BrawlBox v0.63d (bug fixes)

[E-Jolteon]

I have a question for you Kryal. When you get the model importing working, how will rigging work? Will we have to rig our model in a separate program like 3ds max and export as a .DAE?

Yes we will. Brawlbox is NOT a 3d Modeling program and rigging is a part of 3D modeling. Material shaders is probably the only part that 3dsmax or Blender wouldnt be able to do entirely on their own.

 

[Bendario]

Oh man, I haven't been to SmashBoards in FOREVER! Well I just bought a new (used :| ) copy of brawl after waiting around 6 months for my little brother to replace the one he lost (man... I paid for it at launch, and he just... man). ANYWAY, enough about me, I wanted to say that this tool is the bomb, and you should be very proud of yourself and the rest of your team, Kryal. I just recently started looking into Brawl hacking and this is easily the most worked on project I've seen. Keep up the good work.

 

[pokelover980]

the rest of your team

Last I checked, Kryal doesn't even have a team XD

 

[Bendario]

Last I checked, Kryal doesn't even have a team XD

For real? Wow, then I've got to give him even more credit! Excellent work.

 

[Kryal]

Yes we will. Brawlbox is NOT a 3d Modeling program and rigging is a part of 3D modeling. Material shaders is probably the only part that 3dsmax or Blender wouldnt be able to do entirely on their own.

It will be eventually, it has to be. The 'shader' commands are unique to the Wii and may be very difficult to convert. Other programs do not support texture animations, some do not support color animations, etc. We can expect, at the least, to be able to import/export geometry without any problems. The rest of it will have to be done as a finalization step.

I know a lot of you are used to your 3D programs, but remember that BBox isn't even a full release yet. The goal is to eliminate the need to import/export. Also keep in mind that the idea behind 3d design is very simple, and that the only thing the expensive programs have are their advanced tools and features. Most of which will not be compatible with the Wii model format.

 

[luigiman1928]

Hey Kryal have you seen the Vertex importer and exporter by Akari_un? It automates the job!
Wy dont you look into how that works since that was what i requested, only editing the vertices in BBox.

 

[markehmus]

great work on the new release kryal.
i just got back from working up north for 6 weeks, and had to see what you were up to

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

when I was a child I said > "When I grow up I want to be a math teacher or a Game Designer"

... chaning animations in brawlbox is a piece of cake... but... I hate it when I have to change the translations myself so the models don't stretch >.>

no way I want to be a game designer >.< I hate this in brawl box and will definetly hate it for all game I could even think to work :S

NAMQ > somewhat lazy for specific stuff, semi perfectionist also

would be awsome if exporting/replacing animations wouldn't copy translations... and only just change the XYZ rotations

requested a while back but no feedback

 

[pokelover980]

when I was a child I said > "When I grow up I want to be a math teacher or a Game Designer"

... chaning animations in brawlbox is a piece of cake... but... I hate it when I have to change the translations myself so the models don't stretch >.>

no way I want to be a game designer >.< I hate this in brawl box and will definetly hate it for all game I could even think to work :S

NAMQ > somewhat lazy for specific stuff, semi perfectionist also

would be awsome if exporting/replacing animations wouldn't copy translations... and only just change the XYZ rotations

requested a while back but no feedback

That's why game designers don't make animations like you have to with BrawlBox :U

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

That's why game designers don't make animations like you have to with BrawlBox :U

they don't ?

I'm pretty sure that I'm lost :S

more on topic, what is to be expected on the next version of BBox?

 

[brawlshifter]

they don't ?

I'm pretty sure that I'm lost :S

more on topic, what is to be expected on the next version of BBox?

Model Rebuilder.

 

[Darkurai]

In the Stage Collision Editor, is there anyway to add..."platforms", I'll call them?

I fail to see how previous hacks have been possible without this feature, yet I can't seem to find it.

If this feature is unavailable, could someone tell me how people have dealt with it previously?

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

Model Rebuilder.

model rebuilder :O ???

like adding bones or something?

 

[luigiman1928]

Automated vertex or In BBox Vertex editing, and Model Rebuilder.

