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Bandana Dee, the Spear Master! (v(- ' ' -)>↑ ~ Dee wait is killing us...

Do you want Bandana Dee in SSB4?


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Flying_Skitty

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The "helper system" refers to how the concept was introduced in Kirby Super Star. Basically, the idea is that Bandana Dee's main gimmick would be to summon enemies that will have their own ai to attack other players. You would have very limited control over them, they just act like enemies in smash run to opposing players.

I usually focus it as his neutral special, with the other specials focusing on spear moves like spear toss for side, and spear copter for up.

Activating what helper you want would be essentially like activating a monado art. If you want to get rid of them manually, just stand next to them and press b. I think it sounds simple.
I would like the B Button to be the traditional Waddle Jump. Wait…

I just realized how easy it would to make Bandana Dee a character. Just take the Smash Run Model of a Waddle Dee.

I enjoy fighting against R.O.B. cause he's so tall, meaning he's easy to combo. I just wish he didn't have the Gyro, it screws me up so much.
I wreck Mario and anyone with bad recoveries by using the gyro after their first air jump. Few people can survive it though.
 
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D

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I just realized how easy it would to make Bandana Dee a character. Just take the Smash Run Model of a Waddle Dee.
No.
While it may pass off for a model for in-game 3DS, an updated model would have to be made for still images, victory screens, etc. and a entirely new model would have to be made for Wii U.
 

Crumb Bone

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The "helper system" refers to how the concept was introduced in Kirby Super Star. Basically, the idea is that Bandana Dee's main gimmick would be to summon enemies that will have their own ai to attack other players. You would have very limited control over them, they just act like enemies in smash run to opposing players.

I usually focus it as his neutral special, with the other specials focusing on spear moves like spear toss for side, and spear copter for up.

Activating what helper you want would be essentially like activating a monado art. If you want to get rid of them manually, just stand next to them and press b. I think it sounds simple.
While that does sound like it would make for a fun character (one that I would very much enjoy playing), I don't think that having Bandana Dee be able to create helpers would be true to his character. Helpers only appeared in Kirby Super Star and Kirby Super Star Ultra, while Bandana Dee only appeared in Megaton Punch, and Revenge of the King in Ultra. Helpers don't appear in Megaton Punch, but they can appear in Revenge of the King; however helpers are on Kirby's side, and Bandana Dee is on King Dedede's side, so they aren't associated with each other.

From the Kirby Wiki's Helper page:
  • Although Kirby GCN was revised as Kirby's Return to Dream Land, the latter removed the Helper system, replacing Helpers with King Dedede, Meta Knight, Waddle Dee, and Kirbys of various colors.
So not only does Bandana Dee have little to do with helpers, his first major appearance (Kirby's Return to Dream Land) seemed to have actually overthrown the helper system as a whole.

As a side note, if the helper system was to be implemented with Bandana Dee, I think it would infringe on the uniqueness of Rosalina and the Ice Climbers. But I don't think they would even try because of the 3DS limitations, as a helper sounds about as complicated as Nana.

With no other spear wielding characters in the Smash roster, I don't think Bandana Dee would need too much help finding his own niche. :)
 
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wizardto1

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Let's have BD summon Smash Run Bonkers as a helper and he'll be banned within a week. :smirk:
 

Shiny Porygon

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Judging from this picture posted earlier..



When Kirby is in his tank transformation, Bandana Dee gets a cannon on his head in the top right corner. (We knew this from a while ago)

The one in the bottom line is difficult to tell, though. I can't tell if it's a jet plane, or a submarine. What do you guys think?
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Judging from this picture posted earlier..



