Character Competitive Impressions

[X3I]

Develop, please ?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

M2k can't beat a ganon or donkey kong. Casual tier.

also can post a link to m2k losing to a ganon? much appreciated.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Those aren't reliable kill options. Whiffing either of the smashes will get you KOed by the waft.

Good luck hitting Wario with a Bair.

U-smash can be combo'd into through Jab 1 -> Jab 2 -> U-smash.

You can land B-air no problem as long as you don't go offstage to do it (in fact, you should only go offstage with a B-air if you're feeling 1Y0L0% sure you'll get it).

 

[A2ZOMG]

also can post a link to m2k losing to a ganon? much appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcLoSFcRPXY

 

[Gre ninja'd]

i dont know what to think other than out of all the top teirs shiek has the most obvious weaknesses.

Shiek only has trouble killing, and even then it's not that bad considering how fast she can rack up damage.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'm surprised someone who lives in Dallas is saying Diddy isn't top tier when Diddy is dominating his area.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Shiek only has trouble killing, and even then it's not that bad considering how fast she can rack up damage.

with a mechanic like rage that much more of a problem than u think.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I haven't seen talk about Olimar is a while, anyone wanna talk about him in the current meta?

I think he's got a serious problem against almost all of the characters we're calling really strong right now because they either outspeed him, or just plain can kill his pikmin if he throws them at them. I feel like he has some serious tools, but if you punish him trying to grab you or just plain kill off his pikmin.

Am I just missing something herd? I don't think he's super low like some people has said, maybe near middle but does he have something to make him viable that I'm just missing?

 

[Ryu_Ken]

The only reason I see Olimar as very low because his defense is pretty bad (small weight and a predictable recovery to name a few). W/o his Pikmin and space, he his practically defenseless.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Except Pikmin Pluck is faster than in Brawl so.

 

[Locke 06]

The only reason I see Olimar as very low because his defense is pretty bad (small weight and a predictable recovery to name a few). W/o his Pikmin and space, he his practically defenseless.

He can act out of up-B/interrupt it at any time with his quick aerials. His recovery isn't awful. (Not great, but not awful)

 

[Flamecircle]

I haven't seen talk about Olimar is a while, anyone wanna talk about him in the current meta?

I think he's got a serious problem against almost all of the characters we're calling really strong right now because they either outspeed him, or just plain can kill his pikmin if he throws them at them. I feel like he has some serious tools, but if you punish him trying to grab you or just plain kill off his pikmin.

Am I just missing something herd? I don't think he's super low like some people has said, maybe near middle but does he have something to make him viable that I'm just missing?

I said this a while ago, but messing around really enforced my beliefs. Olimar's smashes are reeeeally good. They're safe, cheap, and have long active frames. Pivot smashes are very dangerous, and pivot grabbing is alright as a mixup. It's not a huge deal getting outsped when they'll run into the huge range Olimar has when smashing.

His biggest issue is forcing people to chase him, because he's not great on the approach. His aerials and everything are alright, but they're not amazing like in brawl.

Basically, if you're not in it for the smashes, Olimar isn't worth it, as that's his most unfair aspect.

In that, I'm pretty sure he has a terrible Fox matchup due to how much more rewarding a reflector read is for Fox. The other reflectors are less bad since they have punishment windows.


With customs, he gets a lot better. I know, literally everyone says that about their character, but Olimar can change his side b from an annoyance that constantly gets your pikmin murdered, to a ridiculously fast projectile with varying angles of throw. Instead of clinging and being mostly useless unless that pikmin is white, they deal 5% on the main colors, 8% on purple like usual, and 3% on white.

I'm preeeetty sure that's great damage for a projectile, given the range and speed. Even white is good in my opinion, since it gets thrown way faster and further, and throws off the timing unless the opponent is watching your pikmin really closely somehow.

But even if it didn't do great damage, it does one super important thing- Olimar now has a real way to force an approach. Nobody's afraid of Olimar's default sideb. A pikmin gets on them, they retreat and murder that pikmin. With a good projectile, Olimar outcamps a lot of the cast, and they need to chase him- which is fantastic, because approaching enemies are the easiest to hit with his smashes, and works with what I think his gameplan is.

 

[AvariceX]

Are Pikmin still immune to damage from their own element like in Brawl (red immune to PK-fire, etc.)? Because that was really dumb.

 

[Shaya]

Gah I can't keep up with all these people choosing to post tier lists for some reason, ughhh. I will (as I catch up) destroy every single one that happens though, don't you worry, I'd recommend people just don't reply to them.

Any who, Diddy Kong though. *shudder*
I haven't been keeping up with this thread recently. I'm now in the USA.

I would say this game is split up by

S: Diddy, Sheik
A: Various characters we've all heard of
B: Pretty good characters we've heard of

C: Something to cover in between.
D: Super underrepresented / needs love

I would speculate the characters in the C/D region are:


Although I put G&W here; he's the one character who janks top tiers in beautiful ways; someone needs to main him at high level

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Pretty hopeful will eventually get more love and start dominating. Same for .
too?

