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Official Character Competitive Impressions - Tourneys, Tiers, Theories, Tactics

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wedl!!

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"When is Puff going to be in a position to punish much of anything?" Not very often, despite being a character who is supposed to be good at baiting impatient players. Most of the time you aren't taking much damage from a Puff to really consider it a punish, more of a tickle.

Just another reason Jigglypuff's design runs counter to itself. I still can't see why people ever thought she was better than low tier.
 
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D

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"When is Puff going to be in a position to punish much of anything?" Not very often, despite being a character who is supposed to be good at baiting impatient players. Most of the time you aren't taking much damage from a Puff to really consider it a punish, more of a tickle.

Just another reason Jigglypuff's design runs counter to itself. Seriously still can't see why people ever thought this character was better than low tier.
Real talk, does Jigglypuff even solidly beat anybody in this game? I can't think of anyone where she's got the clear advantage bar vanilla :4miibrawl:.
 
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Yonder

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The performance Big D had with :4dedede: against ZeRo's :4sheik: at NWMDZ today just reminded me how crippling having such a large hurtbox and falling speed is. Like, legitimately depressing. Big D could literally do nothing that entire match and it was more or less the character holding him back rather than his skill. Why this character has gotten literally zero attention in balance patches for almost the entire year this game has been out baffles me.
Big D is the best player in my region, he also uses Mario. Why he chose to not use him idk cause he's a DDD/Mario main and #1 in the PR rankings here. Incredible DDD though, gotta watch that thing in action yourself when played by Big D. Only reason I dont think DDD is a super low tier is because of him. [Low tier, but not bottom 5.]
 

bc1910

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I would wager that D3 has a high win rate in all the online modes, including 1v1. Even slight lag can make Gordos extremely hard to deal with. In Japan, he's usually ranked around mid-tier with the likes of Bowser Jr anyway, so offline he's not thought of badly either.
 

ぱみゅ

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DDD gets results because it's one of those characters that is very dangerous when you don't know the matchup: huge attacks that are difficult to adapt to their range, has a couple fast-ish powerful moves such as Bair and Dsmash, and sometimes Gordos scare off people.
Then when you know it though, you know you can bait a lot of his stuff and punish, he has close to zero approach options and he cant't really wall people reliably either. Imo he's at best at the top of the low tier.
:196:
 

Uncle Tonkle

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Real talk, does Jigglypuff even solidly beat anybody in this game? I can't think of anyone where she's got the clear advantage over bar vanilla :4miibrawl:.
I actually really like the Jiggs vs Falcon and ZSS matchup. Low crouch and short hop airdodge make it really hard for them to get a grab and since Jiggs is so floaty and light it's hard for them to get their big combos if they do get one. Also Falcon is super easy to edgeguard for Puff, he should be dead every time he goes offstage. Mixing up crouching and shielding a bit makes it really hard for them to get on the offensive and if they whiff post 60 it's a rest. The one thing Puff struggles with is beating them cleanly air to air, which makes ZSS 55-45 and Falcon 6-4 if you ask me.

All other matchups imo are even at best though, it's rough.
 
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Mario766

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There's no way Jiggs beats ZSS when ZSS doesn't even need a proper up-b to kill Jiggs ala the clip posted earlier.

The short stature just means ZSS has to play differently.
 

Amadeus9

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DDD gets results because it's one of those characters that is very dangerous when you don't know the matchup: huge attacks that are difficult to adapt to their range, has a couple fast-ish powerful moves such as Bair and Dsmash, and sometimes Gordos scare off people.
Then when you know it though, you know you can bait a lot of his stuff and punish, he has close to zero approach options and he cant't really wall people reliably either. Imo he's at best at the top of the low tier.
:196:
Had a situation like this, played against a decent d3 a couple weeks ago and ended up dropping the the set. Came back next week after figuring out the matchup and bopped him in bracket twice. He's got a sort of surprise factor that goes away after you fight one once or twice.
 
D

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Had a situation like this, played against a decent d3 a couple weeks ago and ended up dropping the the set. Came back next week after figuring out the matchup and bopped him in bracket twice. He's got a sort of surprise factor that goes away after you fight one once or twice.
This. He's great fun to use against people who lack experience in the MU. Otherwise? A much different and much more stressful story. It's why I'm mostly hesitant to use him consistently in tournaments and go for using :4wario: or :4yoshi: instead.
 