.OBJ's are imported as polygons, and .3ds's are going to be MDL0's if i recall Kryal saying correctly.

 

[Kryal]

when I was a child I said > "When I grow up I want to be a math teacher or a Game Designer"

... chaning animations in brawlbox is a piece of cake... but... I hate it when I have to change the translations myself so the models don't stretch >.>

no way I want to be a game designer >.< I hate this in brawl box and will definetly hate it for all game I could even think to work :S

NAMQ > somewhat lazy for specific stuff, semi perfectionist also

would be awsome if exporting/replacing animations wouldn't copy translations... and only just change the XYZ rotations

requested a while back but no feedback

That's why game designers don't make animations like you have to with BrawlBox :U

Patience is a virtue. Be glad you can do it at all.

In the Stage Collision Editor, is there anyway to add..."platforms", I'll call them?

I fail to see how previous hacks have been possible without this feature, yet I can't seem to find it.

If this feature is unavailable, could someone tell me how people have dealt with it previously?

Hold Alt and click.

 

[brawlshifter]

Patience is a virtue. Be glad you can do it at all.

I am! In my opinion that has been the best update so far.

 

[E-Jolteon]

I know a lot of you are used to your 3D programs, but remember that BBox isn't even a full release yet. The goal is to eliminate the need to import/export. Also keep in mind that the idea behind 3d design is very simple, and that the only thing the expensive programs have are their advanced tools and features. Most of which will not be compatible with the Wii model format.

If nothing else, the mesh importing should be from an external source. While what you're saying about the advanced features IS true, many of them aren't important for game rigging and wont be used anyway.

On that note, what about textures? I'd imagine you'd have to export them and manage them in Photoshop or the like to do something good. It'd just be redundant to give Brawlbox it's own texture editor, and I feel the same way about models. Brawlbox should have the ability to edit the materials and such, yeah, but I think the 3dmodeling and texturing should be handled separately.

Finally, those "advanced tools" are very easy to change into a simple mesh.

 

[Darkurai]

Hold Alt and click.

Thank you so, so much.

 

[Kryal]

If nothing else, the mesh importing should be from an external source. While what you're saying about the advanced features IS true, many of them aren't important for game rigging and wont be used anyway.

On that note, what about textures? I'd imagine you'd have to export them and manage them in Photoshop or the like to do something good. It'd just be redundant to give Brawlbox it's own texture editor, and I feel the same way about models. Brawlbox should have the ability to edit the materials and such, yeah, but I think the 3dmodeling and texturing should be handled separately.

Finally, those "advanced tools" are very easy to change into a simple mesh.

True, but I'm giving you two options. The reason for the editor is the specific features the models have, like materials, shaders and such. Basically, I'm saying that if you don't have a 3D program you can still make meshes just the same. If you insist on using an external program you still can. I'm not limiting your options in that sense. BrawlBox is more or less the interface with your final product. If you import a complex model and say a vertex group is a little off, you won't have to re-import the group because it will be a quick change in the editor.

So, the rebuilder is half way done. The new interface may have to wait though, because I would rather release the rebuilder when it's functional. This will allow you to add/remove bones and textures in a model, as well as re-link the resources like polygons, materials, shaders. and geometry.

I may decide to go exclusively with the Collada file format, because it's the only one that's widely used and supports vertex weights/skinning as well as bones. If I build a codec for 3ds or obj, the weights won't copy over and will only be usable for 'replacing' existing geometry. We COULD export just the vertices in obj format and re-insert them separate from the polygons, but it seems kind of dirty. Any thoughts?

 

[pikazz]

True, but I'm giving you two options. The reason for the editor is the specific features the models have, like materials, shaders and such. Basically, I'm saying that if you don't have a 3D program you can still make meshes just the same. If you insist on using an external program you still can. I'm not limiting your options in that sense. BrawlBox is more or less the interface with your final product. If you import a complex model and say a vertex group is a little off, you won't have to re-import the group because it will be a quick change in the editor.

So, the rebuilder is half way done. The new interface may have to wait though, because I would rather release the rebuilder when it's functional. This will allow you to add/remove bones and textures in a model, as well as re-link the resources like polygons, materials, shaders. and geometry.

