Social Burn With Passion!! -- Incineroar General Discussion (Formerly the Support Thread)

[MacDaddyNook]

I recognize that character but, I can't help but imagine Incineroar with the voice of Shao Kahn, MK 9.

Personally, I'd love for it to have a faux Hulk Hogan or Randy Savage voice to complete the wrestler motif.

Good news for Incineroar, at least.

Two common arguments against it are now dead.

1. People can't say that Decidueye is more likely because "we need a Grass Starter to complete the set" anymore because Pokémon Trainer is back.

2. People can't say Incineroar is unlikely because it's a second Fire/second Dark type anymore either. Because of Squirtle's and Pichu's return, we have two Water types and two Electric types now.

Those were always stupid arguments to begin with. A Smash candidate should be judged on what can that character bring that others can't, not to fill some arbitrary "representation" quota.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Well we havent seen Litten as a pokeball yet, so that's nice at least. We arent completely out of the running. But im assuming not every AT / pokeball is here. Srill no guarantees. Not hopeful, but the ref has yet to ring the bell

Why would Litten being a Pokeball affect Incineroar at all?

I will say, I'm still a drop dead Decidueye supporter, but both have equal footing. Whichever side wins, congrats.

(Of course there's always the possibility we could get both because Sakurai is a magnificent son-of-a-***** who is impossible to predict)

I will say, a wrestling archetype would be cool in Smash. Would rather see the RH Wrestler use it, but I digress.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why would Litten being a Pokeball affect Incineroar at all?

Before Ultimate, if a Pokémon in an evolutionary line was playable, another from that line wouldn't be an assist or vice versa.

It wasn't a rule, more of a pattern.

Alolan Raichu in Ultimate broke that though, which was brought up in a later post than the one you quoted.

 

[Takasmash]

I've been thinking about who will be the next gen 7 rep I decision is Incineroar he's a fire wresting fighting type that will be very different for smash. The problem with Sun and Moon is that there are so many lovable Pokemon and its hard to predict who will be in smash ultimate. Even know that I love to see Decidueye or Mimikyu in smash but I think the problem with those two is that Decidueye will be a little to obvious and Mimikyu is probably most likely as a Poke Ball I think that works best for him not sure that could go either way. Incineroar is one of chosen Pokemon for Smash Ultimate because he will bring something new the table picture his trailer with Little Mac and Dedede at the boxing ring people be wondering can be a new Punch Out character say of King Hippo nope who comes jumping outta of the ring of nowhere its Incineroar couldn't come of with a clever title of his intro but you get what Im saying. OMG I think I found my favorite Pokemon and Im supporting this fire type in Smash Ultimate. Oh and he's one of Ash Pokemon in the anime something to think about there and I;m not caught up but I think thats Torracat is going to evolve into Incineroar unless it already happened.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Incineroar would make for a really great grappler moveset, so I decided to spend some free time I have towards, well, making a moveset that fully showcases the idea of a full grappler in Smash.

Now, take in mind that I've admittedly went a little overboard with the amount of grabs, but the fact that there were so many to choose from, more than enough to come up with so many different moves, shows that it's possible to have a really creative grappler moveset that would feel at home in Smash.

Also, didn't write percentages because I suck at those

Spoiler: Moveset

Jab
First hit - A vertical chopping motion with his back paw.
Second hit - A horizontal claw swipe with his front paw.
"Gentleman" - A powerful palm strike with his back paw. A great "get off of me" move. Has a darkness effect.
Infinite jab - A flaming twister coming out of his belt. Visual reference.
Infinite finisher - His belt creates a flame in the shape of an open pair of teeth, which then chomps down on the opponent. About as good as his Gentleman. Based on the Fire Fang move. Visual reference.

Tilts and Dash
Forward tilt - He leans forward with both arms together and swipes, separating his claws on impact. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect. Based on the Cross Chop move.
Up tilt - An overhead arcing swipe with his claws. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect.
Down tilt - He performs a slap while crouching.
Dash attack - He thrusts forward with an arm outstretched, then twists his claws. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect. Visual reference.

