ParanoidDrone
Smash Master
You can shield it too unless I'm much mistaken.
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Character Competitive Impressions
- Thread starter Shaya
- Start date
- Status
kataridragon
Smash Ace
You can shield it but it eats a lot of it. I also think if your shield is low the after burst will hit you.
Signia
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,157
Sorry if you consider this a tier list, but this is an organized categorical opinion on character strength. It's not ranked in any particular order. All based on watching streams all weekend and hearing qualified opinions. Obviously biased in favor of or against characters that the streamers have used well or poorly.
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Perceived Top
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McBlack (wtf, mix of characters' best moves (Mii characters))
DHD (Zero and M2K says he's good, great zoning?)
Bowser (Zero and M2K say he's good, has amazing kill potential)
ZSS (Zero and M2K say she's good) fast, combo heavy, kill combos)
Villager (Zero and M2K says he's good)infinite recovery, hard counter to all projectile characters)
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Also looking pretty good
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Robin (godlike pk fire, burns on whiff and shield, combos to strong smashes)
Sheik (amazing all around except everything seems to do half damage)
DDD (great hitboxes, edgeguarding, combos from throws)
Pacman (people say he's good. idk, zoning? hitboxes?)
Puff (Bair is an early kill move, rest is decent, great offstage edgeguarding)
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Showing Promise
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Falcon (actually combos, has kill moves)
Little Mac (really is that amazing on stage, with reliable kill power and safe moves on shield, but he dies easily)
Link (good all around)
Mario (good all around)
Doc (good all around)
Sonic (good all around)
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People Have Said Good Things About
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Metaknight (still pretty strong despite nerfs)
Game and Watch (combos from throws really well, but lacks kill power)
Yoshi (great neutral game spacing tools)
ROB (pretty good all around)
Rosalina (people think she has untapped potential. who knows)
Bowser JR (people like the character, but I think he's a bit overrated)
Diddy (saw some good japanese players doing work with him)
Shulk (Probably the best sword character)
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Meh
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Pit (nobody likes him)
Dark Pit (nobody likes him)
Pikachu (nothing too special about him, but not bad I guess)
Marth (bad but not that bad)
Lucina (bad but not that bad)
Luigi (bad but not that bad)
Fox (bad but not that bad)
Falco (bad but not that bad)
Kirby (bad but not that bad)
Ganon (has great kill potential but probably still has trouble against projectiles)
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Not Looking Good (have seen these characters just get destroyed over and over)
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Zelda (slow, awkward)
WFT (bad hitboxes, nothing good about her)
Samus
Palutena (slow and nothing special)
Charizard (just bad)
Megaman (flimsy zoning and not much else)
Ike (brawl copy-paste)
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I have no idea
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Peach
Toon Link
DK
Lucario
Greninja
Olimar
Ness
Wario
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Perceived Top
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McBlack (wtf, mix of characters' best moves (Mii characters))
DHD (Zero and M2K says he's good, great zoning?)
Bowser (Zero and M2K say he's good, has amazing kill potential)
ZSS (Zero and M2K say she's good) fast, combo heavy, kill combos)
Villager (Zero and M2K says he's good)infinite recovery, hard counter to all projectile characters)
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Also looking pretty good
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Robin (godlike pk fire, burns on whiff and shield, combos to strong smashes)
Sheik (amazing all around except everything seems to do half damage)
DDD (great hitboxes, edgeguarding, combos from throws)
Pacman (people say he's good. idk, zoning? hitboxes?)
Puff (Bair is an early kill move, rest is decent, great offstage edgeguarding)
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Showing Promise
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Falcon (actually combos, has kill moves)
Little Mac (really is that amazing on stage, with reliable kill power and safe moves on shield, but he dies easily)
Link (good all around)
Mario (good all around)
Doc (good all around)
Sonic (good all around)
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People Have Said Good Things About
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Metaknight (still pretty strong despite nerfs)
Game and Watch (combos from throws really well, but lacks kill power)
Yoshi (great neutral game spacing tools)
ROB (pretty good all around)
Rosalina (people think she has untapped potential. who knows)
Bowser JR (people like the character, but I think he's a bit overrated)
Diddy (saw some good japanese players doing work with him)
Shulk (Probably the best sword character)
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Meh
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Pit (nobody likes him)
Dark Pit (nobody likes him)
Pikachu (nothing too special about him, but not bad I guess)
Marth (bad but not that bad)
Lucina (bad but not that bad)
Luigi (bad but not that bad)
Fox (bad but not that bad)
Falco (bad but not that bad)
Kirby (bad but not that bad)
Ganon (has great kill potential but probably still has trouble against projectiles)
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Not Looking Good (have seen these characters just get destroyed over and over)
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Zelda (slow, awkward)
WFT (bad hitboxes, nothing good about her)
Samus
Palutena (slow and nothing special)
Charizard (just bad)
Megaman (flimsy zoning and not much else)
Ike (brawl copy-paste)
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I have no idea
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Peach
Toon Link
DK
Lucario
Greninja
Olimar
Ness
Wario
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Bedoop
Poyon
Palutena...Low Tier?
