Brawl - More balanced than Melee? Lie or truth?

[Corigames]

Melee > Brawl

 

[thumbswayup]

brawl is 1000X more balanced than melee

Thank you for contributing absolutely nothing to this debate. And for being 100% wrong.

 

[victra♥]

It's almost impossible to have a balanced fighting game, thus there are always tiers. Always. There are so many characters, and once their metagame arises, certain characters will inevitably stand out from the rest, including Brawl. Brawl has a lot of dominate characters (ie: Snake, Wolf, Metaknight) just like Melee had their share (ie: Fox, Falco, Marth). Brawl seemed to be more balanced near the beginning of it's release for a short time only because it was new, but because more and more people began to explore the characters in greater detail, we found out Brawl wasn't very balanced at all. Heck, speaking non-strictly on characters, tripping caused Brawl to be unbalanced on it's own. With Melee, we were given the ability to L-Cancel, Wavedash and Dashdance. This helped a lot of characters who were initially thought of as slow to become fast enough to compete reasonably well with the initially fast characters such as Sheik and Fox. I use Ganondorf in Melee and my predominate way of movement is platform wavelands. You'd be surprise how much fast you'll travel, especially if you mix in dashdancing in there. Along with that, L-cancel sped up your game more than anything. All of this was removed in Brawl. Now in Brawl, characters like Ganondorf and Samus cannot compete against characters like Snake and Metaknight no matter what they do. They have to rely on mindgames, lucky aerials and a very defensive camping style causing a very drawn-out match which will almost always end with Snake/Wolf/Metaknight winning.

In short, Melee is more balanced than Brawl because it offered more options for poor characters to compete with the predominate top characters.

 

[thumbswayup]

In short, Melee is more balanced than Brawl because it offered more options for poor characters to compete with the predominate top characters.

This should be put on the first page.

 

[ripkirby]

In Melee, if you predicted what another person was going to do, such as roll, block, attack, etc., it was very easy to counter, using techniques such as wavedashing (Wavedashing, and Dashdancing is more than enough tools to space and catch people with).

Now in Brawl, it is almost impossible to catch a faster character, regardless of how good you are, without putting yourself in a very risky position (You cannot shield immediately after a dash like you could in melee. You cannot bait out an attack using dash and then quickly moving back out and in to punish; pivoting is way too slow, dd in brawl gives very little distance).


End result? A stale game that relies less on trickery and speed of the player and more on... counter picks and boring defensive/campy play.

Balance in brawl? Some matchups are so bad, it is ridiculous. At least in melee, everyone had access to speed that was greater than reflex time, that would be the tool to win bad matchups, outsmarting your opponent and good DI. Let's see someone DI out of DDD standing infinite. oh wait, that is set knockback, my bad.

Whoever made this game must be so bad at melee, to not even appreciate its depth and goes ahead and ruins it.

 

[ripkirby]

If you are big on tournaments, face it Melee has died. It is the Halo syndrome, the sequel comes out and the old one dies. Why? Because the base is popular base, not hardcore base.

Games like MvC2, CvS2, SF3, SF2T have been out for a long time, and I do not see their death in the foreseeable future.

Also, gameplay for lower level players is totally irrelevant for discussing balance. When it comes down to it... at higher level gameplay, Melee is so fast it is all about trickery, mind reading, or VERY FAST reflex time. Those 3 characteristics, I consider skill. If it ain't those 3 you using, and you win, game is broke.

 

[Emperor Mario]

If camping is the only reliable trategy to win, wouldn't that mean only characters with good projectiles will place high in the tier list? Thus someone like Ganon who Falcon who placed high in Melee but he didn't have any projectiles would suck in Brawl?

 

[Eggm]

Yea, because theres not like a 150 man melee tournament in georgia this summer, or smashtality which includes melee this summer. Theres also not a melee biweekly anywhere (like this saturday in my area) LOL. Wtf are you talking about ripkirby? But yeah, I agree with most of the other posts on this particular page so far. In melee there was tons of things you could be better at than your opponent due to the depth of the game, so if people mastered those aspects and were really comfortable with a low tier they could do well. Like KA-master wins loads of tournaments with luigi. And how BUM beat lots of people at MLG farmingdale and place 4th with donkey kong. Melee is much more balanced than super snake brothers patience f tilt out of shield.