Smashes
Forward smash - He rears back and makes a lunging elbow attack. Strong horizontal kill option. Can be tilted. Has a fire effect.
Up smash - A powerful uppercut. Not as strong as his forward smash, but gets the job done. Has a fire effect. Visual reference.
Down smash - He swipes his claws on both sides of his body, one at a time. His fastest, but weakest smash attack. Has a fire effect.

Grabs and Throws
Grab - He holds onto the opponent's head with his claws.
Pummel - A punch to the opponent's gut.
Forward throw - He throws the opponent in the air, then performs a palm strike to send them flying forward. The final strike has his hand glowing purple, giving it a darkness effect. Based on the Throat Chop move. Visual reference.
Back throw - He grabs the opponent's legs, spins them around to lift them off of the ground, then releases them on the other side, tossing them backwards. His best throw for kills or simply sending opponents off the stage. Visual reference.
Up throw - He holds the opponent upside down by the waist, then leaps into the air in a sitting position with the opponent's head between his legs. Spinning rapidly, slams the opponent headfirst into the ground. The impact sends them flying upward. Visual reference.
Down throw - He lifts the opponent up over his shoulders, then slams them onto the ground. Can set up tech chases. Visual reference (first one only).

Aerials
Neutral air - He spreads his arms and legs out wide. Based on a wrestling move called the body press, but unlike a typical body press, it is not affected by gravity, mainly because it's not a down air here. Visual reference.
Forward air - He swipes downward with his claws. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect.
Back air - He turns around to perform a low-angled back slap, with his hand engulfed in darkness. Could work as a kill option. Visual reference.
Up air - He swings his claws in an arch almost exactly like his up tilt. The claws are a sweetspot that deals more damage (but the same knockback) and the only part of the move with a darkness effect.
Down air - An elbow drop. Works as a stall-then-fall meteor smash. Visual reference.

Neutral Special: Darkest Lariat
One of Incineroar's signature techniques. In Smash, it works as a chargeable move similar in fuction to Link's Spin Attack, becoming stronger the more you charge it. As the name implies, it allows him to perform a lariat with a darkness effect. Visual reference. Or alternatively...

Much like Spin Attack, you can't keep the charge and, due to it being a lariat, can't be reversed when unleashing it since it hits both sides anyway. Performing it in the air will put Incineroar into freefall. The attack has some startup and ending lag, but it's a strong KO option when fully charged, making it a move that's more suited for hard reads or shield breaks.

Side Special: Submission
A move that Incineroar doesn't really have in his move list, but given his wrestler motif and his moveset's design as a grappler, it remains a fitting move for him. It essentially works as a combination of command grabs that don't really follow the one-second limit for grabs in order for the move to properly work. Much like Marth's Dancing Blade, you can choose the follow-up you get using the B button and holding a directional input, giving you four different ways to extend the move. With that said, you need to have presice timing in order for the follow-up to work.

Initial grab - He throws his opponent upwards before he leaps towards them and, grabbing their legs, slams them to the ground. Visual reference.
Aerial version - He only does the slam. Can work as a Ganoncide, but can be mashed out of by the opponent.

Spoiler: First follow-up

Neutral/Forward+B - He lifts his opponent one-handed, them slams their face to the ground. Twice. Doesn't require any timing for a follow-up, but as a tradeoff, deals very little damage. Visual reference.
Back+B - He performs a headlock and crushes his opponent repeatedly, salutes with one arm and neck rides the opponent to the ground. The most damaging option, but also the one with the least forgiving timing for follow-ups. Visual reference.
Up+B - He lifts the opponent with one hand and then slams them down to the ground. Twice. The second least damaging option, but has a forgiving timing for a follow-up to compensate. Visual reference.
Down+B - He grabs the foe back up with one hand and slams them behind him. Twice. The fastest option. Damage and timing is in between that of Back+B and Up+B. Visual reference.

Spoiler: Second follow-up

Neutral/Forward+B - He picks up the foe, flips them upside down, walks a bit and piledrives. Has very little knockback, setting up for tech chases. Visual reference.
Back+B - He performs a waistlock before backward rolling into two German suplexes, followed by a Power Bomb. The most damaging option. Visual reference.
Up+B - He jumps in the air, holding the opponent, them performs a rack hold before doing an Argentine backbreaker drop, throwing them off afterwards. The least damaging option, but can be followed up with an aerial, dash attack, etc. Visual reference.
Down+B - He brutally slams the opponent to the ground. Twice. The second time strong enough to send them flying. The option with the most knockback. Visual reference.

