GrilledCheese
Smash Rookie
Funtastic.
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Social Bair is underpowered - Puff Social/Disc Thread
- Thread starter Krynxe
- Start date
Mahone
Smash Champion
what a cheesy pun
Bones0
Smash Legend
How dairy make such an awful pun.
Mahone
Smash Champion
ya, but most marths give u a couple free rests per set... or get really frustrated when they cant kill you one stock and sorta self-destruct
but if they chose not to and just played solid the whole set then ya i think its a slight, yet solid, marth favored mu
it's my best mu though, so if u have any specific questions i might be able to help
but if they chose not to and just played solid the whole set then ya i think its a slight, yet solid, marth favored mu
it's my best mu though, so if u have any specific questions i might be able to help
Mahone
Smash Champion
i dunno, any reasonable amount you want, but im probably never gonna be at the same tourney as u
Mahone
Smash Champion
ahhaha, what area are u in?
Mahone
Smash Champion
i kinda stopped entering tournies and stopped playing jiggs so im probably not gonna see you, but who knows, maybe one day
Keblerelf
Smash Ace
Not many marths that know the match-up around to scare puffs.
Personally, the fear of fox/falco/luigi/doc is greater than my fear of marths.
Landry
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 839
@Mahone -
I'm interested if you have any general tips on fighting Marth. I usually beat most of the scrubby Marth's I run into in my area but I still think it's kind of a tricky matchup especially if the Marth camps and waits for you to approach. Obviously edgeguarding Marth isn't too hard but if you have any general advice for fighting Marth in a neutral game scenario I'd be very appreciative.
I'm interested if you have any general tips on fighting Marth. I usually beat most of the scrubby Marth's I run into in my area but I still think it's kind of a tricky matchup especially if the Marth camps and waits for you to approach. Obviously edgeguarding Marth isn't too hard but if you have any general advice for fighting Marth in a neutral game scenario I'd be very appreciative.
Mahone
Smash Champion
well there are basically 2 ways to approach it, u can be patient and wait for your chance to get in and then take andvantage of the fact marth doesn't have good options when ur really close in his space or you can try to bait him and stay out of his range and just outspace him
i think the first way of playing it is much better, but, sadly, i play the mu the 2nd way
when i was starting out i couldn't hit all my lcancels and move really quickly so the first option didn't work for me and i found it much easier to just bait and outspace marth with bairs so i just developed that strategy even after i got my movement and speed down... im not sure if u care at all about why i play the way i do, but i thought id say it anyways
the reason the second option is bad is because marth has so many unique ranges on his moves... first of all, i spend the whole match right outside of tipper fsmash range, because thats the best range for baiting marth, but ofc u can see that it is a very risky way to play.... on top of that, even though most marths don't take advantage of all their moves, i think my gameplay can get shut down by stuff like ftilt and pivots at the right times
i can't really talk to much about the first option because it'd be mostly theory and i don't wanna do that when im sure other people here play that way and can give you concrete real world advice, but in case they don't, mango was probably the best at this strategy so u might wanna look back at old vids while keeping everything i said in mind
i think the first way of playing it is much better, but, sadly, i play the mu the 2nd way
when i was starting out i couldn't hit all my lcancels and move really quickly so the first option didn't work for me and i found it much easier to just bait and outspace marth with bairs so i just developed that strategy even after i got my movement and speed down... im not sure if u care at all about why i play the way i do, but i thought id say it anyways
the reason the second option is bad is because marth has so many unique ranges on his moves... first of all, i spend the whole match right outside of tipper fsmash range, because thats the best range for baiting marth, but ofc u can see that it is a very risky way to play.... on top of that, even though most marths don't take advantage of all their moves, i think my gameplay can get shut down by stuff like ftilt and pivots at the right times
i can't really talk to much about the first option because it'd be mostly theory and i don't wanna do that when im sure other people here play that way and can give you concrete real world advice, but in case they don't, mango was probably the best at this strategy so u might wanna look back at old vids while keeping everything i said in mind
Landry
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 839
Interesting stuff. I've had mixed success against Marth using both of the strategies you mentioned but being aggressive I usually tend to rush in and go for the close ranged option more often. However, against better players I kind of go more with your strategy where I sit right outside of tipper range and wait for Marth to throw out a laggy move. I have a lot of trouble with dealing with the quicker tilts, though (strangely ftilt gives me more problems than utilt).