 

[AvariceX]

Pretty hopeful will eventually get more love and start dominating. Same for .
too?

DK just got 2nd at what I believe was the largest North American Wii-U tournament so far (maybe 2nd largest after Collision X; I'm not aware of any other big tournaments that have happened in the last 2 weeks since Wii U release).

Link got hit huge with the 1.04 patch. I had a lot of faith in him to rise up before that but now he just doesn't do anything special. Z-air, bombs, ftilt, and jab -> spin are the only things about him that stand out to me.

Wario just isn't popular yet. I imagine that will change when everyone realizes he is actually good. Same thing happened in Brawl. He's just not an appealing character for most people playing a new game with a ton of new characters and rebalanced old characters when he is basically the same.

 

[Blue Banana]

Are Pikmin still immune to damage from their own element like in Brawl (red immune to PK-fire, etc.)? Because that was really dumb.

Reds, yellows, and blues are still immune to their respective element.

 

[Ffamran]

Was this always like in the past SSBs where some characters' Bairs are incredibly powerful moves?

Let's see, Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Falco, Shulk?, and Zelda are the ones I know off the top of my head that have really powerful Bairs. I think Toon Link is another. I'm talking about early to mid kill ones not ones like Ike's who's Bair will instant KO at higher percents.

In Brawl, I remember people saying Wolf's Bair was incredible - it now belongs to Falco in both function and form. I don't remember Melee or 64 because I was either too young or it was too long since I played.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I would speculate the characters in the C/D region are:


Although I put G&W here; he's the one character who janks top tiers in beautiful ways; someone needs to main him at high level

IDK about DK, Will's been showing us all the Kong power, but maybe. I think the ones that stand out as legitimately like underrated even though they're probably alright are: Falco, Palutena, Link, DK, Bowser, and G&W. Falco ESPECIALLY, good lord.

If G&W really does jank the top tiers in such ways, I hope and I do mean HOPE that everybody who mains a low tier or mid tier just randomly has a pocket G&W now lol.

 

[NairWizard]

Gah I can't keep up with all these people choosing to post tier lists for some reason, ughhh. I will (as I catch up) destroy every single one that happens though, don't you worry, I'd recommend people just don't reply to them.

Thank you based Shaya.

Recommending that you keep @DanGR 's tier list though. Was an exceptionally good post, imo.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Thank you based Shaya.

Recommending that you keep @DanGR 's tier list though. Was an exceptionally good post, imo.

Posting in rapid succession to second this. Seemed like less of a tier list and more of a viability/general knowledge chart.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Although I put G&W here; he's the one character who janks top tiers in beautiful ways; someone needs to main him at high level

I'm really curious, how does Game and Watch do it?

 

[Kodachi]

Robin will reach top tier status. Just wait.

 

[kyxsune]

I'm really curious, how does Game and Watch do it?

From experience, he neutralizes your projectile game and makes it his, and his frames + hitboxes make approaching him a chore. Though I'm certain someone else can further elaborate.

@ Kodachi

Get comfortable it may take a while.

 

[Shaya]

I'm really curious, how does Game and Watch do it?

Chef is good. Dash attack is good.
Uair is very good.
Grab game is good.
Getting kills is hard.

Up air out of shield though.

 

[Ffamran]

Robin will reach top tier status. Just wait.

It'll take a lot of Master and Second Seals, though.

IDK about DK, Will's been showing us all the Kong power, but maybe. I think the ones that stand out as legitimately like underrated even though they're probably alright are: Falco, Palutena, Link, DK, Bowser, and G&W. Falco ESPECIALLY, good lord.

If G&W really does jank the top tiers in such ways, I hope and I do mean HOPE that everybody who mains a low tier or mid tier just randomly has a pocket G&W now lol.

Don't forget Meta Knight. From what I heard, he's dangerous if you write him off. He's not broken, but he's definitely someone to watch.

 

[Kodachi]

Nope, Robin has the best edge guarding mechanics of any character I have played so far and has an incredible control game. While he may not survive as well in a melee paced game, the rock, paper, scissors element of this smash falls stacked in his favor, as he can essentially pull out both rock & scissors at the same time. Just watch & wait. This goes double for doubles thanks to the stun.

 

[X3I]

Well, if you say G&W is good against top tiers (and he is, especially against Ness, Lucario, Sonic... and most, like Rosalina are even match-ups)... Why do you put him low tier ? That makes no sense !

 

[Esquire]

PAST POSTS:
Mii Brawler

Okay, now that one of my finals is down and I have some free time, time for another character impression post! I'll attach my previous analyses to the top of these posts from here on out as well. Today's post will be about the only captain in this game that's qualified to lead an entire army (sorry Falcon).