For both the initial grab and the first follow-up, the proper timing for follow-ups is at the point where the opponent lands on the floor at the end of the command grab.

Up Special: Cross Chop
A simple recovery move in which Incineroar goes to a direction of the player's choosing. As he moves, he crosses its arms to form an "X". If he hits an opponent with his crossed arms, he will push them back with its hands, dealing a good amount of knockback. Visual reference.

The recovery range is similar to that of Wolf's Fire Wolf, but if an opponent gets in the way, the attack will happen early, stopping all momentum. Regardless of when the attack happens, it will put Incineroar into freefall.

Down Special: Bulk Up / Revenge
The down special divides itself in two moves; Bulk Up and Revenge.

The Bulk Up move is one that is defensive in nature. Incineroar flexes his body and a flame from his fire belt travels upwards over his torso, causing his muscles to thicken. In this state, he will receive super armor against the next attack that hits him, similarly to Ryu's Focus Attack. Visual reference.

In addition, by pressing B and holding directional input, Incineroar will be able to perform a command grab. This is the Revenge move, yet another move Incineroar doesn't normally have, but still kinda makes sense give how the move works. However, this only works as soon as Incineroar is hit during Bulk Up, essentially working like a manually-inputted command grab counter.

Spoiler: Grounded options

Neutral/Forward+B - He spins around his opponent, then performs a back drop. Both Incineroar and his opponent end up on the ground and are both in a tech chase situation. Visual reference.
Back+B - He rolls backwards then throws his opponent off. By far the option with the most knockback. Visual reference.
Up+B - He holds his opponent through the collar, spins them around above his head like a lasso and then slams them into the ground. Can set up combos. Visual reference (except he slams them in the same direction he grabbed them).
Down+B - He grabs the opponent's arm and snaps it at the elbow, then turns them around and snaps the neck, then trips them up to the ground. Visual reference. Can set up tech chases. Visual reference (until 0:07).

He can also perform the command grabs in the air, but his options are much more limited, making it similar to Bowser's Koopa Klaw in Melee.

Spoiler: Aerial options

Neutral/Forward/Up+B - He performs a palm strike right at the opponent's gut, sending them forward. The Up+B version instead strikes the opponent's head, causing the angle to be more diagonally upward.
Back/Down+B - He spins around before sending his opponent backward at a downwards angle. Despite said angle, it is not a meteor. Visual reference.

Final Smash: Malicious Moonsault
Incineroar initiates the Final Smash by making a pose. Anyone within a certain range, indicated by a sudden burst of flames, will be trapped into a cinematic Final Smash in which they are in the middle of a wrestling ring. Incineroar, jumping on one of the ring's corners, then leaps high in the air and performs a body press, landing on the opponents and causing an explosion. In other words, his Z-Move. Visual reference.

Again, I think there's way more grabs than I think an actual, official Incenaroar moveset could have. But I wanted to pull as much stuff from fighting game grapplers as possible into a single moveset to show how far the grappler idea can go.

There's also things like taunts, victory poses and things like that, which I feel more comfortable letting someone like Golden think about because I'm not much of a Pokemon player. I just wanted to make a grappler moveset.

With that said, the potential of a grappler really makes me pumped up, so if I'm not in the supporter list, put me in it. I want a grappler in Smash, dammit!

 

[Takasmash]

I look at the smash official characters page I notice theres never been a cat that was playable will it be funny if Incineroar reveal in Ultimate theres has to be a clip that he beats up Wolf or Duck Hunt it will be priceless.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Has this been debunked yet? The best news I've seen for this guy in a while.

The design document time was also good news, basically eliminating Lycanroc and removing Decidueye's Pokken relevance. The only other Pokemon not particularly hurt was Mimikyu.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Has this been debunked yet? The best news I've seen for this guy in a while.

The design document time was also good news, basically eliminating Lycanroc and removing Decidueye's Pokken relevance. The only other Pokemon not particularly hurt was Mimikyu.

Q3 2019? or 2018?