Wintropy

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DDD gets results because it's one of those characters that is very dangerous when you don't know the matchup: huge attacks that are difficult to adapt to their range, has a couple fast-ish powerful moves such as Bair and Dsmash, and sometimes Gordos scare off people.
Then when you know it though, you know you can bait a lot of his stuff and punish, he has close to zero approach options and he cant't really wall people reliably either. Imo he's at best at the top of the low tier.
:196:
I can confirm this from personal experience. I used to swear blind that Dedede was one of Pit's worst matchups (I was young and naive, don't judge me), so when I went to a tournament with a really good Dedede there, I was bodied every time. I didn't know what to do when faced with that caliber of Dedede play and I was beaten in the psychological battle before I even picked up the controller. Even the best player in the scene was beaten by him, and he confessed that he didn't respect the character and "kept walking into his moves".

I ended up meeting him on For Glory a few months on and he gave me some good advice for the matchup. He told me that Dedede's pretty easy to beat if you know what you're doing, just that I was getting impatient and frustrated with being unable to play my own game. He's definitely a character that will bop you if you don't know how to fight him; that and Gordos become incredibly irritating mobile walls in lag, so he's got online results disproportionate to his offline tourney results. At high level, there is no reason why you shouldn't know the matchup and be able to beat him, he has nothing to threaten most of the characters in the game if you know how he fights.

And wow Amadeus9 Amadeus9 had basically the same story, ha ha~
 
D

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Since ZeRo is working on that Dedede analysis video, it makes me fear what he'll have to say about him (even though it's inevitable). Especially since he bopped Big D pretty bad last night. :c He played the MU so well, it makes me wonder if he's fought any other Dededes in the past.
 
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TriTails

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What makes Luigi's current Fireballs bad?

Yes, I am aware of the 3 frame increase in lag, yet I've still seen it lead into a few things here and there, so I can't see it as THAT bad.
I'm not talking about normal Fireballs. I'm talking about the 2nd custom of Fireballs. The 3 frame of increased end lag did jack to normal Fireballs. The nerf effects were barely noticeable and didn't touched any matchups.

Bouncing Fireballls already had the same FAF as Mario's. It now is basically 0.5 Mario's Fireballs because not only it is laggier, but Luigi doesn't have the aerial mobility to stay mobile while using it. It also zones weaker due to the easier PS and no floatings. A floating Fireball can be an annoyance at times.

What characters, when optimized fully, would probably have the most devastating punish games? Like, if you made one mistake, Which characters would put you in the grave the fastest?
Ryu, ZSS, MK.

Ryu can kill you outta Focus Attack Dash Cancel D-air into Shoryu. The spike also can not be teched on the ground. Get caught in U-tilt strings and you're dead, too. Just... when a Ryu is right in your face and he shouts 'SHORYUKEN' ya know ya are screwed.

The latter two generally will need the right percents to do their U-air strings and Up-B. But then again, Amadeus has warned everybody to not trust anything about MK that is said by a non-MK main, and I'm not, so... take that with a box of salt.

(Let me read your spotdodges or rolls though, lemme show you a fiery uppercut that is even stronger than TRSK. Just sayin')
 
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Y2Kay

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I can confirm this from personal experience. I used to swear blind that Dedede was one of Pit's worst matchups (I was young and naive, don't judge me), so when I went to a tournament with a really good Dedede there, I was bodied every time. I didn't know what to do when faced with that caliber of Dedede play and I was beaten in the psychological battle before I even picked up the controller. Even the best player in the scene was beaten by him, and he confessed that he didn't respect the character and "kept walking into his moves".

I ended up meeting him on For Glory a few months on and he gave me some good advice for the matchup. He told me that Dedede's pretty easy to beat if you know what you're doing, just that I was getting impatient and frustrated with being unable to play my own game. He's definitely a character that will bop you if you don't know how to fight him; that and Gordos become incredibly irritating mobile walls in lag, so he's got online results disproportionate to his offline tourney results. At high level, there is no reason why you shouldn't know the matchup and be able to beat him, he has nothing to threaten most of the characters in the game if you know how he fights.

And wow Amadeus9 Amadeus9 had basically the same story, ha ha~
I swear every Pit main and their momma has a rough time with dedede. It's so weird X_X

:150:
 
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D

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I swear every Pit main and their momma has a rough time with dedede. It's so weird X_X

;150:
Two of my friends main Pit and they used to complain that my Dedede was annoying to fight, lol. They got used to me overtime tho and can beat me pretty solidly nowadays, so I usually go :4link: in the MU 'cos it's really fun for me.
 