Well that's some serious Scale Tipping.
Qikz
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2014
- Messages
- 30
I've played through the classic mode with all the characters and a bunch of online and honestly, I've no idea how but I think nearly all of the characters show some kind of promise if put in the hands of a good player. Megaman may seem a bit gimped at the minute but I think if someone took him to the lab and really experimented they might be able to come up with something amazing. Think of like Amsa with Yoshi in Melee. He's got hidden potential somewhere there to be a good zoning character, much like DHD has.
Shoutouts to my two mains of Marth and Lucina, because despite their range nerf they can still kill from on stage near 100% and their arials are nothing to be scoffed at. Once again, in the right hands they should both be really powerful, even if Lucina doesn't have a tipper.
Shoutouts to my two mains of Marth and Lucina, because despite their range nerf they can still kill from on stage near 100% and their arials are nothing to be scoffed at. Once again, in the right hands they should both be really powerful, even if Lucina doesn't have a tipper.
MarPuff432S
Smash Rookie
I Cant Make ChainsGrab?, *n*
MasterOfKnees
Space Pirate
I think the most underrated character atm is Dedede, despite losing his chain-grab he has still received a huge buff even if he was already a very good character, his new F-Air, D-Air, F-Tilt, D- Tilt, D-Throw and Side-B are incredible tools. He also has a lot of combos he can mix up in different ways between his aerials and throws. I think people should keep a sharp eye on him, I feel like he can sweep the majority of the roster off its feet.
Captain Falcon is also a bit underrated, he combos better than most of the other characters (maybe only outdone by Sheik) while packing a lot of power in his hits, that combined with his speed will see him being used a lot.
Donkey Kong is also a bit overlooked, he's not one of the best by any means but still very good, especially now that the Dedede hard-counter is gone. Same for Diddy Kong actually, he has a lot of combo potential..
If Shulk had a better recovery he would definitely be one of, if not the best characters in the game. Despite his weak recovery I still think we'll see a lot of him.
I feel like Duck Hunt Dog is very overrated, his projectiles really aren't as scary as people make them out to be, his Down-B and Side-B will be very easy to avoid since they are slow, the only one really worth noting is his Neutral-B which is a great mindgames tool. For the most part when I've seen Duck Hunt Dogs trying to camp people usually just run up and punch them in the face. He's still going to be good no doubt, but people are a bit too scared of him imo, he can be countered.
Ganondorf is okay. Not bad, not great, just okay. For the most part he's still slow and has a lot of lag, but on the other hand he has great attacks like U-Air, F-Air, B-Air, F-Tilt and a F-Smash that does 25% uncharged and kills sub-100%, so he's a mixed bag imo.
Rosalina is going to be decent at best, while she has the Luma she also has a few big flaws that will essentially doom her, most notably her size combined with her incredibly low weight, essentially one of the same flaws that threw Mewtwo down.
Falco, while not a great character by any means, isn't as terrible as people say honestly, they just need to get off the D-Airplane and change their playstyle. He and Fox both look decent, although Fox is the superior character this time.
Little Mac is no doubt going to be the worst character as far as I see it, he's doing okay right now, but once people learn to adapt to him he's going to be hard countered so badly. There are so many ways to counter him: You can keep to the air or the ledges and wait for him to get impatient, you can gimp him which instantly kills him, or you can flat out just counterpick him and roll him over with Jigglypuff or Meta Knight. It's a bit of a shame because he looks fun, but in a game like Smash Bros where the air game is so important he suffers a lot by his design alone.
Other than that I mostly agree with what people have been saying, a lot of old-school veterans like Mario, Samus, Pikachu and Jigglypuff are looking very good, despite nerfs Marth and Meta Knight are still good characters, Sheik, Bowser and ZSS are the best characters in the game, Ike, Mega Man and Zelda aren't good, etc. Overall though I think the balance is looking very good in this game, some characters need buffs, but for the most part at least half of the cast look like they can be viable.
Captain Falcon is also a bit underrated, he combos better than most of the other characters (maybe only outdone by Sheik) while packing a lot of power in his hits, that combined with his speed will see him being used a lot.
Donkey Kong is also a bit overlooked, he's not one of the best by any means but still very good, especially now that the Dedede hard-counter is gone. Same for Diddy Kong actually, he has a lot of combo potential..