 

[ripkirby]

Falcon and Ganon are both very bad in Brawl. They were good in Melee, I wish they just made the game Melee 1.1 (rebalance) instead of a New game, which came out to be absolutely boring. So funny, they call this game a party game. I find party games boring. I don't consider amusing effects to be FUN. You know what FUN is? Finding out who your opponent is, and beating him, knowing that you outsmarted him.

 

[Fawriel]

Melee is much more balanced than super snake brothers patience f tilt out of shield.

Super Smash Bros. Patience.
Brilliant.

 

[ripkirby]

Eggm, I might have exxagerated a bit, but still I believe that Brawl is gonna phase out Melee. It's popular appeal is way too great. There is going to be more money in Brawl (More players, more money), and the Melee tournaments are gonna get smaller and smaller over time until it is just the hardcore playing with themselves. The people who want to make money will go play Brawl.

 

[St. Viers]

^^there will be more money initally, but it will fade when people realize that it sucks as a competative game

 

[thumbswayup]

Or when someone trips into an f smash to lose 10 grand at an MLG event. I think the entire smash community will be laughed at when this happens.

 

[Zankoku]

Why wait for MLG? We'll get everyone to laugh at us as early as EVO >_>

 

[ripkirby]

I seriously do not understand why tripping is in this game. If they wanted the game to be random and fun (That was Sakurai's reasoning behind tripping, a "system of accidents" that would ensure that all players have a good time.), they should have made the game so that if you play random and risky, you will be rewarded, and make predictable attacks more easily punishable... again.. reaction time, trickery, or mind reading.

Effing every time I read Sakurai's comments on the game, I wanna like punch him in the face.

 

[thumbswayup]

Yay lol .

 

[Eggm]

There will be more money for like 6 months maybe a year at most, till the loads of casual gamers at the tournaments dissapear and move onto the next big thing which WILL happen, casuals feed the whole gaming industry for just that reason. Once the casuals move on the people who switched from melee to brawl will get bored since there not winning hundreds of dollars every weekend and either move onto some new game or back to melee. I don't see brawl lasting for more than a year max.

 

[dawgbowl]

Brawl is far more enjoyable IMO

Both games are wildly unbalanced when compared to... any other fighting game out there.
(everyone playing snake/wolf/meta)
(everyone playing falco/fox/shiek)
A couple people playing other characters in both.

Sounds like the same trend melee had.

You have to understand they aren't marketing, nor making, a super-serious fighting game that will last for years like 3rd strike and MvC2. They are making a "fun" fighting game, and this goes for all of them. You can take what they give you every 4-5 years and make the best of it, or just complain and continue to play it like i'm sure 90% of you are doing.

You guys are being way, way to picky. Games will never be perfect because everyone has their own definition of the word.

If you don't like brawl, don't play it.
If you like Melee, play it.
If you are so confident Melee is a better game then time will make that the tournament standard game again in a couple years.

Complaining wont change anything, it isn't SSBM2 so don't treat it like it is.

 

[St. Viers]

lol, wolf isn't that good. And in melee even lower tier characters had more of a chance than they do in brawl--pikachu, bowser, doc, ganon all could win against the top tiers. In brawl, it looks like the top tier characters are going to be completely broken...

 

[Corigames]

dawgbowl, if you don't mind me asking, how good were you at melee? You have any tournaments under your belt, state/national placings, or a spot on your region's Power Rank?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

There will be more money for like 6 months maybe a year at most, till the loads of casual gamers at the tournaments dissapear and move onto the next big thing which WILL happen, casuals feed the whole gaming industry for just that reason. Once the casuals move on the people who switched from melee to brawl will get bored since there not winning hundreds of dollars every weekend and either move onto some new game or back to melee. I don't see brawl lasting for more than a year max.