PIT

PROS

• Has an impressive set of tools to work with, including a projectile, two reflectors, two recovery moves, good normals, and good throws.
• One of the best gimpers in the game. Four jumps (three in the air), aerials that stretch outwards and away from his body, a spike, a projectile that can curve in ridiculous ways, and great recovery options all combine to enable Pit to apply massive pressure offstage.
• His projectile is amazing. Standard Special, his bow, is easy to control and can be charged up for increased speed and damage. Give Pit both a spacing tool and a gimping tool from any section on the stage.
  
• Many of his moves are more than one hit, which enables Pit to frame trap pretty easily. FAir, NAir, UAir, FSmash, USmash and UTilt all hit more than once in the same spot.
• Transition from Brawl to SSB4 has given Pit a noticeable buff in reach, particularly on his FTilt and FSmash. FTilt's disjointed hitbox is now particularly effective in a ton of match-ups for spacing. Thus, spacing with Pit is a strength.
  
• Can combo on opponents at low percentage. DThrow combos into FAir, NAir and UAir as well as USmash (on heavier characters). With timing, FAir can link into another FAir easily.
  
• In terms of quantity, has a number of potential kill moves, including all three Smashes, BAir, FAir, UAir, the tip of FTilt, and Side Special.
• Recovery options are better than most of the cast. Up Special is fairly quick, can be directed in a straight line, and spans an incredible distance. Side Special can act as a horizontal recovery and adds super armor to Pit, increasing his defense to gimping.

CONS

• Close-up game is below average. Suffers from a weak jab, a rapid A jab combo that doesn't link well, and an enormous amount of moves that have dead space up close, including his smashes, FAir, DTilt, FTilt, and his Standard Special.
• In terms of quality, struggles to kill opponents at lower percentages. Needs to rack up damage to a specific point for most of his KO options to become viable.
• Noticeable lag on most of his moves, both initially, at the end, and on landing. While not egregious, it's at least noticeable and can open Pit up to close attacks.
• His projectile has drawbacks. A long lag period at the end of the animation means that the amount of arrows Pit can dish out isn't nearly as much as in Brawl, and it also leaves him wide open for a counter-attack. Can't just use his projectile at any time.
• While his recovery options are great in most respects, they have their downsides. Up Special has no windbox or hitbox and can be telegraphed, so it's extremely predictable. It also struggles to ledge snap either at close distances or when Pit is facing away from the ledge. Side Special, on the other hand, is strictly horizontal and has average (at best) distance.
• Due to how his hitboxes works, needs to commit to an attack and space properly. Improper spacing will leave Pit open a multitude of times and can often lead to whiffed attacks with even the slightest of miscalculations, especially regarding aerials.
• Has difficulty returning to flat surfaces when hit up towards the ceiling. No real options for downward attacks outside of DAir, which is laggy on landing. Multi-hit moves become a curse, as they don't complete in animation and are too weak to push back opponents away from Pit. Three jumps help, but Pit struggles mightily here.

NORMALS

• Jab and Dash - First two hits are relatively fast, but weak. Can be used to link into a throw pretty well, especially the first hit. Third hit (non-infinite) pops people into the air at a good height, but again, lacks damage. Third hit (infinite) is pretty poor. Hitbox is small, can be escaped from with ease, and the knockback hit is slow. Arguably the worst infinite ender in the game. Dash attack has been markedly improved in range, recovery is punishable but above average for dash attacks. Good option to punish backwards rolls.
• Tilts - FTilt has become an excellent move. Reaches extremely far and has a big hitbox, with bonus damage and knockback at the tip of the attack. Sourspot damage is low, however. Pit's best option when it comes to spacing, as proper distance often makes this move safe on shield. UTilt is pretty average in damage output and mediocre in knockback, but it has its uses apart from USmash (which many people claim is a superior UTilt, which is not always the case). Hitbox is in front of Pit and on top of Pit, similar to an arc shape, and hits multiple times. Excellent anti-air option. DTilt is surprisingly fast and has surprising distance. Pops people into the air at medium height regardless of percentage. Can't really KO, however. Good "get away from me" tool.
• Smashes - FSmash is strong and has frame trapping potential. Can't spot dodge mindlessly. Distance is deceptively good. Recovery lag, however, makes it unsafe after use and on shield (but not cripplingly so). Sometimes does not link properly, especially on smaller targets, so be wary. DSmash is an excellent down smash attack, with good damage and average knockback. Fast, can space out opponents quickly. Can be safe if timed correctly. USmash is a good option, although not exceptional. Good knockback, but hitbox is fairly tight as a vertical option. Can be used to punish bad airdodges or as a punish for a potential KO opportunity.
• Aerials - FAir is a multi-hit move that has surprisingly decent knockback on the last hit. Good option after the opponent has been popped into the air. Strict hitbox, however, and often fails to score all available hits even when seemingly spaced correctly. NAir is a safe "get off me" option that has a nice ending hit. Reach is subpar, but hitbox itself encompasses all of Pit, which makes it a great defensive tool (especially jumping out of shield). BAir has great horizontal reach and is strong overall, although timing is strict and has some pretty punishable landing lag. UAir is a great approach move on opponents trying to return back to surfact. Hitbox has great horizontal coverage for an UAir, and damage/knockback is good. Solid move overall. DAir does good damage, has a semi-circle downward hitbox (which means it's big) and can be used as a spike when the opponent is directly underneath Pit. Bad recovery lag, however, and it's a fairly slow animation compared to Pit's other options.
• Throws - All of Pit's throws are usable and/or good. DThrow is Pit's best option for combos, linking with his various aerials and even some of his ground options. FThrow can potentially be a KO move at higher percentages. BThrow thrusts opponents horizontally and can be somewhat followed by an arrow from Standard Special. UThrow is most likely Pit's least practical move, but it does pop opponents into the air a good distance compared to DThrow.