When Kirby is in his tank transformation, Bandana Dee gets a cannon on his head in the top right corner. (We knew this from a while ago)

The one in the bottom line is difficult to tell, though. I can't tell if it's a jet plane, or a submarine. What do you guys think?
Sub, there's a thing on his head
 

CatRaccoonBL

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While that does sound like it would make for a fun character (one that I would very much enjoy playing), I don't think that having Bandana Dee be able to create helpers would be true to his character. Helpers only appeared in Kirby Super Star and Kirby Super Star Ultra, while Bandana Dee only appeared in Megaton Punch, and Revenge of the King in Ultra. Helpers don't appear in Megaton Punch, but they can appear in Revenge of the King; however helpers are on Kirby's side, and Bandana Dee is on King Dedede's side, so they aren't associated with each other.

From the Kirby Wiki's Helper page:
  • Although Kirby GCN was revised as Kirby's Return to Dream Land, the latter removed the Helper system, replacing Helpers with King Dedede, Meta Knight, Waddle Dee, and Kirbys of various colors.
So not only does Bandana Dee have little to do with helpers, his first major appearance (Kirby's Return to Dream Land) seemed to have actually overthrown the helper system as a whole.

As a side note, if the helper system was to be implemented with Bandana Dee, I think it would infringe on the uniqueness of Rosalina and the Ice Climbers. But I don't think they would even try because of the 3DS limitations, as a helper sounds about as complicated as Nana.

With no other spear wielding characters in the Smash roster, I don't think Bandana Dee would need too much help finding his own niche. :)
It doesn't matter if the helper system is true to his character. Just like how Duck hunt is fine not being true to his character. Despite the fact he has a gimmick thats not really associated with him, they both keep major parts of why people love them. Their personalities and Bandana Dee's spear in this case.

In fact, the helper system goes amazingly with his character. There is mode called "Helper to Hero" which looking at the name applies helpers are pathetic. This goes along great with Bandana Dee, who along with Waddle Dees, have also been shown to be pretty pathetic as enemies at times.

But now here's the main kicker of why it works. Why was there a helper to hero mode in Superstar ultra? They didn't need to put that in. This was remake of Super star after all. They put it in because the enemies of Kirby are widely loved. Don't believe me? Read the thread title. Heck, a lot of people able to recognize names of the enemies. Everyone in this thread should know who I'm talking about when I say things like, "Chilly," "Sir Kibble," "Poppy Bros Jr," and of course "Waddle Dee."

People also can't get enough of the villains. How many times have you heard people talk about Marx, Zero, or Magolor?

So here we have the most popular enemy being Waddle Dee. How do we make that better? By allowing players to summon their other favorite enemies while still maintaining his spear moveset.

And thats the key, what does adding the helper system take away exactly? It's one neutral special, with everything else being based on his spear. In fact, I only ever hear ideas for 3 neutral specials. Spear copter, spear toss, and moon drop. There is nothing else people can agree on. So why not give him one of the most unique specials in the game?

It does not take away, only adds.

Everything about him would still be Bandana Dee.

For infringing on the uniqueness of Rosalina and Ice climbers I disagree. The thing about those two is that you have control. No matter what you do, they are doing it because you told them to.

The thing about helpers is they do whatever they want when they see an enemy. This allows a much different strategic options. One that require the Bandana Dee main to have utmost attention on what the helper is doing. Trying to find openings to where the opponent tries to attack the wrong person.

Lastly, giving them either 30fps like assist trophies or 15 fps like the pikmin should help. Not to mention the kirby enemies are simple design in shape like Luma, so unlike Nana they shouldn't be too complicated. Especially if you aren't controlling them. They would also have a limited movepool so they wouldn't be as advanced as Nana.
 

Flying_Skitty

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No.
While it may pass off for a model for in-game 3DS, an updated model would have to be made for still images, victory screens, etc. and a entirely new model would have to be made for Wii U.
There are Waddle Dee models in the Wii U version. They are in the King Dedede intro andvictory screen. The animation will have to be edited to make a full-fledged character, but it is easier than doing it from scratch.
 

Aunt Jemima

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Just because I really like the idea of the Helper System, I'll go into a bit of detail on how I'd personally like it to work.