If Shulk had a better recovery he would definitely be one of, if not the best characters in the game. Despite his weak recovery I still think we'll see a lot of him.
I feel like Duck Hunt Dog is very overrated, his projectiles really aren't as scary as people make them out to be, his Down-B and Side-B will be very easy to avoid since they are slow, the only one really worth noting is his Neutral-B which is a great mindgames tool. For the most part when I've seen Duck Hunt Dogs trying to camp people usually just run up and punch them in the face. He's still going to be good no doubt, but people are a bit too scared of him imo, he can be countered.
Ganondorf is okay. Not bad, not great, just okay. For the most part he's still slow and has a lot of lag, but on the other hand he has great attacks like U-Air, F-Air, B-Air, F-Tilt and a F-Smash that does 25% uncharged and kills sub-100%, so he's a mixed bag imo.
Rosalina is going to be decent at best, while she has the Luma she also has a few big flaws that will essentially doom her, most notably her size combined with her incredibly low weight, essentially one of the same flaws that threw Mewtwo down.
Falco, while not a great character by any means, isn't as terrible as people say honestly, they just need to get off the D-Airplane and change their playstyle. He and Fox both look decent, although Fox is the superior character this time.
Little Mac is no doubt going to be the worst character as far as I see it, he's doing okay right now, but once people learn to adapt to him he's going to be hard countered so badly. There are so many ways to counter him: You can keep to the air or the ledges and wait for him to get impatient, you can gimp him which instantly kills him, or you can flat out just counterpick him and roll him over with Jigglypuff or Meta Knight. It's a bit of a shame because he looks fun, but in a game like Smash Bros where the air game is so important he suffers a lot by his design alone.
Other than that I mostly agree with what people have been saying, a lot of old-school veterans like Mario, Samus, Pikachu and Jigglypuff are looking very good, despite nerfs Marth and Meta Knight are still good characters, Sheik, Bowser and ZSS are the best characters in the game, Ike, Mega Man and Zelda aren't good, etc. Overall though I think the balance is looking very good in this game, some characters need buffs, but for the most part at least half of the cast look like they can be viable.
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iruchii
Smash Apprentice
Hello again guys. This weekend I got to play LOTS of offline matches against my friends, so here are my general (and updated) impressions on some (more) characters.
[Greninja]
I played many, many Greninja games and every single one I felt like I was working waaaay too hard for both damage and kills. I feel like his tilts have no range and are too slow, making his neutral ground game really poor, meaning your best bet is either spamming Water Shuriken or spacing in the air with Fair. His other aerial options just kinda suck in general, as Bair doesn't autocancel in a shorthop and Nair has too long of a startup (but it's still a decent move). Dair is surprisingly useable though, as long as you hit it, and makes for good shield pressure. His smash moves are pretty strong, and you can consistently hit your Up Smash by punishing rolls and dodges (t also hits the platforms on Battlefield). While it's honestly not really looking very good for Greninja, I feel like there's something I'm missing about him, so I hope next time I can find out exactly what that is.
As for finishers, his smashes are actually pretty strong, but the move decay mechanic comes into play here. If you use your USmash to punish rolls, it probably won't be strong enough to KO most characters at acceptable percentages. DSmash is not as strong, and FSmash is not as easy to hit. You can finish (or follow people offstage) with Fair, but that's another move you'll be using a lot, so the decay kinda screws you over.
In the end, I don't really know what to make of Greninja. Like I said earlier, I feel he has potential and that I'm probably not fully 'getting' him. He's really fun to play, and his movements are great. But he also feels weak, and that the speed-power tradeoff is not worth it when you have to work so hard for your kills. I'll say it again though: he's a blast to play.
[Shulk]
Initially I was very underwhelmed with Shulk. He felt just like Brawl Ike to me, except he had a poor Fair zoning game due to the lack of a C-Stick (jumping backwards and using Fair is hard without it), and less kill potential. However, as I started to explore his Monado stances more, and as my understanding of his range and startups got better, I started to see the potential in this guy. His best tools are definitely his Ike-like jab, OOS UpB, Bair/Fair spacing and smash attacks. Oh, yeah, his counter is decent as well.
When you know the order of the stances (jump, speed, defense, damage, power), you can tap B really quickly and get to the one you want easily. The stance-change animation can be cancelled by inputting any other attack, too. I usually start the match with either the purple (damage) or blue (speed) stances. Purple is for obvious reasons -- his three-hit jab combo does about 12%, and other tilts/aerial moves all do more than 10% per hit. It's not hard to get from two to three jab combos and maybe a Fair or Nair with the stance up, giving you a very nice lead. The blue stance, however, is great against projectile spammers or shield-happy players. What it allows you to do is to run past your opponent before they can react, and either pivot tilt or pivot grab them. It's an amazing, amazing mixup, and very hard to punish. When you get them to about 70~90%, it's a good time to switch to red (power) and punish rolls with your smashes or bait them into an OOS UpB. The second hit from your UpB is so strong with the power stance, KOing early.