SPECIALS

• Standard Special - Palutena's Bow: One of the most versatile projectiles in the game. Can be used to space, rack up damage, gimp, and punish. Uncharged arrows are slow and do minor damage, but can be controlled to ridiculous degrees. The longer the charge, the faster the projectile and the greater the damage (although the less controllable the arrows tend to become). Using this projectile correctly means that you're going to be using it to either disrupt an opponent's recovery as he/she tries to return back to the stage or as a means to disrupt opponents on the opposite end of the stage. Can be used as a follow-up to attacks that launch opponents, even guaranteeing some KO's that otherwise would not have been at the edge of boundaries. What this projectile is not, however, is an offensive pressure tool. Is not safe enough to spam, and should not be used against opponent in mid to close range situations. Should be used with caution against opponents with fast running speed, as they can easily dodge arrows and punish the long recovery period.
• Side Special - Upperdash Arm: Similar to Captain Falcon's Raptor Boost, the Upperdash Arm is an offensive lunge with good knockback that pops people into the sky. In the air, Pit travels straight and horizontally, making it a recovery option. Applies Super Armor to Pit, so it's possible to use this as a punish against opponents who like to throw out jabs or close-range projectiles. Can reflect projectiles diagonally. If used for recovery, super armor makes Pit hard to gimp. If whiffed, however, it's either extremely punishable (on land) or has tremendous recovery time (in the air). If it connects, ending lag is drastically reduced and pops Pit into the air (in the air). In the air, even if whiffed, can be acted out of! One of Pit's many potential KO moves, with it being one of the best options at lower percents.
• Down Special - Guardian Orbitars: Unique reflector option that can both send projectiles back to their owners and prevent normals from damaging/hitting Pit. One of the strongest defensive tools in the game, albeit not always the most practical. Can be sometimes used as a means of returning back to surfaces against opposing aerial attacks and ground-to-air options. Does have a small windbox, making it push back some recoveries, and acts as a dead body against some hits, limiting recoveries like Ness' PK Thunder even if the projectile is not reflected. The start-up time is slow for a reflector, however, and the ending lag is punishable. Vulnerable to throws.
• Up Special - Power of Flight: Pit's primary recovery option is a good one. Goes an extremely long distance, practically guaranteeing an opportunity to recovery at almost distance directly below ledges. Best used at its maximum distance, as it guarantees a ledge snap in most situations and makes Pit riskier to gimp. However, the path of the move cannot be altered once a direction is chosen, making it extremely predictable. Furthermore, it doesn't damage opponents nor does it push back opponents, so there is little risk in challenging the recovery directly upon return to platforms.

CHARACTERS THAT PARTICULARLY GIVE PIT TROUBLE

• SONIC: Sonic is extremely fast, can cancel out weak arrows with his Spin Dash, has excellent close quarters options, and has a hard time being zoned out thanks to his numerous mobility options. Aerials often clash with Pit's, but has a better time keeping Pit in the air than vice versa.
• FOX: The Spacies gave Pit major issues in Brawl, and this game is no different. Pit does have a new option in FTilt to help keep Fox away, but Fox's combination of speed, a reflector, and superior close quarters game makes it hard for Pit to settle down and zone out Fox. Fox's improved recovery also hinders Pit's Gimping potential to a degree.
• LITTLE MAC: This is a really weird match-up. On the ground, Pit can actually hold his own and space out Little Mac pretty well. If you knock up horizontally offstage, Pit can easily gimp him off and recover. Sounds one-sided. However, good Little Macs will simply pop Pit up into the air and force him to land, punishing the landing. Pit has almost zero answers to this approach, meaning that on flat surfaces like FD and the Omega forms, Little Mac gives Pit a panic attack. Need to pick a stage with platforms for this to be a competitive match-up for Pit.
• FALCO: I personally feel that Falco has an even better match-up against Pit compared to Fox. Falco's reflector is even harder to combat thanks to its offensive hitbox and spacing properties. Falco is much harder to space out, as he too can play the middle game fairly well. Aerial options also always seem to trump Pit's. Might be Pit's hardest match-up.
• KIRBY: While Kirby isn't a top threat generally, the combination of Kirby's strong close options, small body frame and hard to read jumping make Kirby a pain for Pit. Most of Pit's attacks will often fail to either connect or finish (particularly FTilt and FSmash) thanks to Kirby's size, and because of Pit's lack of early-game KO options, Kirby stays alive longer than he should.
• DUCK HUNT (DUO): On the complete opposite side of the spectrum, DHD simply has a better zoning game than Pit. If Pit cannot excel at zoning out, he has to rely on his FTilt and aerials to try and poke, which DHD punishes extremely well with his own disjointed hitboxes and superior grab game. Pit has some serious issues trying to approach DHD and struggles to get any kind of zoning game going.