General Information

As one of Bandana Dee's gimmicks, he'd have the ability to spawn Helpers from Kirby Super Star. He would spawn these using his Neutral B, with the selection going through similar to the Monado Arts. All Helpers have health, and will stay out until defeated. After being defeated, the helper that was defeated can no longer be spawned in until Bandana Dee loses a stock, or after all the different Helpers have been used. They act on their own similar to those in Super Star, but will generally stick near Bandana Dee and only attack when necessary. However, they're still a bit dumb, so they'll end up running in at bad times. If Bandana Dee is being hurt, they'll come to his aid and try to help. All of the Helpers only have a couple attacks, and do NOT have recovery moves. They do have mid-air jumps, though, which will help them recover if knocked off. They won't be stuck in tumble forever like Luma is, so there's no need to worry about them dying incredibly early.

Anyways, onto the different helpers!

Waddle Doo



An obvious choice as a Helper, Waddle Doo is the first in line. He has decent health, able to take 40% before biting the dust. He has three different attacks. The first attack is his standard attack, the Beam Whip. A line of energy shoots out of him, going from a 45 degree angle above him to the same area below him. This move leaves him open to be counter-attacked if missed, but covers a wide range to attack both aerial and grounded goes. It does 8% damage.

His second attack is his mid-air attack, the Beam Blast. This move is Waddle Doo's main attack he uses while airborne, where he shoots many small energy bolts diagonally downwards, and keeps himself in the air a bit longer. Similar to the Beam Whip, if this attack misses, he can easily be punished. If all hits connect, the move does a total of 13%.

His third and final attack is Wave Beam. After fully charging the move, he can unleash a large, fast, and powerful energy blast that travels through enemies while damaging them (ie: Thoron without multi-hit properties). If he is successful in landing this attack, it deals a total of 20% damage. However, this attack is HIGHLY punishable if missed, and can usually result in him taking massive damage. He's probably going to need time to charge this move, too, so you'll have to help him.

---

Will edit this post with more Helper details in a bit!
 

kirby_queen

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I really don't understand the suggestion in regards to the helper system. It was Kirby who was able to summon an ally, not Bandana Dee. He has nothing to do with that ability. Maybe I can see him summoning other Waddle Dee and maybe a Waddle Doo as he is the Spear CAPTAIN and maybe he'd have soldiers to lead but... other than that I don't get it. I'd be more inclined to think any other ally helping him as his subordinate more than anything to do with the helper system.
 
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Chandeelure

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Cogratulations Reserved, for being a moderator.

About the helpers.
Hmmm like kirby_queen, I don't understand the concept so much because that's Kirby's ability, but meh, I just want to play as Bandana Dee in Smash.

Personally, I'm fine with Bandana Dee using his spear without a weird mechanic or gimmick.


Also, I need more ideas for my avatars XDD
 
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wizardto1

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I'm personally okay with no gimmicks

limited tomes has screwed my recovery over so many times.
Yeah, I'm fine with no gimmicks as long as I can play as BD.
Also, lol, my Elwind recovery never runs out for some reason. XD
 

Banana Waffle Deed

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It doesn't matter if the helper system is true to his character. Just like how Duck hunt is fine not being true to his character. Despite the fact he has a gimmick thats not really associated with him, they both keep major parts of why people love them. Their personalities and Bandana Dee's spear in this case.
No offense, but why have Bandana Dee as playable character if any character can have a move that's not associated with it? Why not shove in a hugely popular character like Marx for the purpose of having random moves not even related to him? I personally think it's about as random as Magolor using the same gimmick.

The reason why DHD works with the NES zapper moves and all those other gimmicks because when you think of DHD you think of Duck Hunt (the game), ducks, the zapper (using it as an actual hunting gun), how this game is retro and DHD himself.

All those moves fall into these categories, the gunmen and TNT fall into the retro categories (The gunman also fall into the Zapper category because they're from a game that used the zapper as well), his smash attacks fall into the NES zapper (and the fact that people have been to attempt to shoot him in anger) category and etc.

All of this works because these things are in groupings that are associated with DHD.