If the latter, I seriously doubt they'd release Smash amiibo before the actual game.

If the former, seems a bit late... unless Smash 4 characters also get a redesign from the game's launch to Q3 2019. But that would be something he'd point out... right?

Then again... he said preproduction...

 

[Klimax]

Do you think that Incineroar is likely ?

Because i think that he may be underrated.

First of all, even though he was hated by the Pokemon community at first, things changed. He's the one starter used by Ash in the anime (and we know that the anime is important).

He could be really unique with his pro wrestling based moveset. Someone talked about a character with a grappling moveset, that could be really interesting and unique.

And the fact that he's inspired by pro wrestling is important. Pro wrestling is really popular in Japan, not as big as baseball, but this is still something popular. So, I think that Incineroar could be more popular than what we think in Japan.

I'm not saying that he has more chances of making it than Decidueye because that's really hard to tell, i'm just saying that, in my opinion, this Pokemon is really underrated.

Also, as a huge wrestling fan, i support Incineroar, i would pay to see Little Mac in a ring, knocking out some guys, then being interrupted by the entrance of Incineroar (WWE Style), walking to the ring with an arrogant smile. Then, the two could fight a bit in a styles' clash, that would be awesome.

 

[Deleted member]

Has this been debunked yet? The best news I've seen for this guy in a while.

The design document time was also good news, basically eliminating Lycanroc and removing Decidueye's Pokken relevance. The only other Pokemon not particularly hurt was Mimikyu.

I would want it to be real for obvious reasons, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

There's also the strange issue of the supposed Echo set.
Not just that I don't really buy Ninten being an Echo, but why would Charizard be getting a solo amiibo if he already has one for Smash? Literally no other veteran from Smash 4 is on this list, presumably because they already have amiibo to use within the Smash line.

 

[MasterWarlord]

I would want it to be real for obvious reasons, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

There's also the strange issue of the supposed Echo set.
Not just that I don't really buy Ninten being an Echo, but why would Charizard be getting a solo amiibo if he already has one for Smash? Literally no other veteran from Smash 4 is on this list, presumably because they already have amiibo to use within the Smash line.

The proposal was that it would be an echo for Charizard X, if this was truly legitimate. Granted, the leak just says "Charizard."

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The proposal was that it would be an echo for Charizard X, if this was truly legitimate. Granted, the leak just says "Charizard."

I heavily doubt it.

A Charizard echo would make no sense in this scenario since Charizard is now part of the Trainer again.

Even if they just make a standalone Zard with Rock Smash, it CANNOT be an Echo because Rock Smash means the two Zards would effectively have different movesets.

 

[Deleted member]

I heavily doubt it.

A Charizard echo would make no sense in this scenario since Charizard is now part of the Trainer again.

Even if they just make a standalone Zard with Rock Smash, it CANNOT be an Echo because Rock Smash means the two Zards would effectively have different movesets.

The very fact there would be no switching with Squirtle or Ivysaur alone would mean the movesets are different. Regardless of what move replaces Pokémon Switch.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The very fact there would be no switching with Squirtle or Ivysaur alone would mean the movesets are different. Regardless of what move replaces Pokémon Switch.

So basically, saying Zard is an Echo of himself busts the leak?

 

[Deleted member]

So basically, saying Zard is an Echo of himself busts the leak?

Pretty much.

 

[Eldrake]

I have a feeling that Incineroar has a greater chance to be in Ultimate than most people realize, simply because Incineroar is in the 20th pokemon movie (Remember: Sakurai generally asks Gamefreak which pokemon are gonna in the movies and such), and as Charizard's rival. While Lycanroc-Midnight and Marshadow is featured in the same movie, their significantly decreased prominence in recent times makes me doubt their chances.

I'd be happy if Incineroar makes it, simply because my friend wants Incineroar.

 

[Takasmash]

Has this been debunked yet? The best news I've seen for this guy in a while.

The design document time was also good news, basically eliminating Lycanroc and removing Decidueye's Pokken relevance. The only other Pokemon not particularly hurt was Mimikyu.