 

[Chuva]

Well, if you say G&W is good against top tiers (and he is, especially against Ness, Lucario, Sonic... and most, like Rosalina are even match-ups)... Why do you put him low tier ? That makes no sense !

It actually seems to be a tier list based mostly on representation rather than one purely based on power.

I'd love to see a high level Meta Knight, he has so much potential post-1.0.4 now that his offstage game has been buffed.

 

[Shaya]

Well, if you say G&W is good against top tiers (and he is, especially against Ness, Lucario, Sonic... and most, like Rosalina are even match-ups)... Why do you put him low tier ? That makes no sense !

It's janky, and the weaknesses that exist are very debilitating.

 

[kyxsune]

PAST POSTS:
Mii Brawler

Okay, now that one of my finals is down and I have some free time, time for another character impression post! I'll attach my previous analyses to the top of these posts from here on out as well. Today's post will be about the only captain in this game that's qualified to lead an entire army (sorry Falcon).


PIT

PROS

• Has an impressive set of tools to work with, including a projectile, two reflectors, two recovery moves, good normals, and good throws.
• One of the best gimpers in the game. Four jumps (three in the air), aerials that stretch outwards and away from his body, a spike, a projectile that can curve in ridiculous ways, and great recovery options all combine to enable Pit to apply massive pressure offstage.
• His projectile is amazing. Standard Special, his bow, is easy to control and can be charged up for increased speed and damage. Give Pit both a spacing tool and a gimping tool from any section on the stage.
  
• Many of his moves are more than one hit, which enables Pit to frame trap pretty easily. FAir, NAir, UAir, FSmash, USmash and UTilt all hit more than once in the same spot.
• Transition from Brawl to SSB4 has given Pit a noticeable buff in reach, particularly on his FTilt and FSmash. FTilt's disjointed hitbox is now particularly effective in a ton of match-ups for spacing. Thus, spacing with Pit is a strength.
  
• Can combo on opponents at low percentage. DThrow combos into FAir, NAir and UAir as well as USmash (on heavier characters). With timing, FAir can link into another FAir easily.
  
• In terms of quantity, has a number of potential kill moves, including all three Smashes, BAir, FAir, UAir, the tip of FTilt, and Side Special.
• Recovery options are better than most of the cast. Up Special is fairly quick, can be directed in a straight line, and spans an incredible distance. Side Special can act as a horizontal recovery and adds super armor to Pit, increasing his defense to gimping.

CONS

• Close-up game is below average. Suffers from a weak jab, a rapid A jab combo that doesn't link well, and an enormous amount of moves that have dead space up close, including his smashes, FAir, DTilt, FTilt, and his Standard Special.
• In terms of quality, struggles to kill opponents at lower percentages. Needs to rack up damage to a specific point for most of his KO options to become viable.
• Noticeable lag on most of his moves, both initially, at the end, and on landing. While not egregious, it's at least noticeable and can open Pit up to close attacks.
• His projectile has drawbacks. A long lag period at the end of the animation means that the amount of arrows Pit can dish out isn't nearly as much as in Brawl, and it also leaves him wide open for a counter-attack. Can't just use his projectile at any time.
• While his recovery options are great in most respects, they have their downsides. Up Special has no windbox or hitbox and can be telegraphed, so it's extremely predictable. It also struggles to ledge snap either at close distances or when Pit is facing away from the ledge. Side Special, on the other hand, is strictly horizontal and has average (at best) distance.
• Due to how his hitboxes works, needs to commit to an attack and space properly. Improper spacing will leave Pit open a multitude of times and can often lead to whiffed attacks with even the slightest of miscalculations, especially regarding aerials.
• Has difficulty returning to flat surfaces when hit up towards the ceiling. No real options for downward attacks outside of DAir, which is laggy on landing. Multi-hit moves become a curse, as they don't complete in animation and are too weak to push back opponents away from Pit. Three jumps help, but Pit struggles mightily here.