Uncle Tonkle

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There's no way Jiggs beats ZSS when ZSS doesn't even need a proper up-b to kill Jiggs ala the clip posted earlier.

The short stature just means ZSS has to play differently.
The ZSSes I face might just be a bit too grab heavy then. The up B is pretty annoying yes, but since I can get rests from whiffs into my airdodge and crouches it just seems like a kill early die early matchup to me. I don't know, it just feels like a matchup in my favor when I play it.
 

adom4

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I can confirm this from personal experience. I used to swear blind that Dedede was one of Pit's worst matchups (I was young and naive, don't judge me), so when I went to a tournament with a really good Dedede there, I was bodied every time. I didn't know what to do when faced with that caliber of Dedede play and I was beaten in the psychological battle before I even picked up the controller. Even the best player in the scene was beaten by him, and he confessed that he didn't respect the character and "kept walking into his moves".

I ended up meeting him on For Glory a few months on and he gave me some good advice for the matchup. He told me that Dedede's pretty easy to beat if you know what you're doing, just that I was getting impatient and frustrated with being unable to play my own game. He's definitely a character that will bop you if you don't know how to fight him; that and Gordos become incredibly irritating mobile walls in lag, so he's got online results disproportionate to his offline tourney results. At high level, there is no reason why you shouldn't know the matchup and be able to beat him, he has nothing to threaten most of the characters in the game if you know how he fights.

And wow Amadeus9 Amadeus9 had basically the same story, ha ha~
Same here, i used to think he went like 7-3 on Ganondorf until i learned how to play the MU.
 

Amadeus9

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I'm not talking about normal Fireballs. I'm talking about the 2nd custom of Fireballs. The 3 frame of increased end lag did jack to normal Fireballs. The nerf effects were barely noticeable and didn't touched any matchups.

Bouncing Fireballls already had the same FAF as Mario's. It now is basically 0.5 Mario's Fireballs because not only it is laggier, but Luigi doesn't have the aerial mobility to stay mobile while using it. It also zones weaker due to the easier PS and no floatings. A floating Fireball can be an annoyance at times.


Ryu, ZSS, MK.

Ryu can kill you outta Focus Attack Dash Cancel D-air into Shoryu. The spike also can not be teched on the ground. Get caught in U-tilt strings and you're dead, too. Just... when a Ryu is right in your face and he shouts 'SHORYUKEN' ya know ya are screwed.

The latter two generally will need the right percents to do their U-air strings and Up-B. But then again, Amadeus has warned everybody to not trust anything about MK that is said by a non-MK main, and I'm not, so... take that with a box of salt.

(Let me read your spotdodges or rolls though, lemme show you a fiery uppercut that is even stronger than TRSK. Just sayin')
;)

What I will say is that the big thing that separates mk from zss is that mk can convert almost any hit in neutral into a jab lock with proper reads, and if you get jab locked below the percent where you start dying to a uair combo, you most likely will die if the mk knows what he's doing. It makes up big time for lacking her neutral tools... though not enough to completely close the gap. Every time I see a zss nair I die a little inside
 

KeithTheGeek

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I think Dedede is has a few too many decent tools to be considered bottom 5, but that is sort of irrelevant anyways because after a certain point the bottom half of the cast will not be seen much, if at all, in tournaments. Bottom 5, bottom 10, bottom 25, it doesn't matter where you place him because he just loses in this meta game. Bad neutral, easy wall and zone, poor mobility, the only thing giving him anywhere near decent results is that he can convert stocks off of a few hits with a good read or two.

IDK I think I might start using like Sonic or something. I can still play the patient game but actually have the speed to catch landings and stuff. Though I do admit I would miss having all of my attacks be big, beefy hitboxes.
 
D

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I think Dedede is has a few too many decent tools to be considered bottom 5, but that is sort of irrelevant anyways because after a certain point the bottom half of the cast will not be seen much, if at all, in tournaments. Bottom 5, bottom 10, bottom 25, it doesn't matter where you place him because he just loses in this meta game. Bad neutral, easy wall and zone, poor mobility, the only thing giving him anywhere near decent results is that he can convert stocks off of a few hits with a good read or two.