I think players who make good use of the Monado stances will be really rewarded. Shulk is fun and strong, and I feel he's pretty good. If you're excited about him, you're directing your excitement quite well!
[Rosalina & Luma]
Wow. Just wow. I know this has been said over and over, but this character has so much potential it's even a bit unsettling to play as her. You always feel like "damn, I could've done ~that~!" while playing her, because as you start to understand how Luma works and how to position them, the ideas just start coming to your head. When you have Luma with you, your combined tilts and smashes create such a safe zone around you, with good damage and combo potential. When Luma is away from you, the stage will be under your control, reducing the opponents options and potentially 'sandwiching' them in a combo. It just feels like there's so much you can do with her, and it's even a bit hard to explain.
As strong, fun and full-of-potential as Rosalina sounds, she's not without a few faults. Luma sometimes will turn around weirdly, using their tilts in the wrong direction. Luma's range, when alone, is also really short and whiffs will be common until you get used to them. As for when Rosalina is alone, her Utilt has no hitboxes in front of her, and all of her B moves are useless against pressure when Luma is not around. As a counterpoint, I feel like people are over-exaggerating her weight issues. She may be big and light, but with Luma shielding her most of the time, the safeness of her aerials and tilts, the fact that the opponent has to divide their attention between both Rosalina and Luma, plus her great rolls and dodges and her hard-to-gimp recovery, it feels like you can survive most things just fine.
All in all, playing Rosaline & Luma is a very unique experience. It can't be overstated how much potential this characters has, and how great it feels to play her (except when Luma behaves weirdly, but I believe this is just a matter of getting used).
[Greninja]
I played many, many Greninja games and every single one I felt like I was working waaaay too hard for both damage and kills. I feel like his tilts have no range and are too slow, making his neutral ground game really poor, meaning your best bet is either spamming Water Shuriken or spacing in the air with Fair. His other aerial options just kinda suck in general, as Bair doesn't autocancel in a shorthop and Nair has too long of a startup (but it's still a decent move). Dair is surprisingly useable though, as long as you hit it, and makes for good shield pressure. His smash moves are pretty strong, and you can consistently hit your Up Smash by punishing rolls and dodges (t also hits the platforms on Battlefield). While it's honestly not really looking very good for Greninja, I feel like there's something I'm missing about him, so I hope next time I can find out exactly what that is.
As for finishers, his smashes are actually pretty strong, but the move decay mechanic comes into play here. If you use your USmash to punish rolls, it probably won't be strong enough to KO most characters at acceptable percentages. DSmash is not as strong, and FSmash is not as easy to hit. You can finish (or follow people offstage) with Fair, but that's another move you'll be using a lot, so the decay kinda screws you over.
In the end, I don't really know what to make of Greninja. Like I said earlier, I feel he has potential and that I'm probably not fully 'getting' him. He's really fun to play, and his movements are great. But he also feels weak, and that the speed-power tradeoff is not worth it when you have to work so hard for your kills. I'll say it again though: he's a blast to play.
[Shulk]
Initially I was very underwhelmed with Shulk. He felt just like Brawl Ike to me, except he had a poor Fair zoning game due to the lack of a C-Stick (jumping backwards and using Fair is hard without it), and less kill potential. However, as I started to explore his Monado stances more, and as my understanding of his range and startups got better, I started to see the potential in this guy. His best tools are definitely his Ike-like jab, OOS UpB, Bair/Fair spacing and smash attacks. Oh, yeah, his counter is decent as well.
When you know the order of the stances (jump, speed, defense, damage, power), you can tap B really quickly and get to the one you want easily. The stance-change animation can be cancelled by inputting any other attack, too. I usually start the match with either the purple (damage) or blue (speed) stances. Purple is for obvious reasons -- his three-hit jab combo does about 12%, and other tilts/aerial moves all do more than 10% per hit. It's not hard to get from two to three jab combos and maybe a Fair or Nair with the stance up, giving you a very nice lead. The blue stance, however, is great against projectile spammers or shield-happy players. What it allows you to do is to run past your opponent before they can react, and either pivot tilt or pivot grab them. It's an amazing, amazing mixup, and very hard to punish. When you get them to about 70~90%, it's a good time to switch to red (power) and punish rolls with your smashes or bait them into an OOS UpB. The second hit from your UpB is so strong with the power stance, KOing early.