A lot of theory there...lol

How can you say it WILL happen? Casual gamers? At tournaments? I thought casual gamers DIDN'T go...

This is the Wii, there is no next big thing for casual gamers to move on to. What, Mario Kart? pfft

 

[Deleted member]

I think we'll have to wait and see when it comes to balance.

(Sorry if this thread has gotten off topic and my post is totallyirrelevant now.)

 

[Mr.C]

Melee is like a bad *** steak from like some bad *** restaurant all juicy, hot and super tasty, Brawl is like some lame *** schools cafeteria's left over chicken fingers.

 

[Demon Kirby]

Melee is like a bad *** steak from like some bad *** restaurant all juicy, hot and super tasty, Brawl is like some lame *** schools cafeteria's left over chicken fingers.

We haven't had enough metaphorical comparisons of Brawl and Melee yet. Please continue making them.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

If you are big on tournaments, face it Melee has died. It is the Halo syndrome, the sequel comes out and the old one dies. Why? Because the base is popular base, not hardcore base.

Games like MvC2, CvS2, SF3, SF2T have been out for a long time, and I do not see their death in the foreseeable future.

All of those games have fairly small competitive communities compared to Melee in the United States. MvC2 and SF3 are the strongest of those four, but I'm pretty sure Melee's competitive community dwarfs them both in terms of pure numbers and popularity across the country. Frankly, if those games can survive for as long as they have, Melee just may be able to as well. Street Fighter 3 didn't replace Street Fighter 2 entirely, and it's actually a pretty good game, unlike Brawl.

Both games are wildly unbalanced when compared to... any other fighting game out there

Every other fighting game in existence would like a word with you -- except for maybe the last two numbered Virtua Fighter games and the last two Guilty Gear XX revisions. Street Fighter games are easily as unbalanced as Smash and Marvel blows everything away easily.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Brawl is kind of weird, it is less of a fighting game than Melee, it seems more random, I think the inbalances are balanced out pretty well, ex. Jiggs is manueverable in the air but nothing more than a kickball when it has its feet on the ground, ZS Samus can stun a foe and then unleash any move, maybe many moves, with time to think about it, but lacks the brute force of say Ganondorf, who evens out his huge amounts of power with his turtle speed.
Seems more balanced as some characters in Melee, Roy, were fast, strong, heavy, decent recovery.

Basically, it has huge imbalances, yet logical design of these imbalances creates a fair gameplay where no character is shoved out of the game.
It is SSB series imbalances that make it such an outstanding game, when you must pit your strengths against his weaknesses.

 

[leafgreen386]

Brawl is kind of weird, it is less of a fighting game than Melee, it seems more random, I think the inbalances are balanced out pretty well, ex. Jiggs is manueverable in the air but nothing more than a kickball when it has its feet on the ground, ZS Samus can stun a foe and then unleash any move, maybe many moves, with time to think about it, but lacks the brute force of say Ganondorf, who evens out his huge amounts of power with his turtle speed.
Seems more balanced as some characters in Melee, Roy, were fast, strong, heavy, decent recovery.

Basically, it has huge imbalances, yet logical design of these imbalances creates a fair gameplay where no character is shoved out of the game.
It is SSB series imbalances that make it such an outstanding game, when you must pit your strengths against his weaknesses.

Even though roy was on the bottom half of the tier list, while marth was at the top. I really don't think I need to say anything more to prove you have no idea what you're talking about.

Although I will say that metaknight and snake have been dominating tournies in brawl, so that also shows what little knowledge you have of even brawl's metagame.

 

[Fletch]

Brawl is kind of weird, it is less of a fighting game than Melee, it seems more random, I think the inbalances are balanced out pretty well, ex. Jiggs is manueverable in the air but nothing more than a kickball when it has its feet on the ground, ZS Samus can stun a foe and then unleash any move, maybe many moves, with time to think about it, but lacks the brute force of say Ganondorf, who evens out his huge amounts of power with his turtle speed.
Seems more balanced as some characters in Melee, Roy, were fast, strong, heavy, decent recovery.