IDK I think I might start using like Sonic or something. I can still play the patient game but actually have the speed to catch landings and stuff. Though I do admit I would miss having all of my attacks be big, beefy hitboxes.
If you wanna go to somebody who isn't Dedede, I'd say go for trying out :4yoshi:. He may be unwieldy at first but he has a lot of good tools that you can utilize well. Eggs are a very good projectile and generally effective anti-air, his aerials come out fast and have reasonably big hitboxes, plus he has the best aerial mobility in the game.
 

Mr. ShinyUmbreon

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I swear every Pit main and their momma has a rough time with dedede. It's so weird X_X

:150:
Yeah, as a Pit main, I used to have trouble all the time with Dedede, once I learned the matchup it became super easy though, all you have to do is respect all of his moves and wait for an opening to punish. Also Dedede gets combed very easily.
 

Spinosaurus

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Ryu is the only character that can kill you off a whiff at any time.

If he spotdodges a grab and you're at ~70%...you're dead, really. Who else can do this any time they want?

Ryu's True SRK isn't limited by a timer. It's not bogged down due to a meter mechanic and it's not plagued with a small hitbox and ridiculous endlag. Missing it isn't as consequential as Waft, KO Punch and Rest, and he has it every time he wants to use it. He's also actually a really good character.
 
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FullMoon

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Adding to the Dedede horror stories I've also lost my first offline tournament to one thanks to unfamiliarity with the MU plus tournament nerves.

Though I'm not exactly good at the MU myself now but I guess I'll see how it'll go in my next tournament in December since he's going there too.

But yeah Dedede is a real pain when you don't know the MU.
 

Crudele

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Bear with me here, but if we're talking about early kills off of punishes, can we briefly consider zelda?

The elevator can kill at almost the same percent as SRK, which can be true combo'd off of nair. Not to mention, FW can also be used to punish laggy projectiles from across the stage. Sourspotted aerials (fair, dair) are super easy to jablock missed techs with [which is the biggest "grasping for straws/silver linings" argument for those practically non-existent sweetspot hitboxes :'( ]

Disclaimer: Not saying zelda's good, or that her punish game is better than the likes of zss, ryu, mk, etc. It might be one of her biggest strengths in a sea of flaws, though.
 

C0rvus

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Bear with me here, but if we're talking about early kills off of punishes, can we briefly consider zelda?

The elevator can kill at almost the same percent as SRK, which can be true combo'd off of nair. Not to mention, FW can also be used to punish laggy projectiles from across the stage. Sourspotted aerials (fair, dair) are super easy to jablock missed techs with [which is the biggest "grasping for straws/silver linings" argument for those practically non-existent sweetspot hitboxes :'( ]

Disclaimer: Not saying zelda's good, or that her punish game is better than the likes of zss, ryu, mk, etc. It might be one of her biggest strengths in a sea of flaws, though.
Pretty sure DI messes up the elevator. Even if you can still read and follow their DI, it's still something that hold back its effectiveness. Shoryuken is one fast hit on the ground with invincibility to boot. And missing with FW? That's a stock.
 

Jaguar360

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Bear with me here, but if we're talking about early kills off of punishes, can we briefly consider zelda?

The elevator can kill at almost the same percent as SRK, which can be true combo'd off of nair. Not to mention, FW can also be used to punish laggy projectiles from across the stage. Sourspotted aerials (fair, dair) are super easy to jablock missed techs with [which is the biggest "grasping for straws/silver linings" argument for those practically non-existent sweetspot hitboxes :'( ]

Disclaimer: Not saying zelda's good, or that her punish game is better than the likes of zss, ryu, mk, etc. It might be one of her biggest strengths in a sea of flaws, though.
Agreed. The punish game isn't as strong at low percents since other characters can combo harder for more damage (ZSS, Ryu, MK, Greninja, Ike, DK, Luigi), but the damage from Lighting Kicks, Farore's Wind and other moves is still good and consistent (when sweetspotted of course). Zelda gets really dangerous with her punish game at mid and high percents since LKs and potentially FW (DI mixups :mad:) can kill really early.

The only issues with Zelda's punish game are probably her mobility (which is made up for by horizontal Farore's in a lot of cases) and need for sweetspots on LKs and Farore's. Also worth noting that F-tilt, F-smash, OoS U-smash and grab are consistently strong punish options that can be used as alternatives to the stronger ones depending on what move she is trying to punish.
 

wedl!!

