push, with less range and ineffective on invincible players. Or just removed altogether.

And why do you think it would be changed if he stayed as an AT? Just gut feeling?
It's obvious that if he was playable it would be altered due to being overpowered as it is, but there's nothing to go by in regards to if he stayed an AT.

Isaac losing his AT and not getting a trophy (so far there was none found) while getting an extra track on Palutena's temple is definitely even more questionable.

-Many non-playable franchises get songs. Hell, Style Savvy got two new songs.
-For non-playable franchises, trophies are based more around post-Brawl releases. That means, outside of Isaac's model from Brawl, trophies for Golden Sun would be based around Dark Dawn, which would require custom-made models due to the low quality of what is readily available. Now, why not use Isaac's model from Brawl? Because he looks like this now:

Spoiler

Come to think of it, that could very well have been a contributing factor to him not being an Assist. More work for modernizing him.

 

[LasermasterA]

And why do you think it would be changed if he stayed as an AT? Just gut feeling?
It's obvious that if he was playable it would be altered due to being overpowered as it is, but there's nothing to go by in regards to if he stayed an AT.

No no no. I meant if he was playable. If he was playable his "Move" would have been changed or removed.

If he was an AT, he would have remained the same. Why would he have changed? I don't see how a hand will slow down the 3DS version.

-Many non-playable franchises get songs. Hell, Style Savvy got two new songs.
-For non-playable franchises, trophies are based more around post-Brawl releases. That means, outside of Isaac's model from Brawl, trophies for Golden Sun would be based around Dark Dawn, which would require custom-made models due to the low quality of what is readily available. Now, why not use Isaac's model from Brawl? Because he looks like this now:

Spoiler

Come to think of it, that could very well have been a contributing factor to him not being an Assist. More work for modernizing him.

Yes but Style Savvy never had a trophy. Plus it is a 3rd party game so it getting two songs itself is a big feat. Golden Sun on the other hand is a first party franchise, was really popular in its time, IS one of Nintendo's only JRPGs, still maintains a good fanbase and had pretty good demand for Isaac as playable.

It is the only 1st party franchise which has 2 songs and no playable rep. Or even a trophy for that matter. Plus we already talked about his AT.

Well they could have just ported his AT over. It is not like they didn't do the same for Lyndis and some others.

If they did not want to give a franchise new representation, they could just kept his older model. The Golden Sun games did come out on VC after all and they were much more popular than Dark Dawn. There is a reason why people keep saying that Dark Dawn's so-so performance was the reason why Golden Sun was not represented.

 

[AEMehr]

Yes but Style Savvy never had a trophy.

Plus it is a 3rd party game so it getting two songs itself is a big feat.

It's a first party game. It's co-developed by Nintendo SPD and syn Sophia.

[Golden Sun] is the only 1st party franchise which has 2 songs and no playable rep. Or even a trophy for that matter. Plus we already talked about his AT.

This would hold more ground if these songs were new remixes. But one of them is reused from the previous game and the other is unchanged from it's source. I mean, are we to assume that the AR Card mascot is more of a possibility because a song from the game is played in a stage?

Well they could have just ported his AT over. It is not like they didn't do the same for Lyndis and some others.
If they did not want to give a franchise new representation, they could just kept his older model. The Golden Sun games did come out on VC after all and they were much more popular than Dark Dawn. There is a reason why people keep saying that Dark Dawn's so-so performance was the reason why Golden Sun was not represented.

Did you not read Golden's post? A viable reason as to why they didn't do that is because he no longer looks like the model used in Brawl.

And I would have to agree, it makes sense that they would try to stay true to the character's current appearance.

 

[LasermasterA]

Ok, I think I may have messed up regarding Style Savvy.
(gotta do more research next time).

But Style Savvy did not have an Assist trophy.

Isaac's appearance in Brawl was definitely the most iconic appearance. I don't see why they couldn't have just kept it. I admit that the Dark Dawn track is just a direct lift not a remix. What do you mean by AR card mascot?

I am not saying that these are obvious clues to DLC, just a bit off. Unless Sakurai is just screwing around again.

Actually I am glad he doesn't have an AT appearance. He has a chance at being playable DLC

 

[True Blue Warrior]

-For non-playable franchises, trophies are based more around post-Brawl releases. That means, outside of Isaac's model from Brawl, trophies for Golden Sun would be based around Dark Dawn, which would require custom-made models due to the low quality of what is readily available. Now, why not use Isaac's model from Brawl? Because he looks like this now:

Spoiler

Come to think of it, that could very well have been a contributing factor to him not being an Assist. More work for modernizing him.

I never thought of this factor. Interesting.

 

[LasermasterA]

I never thought of this factor. Interesting.

Yea but being overlooked in favour of "more modern" 3rd party trophies is just not good. It is not like other new trophies were not added.

Or it is just Nintendo ignoring GS again.

