Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Hey everyone,
This thread's been a long time coming--I apologize for the delay Truth is, my writing partner and I recently secured a manager, and we're rapidly developing a pitch along with a producer with the intent to go out to studios with our pitch next month. This is the next step to make our dreams of writing animation full time come true. Needless to say, Smash--and this thread--have taken a backseat as of late.
Now that THAT'S out of the way, there is one thing I'd like to clarify before I delve any further here. This thread is NOTHING personal against either Nyani, Chibo, or whoever were the Apex TOs. My intention with this thread is to bring an important issue to peoples' attention--an issue that I feel is grossly under-informed. I'm a nice guy who doesn't talk trash about people behind their backs--so please do not derail the intentions of this thread. Frankly, the at times childish drama of the Smash community was one of the factors that led to me stop playing Brawl competitively several years ago. Anyone who intentionally derails this thread with pointless drama and does not contribute meaningfully to the conversation will be dealt with.
Also, please don't try to educate me on how to play Bowser. If your name isn't Zigsta, odds are I've put a lot more time in my character than you have.
MOVING RIGHT ALONG THEN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
Hi! My name is Zigsta. (I feel like there's a lot of new people in the Smash 4 scene, so I figured I'd introduce myself quickly.) I made a name for myself as one of the premiere Bowser players in Brawl, largely due to the fact that I was born in Louisiana, went to college in Texas, and moved to California after graduation--which all led to me naturally travelling and playing a wide variety of players. Given the fact that the other notable Bowsers in Brawl practically never traveled to tournaments (MrEh in Hawaii, Limit in NY, KingKong in Canada, and Uncle in the Carolinas), I quickly became the face of Brawl Bowser. It's still an honor to me to this day when people tell me that when they see Bowser they think of me, or an aspect of Bowser's personality reminds them of my personality. To know that me simply being me embodies the very same character I play is a beautiful and humbling thing. He's a character I love through and through, and without Bowser, I likely wouldn't have stayed with the competitive Smash scene.
I recently attended Apex 2015. Going to Apex was always a goal of mine. I had actually planned on attending Apex years ago--twice--with different things coming up both times. The first time my best friend's wedding (where I stood as the best man) was moved up a week to Apex weekend, and the second time I decided to call it quits several months prior. With Bowser being vastly improved from Brawl (but not as improved as most people incorrectly assumed when the game first came out--Bowser most noticeably misses his decreased jab and Klaw ranges along with Klaw's lack of grab armor), I felt like Apex 2015 was a perfect way to see how my Bowser stacked up against emerging playstyles from all over the world. I was completely stoked. I was given the third seed in my pool, with FOW and Nyani being ranked above me. I didn't just feel good about my odds. I felt DAMN GOOD. Both Smashers use characters who don't take massive dumps on Bowser. My body was ready.
Nyani (who was very kind throughout our set, often complimenting me on moves I used that she wasn't expecting) and I played in winners semis, with the winner moving on to face FOW. I won a commanding game one against her Mario. Game two she went Pit (and I have to sidebar here to say I always take it as the highest form of compliment when someone changes characters on me in a tournament set), and Nyani squeaked out a very close win. Game three I counterpick Town and City (one of my personal favorites as Bowser thanks to the variety of high platforms to maneuver Bowser's massive blindspot), and at this point I've definitely figured out Nyani's Pit's style. We ultimately end up on our last stock, with me at about 30% and Nyani at about 130%.
At this point I need to illustrate an important part of competitive Bowser strategy that a lot of players--even competitive ones--don't realize is intentional, especially if they didn't have a competent Bowser to practice with (since there weren't many in Brawl sadly). As a Bowser player, my goal is to make you shield more often than usual. The number one way to make someone sit in their shield is to make them scared of what you're going to do next. And the two biggest ways I scare opponents are A) throw out big, strong hitboxes with high amounts of knockback or B) abuse jab cancel mixups, making it so that my opponent doesn't know which followup is coming next. As Bowser, I WANT to force my opponent closer and closer to the ledge with these two aforementioned tactics...and THEN I want them to shield when they realize they have no more stage to run. As soon as I see someone shielding by the ledge--again, all based on me using tactics to make them scared and pinning them in a corner--I go for a Koopa Klaw (technically Flying Slam, but that's just an awful name) since it's a command grab that goes through shield. In Brawl, both Bowser and his opponent always have some degree of control over the direction of Klaw after the Klaw has landed; however, it's entirely percentage dependent. Whoever has the lower percent has the most degree of control, and this degree of control is further exaggerated the larger the difference in percentage is between Bowser and the opponent. And if I go offstage, the end result is what's called a Koopacide.
