Stand up: Intangible: 1-34, first actionable frame: 36
Roll: Intan: 1-26, FAF 50
Jump: Intan: 1-12, FAF 13
Attack: Intan: 1-19, Attack on: 20, FAF: 56
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Data Bowser's Moveset Data & Discussion
- Thread starter Jerodak
- Start date
Roll: Intan: 1-26, FAF 50
Jump: Intan: 1-12, FAF 13
Attack: Intan: 1-19, Attack on: 20, FAF: 56
MrEh
Smash Hero
2 frames of vulnerability seems ok. Can't complain.
Promise is a promise though.
brb drawing girl
Promise is a promise though.
brb drawing girl
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MrEh
Smash Hero
Here's my end of the bargain.
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MagiusNecros
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,176
Could be a girl or a girly guy.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Seems like a win-win to me.
I actually have a whole bunch of frame data ready to push through for Bowser. 
MrEh
Smash Hero
We'll have a goddamn doujin on our hands at this rate.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
How are these numbers in comparison to other more common characters?
Nothing special really. From my research, most characters (All?) only have 1 frame of vulnerability from ledge get up. Some characters just take a long time to get up from the ledge. Mii Brawler is the biggest example (I think his is 1-44, FAF 46).
I haven't really looked much into it. I will eventually though.
trombonophone99
Smash Cadet
I was messing around in training mode and noticed you could SH air dodge and nullify landing lag with a special (the special is used as if it were on the ground, no air dodge landing lag.) IDK how many people know about it, so I just thought it'd be nice to spotlight. Someone said something about air dodging from the ledge and cancelling lag with a special like that, so that must be where I got the idea.
I figure this might be useful for baits and approaching occasionally, since you can do grounded fortress with it or flying slam if they're abusing shield.
EDIT: Ah, here it is.
I figure this might be useful for baits and approaching occasionally, since you can do grounded fortress with it or flying slam if they're abusing shield.
EDIT: Ah, here it is.
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MagiusNecros
Smash Master
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- Nov 16, 2014
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Everyone knows about SHAD Special move cancels. Or should.
trombonophone99
Smash Cadet
Hm, I just never saw anything about it.
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
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Dumb question. Does dsmash have a suction effect at close proximity?
Hitman JT
The Infinite One
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No, but if they are hit by any of the side hitboxes, they are sucked into the rest of the attack, guaranteed.
@
Hitman JT
Yes. Additionally, power shield window lasts until frame 3.
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MagiusNecros
Smash Master
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So on hit it has a suction effect. Thanks.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
It probably isn't super safe, but it's an option, maybe not the type of option you'll get tons of mileage off of, but maybe something to keep in the pocket. This will probably see more use with fortress and side-b, but down b might still be thrown in since it's not terribly slow, and if you manage to airdodge through something punishable on the way up, it could net you the K.O
Also, it is very hilarious.
trombonophone99
Smash Cadet
@
Big Sean
I was using it a bit and I managed to get it with those inputs, not consistently tho. The inputs have to either be very fast, very precise, or (most likely) both. Maybe @
J
Jerodak
has a little tip to get it to work consistently. Otherwise, if I don't practice this I'll be suffering 22 frames for it lol.
On a side note, every time I've thought I found something revolutionary in the game it always turns out it was already discovered lol.
Alluding to the SHAD special cancels and when I first discovered waveslashing on my own, then my friend told me everyone already knew. Won't stop me from labbing tho.
Big Sean
I was using it a bit and I managed to get it with those inputs, not consistently tho. The inputs have to either be very fast, very precise, or (most likely) both. Maybe @
J
Jerodak
has a little tip to get it to work consistently. Otherwise, if I don't practice this I'll be suffering 22 frames for it lol.On a side note, every time I've thought I found something revolutionary in the game it always turns out it was already discovered lol.
Alluding to the SHAD special cancels and when I first discovered waveslashing on my own, then my friend told me everyone already knew. Won't stop me from labbing tho.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
Here are the inputs that I use assuming i'm hanging from the left ledge.
Tap <-, Jump + ->, Airdoge. This should work on most stages, but on stages with lips, like battlefield you might get "caught" on the lip on the way up. If that's the case, you have to neutral jump then press forward to drift onto the stage once you're past the lip, you can't move instage as far, but it still works. You can also use down instead of back if you want, just be careful since you could end up dropping like a rock if you mess up the inputs.