I would prefer the third case of possible DLC

 

[PSIBoy]

You're all pretty questionable if you ask me.

We probably are.

 

[Andinus]

Isaac was a little overpowered,

I would not even say he was a little overpowered. He really was not all that hard to avoid, or survive IMO. I mean it's not like he never got me, but I certainly never thought, "oh crap, it's Isaac!" whenever he came on screen.

 

[Substitution]

I have a good idea, what about Excitebiker? I mean, he/they were an Assist that were cut. And he's unique (not to mention a retro rep). Why not?

 

[LasermasterA]

Hey what do you guys think of this?

6 of those spaces are the last enemies of All-Star Mode for Wii U, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Luigi, Mario, Donkey Kong and Mr. Game & Watch

It seems off considering how organized everything else looks. But then to fill it ALL up, you would need 16 characters. That is obviously too high a number.

 

[Kalimdori]

Hey what do you guys think of this?

6 of those spaces are the last enemies of All-Star Mode for Wii U, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Luigi, Mario, Donkey Kong and Mr. Game & Watch

It seems off considering how organized everything else looks. But then to fill it ALL up, you would need 16 characters. That is obviously too high a number.

Can I hear your logic as to why this is too high a number?

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Hey what do you guys think of this?

6 of those spaces are the last enemies of All-Star Mode for Wii U, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Luigi, Mario, Donkey Kong and Mr. Game & Watch

It seems off considering how organized everything else looks. But then to fill it ALL up, you would need 16 characters. That is obviously too high a number.

So its 6 now. Mewtwo is one, Wolf two, Ice Climbers three, Lucas four, Krool five, Isaac six. If we o to 16, Sami seven, Pious eight, Chorus men nine, Wonder Red ten, Krystal eleven, Bandanna Dee twelve, Captain Toad thirteen, John Raimi fourteen, Sukapon fifteen, Honorable mention Sturm (Advance Wars could use two reps), Ridley sixteen (At full height Ridley is two Bowsers tall, hunched over, he could work, just size him down a bit and size down his wings and tail.)
Well that's my idea.

 

[LasermasterA]

Can I hear your logic as to why this is too high a number?

Not much logic there. I just thought that it seemed too high a number for DLC characters. But counting the empty spaces with symmetry in mind, it seems like there are 16 spaces, which MIGHT be possible if they want to keep giving Smash new content.

Not that I would extremely mind that many. If there are 16 DLC characters, Isaac will definitely be one of them.

 

[PSIBoy]

So its 6 now. Mewtwo is one, Wolf two, Ice Climbers three, Lucas four, Krool five, Isaac six. If we o to 16, Sami seven, Pious eight, Chorus men nine, Wonder Red ten, Krystal eleven, Bandanna Dee twelve, Captain Toad thirteen, John Raimi fourteen, Sukapon fifteen, Honorable mention Sturm (Advance Wars could use two reps), Ridley sixteen (At full height Ridley is two Bowsers tall, hunched over, he could work, just size him down a bit and size down his wings and tail.)
Well that's my idea.

Only thing is, Sakurai did say Ridley was 'too big' to be in Smash. Bad reasoning, but unless he changes his mind, Ridley has a 0% chance. Sorry.

Can I hear your logic as to why this is too high a number?

Well, Sakurai needs to leave some form of fresh surprise for another Smash game. Besides, it does take a long time to make a character. At least a month for skins being converted to clone characters to about a year for a new character from the ground-up.

 

[Kalimdori]

Well, Sakurai needs to leave some form of fresh surprise for another Smash game. Besides, it does take a long time to make a character. At least a month for skins being converted to clone characters to about a year for a new character from the ground-up.

That's assuming that he will make another Smash game (I honestly don't think his health is good enough to do another one)

And the statistics for how long it takes to make a character in Smash is a bit misleading. It took Sakurai's team around a year to make a character, yes, but that was in combination with everything else they were making. If they were focusing on a handful of characters/stages it would take much, much less time (I'd guess 4-6 months for a full character, maybe 2 weeks, if that, for a clone).

Not saying there will be that many characters, but can't really say there won't be either.

So its 6 now. Mewtwo is one, Wolf two, Ice Climbers three, Lucas four, Krool five, Isaac six. If we o to 16, Sami seven, Pious eight, Chorus men nine, Wonder Red ten, Krystal eleven, Bandanna Dee twelve, Captain Toad thirteen, John Raimi fourteen, Sukapon fifteen, Honorable mention Sturm (Advance Wars could use two reps), Ridley sixteen (At full height Ridley is two Bowsers tall, hunched over, he could work, just size him down a bit and size down his wings and tail.)
Well that's my idea.

Only way I could realistically see Ridley happening (Besides Sakurai changing his mind) is if the next Metroid game portrays him in a fashion that is more easily converted to a playable character.