NORMALS

• Jab and Dash - First two hits are relatively fast, but weak. Can be used to link into a throw pretty well, especially the first hit. Third hit (non-infinite) pops people into the air at a good height, but again, lacks damage. Third hit (infinite) is pretty poor. Hitbox is small, can be escaped from with ease, and the knockback hit is slow. Arguably the worst infinite ender in the game. Dash attack has been markedly improved in range, recovery is punishable but above average for dash attacks. Good option to punish backwards rolls.
• Tilts - FTilt has become an excellent move. Reaches extremely far and has a big hitbox, with bonus damage and knockback at the tip of the attack. Sourspot damage is low, however. Pit's best option when it comes to spacing, as proper distance often makes this move safe on shield. UTilt is pretty average in damage output and mediocre in knockback, but it has its uses apart from USmash (which many people claim is a superior UTilt, which is not always the case). Hitbox is in front of Pit and on top of Pit, similar to an arc shape, and hits multiple times. Excellent anti-air option. DTilt is surprisingly fast and has surprising distance. Pops people into the air at medium height regardless of percentage. Can't really KO, however. Good "get away from me" tool.
• Smashes - FSmash is strong and has frame trapping potential. Can't spot dodge mindlessly. Distance is deceptively good. Recovery lag, however, makes it unsafe after use and on shield (but not cripplingly so). Sometimes does not link properly, especially on smaller targets, so be wary. DSmash is an excellent down smash attack, with good damage and average knockback. Fast, can space out opponents quickly. Can be safe if timed correctly. USmash is a good option, although not exceptional. Good knockback, but hitbox is fairly tight as a vertical option. Can be used to punish bad airdodges or as a punish for a potential KO opportunity.
• Aerials - FAir is a multi-hit move that has surprisingly decent knockback on the last hit. Good option after the opponent has been popped into the air. Strict hitbox, however, and often fails to score all available hits even when seemingly spaced correctly. NAir is a safe "get off me" option that has a nice ending hit. Reach is subpar, but hitbox itself encompasses all of Pit, which makes it a great defensive tool (especially jumping out of shield). BAir has great horizontal reach and is strong overall, although timing is strict and has some pretty punishable landing lag. UAir is a great approach move on opponents trying to return back to surfact. Hitbox has great horizontal coverage for an UAir, and damage/knockback is good. Solid move overall. DAir does good damage, has a semi-circle downward hitbox (which means it's big) and can be used as a spike when the opponent is directly underneath Pit. Bad recovery lag, however, and it's a fairly slow animation compared to Pit's other options.
• Throws - All of Pit's throws are usable and/or good. DThrow is Pit's best option for combos, linking with his various aerials and even some of his ground options. FThrow can potentially be a KO move at higher percentages. BThrow thrusts opponents horizontally and can be somewhat followed by an arrow from Standard Special. UThrow is most likely Pit's least practical move, but it does pop opponents into the air a good distance compared to DThrow.

SPECIALS

• Standard Special - Palutena's Bow: One of the most versatile projectiles in the game. Can be used to space, rack up damage, gimp, and punish. Uncharged arrows are slow and do minor damage, but can be controlled to ridiculous degrees. The longer the charge, the faster the projectile and the greater the damage (although the less controllable the arrows tend to become). Using this projectile correctly means that you're going to be using it to either disrupt an opponent's recovery as he/she tries to return back to the stage or as a means to disrupt opponents on the opposite end of the stage. Can be used as a follow-up to attacks that launch opponents, even guaranteeing some KO's that otherwise would not have been at the edge of boundaries. What this projectile is not, however, is an offensive pressure tool. Is not safe enough to spam, and should not be used against opponent in mid to close range situations. Should be used with caution against opponents with fast running speed, as they can easily dodge arrows and punish the long recovery period.
• Side Special - Upperdash Arm: Similar to Captain Falcon's Raptor Boost, the Upperdash Arm is an offensive lunge with good knockback that pops people into the sky. In the air, Pit travels straight and horizontally, making it a recovery option. Applies Super Armor to Pit, so it's possible to use this as a punish against opponents who like to throw out jabs or close-range projectiles. Can reflect projectiles diagonally. If used for recovery, super armor makes Pit hard to gimp. If whiffed, however, it's either extremely punishable (on land) or has tremendous recovery time (in the air). If it connects, ending lag is drastically reduced and pops Pit into the air (in the air). In the air, even if whiffed, can be acted out of! One of Pit's many potential KO moves, with it being one of the best options at lower percents.
• Down Special - Guardian Orbitars: Unique reflector option that can both send projectiles back to their owners and prevent normals from damaging/hitting Pit. One of the strongest defensive tools in the game, albeit not always the most practical. Can be sometimes used as a means of returning back to surfaces against opposing aerial attacks and ground-to-air options. Does have a small windbox, making it push back some recoveries, and acts as a dead body against some hits, limiting recoveries like Ness' PK Thunder even if the projectile is not reflected. The start-up time is slow for a reflector, however, and the ending lag is punishable. Vulnerable to throws.
• Up Special - Power of Flight: Pit's primary recovery option is a good one. Goes an extremely long distance, practically guaranteeing an opportunity to recovery at almost distance directly below ledges. Best used at its maximum distance, as it guarantees a ledge snap in most situations and makes Pit riskier to gimp. However, the path of the move cannot be altered once a direction is chosen, making it extremely predictable. Furthermore, it doesn't damage opponents nor does it push back opponents, so there is little risk in challenging the recovery directly upon return to platforms.