In Brawl, the winner of the Koopacide was port dependent. In Smash 4, Bowser always won, regardless of port, prior to the "balance patch." In both Brawl and Smash 4, Bowser could actually jump out of the Koopacide by inputting a jump just as he hits the blastzone. This makes it in Brawl so that Bowser always wins by Koopacide regardless of port--as long as the Bowser is competent enough in his input timing. Jumping out was far easier in Smash 3DS.
After the "balance patch," though, Bowser dies first (even though his body is on top of the opponent...) on MOST stages. Some stages the game actually goes to Sudden Death, which most people don't even realize. In fact, I was once even told by a TO that he didn't believe me!! Try it for yourself--go into Training Mode, set a CPU to JUMP, and Koopacide. If you're on a stage where Bowser dies first, your opponent will jump out. If you're on a stage where the game goes to Sudden Death, you'll go to Sudden Death. I've put the full list of stages (albeit only ones that are used in tournaments) in the collapsed box below:
OK, so now we're all caught up on the tactics used by competitive Bowsers as well as how Koopacide functions. Let's get back to game 3.
Nyani shields. I have 3 options in my mind:
A) Bowser Bomb.
B) Grab.
C) Klaw.
I actually scored the winning KO game 1 by Bowser Bombing Nyani's shield, causing it to break and her to fall to her doom. So I didn't want to do the same trick twice. Plus if she knew how to react to the move after seeing it earlier, I would have a lot of end lag, which could potentially allow her to hit me offstage, which would put me in a bad position against a Pit with high rage. Not good. Grab wouldn't have as much end lag as Bowser Bomb, but running up and grabbing someone shielding by the ledge is pretty much the most expected option.
I opt for Klaw because even if she spotdodges, Klaw has the least amount of lag out of the aforementioned three options. It's by far the less risky, end lag wise of the three.
I also went for Klaw specifically because--and this is the REAL kicker here--I was told by an Apex TO prior to the tournament (because I specifically asked) that Bowser was included in the Suicide Clause. So I went for the Koopacide and intentionally aimed offstage, knowing full well that Town and City results in a loss for Bowser on the results screen.
As the results came up, Chibo and Nyani jumped for joy, and Chibo whipped out the Apex ruleset on his phone and said Nyani wins because "Apex rules, Apex rules!!" I asked to have the TO I spoke with earlier brought over, who apparently wasn't there. Someone went and spoke with the almighty TOs who basically told me tough ****, you lose.
I was crushed. Devastated. I felt like I wasted my money and time by flying all the way to the other side of the country only to get cheesed by a clause in a ruleset--a clause that in other regions, including my region of SoCal (and my previous regions of Louisiana and Texas), includes Bowser. But too bad, because no one in charge seemed to have a care in the world.
My next round I played a Sonic main from Pennsylvania (I believe) named Phoenix Dark, and I really need to give a shoutout to this guy. My pool leader kept trying to get me to IMMEDIATELY play my next match in losers, but I insisted that I hear from a TO on whether I lost or not. Phoenix Dark expressed his condolences to me many times before we even began playing--and it was especially needed because frankly, the last thing I wanted to do at that point was play more Smash at this awful tournament. I barely win game 3.
Next round I don't even remember the name of the person I played, but I felt completely out of it. His Mario barely beat me game one. Then game two he shield in the middle of the stage, and I Klaw him when he's at 140% and I'm at 20%. I aim in the center of the stage towards the platform, and he aims offstage...and thanks to Smash 4 mechanics, sometimes the game randomly lets Bowser's opponent have more control over Klaw even when there's a vast chasm in percentages. I unplugged my controller and said "good game" even though my opponent AND his friends were laughing at me. Because he made a poor move (shielding) and I got punished for it.