 

[PSIBoy]

That's assuming that he will make another Smash game (I honestly don't think his health is good enough to do another one)

And the statistics for how long it takes to make a character in Smash is a bit misleading. It took Sakurai's team around a year to make a character, yes, but that was in combination with everything else they were making. If they were focusing on a handful of characters/stages it would take much, much less time (I'd guess 4-6 months for a full character, maybe 2 weeks, if that, for a clone).

Not saying there will be that many characters, but can't really say there won't be either.


Only way I could realistically see Ridley happening (Besides Sakurai changing his mind) is if the next Metroid game portrays him in a fashion that is more easily converted to a playable character.

Good point, but Nintendo can always get a new director, though any new director will not be in the caliber of Sakurai.

 

[Ffamran]

That's assuming that he will make another Smash game (I honestly don't think his health is good enough to do another one)

And the statistics for how long it takes to make a character in Smash is a bit misleading. It took Sakurai's team around a year to make a character, yes, but that was in combination with everything else they were making. If they were focusing on a handful of characters/stages it would take much, much less time (I'd guess 4-6 months for a full character, maybe 2 weeks, if that, for a clone).

Not saying there will be that many characters, but can't really say there won't be either.


Only way I could realistically see Ridley happening (Besides Sakurai changing his mind) is if the next Metroid game portrays him in a fashion that is more easily converted to a playable character.

Or we could have another Metroid character who becomes as memorable as Ridley. Still, Dark Samus could still work even if she still shoots like Samus and Mega Man, the resident arm cannon fighters. Dark Samus can levitate, have a Thoron-like beam instead of a energy ball like Samus's Charge Shot, the dash-divebomb thing she does in Prime 2, and a bunch of other stuff. Dark Samus can only be a clone if they make her/it into a clone just like what happened to Lucina, Dark Pit, Ganondorf, Luigi, Falco, Roy, Pichu - granted, it's a pre-evolution - , Young/Toon Link - we all know Link uses more than just a bow, boomerang, hookshot, and bombs -, Lucas, and almost to Wolf - he was supposed to be in Melee.

Edit: About Ridley, they could make him into a recurring boss instead of a stage hazard. He'd be this awesome boss you can fight alongside Master Hand, Crazy Hand, and Master Core. Heck, make it so that Master Core can upgrade or infect Ridley. It's be freaking awesome, I tell you!

 

[skylanders fan]

we could always just keep ridley in his normal size and beg for him oh wait nevermind we alredy did that

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Hey what do you guys think of this?

6 of those spaces are the last enemies of All-Star Mode for Wii U, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Luigi, Mario, Donkey Kong and Mr. Game & Watch

It seems off considering how organized everything else looks. But then to fill it ALL up, you would need 16 characters. That is obviously too high a number.

Very nice i can agree with it possible

Well to start off no question mewtwo is one of the 6 suposive missing.

Until sakurai has a change of heart one of them will never be ridley

I can exspect is one of them easily

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Hey what do you guys think of this?

6 of those spaces are the last enemies of All-Star Mode for Wii U, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Luigi, Mario, Donkey Kong and Mr. Game & Watch

It seems off considering how organized everything else looks. But then to fill it ALL up, you would need 16 characters. That is obviously too high a number.

Eh, I'd just take it easy and say Wolf, Dixie Kong, Krystal, Mewtwo, Sceptile, and Isaac

 

[mymerlincat]

Geez, didn't realize people here were so anal about Ridley smh.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Yeah Ridley was last on the list for a reason, they could do super metroid Ridley as alast resort,but unlikely. Heres the new list.
Mewtwo is one, Wolf two, Ice Climbers three, Lucas four, Krool five, Isaac six. If we o to 16, Sami seven, Pious eight, Chorus men nine, Wonder Red ten, Krystal eleven, Bandanna Dee twelve, Captain Toad thirteen, John Raimi fourteen, Sukapon fifteen, and sixteen Sturm (Advance Wars could use two reps).
I know some have slim chances,but this is my wish list.

 

[loganhogan]

I hope they take advantage of dlc.

 

[Mcvjjmdm]

Anyone think Simon Belmont has a chance for DLC? Seems really unlikely but you never know.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Anyone think Simon Belmont has a chance for DLC? Seems really unlikely but you never know.

Uh..... No.

I'm sorry, but I don't think we're getting anymore third party characters

 

[PSIBoy]

Uh..... No.

I'm sorry, but I don't think we're getting anymore third party characters

Except for maybe Snake, but even he looks unlikely. The company Snake is from (can't remember the name) and Nintendo aren't exactly on friendly terms.

And you change your profile picture every other day it seems like.

 

[Miffa]

Except for maybe Snake, but even he looks unlikely. The company Snake is from (can't remember the name) and Nintendo aren't exactly on friendly terms.

And you change your profile picture every other day it seems like.

Konami is the company who owns snake.