CHARACTERS THAT PARTICULARLY GIVE PIT TROUBLE

• SONIC: Sonic is extremely fast, can cancel out weak arrows with his Spin Dash, has excellent close quarters options, and has a hard time being zoned out thanks to his numerous mobility options. Aerials often clash with Pit's, but has a better time keeping Pit in the air than vice versa.
• FOX: The Spacies gave Pit major issues in Brawl, and this game is no different. Pit does have a new option in FTilt to help keep Fox away, but Fox's combination of speed, a reflector, and superior close quarters game makes it hard for Pit to settle down and zone out Fox. Fox's improved recovery also hinders Pit's Gimping potential to a degree.
• LITTLE MAC: This is a really weird match-up. On the ground, Pit can actually hold his own and space out Little Mac pretty well. If you knock up horizontally offstage, Pit can easily gimp him off and recover. Sounds one-sided. However, good Little Macs will simply pop Pit up into the air and force him to land, punishing the landing. Pit has almost zero answers to this approach, meaning that on flat surfaces like FD and the Omega forms, Little Mac gives Pit a panic attack. Need to pick a stage with platforms for this to be a competitive match-up for Pit.
• FALCO: I personally feel that Falco has an even better match-up against Pit compared to Fox. Falco's reflector is even harder to combat thanks to its offensive hitbox and spacing properties. Falco is much harder to space out, as he too can play the middle game fairly well. Aerial options also always seem to trump Pit's. Might be Pit's hardest match-up.
• KIRBY: While Kirby isn't a top threat generally, the combination of Kirby's strong close options, small body frame and hard to read jumping make Kirby a pain for Pit. Most of Pit's attacks will often fail to either connect or finish (particularly FTilt and FSmash) thanks to Kirby's size, and because of Pit's lack of early-game KO options, Kirby stays alive longer than he should.
• DUCK HUNT (DUO): On the complete opposite side of the spectrum, DHD simply has a better zoning game than Pit. If Pit cannot excel at zoning out, he has to rely on his FTilt and aerials to try and poke, which DHD punishes extremely well with his own disjointed hitboxes and superior grab game. Pit has some serious issues trying to approach DHD and struggles to get any kind of zoning game going.

Add Zss and shiek to the list that give him trouble. their Down B's bypass his projectiles and have priority over a lagging reflector. Plus they have good off stage games.

 

[Ticker]

The only reason I see Olimar as very low because his defense is pretty bad (small weight and a predictable recovery to name a few). W/o his Pikmin and space, he his practically defenseless.

And the stupidity of having his smash attacks being reflect-able.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I think it's pretty commonly agreed for the moment that Diddy is the best char in the game. But those d-throw nerfs are ultimately inevitable next patch so it's only for now.

to be honest I would rather have down throw stay and weaken the power of up air

i dont know what to think other than out of all the top teirs shiek has the most obvious weaknesses.

I think has more tech is developed she might fall a little.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

It actually seems to be a tier list based mostly on representation rather than one purely based on power.

I'd love to see a high level Meta Knight, he has so much potential post-1.0.4 now that his offstage game has been buffed.

http://youtu.be/7BwnkKoGFSE?t=1h24m
A match to consider if you have not seen it yet.

 

[Nobie]

Chef is good. Dash attack is good.
Uair is very good.
Grab game is good.
Getting kills is hard.

Up air out of shield though.

In case people missed the Smash @ Xanadu hype from GimR and G&W.

 

[Smog Frog]

its hard to take advantage of olimars poor defense when you cant approach the little quarterman

 

[Chuva]

http://youtu.be/7BwnkKoGFSE?t=1h24m
A match to consider if you have not seen it yet.

Although it seems AD didn't know the matchup well, those UpB reads and tornado setups were glorious.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Gah I can't keep up with all these people choosing to post tier lists for some reason, ughhh. I will (as I catch up) destroy every single one that happens though, don't you worry, I'd recommend people just don't reply to them.

Any who, Diddy Kong though. *shudder*
I haven't been keeping up with this thread recently. I'm now in the USA.

I would say this game is split up by

S: Diddy, Sheik
A: Various characters we've all heard of
B: Pretty good characters we've heard of

C: Something to cover in between.
D: Super underrepresented / needs love

I would speculate the characters in the C/D region are:


Although I put G&W here; he's the one character who janks top tiers in beautiful ways; someone needs to main him at high level

*insert argument that if X character is bad THUS BALANCE*

I do believe G&W is technically bottom 5, mostly just because he dies hilariously fast. Still has good juggles and edgeguards and mobility though.

 

[deepseadiva]

So, since I'm apparently "the least productive and least supportive" poster on here, I thought I'd flesh out some impressions on a few of the characters I play. This is all pre-custom legalization.

On:
Playing because of KO Punch.