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You know, it's quite ironic people will go from calling Ryu an extremely difficult character (which he isn't) to braindead (which he REALLY isn't) because Ryu mains started showing up to events and doing Ryu stuff.
 

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Pretty sure DI messes up the elevator. Even if you can still read and follow their DI, it's still something that hold back its effectiveness. Shoryuken is one fast hit on the ground with invincibility to boot. And missing with FW? That's a stock.
I agree. Pretty sure I noted her punish game and kill potential isn't as good as ryu's, in preparation for this very response. That's indisputable. She just might be notable when talking about characters with early kill potential off of punishes.
 

L9999

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I'm not the only one with DDD problems. Good. I also got eliminated by one in a tournament and I didn't even know what to do. And good DDDs are hard to come across and more if I barely leave home. And in online DDD is the most annoying thing in history. I'd rather play Dabuz with Ness than playing DDD in online. And really, low tiers only succeed at this point due to the unfamiliarity with the matchup. Unless they were good to begin with they are just gimmicks until you learn everything.
 

wedl!!

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On the subject of Dedede:

What relevant MUs is he even good in? I've been told before that he's not that awful against Rosa (which is hilarious). I've been told he's not that bad against Sonic (also hilarious). The only relevant character I can think of that he does semi-well against is Peach and even then that's not good for him.
 

Pazzo.

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King Dedede is one of those characters that could be amazing, but desperately needs changes/buffs.

I'm sure most of us share that opinion here anyway.
 

Wintropy

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On the subject of Dedede:

What relevant MUs is he even good in? I've been told before that he's not that awful against Rosa (which is hilarious). I've been told he's not that bad against Sonic (also hilarious). The only relevant character I can think of that he does semi-well against is Peach and even then that's not good for him.
Depends on whether you think Pit is relevant.

I don't think it's necessarily even in Dedede's favour, it's just...not a matchup where he gets bodied. Pit has to work extra hard to stay on top of him, mainly because n-air and f-air don't reflect Gordo and that's not okay.

Otherwise I can't think of any. He seems to be more of a player beater than a character beater.
 

meleebrawler

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Dedede loses or goes even in every matchup unless he somehow gets a lead at which point it becomes 6-4 in his favour as he never commits again and lives for obscenely times, racking up a huge amount of rage in the process.
 

Kung Fu Treachery

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One of the things we should try, as a community, to tell new players is that it's abundantly clear that developers only balance certain characters for "serious" 1v1 competitive play. After 3 previous installments, no developer could look at the kits of D3 or Bowser compared to Sheik and ZSS and say "Yeah, these characters will go about even." We know what attributes pay dividends in 1v1, and we know which characters have them. You're free to choose a free for all type character, but you should know what you're getting into.

But I wonder if it has to be this way. Firstly, I have to say that I don't envy the developers for having to balance for casual FFA play. A brief yarn for illustration: When I was a grade-school brat, I played a ton of Melee, in thoroughly casual fashion. In the first three years or so of my career, I don't believe I used the Shield nor the Roll option even once. I had no concept of defense. How could any developer have balanced around a player like me? A good half the gameplay stood before me, and I ignored it entirely. If I were starting out today, I would have no concept of guaranteed combos, or auto-cancels, or most of the subtle things that go into making a character tournament-viable. If Melee Ganon had a few more tricks up his sleeve against Fox at top-level play, my friends probably would have carried on throwing Warlock Punches at me in what I might now identify as the neutral. We'd never have known. The only time I used Shine was after down throw, or to make Samus mains cry. I do, however, give my third-grade self some points for thinking that NTSC Fox's UpSmash was a very silly move. Game balance was not entirely beyond me.

My point is that developers can probably buff heavy hitters for 1v1 play without much upsetting FFA battles, and that they have heretofore been overly cautious in this area. Slow characters are inherently at a disadvantage in gathering items, which could offset any buffs. Furthermore, while Fox isn't going to be getting into the thick of an 8-way battle, that doesn't mean he's a bad FFA character; he only requires a more hit-and-run oriented play style to do well, which nicely accommodates different sorts of players. Not everyone wants to just run in, damn the torpedoes, and do 15% on every hit. Bottom line is, I think it would be much more difficult to ruin FFA than many developers and players think.

If Ganon had a faster jab, or if heavies had better frame data, I truly don't believe that the FFA world would come crashing down. The Smash system is more robust than we give it credit for.