Basically, it has huge imbalances, yet logical design of these imbalances creates a fair gameplay where no character is shoved out of the game.
It is SSB series imbalances that make it such an outstanding game, when you must pit your strengths against his weaknesses.

Is this a joke post?

 

[Benjamin Linus]

Even though roy was on the bottom half of the tier list, while marth was at the top. I really don't think I need to say anything more to prove you have no idea what you're talking about.

Although I will say that metaknight and snake have been dominating tournies in brawl, so that also shows what little knowledge you have of even brawl's metagame.

First of all your retort was a poorly guided one. because roy was in the bottom half of the tier list has no relation to what he was saying. he wasnt saying roy was broken or abusable he was saying that in an idea of balance characters like roy make no sense. i will follow his idea and give a better example. A character like fox is fast and small however he had one of the most powerful up-smashes in the game. Sheik was a light, ninja-like character yet her forward air killed at about 110. (not including gimps). in brawl some of these inbalances were radified which makes the game seem "more balanced". however in terms of characters actual ability to all equally compete with each other i believe that melee is more balanced.

In brawl from what ive experienced even when high level pros, such as bum, use some of his other characters like samus or ganon he gets ***** by random people using DK, or Snake. In melee the low tier characters also got ***** really hard, but there were some ways to get around their big disadvantages. People like pichu mew2 and DK could all zero to death the top 2 characters in the game. In melee there were also gimps which allowed some of the low tiers like roy to get quick easy kills to make up for their terrible comboing ability. such things are absent in brawl and make it alot harder for low tiers to fight through their disadvantages.

Is this a joke post?

No, your post is a joke because you have a small comprehension level and you wasted space in this thread. if your going to post make it meaningful.

 

[Fawriel]

No, your post is a joke because you have a small comprehension level and you wasted space in this thread. if your going to post make it meaningful.

That's a major exaggeration, because, well, the example really made no sense. Roy is relatively slow, a lightweight, with a lousy recovery, and only has one or two powerful moves.

And yes, Brawl would be good if it actually made sense balance-wise.
Sure, it pulled it off in some cases, like how DK's up-smash is actually STRONG now as opposed to being impossible to hit with AND mediocre.

But then they completely messed up the whole game with a few characters who have nothing going for them and a few who practically have no weaknesses whatsoever.

 

[Sliq]

The only people capable of commenting on whether Melee is better than Brawl are the people that have played both competitively, which I'm guessing is 5% of the people in this thread.

"time for me to talk about something I don't know about, but act like I do! YAY INTERNET!"

 

[DiasFlac]

The only people capable of commenting on whether Melee is better than Brawl are the people that have played both competitively, which I'm guessing is 5% of the people in this thread.

"time for me to talk about something I don't know about, but act like I do! YAY INTERNET!"

I've played Melee. I've played Melee tounreys and I know your % is incorrect about how many played melee and like brawl more.

Whats with the "If you like brawl more your in idiot" thing? If someone likes brawl more then melee then thats their fact. They don't have to explain their reason or give a 3 page paragraph on the matter.

You have your choice if you like melee more then thats fine but don't go bashing those who like brawl more just because your dead set its not better.

"To each his own"

 

[Benjamin Linus]

That's a major exaggeration, because, well, the example really made no sense. Roy is relatively slow, a lightweight, with a lousy recovery, and only has one or two powerful moves.

And yes, Brawl would be good if it actually made sense balance-wise.
Sure, it pulled it off in some cases, like how DK's up-smash is actually STRONG now as opposed to being impossible to hit with AND mediocre.

But then they completely messed up the whole game with a few characters who have nothing going for them and a few who practically have no weaknesses whatsoever.

actually your incorrect. in the hands of someone capable roy could move just as fast as marth. Also who in the game has more than 2 powerful moves? by powerful im assuming you mean kill moves. everyone basically had only one or two but with other things like combos it allowed weaker hits to kill because they consecutively pushed an opponent too far from the stage.

i also disagree with you that brawl doesnt make sense balance-wise. who in brawl has moves that dont make sense hit strength wise?

The only people capable of commenting on whether Melee is better than Brawl are the people that have played both competitively, which I'm guessing is 5% of the people in this thread.