I wanted to start with Mac because he's a standard defining character. There is so much power here, I'm curios: if you're not playing a character without a projectile, why not play Mac? Either your opponent makes you too uncomfortable recovering (fair enough), or Mac is clearly the most rewarding choice. He's so overwhelming, I consider him the line that will define tournament viable characters and players.

On:
Playing her because of Mechakoopa.

Mechakoopa is just such an interesting item. Something that threatens and walks around independently on its own is a really unique character trait, and something no one else in the cast has. Kart gives the character a lot of needed mobility and speed options. Her options in the air and floor are all really great IMHO. I know some people were complaining about them, but I like all the range, speed, and disjoint on the fork and bowling ball attacks.

She's bad though. There's a large weakness here to any projectile Kart can't plow through. Which makes her slow. And if you wanted to play a character that's slowed by projectiles, you'll have more incentive to Little Mac for a KO Punch, or Marth for a disjoint, or Bowser Senior for the weight and power. She's interesting and tricky, but not versatile and strong versus all of the cast like a top tier would be.

On:
Playing her because of Fair.

The sword archetype has been described as harmful to the game. Not having to risk your body when placing attacks is a huge advantage, which is why these characters can be so powerful. They've been individually balanced for it though, and in Marth/Lucina's case with a lack of projectile and a light weight. Abusing their sword is what makes these characters so good versus characters that do have to stick their necks out - I would choose Lucina versus Mario, Falcon, Charizard, etc. If you're confident enough in being able to swat these characters out over and over. The edguarding power of the sword is also really overwhelming.

I don't know if you should choose this character against spammers though. The runspeed is a good tool, and so is the reward on hit, so Lucina can technically deal with campers. I would switch to a character with a shine of some kind though (no need to struggle). Also, if you're looking for a character with range, Diddy, Rosalina, Lucario, all offer something comparable - with a lot of added bonuses. And of course Marth. You use Lucina purely for flavor.

On:
Playing her because of Reflector.

Reflector almost totally negates camping strategies, and almost entire characters on its own, which is why Palutena makes for such a good game 1 blind pick character - no unexpected jank. Fox owns the same thing, along with the great mobility (both with great run speed and jumps). Palutena becomes a worthwhile pick on her own for a few enticing reasons:

1) exceptional grab reward with dthrow combos
2) exceptional juggle ability with long lasting aerials uair and nair
3) invincible clashes with bair and dash attack

Along with counter, the dair spike, and Auto-Reticule, she can pepper hits and kills just about everywhere. Very quality character, but with no completely overwhelming trait - which is why I think people would gravitate towards something more obviously broken like Lucario, or Sonic or whatever.

Also: notably crazy with customs. Waiting for that day to come. xD

On:
Playing her because of Float.

Float is and will always be ridiculous. Ignoring gravity on command is whack, and being able to abuse it to throw out the whack aerials on whatever level you want is also whack. She's very scary when allowed to enter any kind of inner bubble, and worse she's not incapable of killing. She's slow as hell though, which weakens her enough that characters like Samus could go at least even with her. She's a slow skipping behemoth, but she'll probably always have problems with the ninja characters and Sonic and anyone who can run circles around her.

On:
Playing her because of everything.

There's so much range on this character which is why she's been obviously such a good pick. Gravitational Pull covers a huge weakness she would have otherwise, and Luma by itself eats so many peppered projectiles Rosalina doesn't suffer from some common problems other characters crawl through mud to get through. Her air mobility is horrid though, and having to fall with her is a terrible ordeal. Coupled with her lightweight, I feel like she can dominate, but at the same time lose matches to rogue smash attacks.

Nitpicking though. Her range is going to keep her in top five probably forever.

On:
Playing her because of Pocket and Tree and Lloyd.

In the right matchup, Pocket is the best move in the game. Stealing fully charged anything is Christmas. Also makes the Villiger ditto the best matchup in the whole game. Tree turns characters with bad recoveries into Little Macs. LLoyd is constantly needing to be addressed. Villager, like Little Mac, I think is a very polarizing character. Some of the cast just cannot consistently deal.

I would consider her in the top percentile.

On:
Playing her because of Sun Salutation and mobility.

What sucks about Wii Fit Trainer is her total lack of disjoint. This is remedied with probably the best spammy projectile in the game. And paired with the run speed, I'm voting Wii Fit for best camper. But there's a big weakness here to short characters, and anyone with a disjoint. She does have a bunch of little things though:

1) her ball stall in the air
2) Deep Breathing giving opponents incentive to approach
3) her ankle jab that hits behind her (1000% more important than the burying thing)
4) a plethora of spikes
5) Snake's bair

A bunch of cute things. I might call her the Melee Mewtwo of this game, but honestly... honestly... I think she just needs an abusive player to pick her up. Someone who does not at all worry about approaching, is constantly charging and healing, and only sticks Wii Fits limbs out when it rewards her with one of her stage-carrying combos. No one really wants to play like that, but maybe one day.