I may decide to go exclusively with the Collada file format, because it's the only one that's widely used and supports vertex weights/skinning as well as bones. If I build a codec for 3ds or obj, the weights won't copy over and will only be usable for 'replacing' existing geometry. We COULD export just the vertices in obj format and re-insert them separate from the polygons, but it seems kind of dirty. Any thoughts?

that is good news :3
I think the last one about the vertices would work :3
but dont know if it will be dirty or not D:

 

[E-Jolteon]

I may decide to go exclusively with the Collada file format, because it's the only one that's widely used and supports vertex weights/skinning as well as bones. If I build a codec for 3ds or obj, the weights won't copy over and will only be usable for 'replacing' existing geometry. We COULD export just the vertices in obj format and re-insert them separate from the polygons, but it seems kind of dirty. Any thoughts?

I'd prefer if you just went with DAE(Though I don't have a plugin to export it in 3dsmax 2010), but having .obj or 3ds for simple vertex edits it in no way a bad idea since some things just don't need a full new model.

Also, dibs on cel shaded toon Link costume. I even made a phantom-hourglass-esque texture for it.

 

[Kryal]

that is good news :3
I think the last one about the vertices would work :3
but dont know if it will be dirty or not D:

Vertices also have normals, colors and uv points attached to them. Polygons group all these together. If you change just the vertices then the normals will be invalid. That, and polygons use indexes to reference a vertex 'element'. So, if the order of the vertices changes in any way then the polygon could get messed up. I don't know, maybe I'm just thinking aloud here.

 

[pokelover980]

Patience is a virtue. Be glad you can do it at all.

I am very patient, I was just telling him that game designers don't do it the way BrawlBox does. IMO, visual animation editing has been the best update. I wouldn't have been able to make Lucario float without that update, or at least, not as easily. The first update to support animations was still great.

Anyways, I hope the great work continues, Kryal.

 

[Mackorony101]

Just a few suggestions for upcoming versions of brawlbox, Kyral.

I found out that if you export a texture (But I think it happens with any format) and there is a "." in its name, such as "enkeiCloud.1", then the file extension wont appear and it will be a raw data file. Also it could be very helpful when you replace a file in brawlbox you will be able to have an option so that the name will stay with the file instead of having to rename all of the files.

By the way you are doing an excellent job with this and I enjoy this program very much.

 

[STUFF2o]

I'd prefer if you just went with DAE(Though I don't have a plugin to export it in 3dsmax 2010), but having .obj or 3ds for simple vertex edits it in no way a bad idea since some things just don't need a full new model.

Also, dibs on cel shaded toon Link costume. I even made a phantom-hourglass-esque texture for it.

Yes. YES. YESZ!!!

 

[Power Marshall]

As well by the way Kryal, but is Scaling fixed. I am not sure but my results for the stage are yet the same, so I guess it is not. Nevertheless, I can not wait for 0.64!

 

[ds22]

So when the model rebuilder comes out, can we use it to fix the problems the models have (grab glitch, random glitch ups, movement)?

 

[Kryal]

Just a few suggestions for upcoming versions of brawlbox, Kyral.

I found out that if you export a texture (But I think it happens with any format) and there is a "." in its name, such as "enkeiCloud.1", then the file extension wont appear and it will be a raw data file. Also it could be very helpful when you replace a file in brawlbox you will be able to have an option so that the name will stay with the file instead of having to rename all of the files.

By the way you are doing an excellent job with this and I enjoy this program very much.

Shoot, I thought that was fixed...

As well by the way Kryal, but is Scaling fixed. I am not sure but my results for the stage are yet the same, so I guess it is not. Nevertheless, I can not wait for 0.64!

I haven't really looked at scaling. I believe I still have some files, but send some along just in case.

So when the model rebuilder comes out, can we use it to fix the problems the models have (grab glitch, random glitch ups, movement)?

Depends on what the problem is. Most likely yes, because I'm assuming it's the action script that causes the freezing. Fixing bones/nodes may be the solution.