I think players who make good use of the Monado stances will be really rewarded. Shulk is fun and strong, and I feel he's pretty good. If you're excited about him, you're directing your excitement quite well!
[Rosalina & Luma]
Wow. Just wow. I know this has been said over and over, but this character has so much potential it's even a bit unsettling to play as her. You always feel like "damn, I could've done ~that~!" while playing her, because as you start to understand how Luma works and how to position them, the ideas just start coming to your head. When you have Luma with you, your combined tilts and smashes create such a safe zone around you, with good damage and combo potential. When Luma is away from you, the stage will be under your control, reducing the opponents options and potentially 'sandwiching' them in a combo. It just feels like there's so much you can do with her, and it's even a bit hard to explain.
As strong, fun and full-of-potential as Rosalina sounds, she's not without a few faults. Luma sometimes will turn around weirdly, using their tilts in the wrong direction. Luma's range, when alone, is also really short and whiffs will be common until you get used to them. As for when Rosalina is alone, her Utilt has no hitboxes in front of her, and all of her B moves are useless against pressure when Luma is not around. As a counterpoint, I feel like people are over-exaggerating her weight issues. She may be big and light, but with Luma shielding her most of the time, the safeness of her aerials and tilts, the fact that the opponent has to divide their attention between both Rosalina and Luma, plus her great rolls and dodges and her hard-to-gimp recovery, it feels like you can survive most things just fine.
All in all, playing Rosaline & Luma is a very unique experience. It can't be overstated how much potential this characters has, and how great it feels to play her (except when Luma behaves weirdly, but I believe this is just a matter of getting used).
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Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
TeaTwoTime
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2014
- Messages
- 732
That was rather funny to watch, but damn. If this works on multiple characters then we've got a problem.
For some reason I don't see this getting patched - the only way to fix this that I can see would be to allow characters to roll out of being footstooled (which, I take it, is not possible in Smash 4).
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The Light Music Club
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2013
- Messages
- 3,225
- Location
- Knoxville, MD/Elizabethtown, PA
- NNID
- _TLMC_
- 3DS FC
- 0576-6097-0725
Lucina and Palutena should not be that low. They and DHD, and Pika are the characters I use. I promise. Pacman is also way to high, he feels like he's the only character running at Brawl Speed. Lucina and Palutena are way better than him.
Edit: Charizard and Ike are down there too? You must not be watching footage of people playing with them correctly. They are both better than their Brawl counterparts.
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Replies like that are why we want to avoid "tier lists" at this early stage (we have barely had tournaments of any relevance). There's no point arguing down at someone's opinions, especially if your only response to them are ... your own opinions.
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ParanoidDrone
Smash Master
Alternately, prevent ZSS from footstooling someone for a few frames when she first does her flip.That was rather funny to watch, but damn. If this works on multiple characters then we've got a problem.
Qikz
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2014
- Messages
- 30
I suppose they could just use the report system and ban people who use it. In tournaments it wouldn't be an issue because there could be rulings forbidding the use of it like the Ice Climbers freeze glitch in melee (fairly certain that's against the rules right?)That was rather funny to watch, but damn. If this works on multiple characters then we've got a problem.
MasterOfKnees
Space Pirate
Somebody on Reddit claims it's only possible to do on Robin, because for some reason footstooling him doesn't send you up in the air in the same way it does every other character. Sounds more like a bug to me honestly, something they can patch out if they catch the scent of it.
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I've played like 100 matches in For Glory. Here are some random thoughts of mine:
Pac-Man is pretty good. Haven't used it yet myself (but faced quite a few) but the Side Special - I think it is? - is pretty damn great with good knockback that lets Pac-Man start shifting through his projectiles. The last one has incredible knockback and is lethal and it's hard to know what projectiles he's about to use. And he's just pretty weird in general, took me some time to adapt.
I faced a Ness yesterday and the one using him was good at least. Back throw is a reliable kill move at 125%+ at least and that's pretty good in this game. Also has a potential combo game, and the Up Special has been buffed by the looks of it.
I agree with M2K that Sheik has the potential but has some fundamental flaws as well, will be interesting if the amazing speed, no landing lag and combo game will help outweigh its lack of range and KO moves.
Zelda has the best Up Special in the game period. Flawless recovery move. Has great knockback, both when disappearing and reappearing. You can combo Up Special into Up Special and this can KO as early as 75% depending on the character. So we're talking about basically guaranteed KO's at 90%+ with a move you can use out of shield in a game where all the talk is that it's so hard to get ko's.
I faced one great Yoshi player the other day, the only I've faced so far. But I was barely able to do anything. Either Yoshi is good or he's the by far best player I've faced so far.