One last Melee memory: While I was ride-or-die with Fox, my elder brother dual-mained Roy and Ganon. Naturally, I chalked up my victories to my superior play skill. I apologize for nothing. I never won a wrestling match my whole childhood, so I took what scraps I could find.
 

Radical Larry

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Dedede's worst MU is Link hands down. Link has the speed, the range and outright nullifies Dedede's Gordo usage with all of his attacks and even benefits from going in headfirst against a Dedede that uses the move. Link has the most combos against Dedede out of any character, for he can string a ridiculously long amount of attacks and not get punished by the penguin until he hits the 70% marker (there are Dededes where I could get up to that amount and they were good ones).

Link's just the character who has the better everything against Dedede. However, his D-Air loses to Dedede's U-Air, but Link's other attacks just win against any of Dedede's attacks. Link can get away from Dedede fast, Link can grab better, Link can hit Dedede from an absurd range.

What does Dedede have against Link? Well, if he can land a grab and a throw or even a U-Tilt, he can start up some combos, but that's just about it. He also has more powerful attacks than Link, albeit they're mostly slower. A good Link would never run into an F-Smash by a Dedede and instead just hit Dedede with a bomb or boomerang.

But what are my regards of this MU? It's honestly a virtually impossible MU for Dedede like I've said in the past. Dedede has extremely hard times getting into Link and barely has any combos against Link whereas Link has no problems going on the offensive and getting combos off Dedede. As soon as Link gets a combo started, Dedede's basically dead. He really has slim chances of getting out thanks to his poor aerial mobility.
 

Mr. ShinyUmbreon

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How is link able to extend a combo for more than like...4-5 hits?

His moves dont flow together all that well
He gets good follow ups out of d-throw, at low and high percents. And his Nair and Bair have follow-ups. And he has set-ups with Bombos. His up-tilt can combo like mario's. Link's combo game is pretty good. Unfortunately he has low mobility, and poor frame data.
 

Nu~

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He gets good follow ups out of d-throw, at low and high percents. And his Nair and Bair have follow-ups. And he has set-ups with Bombos. His up-tilt can combo like mario's. Link's combo game is pretty good. Unfortunately he has low mobility, and poor frame data.
I know that, I just don't know how his combo game is anywhere near what Larry is claiming.
 

bc1910

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Well you heard it here first guys, Link combos D3 better than ZSS.
 

Radical Larry

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How is link able to extend a combo for more than like...4-5 hits?

His moves dont flow together all that well
Well, what Mr. ShinyUmbreon Mr. ShinyUmbreon said is pretty true, but let me explain how this could work against a character like D3 for a moment. If you utilize Link's D-Throw setup, that is one hit, alright? You then utilize U-Tilt, U-Tilt, U-Tilt, U-Smash, then keep stringing U-Air on D3. Since D3 cannot simply get out of the attacks due to his large hitbox size and mobility, Link already has a large combo should he start it up at 0%, and it would end at the 60% to 70% range as long as Link is precise on his timing of the attacks.

After that area of damage, Link would need to use more regular strings of combos including Bomb into any of his aerials, Boomerang > F-Air, Boomerang > N-Air and many D-Tilt to follow-ups. D3 may not be a character who is KO'd very easily except for the side, but he is a character who can be combo'd to no end by his opponent, especially if that opponent is someone like Link or ZSS. The biggest reason as to why D3 can't really get out of Link's strings is because Link has that range and D3 has poor mobility. D3's fastest aerial, his get-off-me attack, N-Air, still cannot beat Link's up attacks because he lacks range and his hitbox is on his body; he'd likely be in hitstun by the time Link rounds up another upward attack, despite D3's N-AIr being frame 7.

D3 can't use D-Air since it's too slow. F-Air wouldn't reach Link fast enough. B-Air and U-Air are both unusable against Link's strings. Let's all remember that D3 has the worst aerial mobility overall due to having the slowest aerial movement and the second fastest fall and fast fall speed of any character. If you have poor aerial movement and that much fall speed added on to your size and weight, you will get combo'd to almost no end. If you use a character like Link who has some faster attacks than D3 and absurd range as well as a good throw setup into some good juggles and combo strings, you make the D3 match a living nightmare that's nearly unwinnable.

I've fought a rather large amount of D3's, some in my local tournaments, some online in serious matches on the With Friends selection, so I know the MU quite well. The best D3 I've fought with my Link got 3 stocked 80% of the time and lost every time.
 
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