So the long story is this--I won't EVER be going back to Apex, or to ANY tournament that doesn't include Bowser in the Suicide Clause.
Bowser isn't a popular character. He's more popular in this game, but less and less Smashers play him every day as they realize he takes a lot of work to use against the better characters in the game. (Looking at you, Sheik!!) And whenever there's an issue with an unpopular, rarer character, there's generally a lot less buzz regarding issues around said character.
I'm here to represent all other Bowser mains in saying that not including Bowser in the Suicide Clause is a MAJOR issue. What happened to me can happen to anyone. Period.
Tournament Organizers, please consider adding Bowser to your respective Suicide Clauses. Top Players, please recognize the atrocity of allowing the punisher of a carefully executed plan to be punished.
Please stand with me and lend me your support.
This thread's been a long time coming--I apologize for the delay Truth is, my writing partner and I recently secured a manager, and we're rapidly developing a pitch along with a producer with the intent to go out to studios with our pitch next month. This is the next step to make our dreams of writing animation full time come true. Needless to say, Smash--and this thread--have taken a backseat as of late.
Now that THAT'S out of the way, there is one thing I'd like to clarify before I delve any further here. This thread is NOTHING personal against either Nyani, Chibo, or whoever were the Apex TOs. My intention with this thread is to bring an important issue to peoples' attention--an issue that I feel is grossly under-informed. I'm a nice guy who doesn't talk trash about people behind their backs--so please do not derail the intentions of this thread. Frankly, the at times childish drama of the Smash community was one of the factors that led to me stop playing Brawl competitively several years ago. Anyone who intentionally derails this thread with pointless drama and does not contribute meaningfully to the conversation will be dealt with.
Also, please don't try to educate me on how to play Bowser. If your name isn't Zigsta, odds are I've put a lot more time in my character than you have.
MOVING RIGHT ALONG THEN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
Hi! My name is Zigsta. (I feel like there's a lot of new people in the Smash 4 scene, so I figured I'd introduce myself quickly.) I made a name for myself as one of the premiere Bowser players in Brawl, largely due to the fact that I was born in Louisiana, went to college in Texas, and moved to California after graduation--which all led to me naturally travelling and playing a wide variety of players. Given the fact that the other notable Bowsers in Brawl practically never traveled to tournaments (MrEh in Hawaii, Limit in NY, KingKong in Canada, and Uncle in the Carolinas), I quickly became the face of Brawl Bowser. It's still an honor to me to this day when people tell me that when they see Bowser they think of me, or an aspect of Bowser's personality reminds them of my personality. To know that me simply being me embodies the very same character I play is a beautiful and humbling thing. He's a character I love through and through, and without Bowser, I likely wouldn't have stayed with the competitive Smash scene.
I recently attended Apex 2015. Going to Apex was always a goal of mine. I had actually planned on attending Apex years ago--twice--with different things coming up both times. The first time my best friend's wedding (where I stood as the best man) was moved up a week to Apex weekend, and the second time I decided to call it quits several months prior. With Bowser being vastly improved from Brawl (but not as improved as most people incorrectly assumed when the game first came out--Bowser most noticeably misses his decreased jab and Klaw ranges along with Klaw's lack of grab armor), I felt like Apex 2015 was a perfect way to see how my Bowser stacked up against emerging playstyles from all over the world. I was completely stoked. I was given the third seed in my pool, with FOW and Nyani being ranked above me. I didn't just feel good about my odds. I felt DAMN GOOD. Both Smashers use characters who don't take massive dumps on Bowser. My body was ready.
Nyani (who was very kind throughout our set, often complimenting me on moves I used that she wasn't expecting) and I played in winners semis, with the winner moving on to face FOW. I won a commanding game one against her Mario. Game two she went Pit (and I have to sidebar here to say I always take it as the highest form of compliment when someone changes characters on me in a tournament set), and Nyani squeaked out a very close win. Game three I counterpick Town and City (one of my personal favorites as Bowser thanks to the variety of high platforms to maneuver Bowser's massive blindspot), and at this point I've definitely figured out Nyani's Pit's style. We ultimately end up on our last stock, with me at about 30% and Nyani at about 130%.