Duck Hunt has great potential with its projectile game. Will take time to really hone the character though.
Pac-Man is pretty good. Haven't used it yet myself (but faced quite a few) but the Side Special - I think it is? - is pretty damn great with good knockback that lets Pac-Man start shifting through his projectiles. The last one has incredible knockback and is lethal and it's hard to know what projectiles he's about to use. And he's just pretty weird in general, took me some time to adapt.
I faced a Ness yesterday and the one using him was good at least. Back throw is a reliable kill move at 125%+ at least and that's pretty good in this game. Also has a potential combo game, and the Up Special has been buffed by the looks of it.
I agree with M2K that Sheik has the potential but has some fundamental flaws as well, will be interesting if the amazing speed, no landing lag and combo game will help outweigh its lack of range and KO moves.
Zelda has the best Up Special in the game period. Flawless recovery move. Has great knockback, both when disappearing and reappearing. You can combo Up Special into Up Special and this can KO as early as 75% depending on the character. So we're talking about basically guaranteed KO's at 90%+ with a move you can use out of shield in a game where all the talk is that it's so hard to get ko's.
I faced one great Yoshi player the other day, the only I've faced so far. But I was barely able to do anything. Either Yoshi is good or he's the by far best player I've faced so far.
Duck Hunt has great potential with its projectile game. Will take time to really hone the character though.
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PK_Wonder
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2010
- Messages
- 1,179
Here are my personal impressions of each of the five characters in the demo, after several dozen matches with each one, playing each possible matchup:
Villager - He is clearly dominant when an opponent relies heavily on projectiles (Mega Man). He is an anti-camping defense soldier and trickster. Has great edgeguarding with Timber, side smash (bowling ball), and even his dash attack. Has a great down tilt (weed pluck), and juggling up smash (fireworks). Seems to be the same weight as Mario, and has one of the best recoveries in Sm4sh, although has a pretty punishable and slow free fall. Definitely A-tier material.
Link - Definitely improved from all previous iterations. He's quicker both on ground and in air, and has better combo ability due to both improvements and more hitstun in general. His dash attack definitely leads to some combos. His tether recovery is really good. He's all-around really slick. Finally the Hero of Time has been done justice.
Mario - Quicker, and combos really well. His aerials and fsmash are good. Up B is a more reliable kill move. FLUDD isn't totally worthless this time, it has better range, and knockback it seems. Like Link, this is the best version of Mario in any Smash game.
Pikachu - My main in 64, Melee, and Brawl. He's still a glass cannon. Thunder spikes downward instead of KOing off the top, which can bring an opponent into some combos. Pika still has good recovery and can rack up damage, but can't take a lot himself and lacks great kill moves. I'm not too impressed with my former main, but that's okay, I was looking for a change anyway. I think he's way more about air game now, so he needs some playing around with.
Mega Man - Not my cup of tea,but one of my friends ranks him as their #1 character, so go figure. He's very, VERY projectile dependent considering his A attacks are projectiles. He has a couple good close-range moves (usmash, dsmash, slide, grabs and throws), but they are punishable if you mess up. His recovery is good, and Crash Bomber is really annoying for opponents. Leaf Shield is pretty worthless. He is probably the most punishable character in the demo. Again, these are just initial impressions.
Villager - He is clearly dominant when an opponent relies heavily on projectiles (Mega Man). He is an anti-camping defense soldier and trickster. Has great edgeguarding with Timber, side smash (bowling ball), and even his dash attack. Has a great down tilt (weed pluck), and juggling up smash (fireworks). Seems to be the same weight as Mario, and has one of the best recoveries in Sm4sh, although has a pretty punishable and slow free fall. Definitely A-tier material.
Link - Definitely improved from all previous iterations. He's quicker both on ground and in air, and has better combo ability due to both improvements and more hitstun in general. His dash attack definitely leads to some combos. His tether recovery is really good. He's all-around really slick. Finally the Hero of Time has been done justice.
Mario - Quicker, and combos really well. His aerials and fsmash are good. Up B is a more reliable kill move. FLUDD isn't totally worthless this time, it has better range, and knockback it seems. Like Link, this is the best version of Mario in any Smash game.
Pikachu - My main in 64, Melee, and Brawl. He's still a glass cannon. Thunder spikes downward instead of KOing off the top, which can bring an opponent into some combos. Pika still has good recovery and can rack up damage, but can't take a lot himself and lacks great kill moves. I'm not too impressed with my former main, but that's okay, I was looking for a change anyway. I think he's way more about air game now, so he needs some playing around with.