@
trombonophone99
Actually, yes, the inputs do need to be very fast and precise you have to make sure you're not inputting any of the buttons too early or too late there will probably be a lot of times when you accidentally ledge jump or just ledge drop airdodge, it takes getting used to, you basically have to treat it like doing a special move in a traditional fighting game. I recommend practicing on wall stages first to get used to it, then you can try harder stages like regular battlefield, I found it to be way easier on Omega battlefield for some reason.I found it easier to basically break it down into different phases, first by practicing the ledge drop input without drifting back, then turning that into a neutral jump off the ledge and regrabbing the ledge, then I add the airdodge, now you should be able to do a neutral jump airdodge and regrab the ledge without having to use up-b, once you're doing that consistently you can try the airdodge into the stage. Eventually, you should be able to consistently get the special cancel. Good luck!
Edit: And for those of you that like useless data!
Not sure if this was found yet or not, but I found out that upsmash can combo into itself, and, if the Opponent D.I's wrong, you can follow up with a Fair, or potentially a Bair. If the opponent DI's away then you probably won't get aerial combo follow-up, but you still have a significant amount of frame advantage where you can at least position yourself before the opponent can do anything.
Now as far as percentages that this works at, I can't give an exact number, but I know it only works at very low percents, and you have to hit with the back sourspot of upsmash. The front hit knocks them away from you, and the sweet spot has too much knockback, the sourspot on the back will knock them into you, causing them to land into the second hit for 21% I should probably note that I only tested this in training mode.
Here's a list of characters this worked on:
Ganondorf
Fox
Falco
Shiek
Metaknight
Diddy
Zero Suit Samus
Greninja
Megaman
Mii Brawler
I tried mashing jump and holding shield, the combo is legit, if it hits.
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MagiusNecros
Smash Master
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Sourspot bair could be great.
Already knew about upsmash combos.
Already knew about upsmash combos.
Boozer
Smash Apprentice
but you'll probably never get to see it because he hates me
who are youbut you'll probably never get to see it because he hates me
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
Dsmash's Multihits have three separate angles. Hitting a target to the right of you sends them left. Vice versa for a target to the left of you. And the third hitbox is located on the top portion of Bowser's shell, meteoring them into the other two hitboxes. Many multihit moves in this game are carefully programmed for enemies to not fall out until it is finished. Fortress is designed the same way, but without the meteor angle.
Bair has no sourspot.
Had a shower thought today about Bowser footstooling an airborne target and Dairing immediately for a spike. Sadly, it does not work on any characters in this game. At least, it doesn't work on Jiggs, who has the slowest falling speed. The initial spike hitbox doesn't last long enough for Bowser to reach them, even when frame perfect. I guess the only merit there is in this idea is maybe the opponent can't exit their footstooled tumble status fast enough to avoid the (sour) Dair followup or aerial Bomb.
Smash 4 is a poorly coded mess, like all other smash games prior tbh.
I have the Bowser data on my site right now but it's hidden from the public until I work out a few things regarding specials/kb values. Maybe I should just share the link with people who ask for it.
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
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I meant Upsmash actually. Bair was on the brain though.
Karsticles
Smash Journeyman
This is me, asking for it. :-D
Smash 4 is a poorly coded mess, like all other smash games prior tbh.
I have the Bowser data on my site right now but it's hidden from the public until I work out a few things regarding specials/kb values. Maybe I should just share the link with people who ask for it.
I want hitbox data so bad.
trombonophone99
Smash Cadet
I've lately been doing a lot of cute stuff with grounded grab releases. I think if they spam a spot dodge (or overmash and do a random move) after being released it's possible to get a free fsmash, and we love getting those. Of course someone who knows what they're doing won't let that happen. After being released the most logical thing to do would be to hold shield, since you can't get regrabbed (common knowledge). In that case, I've baited out reactions with a short dash into a delayed Bowser Bomb, and while it's a huge bargain, it also pays off immensely if you get it. After all, what's Smash without risks?
I was wondering what the frame data on grab releases is, if it's universally +0 for every character or something.
I was wondering what the frame data on grab releases is, if it's universally +0 for every character or something.
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
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I've found you usually get a a grounded grab release if you pummel them to death. Best option is usually to go for a Jab trap since jab will connect whether they like it or not.