At this point I need to illustrate an important part of competitive Bowser strategy that a lot of players--even competitive ones--don't realize is intentional, especially if they didn't have a competent Bowser to practice with (since there weren't many in Brawl sadly). As a Bowser player, my goal is to make you shield more often than usual. The number one way to make someone sit in their shield is to make them scared of what you're going to do next. And the two biggest ways I scare opponents are A) throw out big, strong hitboxes with high amounts of knockback or B) abuse jab cancel mixups, making it so that my opponent doesn't know which followup is coming next. As Bowser, I WANT to force my opponent closer and closer to the ledge with these two aforementioned tactics...and THEN I want them to shield when they realize they have no more stage to run. As soon as I see someone shielding by the ledge--again, all based on me using tactics to make them scared and pinning them in a corner--I go for a Koopa Klaw (technically Flying Slam, but that's just an awful name) since it's a command grab that goes through shield. In Brawl, both Bowser and his opponent always have some degree of control over the direction of Klaw after the Klaw has landed; however, it's entirely percentage dependent. Whoever has the lower percent has the most degree of control, and this degree of control is further exaggerated the larger the difference in percentage is between Bowser and the opponent. And if I go offstage, the end result is what's called a Koopacide.
In Brawl, the winner of the Koopacide was port dependent. In Smash 4, Bowser always won, regardless of port, prior to the "balance patch." In both Brawl and Smash 4, Bowser could actually jump out of the Koopacide by inputting a jump just as he hits the blastzone. This makes it in Brawl so that Bowser always wins by Koopacide regardless of port--as long as the Bowser is competent enough in his input timing. Jumping out was far easier in Smash 3DS.
After the "balance patch," though, Bowser dies first (even though his body is on top of the opponent...) on MOST stages. Some stages the game actually goes to Sudden Death, which most people don't even realize. In fact, I was once even told by a TO that he didn't believe me!! Try it for yourself--go into Training Mode, set a CPU to JUMP, and Koopacide. If you're on a stage where Bowser dies first, your opponent will jump out. If you're on a stage where the game goes to Sudden Death, you'll go to Sudden Death. I've put the full list of stages (albeit only ones that are used in tournaments) in the collapsed box below:
Normal Stage Sudden Death
Final Destination
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Custom Stages (wont be used, but thought it would be nice to know)
Duck Hunt
Normal Stage Bowser Dies First
Battlefield
Town and City
Skyloft
Halberd
Mushroom Kingdom U
Lylat
Town and City
Pilotwings
Wuhu Island
Wooly World
Yoshi's Island
Smashville
Omega Stage Sudden Death
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Mario Circuit
Mario Circuit (Brawl)
Bridge of Eldin
Pyrosphere
Norfair
Port Town Aero Drive
Wooly World
Yoshi's Island
Great Cave Offensive
Orbital Gate Assault
Mario Galaxy
Palutena's Temple
Skyworld
Garden of Hope
Wii Fit Studio
Gaur Plain
75m
Wrecking Crew
Pilotwings
Wuhu Island
Wily Castle
Smashville
Duck Hunt
Omega Stage Bowser DIes First
Skyloft
Battlefield
Mushroom Kingdom U
Luigi's Mansion
Jungle Hijinks
Hyrule Temple
Lylat Cruise
Kalos Pokemon League
Onett
Coliseum
Castle Seige
Gamer
Town and City
Boxing Ring
Windy Hill Zone
Final Destination
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Custom Stages (wont be used, but thought it would be nice to know)
Duck Hunt
Normal Stage Bowser Dies First
Battlefield
Town and City
Skyloft
Halberd
Mushroom Kingdom U
Lylat
Town and City
Pilotwings
Wuhu Island
Wooly World
Yoshi's Island
Smashville
Omega Stage Sudden Death
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Mario Circuit
Mario Circuit (Brawl)
Bridge of Eldin
Pyrosphere
Norfair
Port Town Aero Drive
Wooly World
Yoshi's Island
Great Cave Offensive
Orbital Gate Assault
Mario Galaxy
Palutena's Temple
Skyworld
Garden of Hope
Wii Fit Studio
Gaur Plain
75m
Wrecking Crew
Pilotwings
Wuhu Island
Wily Castle
Smashville
Duck Hunt
Omega Stage Bowser DIes First
Skyloft
Battlefield
Mushroom Kingdom U
Luigi's Mansion
Jungle Hijinks
Hyrule Temple
Lylat Cruise
Kalos Pokemon League
Onett
Coliseum
Castle Seige
Gamer
Town and City
Boxing Ring
Windy Hill Zone
OK, so now we're all caught up on the tactics used by competitive Bowsers as well as how Koopacide functions. Let's get back to game 3.