Oh my god this rumor sounds legit hope is real but wheres Simon Belmont so many leaks say he will be in Smash Ultimate the leak did call Ridley and all characters returning from smash history. Okay want Incineora more than any gen 7 rep dang I hope Rayman gets in Smash Ultimate he's my number 1 third partie. Oh and no new retro rep Sakurai always add a new retro character ever sense Melee maybe we wont get a new retro but it will feel so weird if theres no new retro rep I hope Sakurai does add a new retro character. This leak is a little bit off but I dont mind this leak being real.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Oh my god this rumor sounds legit hope is real but wheres Simon Belmont so many leaks say he will be in Smash Ultimate the leak did call Ridley and all characters returning from smash history. Okay want Incineora more than any gen 7 rep dang I hope Rayman gets in Smash Ultimate he's my number 1 third partie. Oh and no new retro rep Sakurai always add a new retro character ever sense Melee maybe we wont get a new retro but it will feel so weird if theres no new retro rep I hope Sakurai does add a new retro character. This leak is a little bit off but I dont mind this leak being real.

Huh. The lack of Simon is a good call.

Verg (I shorten it to that because I can never remember the full name) was right on the money for a lot of things about his leak, and what’s yet to be confirmed was never specified to be revealed at E3

 

[Takasmash]

Huh. The lack of Simon is a good call.

Verg (I shorten it to that because I can never remember the full name) was right on the money for a lot of things about his leak, and what’s yet to be confirmed was never specified to be revealed at E3

People was right about three newcomers reveal at E3 man I was wrong, but I think the real reason why Simon was not reveal at E3 its because A) Sakurai probably didn't wont to reveal to Konami characters at the same time or B) Sakurai didn't wont to ruin the Snake hype train C) Simon is not ready to be reveal because Simon got so much designs Sakurai having problem with Simon incarnations smash concept I hope we get the Chronicles design.

 

[Skyblade12]

On that rumor:
As someone who works in a factory, there is basically no hope of this being legitimate.

This information would be tightly controlled by the customer (in this case, Nintendo). With the manufacturing itself being done by machines, there is no reason to distribute the information outside of the company’s systems. You can download the designs of each amiibo directly into the machine that is crafting it, and the workers would just load up the raw materials and unload the finished products or work in progress.

Code names and product numbers are standard throughout the industry. The Ridley amiibo would probably be called something like SSBU65, and that’s assuming Nintendo isn’t even trying to hide the information.

The only way someone working in the factory would be able to tell what was being produced was by actually seeing what is rolling off the tools. They wouldn’t even be told what company a particular tool is making product for. All the workers do is run the machines.

As such, while they could say what is being made right now, there is no possible way that they could tell you what is up and coming, especially half a year in advance. That information is not widely available, for good reason. Upper level managers and such would know. And it’s doubtful one of them would risk their entire company for five minutes of fame on 4chan. Because a breach of customer data on this level not only opens up massive lawsuits, even in China, but also would destroy their credibility and make sure no one would work with them again. There are too many competing companies out there for a business to work with one that will reveal their information.

 

[SEGAGameBoy]

I'm really good at training Fire-types. Incineroar was my Starter in Ultra Moon. But, I've never played Pokemon Sun/Moon before. I'm planning on getting Pokemon Sun. I support!

 

[Walfan]

Joining the fan-club of my favourite cat. He'd be a great addition to the Smash roster and I can easily picture plenty of ways he could play.

Echoing what I said in the Lycanroc thread, I feel that Incineroar and the former are the most likely Pokemon newcomers. Mimikyu is too similar to Pikachu/Pichu visually and I think he's a better fit as Poke Ball material, and while Decidueye is great, he might very well be the victim of a reversed Greninja situation due to his presence in Pokken.

 

[The Legendary Beast]

I support Incineroar for Smash! I wanted to add him to my sig but I couldn't find a stock icon for him...

So I found an image that was close enough for now.

 

[Pakky]

I support Incineroar for Smash! I wanted to add him to my sig but I couldn't find a stock icon for him...

So I found an image that was close enough for now.

Spoiler: Incineroar icons for the fans

By me Pakky

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Has this been debunked yet? The best news I've seen for this guy in a while.

The design document time was also good news, basically eliminating Lycanroc and removing Decidueye's Pokken relevance. The only other Pokemon not particularly hurt was Mimikyu.