"time for me to talk about something I don't know about, but act like I do! YAY INTERNET!"

i hope this statement was not directed at me because i did play melee competitively. i have an extensive knowledge of it as well. if you dont believe me...

you main jiggs in melee. you were originally from the midwest. at pound three you participated in the crew battle. i dont remember who you faced. you were also in the midwest vs south crew battles at pound 2. you did really well also. you also flame noobs alot lol

 

[Zankoku]

actually your incorrect. in the hands of someone capable roy could move just as fast as marth. Also who in the game has more than 2 powerful moves? by powerful im assuming you mean kill moves. everyone basically had only one or two but with other things like combos it allowed weaker hits to kill because they consecutively pushed an opponent too far from the stage.

In the hands of someone capable Roy would avoid moving slow but still end up with attacks that incur huge cooldown time. This doesn't change the fact that Roy is lightweight, has extremely punishable finishing attacks (his fsmash is weaker, slower, and more punishable than Marth's. It also has less range.), falls too quickly to recover particularly effectively...

Nobody who knows what he's talking about would call Roy a good character.

i also disagree with you that brawl doesnt make sense balance-wise. who in brawl has moves that dont make sense hit strength wise?

i hope this statement was not directed at me because i did play melee competitively. i have an extensive knowledge of it as well. if you dont believe me...

you main jiggs in melee. you were originally from the midwest. at pound three you participated in the crew battle. i dont remember who you faced. you were also in the midwest vs south crew battles at pound 2. you did really well also. you also flame noobs alot lol

That's called being a stalker, not having an extensive knowledge of the game.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Ankoku won the argument.
Make sure you show the picture of Snake's F tilt.
Oh and mention how Marth's tip sometimes does not hit the opponent.

 

[Neo M.J]

That pic is so true. I hate snake now, even though when I first saw him at the trailer I so wanted to main him.

 

[Amarkov]

Brawl is quite clearly not a technical game. If your definition of "competitive game" requires that a game be technical... then yeah, Brawl isn't a good competitive game.

That does not, however, mean it isn't balanced. Snake and Meta are the best characters, but they're not so incredibly good that all other characters lose by default. It's true that a lot of the characters just die in tournaments, but I've never seen a game where that isn't the case.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

In the hands of someone capable Roy would avoid moving slow but still end up with attacks that incur huge cooldown time. This doesn't change the fact that Roy is lightweight, has extremely punishable finishing attacks (his fsmash is weaker, slower, and more punishable than Marth's. It also has less range.), falls too quickly to recover particularly effectively...

Nobody who knows what he's talking about would call Roy a good character.

That's called being a stalker, not having an extensive knowledge of the game.

i never said roy was a good character. i was arguing the fact that in comparison to roys physical build, the strength of his attacks technically dont make sense. which is the arguement the other person was making, i don't judge either game by this.

also you were wrong because roys fsmash probably deals just as much knockback as marths provided they both sweet-spot.

as for me being a stalker, im sorry i watch matches and try and learn from good players. i guess you could call me a stalker but you could also call all those other smashers who watch youtube matches stalkers as well. i used my knowledge of sliq to show that im not some kid who is just coming into the smash community.

Ankoku won the argument.
Make sure you show the picture of Snake's F tilt.
Oh and mention how Marth's tip sometimes does not hit the opponent.

ankoku did not win the argument because he was arguing something different from what i was saying. and if you notice i said strength wise not hitbox wise. snake is a big and heavy character so his hits should deal alot of damage and knockback. however he is also a frickin secret agent so they should be reasonable fast.

 

[Zankoku]

also you were wrong because roys fsmash probably deals just as much knockback as marths provided they both sweet-spot.

Less. Roy's got a pretty decent base knockback on a lot of his attacks, but Marth just wins all over the place after around 50%. How's that for attacks not making sense given physical build?

snake is a big and heavy character so his hits should deal alot of damage and knockback.

Bowser is bigger and heavier. Snake hits harder than Bowser.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well...doesn't Marth use a divine weapon?

>_>