In fact, the helper system goes amazingly with his character. There is mode called "Helper to Hero" which looking at the name applies helpers are pathetic. This goes along great with Bandana Dee, who along with Waddle Dees, have also been shown to be pretty pathetic as enemies at times.

But now here's the main kicker of why it works. Why was there a helper to hero mode in Superstar ultra? They didn't need to put that in. This was remake of Super star after all. They put it in because the enemies of Kirby are widely loved. Don't believe me? Read the thread title. Heck, a lot of people able to recognize names of the enemies. Everyone in this thread should know who I'm talking about when I say things like, "Chilly," "Sir Kibble," "Poppy Bros Jr," and of course "Waddle Dee."


People also can't get enough of the villains. How many times have you heard people talk about Marx, Zero, or Magolor?

So here we have the most popular enemy being Waddle Dee. How do we make that better? By allowing players to summon their other favorite enemies while still maintaining his spear moveset.
Yes, the enemies in Helper to Hero are in a similar situation as Bandana Dee but why add them because of that? Like I said before, why add something if it's not associated with the character? We don't need to add fluff to prove to other people that he's unique, there's already many things make him unique.

You're saying as long as an enemy is a similar situation as another, then it's okay to add them into one's moveset? So why not add Magolor into Marx's moveset? It's the same thing.

You probably think I hate this idea but I think this idea would work really well for Ado/Adeleine. She could paint enemies to summon in battle. She's well known for this technique and think it would it be perfect for her.


Also, Congratulations Reserved for becoming a super moderator. :)
 

Cutie Gwen

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No offense, but why have Bandana Dee as playable character if any character can have a move that's not associated with it? Why not shove in a hugely popular character like Marx for the purpose of having random moves not even related to him? I personally think it's about as random as Magolor using the same gimmick.

The reason why DHD works with the NES zapper moves and all those other gimmicks because when you think of DHD you think of Duck Hunt (the game), ducks, the zapper (using it as an actual hunting gun), how this game is retro and DHD himself.

All those moves fall into these categories, the gunmen and TNT fall into the retro categories (The gunman also fall into the Zapper category because they're from a game that used the zapper as well), his smash attacks fall into the NES zapper (and the fact that people have been to attempt to shoot him in anger) category and etc.

All of this works because these things are in groupings that are associated with DHD.



Yes, the enemies in Helper to Hero are in a similar situation as Bandana Dee but why add them because of that? Like I said before, why add something if it's not associated with the character? We don't need to add fluff to prove to other people that he's unique, there's already many things make him unique.

You're saying as long as an enemy is a similar situation as another, then it's okay to add them into one's moveset? So why not add Magolor into Marx's moveset? It's the same thing.

You probably think I hate this idea but I think this idea would work really well for Ado/Adeleine. She could paint enemies to summon in battle. She's well known for this technique and think it would it be perfect for her.


Also, Congratulations Reserved for becoming a super moderator. :)
BDee replaced the helper system, that's why it was suggested.
ALSO SAKURAI Y U DO FALCONDORK
 

CatRaccoonBL

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Why not shove in a hugely popular character like Marx for the purpose of having random moves not even related to him? I personally think it's about as random as Magolor using the same gimmick.
...Because Bandana Dee is one of the most popular characters even more popular then marx or magolor? Because the helper system allows you to summom other popular Kirby characters like poppy bros jr?

The reason why DHD works with the NES zapper moves and all those other gimmicks because when you think of DHD you think of Duck Hunt (the game), ducks, the zapper (using it as an actual hunting gun), how this game is retro and DHD himself.

All those moves fall into these categories, the gunmen and TNT fall into the retro categories (The gunman also fall into the Zapper category because they're from a game that used the zapper as well), his smash attacks fall into the NES zapper (and the fact that people have been to attempt to shoot him in anger) category and etc.

All of this works because these things are in groupings that are associated with DHD.
When I think of Bandana Dee, I think of Waddle Dee. When I think of Waddle Dee, I think of all the beloved enemies of the Kirby franchise.