Mega Man - Not my cup of tea,but one of my friends ranks him as their #1 character, so go figure. He's very, VERY projectile dependent considering his A attacks are projectiles. He has a couple good close-range moves (usmash, dsmash, slide, grabs and throws), but they are punishable if you mess up. His recovery is good, and Crash Bomber is really annoying for opponents. Leaf Shield is pretty worthless. He is probably the most punishable character in the demo. Again, these are just initial impressions.
micstar615
Smash Ace
This game seems to me like it's very well balanced so far. I disagree with making tier lists atm because it's too early and I feel as if we're overlooking a lot of characters here. Nairo showed a lot of potential with his Zelda, her Phantom is a great edge guarding tool and her FW is really good. Pacman and Bowser Jr also seem really good, they have a lot of tools and combos. Ness is looking wonderful as well. Rosalina has such good grabs and her jab combo is surprisingly fast and strong, a good RoLuma player will be a threat. Peach and Jiggs seem to be really good off stage which is very important in this game.
So far no character looks awful, they all have strengths and flaws, looking forward to seeing how this meta develops, hopefully it'll be very diverse.
So far no character looks awful, they all have strengths and flaws, looking forward to seeing how this meta develops, hopefully it'll be very diverse.
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goodspeed87
Smash Journeyman
Mega Man would be perfect if his dtilt popped up for combos, his utilt didn't have such insane follow-up lag (or had a KO at the tip of the punch), & his leaf shield acted more as a preemptively applied buffer or disruptor (couldn't be thrown, didn't prevent other actions, & had an internal cool down).
Just perfect. Too bad though.
Just perfect. Too bad though.
Conda
aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
His leaf shield is very disappointing. However, its a tool that is unlike any other tool in the game. Doing goofy trolly things - like leaf shield -> roll spam - are decent punishments for whiffs and overaggressive approaches. Theyre just very risky, as what happens next is not in megamans favour or disfavour. Both players are in equal footing, making leaf shield bot useful for gaining an upper hand.
But what leaf shield DOES do is interrupt opponent inputs and scramble their actions. That'll be worth something, as good players can always find a use for frustrating their opponent and being unpredictable.
But what leaf shield DOES do is interrupt opponent inputs and scramble their actions. That'll be worth something, as good players can always find a use for frustrating their opponent and being unpredictable.
Life
Smash Hero
If Leaf Shield goes far enough horizontally, it might be good for harassing an offstage opponent without committing as hard as you otherwise should.
Chandeelure
Bandana Brigade Captain
Oh God...Little Mac looks very bad, his recovery is terrible.
You can just grab, throw him and then hit him with an aerial XD
You can just grab, throw him and then hit him with an aerial XD
Conda
aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
Problem is megaman has better moves that come out faster.
Nairo
Banned via Administration
Zelda has some great potential in this game! But so far I'm having a hard time fighting some characters with her but I will be messing around with her and reflet more!
micstar615
Smash Ace
You did wonderful with Zelda! It was a delight to watch
do you think she'll be more viable this time around?
WizKick
Smash Apprentice
Lemons have more hit stun than leaf shield, especially with buster slap. I see them performing that better.
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Rich Homie Quan
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2014
- Messages
- 887
Marth and Lucina should actually perform pretty well. I've seen some nice things out of both of them at low percent. Very similar ground game to Melee Marth.
Falco will be great. Ground game is very strong. Jab, Dash Attack, Tilts are all fantastic. Aerial game might be a tad nerfed, but the spike is workable. Lag management on spike feels similar to brawl ganondorf. His limits are gonna be KO power.
Sheik seems amazing. What she lacks in kill moves, she makes up for with fantastic offstage play. Onstage, she has some fantastic combos, fantastic pressure tools, and some really interesting approaches. Those that gain a solid control over her will gimp. Again, offstage play is key.
Falco will be great. Ground game is very strong. Jab, Dash Attack, Tilts are all fantastic. Aerial game might be a tad nerfed, but the spike is workable. Lag management on spike feels similar to brawl ganondorf. His limits are gonna be KO power.
Sheik seems amazing. What she lacks in kill moves, she makes up for with fantastic offstage play. Onstage, she has some fantastic combos, fantastic pressure tools, and some really interesting approaches. Those that gain a solid control over her will gimp. Again, offstage play is key.
Ganreizu
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2010
- Messages
- 670
I believe shiek, zero suit, pac-man, rosaluma, bowser, and DDD make the strongest cases right now. These characters either have low lag aerials, high weight/tons of kill potential, multiple off stage mobile offensive options, powerful zoning ability, powerful/high utility projectiles, or a mix of all of these. Duck hunt dog most likely fits up there for the same reasons as rosaluma/pac-man, but current controls hold him back.