I'm glad this was debunked.

Specifically the implication there would be a Charizard echo of himself.

Last thing the game needs is two Charizards

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Spoiler: Incineroar icons for the fans

By me Pakky

Very nice.

 

[Pakky]

Very nice.

Thank you

Going to make Iris-less variants soon!

Hazah!


As promised

Spoiler: Iris-less Incineroar

 

[Cetus]

Big papa tiger for Smash Bros imo. Sign me up for some o' dem Incineroar stuff.

 

[Deleted member]

Welp, Tom Vergeron recently claimed that there is a Gen 7 character that will be controversial because it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, or Lycanroc.

Whether he can be considered trustworthy or not may vary from person to person, but if he's not bull****ting us, that would heavily imply that the character is none other than Incineroar.

Hoping for the best....

 

[Pakky]

Welp, Tom Vergeron recently claimed that there is a Gen 7 character that will be controversial because it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, or Lycanroc.

Whether he can be considered trustworthy or not may vary from person to person, but if he's not bull****ting us, that would heavily imply that the character is none other than Incineroar.

Hoping for the best....

Smash might have its Zangief, good show very good show.

 

[Zoljinx_]

sign me up as a supporter, if we get a Gen 7 Pokemon, the only one i'd want would be Incineroar. he's one of my favorite starters, second only to Blastoise, and with Pokemon Trainer bringing back Squirtle, Blastoise seems unlikely.

Incineroar immediately became my Starter choice the moment i saw him, and i really am hopeful for him being the one picked over Decidueye. I feel like they could make Incineroar real flashy and exciting with the idea of him being a wrestler-style character, and how wrestling is mostly about the showmanship.

 

[Buzzwole]

While there are other gen 7 pokemon I'd prefer over Incineroar, if I had to pick one of the three starters, I'd probably go with him.
Decidueye got his chance to shine in Pokken.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

inb4 Buzzwole

 

[TCT~Phantom]

It's Inciniroars day in RTC, come show your support @GoldenYuiitusin good luck.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, I don't really do RTC.

 

[Takasmash]

Inciniroar is so lucky after hearing that Decidueye Lycanroc and Mimikyu wont be newcomers gen 7 its ok my Pokemon is Inciniroar.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Inciniroar is so lucky after hearing that Decidueye Lycanroc and Mimikyu wont be newcomers gen 7 its ok my Pokemon is Inciniroar.

I wouldn't take Vergeben's word as gospel if I were you.

Yeah, he accurately guessed Ridley at E3, but considering his leak mentionned some but not ALL cuts returning, he's sketchy.

Especially since it was the very first thing Sakurai had in mind for Ultimate, meaning it would've been known very early on in development.

With that said, he's still the closest thing we have to a lead, so it's not wrong to consider what he says as possibility. Just add a grain of salt in them.

 

[Opossum]

I wouldn't take Vergeben's word as gospel if I were you.

Yeah, he accurately guessed Ridley at E3, but considering his leak mentionned some but not ALL cuts returning, he's sketchy.

Especially since it was the very first thing Sakurai had in mind for Ultimate, meaning it would've been known very early on in development.

With that said, he's still the closest thing we have to a lead, so it's not wrong to consider what he says as possibility. Just add a grain of salt in them.

My theory is he somehow saw the E3 demo roster. It would explain why he didn't mention Daisy, why he knew Snake and the Ice Climbers were back, and why he doubled down on Ridley being an E3 reveal. Nothing about that roster screamed "Everyone is Here!" The only question at that point would have been why he didn't say anything about Pokémon Trainer, but it's entirely possible he just didn't think it was as big of a deal as others did.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My theory is he somehow saw the E3 demo roster. It would explain why he didn't mention Daisy, why he knew Snake and the Ice Climbers were back, and why he doubled down on Ridley being an E3 reveal. Nothing about that roster screamed "Everyone is Here!" The only question at that point would have been why he didn't say anything about Pokémon Trainer, but it's entirely possible he just didn't think it was as big of a deal as others did.

But he also said there'd be no cuts from Smash 4, right?

 

[Opossum]

But he also said there'd be no cuts from Smash 4, right?

Wasn't that not the same source as the rest? Either way I don't think it's a red flag.