I also think how Bandana Dee has been shown to be pathetic. Which works with moveset potential allowing him to be balanced by summoning minions to make up for a lack of strength.

Yes, the enemies in Helper to Hero are in a similar situation as Bandana Dee but why add them because of that? Like I said before, why add something if it's not associated with the character? We don't need to add fluff to prove to other people that he's unique, there's already many things make him unique.
Because it works just like Ness for example. It makes sense for Bandana Dee to know how to summon enemies being a higher ranking Waddle Dee in King Dedede's army.

You're saying as long as an enemy is a similar situation as another, then it's okay to add them into one's moveset? So why not add Magolor into Marx's moveset? It's the same thing.
First off:
It's been speculated that Magolor knew of Marx so it could work.

Second off:

At the end of the day, the idea works, everything else about Bandana Dee would be his spear moveset.

Not to mention people could only come up with 3 specials anyway.

I heard Waddle Dee jump thrown around, but that could just be an up-tilt.

I understand everyone is fine with no gimmicks, so just never use the neutral special.
 
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kirby_queen

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See the problem I have with this is that if people think of the Helper system than they think of Kirby. Than the question appears "Why isn't THIS a part of KIRBY'S moveset, instead". Which than kind of irritates me more because I do long for a great moveset for Kirby that incorporates more of what he actually does in the games to a degree. Also incorporate his power moves better but that would be super crazy to design/program. Still I'd like to have him have a more representative moveset.
 
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CatRaccoonBL

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Than the question appears "Why isn't THIS a part of KIRBY'S moveset, instead".
Except it doesn't because Kirby has the Copy ability which is way more important. And before you say, "why can't he have both?" Two reasons:
That would take way too much development time.
Would be insanely overpowered.

And again we already have a representative moveset. The helper system is just something extra so that people besides Bandana Dee fans can also enjoy him.
 
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kirby_queen

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Except it doesn't because Kirby has the Copy ability which is way more important. And before you say, "why can't he have both?" Two reasons:
That would take way too much development time.
Would be insanely overpowered.

And again we already have a representative moveset. The helper system is just something extra so that people besides Bandana Dee fans can also enjoy him.
I'd find this a satisfying perspective if Kirby's powers were more useful.

I still think His spear is more than enough. I feel like this is more an effort to prove to others that BDee stands out. Yet the same people who complain of this simply don't keep up with the franchise and as far as I'm concerned, their opinions don't matter.
 
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Aunt Jemima

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I just want to bring something from Super Star into Bandana Dee's moveset. We all know how much everybody here loves Super Star content in Smash!

sobsobsobsobsobsbosbosbsobso

sbobsobsobs

sob
 

WeirdChillFever

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""No offense, but why have Bandana Dee as playable character if any character can have a move that's not associated with it? Why not shove in a hugely popular character like Marx for the purpose of having random moves not even related to him? I personally think it's about as random as Magolor using the same gimmick.""

Magolor was actually capable of summoning enemies in his boss battle.
 

pupNapoleon

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While that does sound like it would make for a fun character (one that I would very much enjoy playing), I don't think that having Bandana Dee be able to create helpers would be true to his character. Helpers only appeared in Kirby Super Star and Kirby Super Star Ultra, while Bandana Dee only appeared in Megaton Punch, and Revenge of the King in Ultra. Helpers don't appear in Megaton Punch, but they can appear in Revenge of the King; however helpers are on Kirby's side, and Bandana Dee is on King Dedede's side, so they aren't associated with each other.

From the Kirby Wiki's Helper page:
  • Although Kirby GCN was revised as Kirby's Return to Dream Land, the latter removed the Helper system, replacing Helpers with King Dedede, Meta Knight, Waddle Dee, and Kirbys of various colors.
So not only does Bandana Dee have little to do with helpers, his first major appearance (Kirby's Return to Dream Land) seemed to have actually overthrown the helper system as a whole.