I also believe that competitively, everyone in this game is viable (as long as custom moves are legal). I do worry about little mac though but i'm sure it won't be a problem with gamecube controls.
I also believe that competitively, everyone in this game is viable (as long as custom moves are legal). I do worry about little mac though but i'm sure it won't be a problem with gamecube controls.
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Neanderthal
★ ★ ★ ★ ★
Mac sounds like the perfect character for people completely new to the game. They generally can't recover anyway so it makes little difference.
Competitively viable.... Only if some frustrating campy strategy is developed. But it's hard to tell with a character who's so different to anything else we've ever seen.
TTTTTsd
Gordeau Main Paint Drinker
Little Mac I believe, while people are all like "GROUND OFFENSE" I feel in the end his meta will involve something that is, actually canon to punch out! Baits and using his good ground normals for punishes and holes in the enemy's offense/defense.
Really Little Mac's punish game looks like it'll have AMAZING potential due to his speed and power on the ground. If anyone approaches from the air though ggs, unless you're smart.
Really Little Mac's punish game looks like it'll have AMAZING potential due to his speed and power on the ground. If anyone approaches from the air though ggs, unless you're smart.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
I agree with this. I've noticed Little Macs who go aggro and dash attack someone near the ledge are the ones who get stomped. If you control center stage and be patient, I think he's a lot better. Of course, all I've seen of him has been on FD variants. Dunno how platforms will factor in.
Ganreizu
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2010
- Messages
- 670
There was one match where TKbreezy used a heavy bait strategy using his insane ground speed coupled with his insane roll speed to dance around an entire character and wait for a move. Seems like a great strategy for mac specifically because he moves so fast that even if you honestly think you could hit him you don't and if mac thinks he will be hit he can always counter.
I feel like people aren't taking advantage of counter nor the super armor on his neutral B, but that's just me. Maybe they suck, i don't know.
I feel like people aren't taking advantage of counter nor the super armor on his neutral B, but that's just me. Maybe they suck, i don't know.
MechaWave
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
- Messages
- 2,227
Well, it depends. Little Mac's super armor does not protect you from all attacks. The risk is slightly higher than the reward. His punch takes a while to charge to gain decent distance and it has high end lag, so in Mac's case, it's better to use other options.
Ganreizu
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2010
- Messages
- 670
I meant more as an aerial option. There are likely better on stage moves with super armor. I don't know if super armor is the same or if there is distance traveled though, or if you can even use it in the air at all.
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Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
I feel like counter moves in general might be a bit more handy. I've seen Shulk and Marth's counter moves kill at really low %. I know usually counters tend to get thrown to the wayside, but they may be worth looking into again.
SonicZeroX
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2005
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- 1,601
- 3DS FC
- 4425-1491-5645
I think different counters might work differently as well. We know Marth's counter strength scales off of the attack that hits him, but I saw Shulk kill with his counter off of a weak jab it at 120% so I don't think it works the same.
Probably has to do with the fact Yoshi is heavy and you can't kill him, ledge mechanics help him a bit from edgeguarding while of course a bit of a nerf to his camp game on the ledge (not like he gets 5 hops from eggtoss anyways) and still incredibly mobile especially with the change in his DJ being faster and eggtoss giving him more momentum compared to being forced to go the direction you're already holding before initiating eggtoss in brawl.
Nairo
Banned via Administration
IMO I think she will be more viable but she still has some hard MUs but she aint bottom 3 or anything like in brawl which is just greatYou did wonderful with Zelda! It was a delight to watch
The Light Music Club
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2013
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- 3,225
- Location
- Knoxville, MD/Elizabethtown, PA
- NNID
- _TLMC_
- 3DS FC
- 0576-6097-0725
Warning Received
Got myself destroyed by a Zero Suit Samus. Don't know if it's because I'm still not very good with Palutena or because I was trying to stay quiet since I was playing in the library.
ZSS had some crazy combos in that matchup, and it seems like if she can get you in the air she can become a real threat, and with the fact that this game seems aerial based, she will be a real threat.
Later I had a match with Dedede, and using his Gordo through he was able to him me toward him and then threw me back into the Gordo, then hit me with a up smash as a crazy combo. King Dedede's UP B stars can kill now also which surprised me when I flew up at like 130%. He looks pretty good too.
ZSS had some crazy combos in that matchup, and it seems like if she can get you in the air she can become a real threat, and with the fact that this game seems aerial based, she will be a real threat.
Later I had a match with Dedede, and using his Gordo through he was able to him me toward him and then threw me back into the Gordo, then hit me with a up smash as a crazy combo. King Dedede's UP B stars can kill now also which surprised me when I flew up at like 130%. He looks pretty good too.
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- Status