 

[ds22]

No freezes, just massive glitch ups (colors everywhere).
My idea is using the model rebuilder to (for example) give Ike's bones to Naruto so that not only can he be animated easily, it also fixes all of the bone related glitches.
Just an idea, don't know if it will be possible.

 

[Power Marshall]

I haven't really looked at scaling. I believe I still have some files, but send some along just in case.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jl5jmmzwnm2

It is a FD stage I am trying to work on and I edited the Collision file to match the model, but the model is very small in compare to the collision so they do not match. I try to scale the model so that it fits the collision. Like I said, it works in Brawl Box but not in-game.

Well, it is the same file basically. It perfectly matches the collision in BrawlBox, but in-game has its normal small size.

 

[E-Jolteon]

Shoot, I thought that was fixed...

It is for me.. Do windows XP users only have that problem now?

 

[Sails]

I'm sure this has been suggested before, but an option to view the current hex location of the full file for something would be great. Sick of editing fogs and having to hunt around for the hex address that may or may not appear in ten different areas >_<

 

[Kryal]

I'm sure this has been suggested before, but an option to view the current hex location of the full file for something would be great. Sick of editing fogs and having to hunt around for the hex address that may or may not appear in ten different areas >_<

Like I've said, request a feature so you don't have to hex. This is the first time I've had a request for fogs/scene data. The idea is that you shouldn't have to do extra work hexing something I can throw in after a few days. Speak up with the format requests, consider hexing/exporting a crime!

 

[shock44]

I'd like to make a request for a future version of Brawlbox. This will probably come way later, but I hope that we'll be able to replace sound effects in brawl without the need for hexing. And also be able to add in new sound effects for new characters when the character expansion code/clone engine comes out.

 

[KuroBit]

Like I've said, request a feature so you don't have to hex. This is the first time I've had a request for fogs/scene data. The idea is that you shouldn't have to do extra work hexing something I can throw in after a few days. Speak up with the format requests, consider hexing/exporting a crime!

Wait really? I figured that would just eventually get put in. I've always hoped to get support for the scene data, such as lighting, fog, etc. I didn't realize that no one had mentioned it .

EDIT: Just read what you wrote about the model rebuilder! Great news, I can't wait to see what we can do with it!

 

[Shadic]

Like I've said, request a feature so you don't have to hex. This is the first time I've had a request for fogs/scene data. The idea is that you shouldn't have to do extra work hexing something I can throw in after a few days. Speak up with the format requests, consider hexing/exporting a crime!

Ooh! I double the request for scene data. Having to hex fog, lights, etc is a pain.

 

[Power Marshall]

I have been patient, but I can not seem to ADD Stage Collisions. Where exactly am I supposed to "Hold Alt and Left-Click " at?

I Alt+click on one collision and drag but nothing comes from it. I Alt+Click the empty space but nothing appears.
Heh, I am not sure if it is in the works... because I thought it could already be done. I guess I did not read maybe. Thanks for reading this.

 

[E-Jolteon]

Kryal, I've got a semi-bug to report.

If the last file I edited was in a location where I had a shortcut to my SD card, and my SD card is not plugged in:

Of course, seeing it just once wouldn't annoy me, but it seriously appears more than ten times, only to do the same thing(Work normally) afterward. This only happens if I try to bring up the Open dialogue, but if I open it just double-clicking in explorer, I don't have a problem.

Edit: Also:

Ooh! I double the request for scene data. Having to hex fog, lights, etc is a pain.

Triple it, but make it a low priority, since hexing it isn't hard.

 

[Wind Owl]

Kryal, why is it that SmashBox 0.57 can read smashbros_sound.brsar (for the mostpart) just fine, but 0.63 completely chokes on it (displays incorrect information)?

I also second the request for sound import/export, and if you could look into moving offsets around so we can replace longer/shorter files, that would be awesome, although I have to assume you've already done this with every other format that BrawlBox understands.

 

[Sails]

Like I've said, request a feature so you don't have to hex. This is the first time I've had a request for fogs/scene data. The idea is that you shouldn't have to do extra work hexing something I can throw in after a few days. Speak up with the format requests, consider hexing/exporting a crime!

Excellent! Haven't really poked around, so I wasn't sure how open to requests you are. Thanks