As a side note, if the helper system was to be implemented with Bandana Dee, I think it would infringe on the uniqueness of Rosalina and the Ice Climbers. But I don't think they would even try because of the 3DS limitations, as a helper sounds about as complicated as Nana.

With no other spear wielding characters in the Smash roster, I don't think Bandana Dee would need too much help finding his own niche. :)
Leave the helping system to a different character- allow Pokemon Trainer to summon :)

On this topic though, I'm glad I read your post.
I was on Amazon searching for some random Kirby Paraphernalia, and happened into Return to Dreamland. I know it is mentioned here often, but until I saw the box art... I'd completely forgotten that game, that it came our around the same time as Epic Yarn, Kirby getting two full home console action platformers for the first time since Crystal Shards (my beloved).

It was priced at 129.99!!!
Granted, it was available at 54, but... what the hell?! Epic Yarn was on Prime at 15 dollars. Why is RtDL so much more!? Did they just not make any copies of this game? Is this why it isnt in any Gamestops?

On a different note, Rainbow Curse is a sequal to Canvas curse... yes? It even has the similar mechanics, not to mention the name and motif.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Leave the helping system to a different character- allow Pokemon Trainer to summon :)

On this topic though, I'm glad I read your post.
I was on Amazon searching for some random Kirby Paraphernalia, and happened into Return to Dreamland. I know it is mentioned here often, but until I saw the box art... I'd completely forgotten that game, that it came our around the same time as Epic Yarn, Kirby getting two full home console action platformers for the first time since Crystal Shards (my beloved).

It was priced at 129.99!!!
Granted, it was available at 54, but... what the hell?! Epic Yarn was on Prime at 15 dollars. Why is RtDL so much more!? Did they just not make any copies of this game? Is this why it isnt in any Gamestops?

On a different note, Rainbow Curse is a sequal to Canvas curse... yes? It even has the similar mechanics, not to mention the name and motif.
It's more of a spiritual successor, and KRTDL was announced for the Wii to Wii U thing, or was that European only?
 

pupNapoleon

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It's more of a spiritual successor, and KRTDL was announced for the Wii to Wii U thing, or was that European only?
WHAT! NOOOO!!!! It was certainly NOT US, which has Mario Galaxy 2, Punchout Wii, and the Metroid Prime Trilogy.

I'd also say it seems like more than just a spiritual successor- same characters, same mechanics, similar name.... it may not be a continuation of plot, but a sequel does not need to be a continuation of just the story, it just needs to expand directly
 
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Cutie Gwen

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WHAT! NOOOO!!!! It was certainly NOT US, which has Mario Galaxy 2, Punchout Wii, and the Metroid Prime Trilogy.
...We get DKCR instead of Punch Out but we'll get it later...After looking at both Directs, we know what we'll get later...KRTDL and Sin and Punishment included...
I feel so sorry, but hey, you guys usually get Kirby first!
 

pupNapoleon

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...We get DKCR instead of Punch Out but we'll get it later...After looking at both Directs, we know what we'll get later...KRTDL and Sin and Punishment included...
I feel so sorry, but hey, you guys usually get Kirby first!
I don't know what youre saying.
All I see is that Sin and Punishment, DKCRTF, and KRTDL are in Europe, and somehow you know this.
I'd much rather them than Punchout or Galaxy. Prime, I'm really excited about actually. Especially if its all three for ten dollars.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I don't know what youre saying.
All I see is that Sin and Punishment, DKCRTF, and KRTDL are in Europe, and somehow you know this.
I'd much rather them than Punchout or Galaxy. Prime, I'm really excited about actually. Especially if its all three for ten dollars.
We only have release dates for SMG2 DKCR and MPTrilogy, when Iwata said others were coming, those titles were shown. Maybe you'll just have to wait longer! No way would Nintendo not give you guys Koibeh! I predict the latest you'll get it June
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/01/wii_disc_software_heading_to_the_wii_u_eshop
Yeah, we get Pandora's Tower too
 
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