Fsmash won't work on decent players unless you condition them first.
Fsmash won't work on decent players unless you condition them first.
Zapp Branniglenn
Smash Lord
I tested for grab release data in the past with Little Mac. I found that Mac would have -1 frame advantage, as characters with a frame 2 jab would clank with his frame 1 jab. This is of course when both characters are absolutely frame perfect in mashing. Human players are not typically expecting grab release in this game because guaranteed grab release combos are non existant compared to Brawl. Keep playing with it as a mixup, but don't expect it to work more than once in a match. An opponent's reactive shield can beat any attack you're planning.
As for whether -1 is consistent with all characters, I dunno. But I just performed the same test between Bowser's Frame 7 Jab, and Ganon's Frame 8 Jab. They clanked. I do notice there's a deviation in how far the opponent is pushed away from you upon release. Falcon, for instance, is too far away for Jab 1 to connect. And some characters like Wario aren't pushed far enough to be hit by the farthest hitbox angle of jab. I think grab release data is a worthy testing pursuit in the future.
As for whether -1 is consistent with all characters, I dunno. But I just performed the same test between Bowser's Frame 7 Jab, and Ganon's Frame 8 Jab. They clanked. I do notice there's a deviation in how far the opponent is pushed away from you upon release. Falcon, for instance, is too far away for Jab 1 to connect. And some characters like Wario aren't pushed far enough to be hit by the farthest hitbox angle of jab. I think grab release data is a worthy testing pursuit in the future.
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
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Tough Guy works on Shakunetsu Hadoken (the red one). At like any percent. If a Ryu uses it just run at them like the Bowser you are.
Corgian
Smash Apprentice
Ryu?
More like
Free-yu
No, but can we tough guy any of this other moves? Jabs? Any of the other hadokens?
MagiusNecros
Smash Master
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I think we can punch out his hadoken with Jab 1. Definitely Ftilt.
We need testing on him I think. Since he has light and strong attack variations.
behold! SHADC from the ledge: http://gfycat.com/EasygoingFewDromedary
You can do side b too which is faster.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
+0 if you don't pummel release them, but they release +1 if you pummel release them. Also, mind the grass, it can significantly affect the how your moves interact with each other because it makes them break out closer, which is fine in some cases but it can be an issue with a lot of characters.
@
Big Sean
See if you can make a GIF of airdodge from the ledge into idle stance. It seems to be fairly easy to do on stages without lips or on stages you can phase through, especially halberd. Try using down to ledge drop to make it a bit more managable. It's a bit harder to do, but I think it could be useful if applied well enough.Also, I've recently been using the Wii Pro controller again, (I've been using a Wii U pro up until now.) and I noticed that the airdodge from the ledge was a bit harder on that controller, speed snapping the ledge felt a little more difficult too, probabably due to the fact that the Wii U pro has smaller gates that are completely circular. However, the hexagonal gates on the wii pro is a lot better for using tilts thanks to tactile feedback. Anyway, I was wondering, what do you guys think about each controller set-up in relation to how Bowser plays? I was thinking about having some information put together on how one's controller choice may affect thier Bowser play. Keep in mind, i'm not asking what the best controller is, really more about tips on what one might do with any one particular controller and maybe some suggested button layouts with pros and cons to each one. Since he likes compiling information, maybe @
Zapp Branniglenn
would like to be in charge of putting everything together. I'd do it myself but I don't have regular access at the moment so that wouldn't be very effective.
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Zigsta
Disney Film Director
The OP needs to be updated to reflect the new stages that Bowser dies first on versus goes to Sudden Death after the latest patch. Offhand Smashville is now a Sudden Death stage (but Omega SV Bowser dies first, which is the EXACT OPPOSITE AS THE PREVIOUS PATCH WTF). I feel like I've seen this posted recently, but I can't remember exactly. Has anyone tested?
Jerodak
Smash Lord
If someone can link me to or message me the new list then I could make the changes. Although, to be entirely honest, it may be better to give control of the thread over to someone at least for the time being. I have limited access at the moment(I'm actually only able to post this by using a phone) and since my internet issues have persisted for much longer than I thought they would, it may be better if I'm not in charge of any important threads for the time being.
Edit: Please choose another stickman for the job. (:
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