Nyani shields. I have 3 options in my mind:
A) Bowser Bomb.
B) Grab.
C) Klaw.
I actually scored the winning KO game 1 by Bowser Bombing Nyani's shield, causing it to break and her to fall to her doom. So I didn't want to do the same trick twice. Plus if she knew how to react to the move after seeing it earlier, I would have a lot of end lag, which could potentially allow her to hit me offstage, which would put me in a bad position against a Pit with high rage. Not good. Grab wouldn't have as much end lag as Bowser Bomb, but running up and grabbing someone shielding by the ledge is pretty much the most expected option.
I opt for Klaw because even if she spotdodges, Klaw has the least amount of lag out of the aforementioned three options. It's by far the less risky, end lag wise of the three.
I also went for Klaw specifically because--and this is the REAL kicker here--I was told by an Apex TO prior to the tournament (because I specifically asked) that Bowser was included in the Suicide Clause. So I went for the Koopacide and intentionally aimed offstage, knowing full well that Town and City results in a loss for Bowser on the results screen.
As the results came up, Chibo and Nyani jumped for joy, and Chibo whipped out the Apex ruleset on his phone and said Nyani wins because "Apex rules, Apex rules!!" I asked to have the TO I spoke with earlier brought over, who apparently wasn't there. Someone went and spoke with the almighty TOs who basically told me tough ****, you lose.
I was crushed. Devastated. I felt like I wasted my money and time by flying all the way to the other side of the country only to get cheesed by a clause in a ruleset--a clause that in other regions, including my region of SoCal (and my previous regions of Louisiana and Texas), includes Bowser. But too bad, because no one in charge seemed to have a care in the world.
My next round I played a Sonic main from Pennsylvania (I believe) named Phoenix Dark, and I really need to give a shoutout to this guy. My pool leader kept trying to get me to IMMEDIATELY play my next match in losers, but I insisted that I hear from a TO on whether I lost or not. Phoenix Dark expressed his condolences to me many times before we even began playing--and it was especially needed because frankly, the last thing I wanted to do at that point was play more Smash at this awful tournament. I barely win game 3.
Next round I don't even remember the name of the person I played, but I felt completely out of it. His Mario barely beat me game one. Then game two he shield in the middle of the stage, and I Klaw him when he's at 140% and I'm at 20%. I aim in the center of the stage towards the platform, and he aims offstage...and thanks to Smash 4 mechanics, sometimes the game randomly lets Bowser's opponent have more control over Klaw even when there's a vast chasm in percentages. I unplugged my controller and said "good game" even though my opponent AND his friends were laughing at me. Because he made a poor move (shielding) and I got punished for it.
So the long story is this--I won't EVER be going back to Apex, or to ANY tournament that doesn't include Bowser in the Suicide Clause.
Bowser isn't a popular character. He's more popular in this game, but less and less Smashers play him every day as they realize he takes a lot of work to use against the better characters in the game. (Looking at you, Sheik!!) And whenever there's an issue with an unpopular, rarer character, there's generally a lot less buzz regarding issues around said character.
I'm here to represent all other Bowser mains in saying that not including Bowser in the Suicide Clause is a MAJOR issue. What happened to me can happen to anyone. Period.
Tournament Organizers, please consider adding Bowser to your respective Suicide Clauses. Top Players, please recognize the atrocity of allowing the punisher of a carefully executed plan to be punished.
Please stand with me and lend me your support.