What do you think the best way to attack Marth is once you get inside on him? I go for grabs and try to follow up on those but unfortunately Marth's fair is so quick I can get outspaced a lot of the time if I try to force hits that aren't really there. I have the some problem with bair chains and other aerial combos.
Also - what do you think the best way to recover against Marth is? I hate being on the edge against Marth so I usually go higher even though being above Marth isn't exactly a great strategy. That's one of the reasons I hate playing Marth on FD.
Anyway, thanks for the advice.
What do you think the best way to attack Marth is once you get inside on him? I go for grabs and try to follow up on those but unfortunately Marth's fair is so quick I can get outspaced a lot of the time if I try to force hits that aren't really there. I have the some problem with bair chains and other aerial combos.
Also - what do you think the best way to recover against Marth is? I hate being on the edge against Marth so I usually go higher even though being above Marth isn't exactly a great strategy. That's one of the reasons I hate playing Marth on FD.
Anyway, thanks for the advice.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Idk how weird this is for a Puff, but I prefer staying pretty grounded vs. Marth. Spacing vs. him when I'm constantly at FH height or higher just seems impossible, and when I'm grounded he has to be worried about me shielding his attacks and bairing OoS or crouching if he runs in for a grab. I may just be way too impatient with the aerial baits and stuff though. lol
Mahone
Smash Champion
one thing i wanna mention right away is that a GUARANTEED combo vs all marths is dthrow->empty hop outside fair range->land grab
its pretty funny when it works, which is often since all marths fair out of puff's dthrow and then land shield cuz they are so conditioned by all the puffs that try to get those greedy aerials in
see, the problem is i don't really know what the best stuff to do vs marth is when u get in because i don't really do it, i would usually grab as well and maybe just upthrow sometimes and try to outspace/bait his dair and get a big combo, although this is very hard to do, especially on non-fd stages, but you can kinda pressure him underneath him, although i find that his dair can beat u pretty easily since ur vertical aerial speed is really bad and telegraphed so u wanna try to approach more horizontally...
obvious stuff like uptilting when u think he's gonna drop shield and falling upair sheildpokes on him is good, but im sure you have thought of all of this
ya, going high seems to be the be the best vs marth, you just have to get good at juking him on the way down, its pretty low risk anyway as long as u stay out of range of tipper moves
its pretty funny when it works, which is often since all marths fair out of puff's dthrow and then land shield cuz they are so conditioned by all the puffs that try to get those greedy aerials in
see, the problem is i don't really know what the best stuff to do vs marth is when u get in because i don't really do it, i would usually grab as well and maybe just upthrow sometimes and try to outspace/bait his dair and get a big combo, although this is very hard to do, especially on non-fd stages, but you can kinda pressure him underneath him, although i find that his dair can beat u pretty easily since ur vertical aerial speed is really bad and telegraphed so u wanna try to approach more horizontally...
obvious stuff like uptilting when u think he's gonna drop shield and falling upair sheildpokes on him is good, but im sure you have thought of all of this
ya, going high seems to be the be the best vs marth, you just have to get good at juking him on the way down, its pretty low risk anyway as long as u stay out of range of tipper moves
Massive
Smash Champion
It's mostly because the only time marth can kill Puff is when the puff DIs incorrectly (or there's a successful mixup).
Also, I haven't actually played another (decent) marth since you left KC, dude.
Sad times.
When jigglypuff is RIGHT next to marth crouching he doesn't have much options. Usually it's either short hop immediate dair or full hop dair. OR jump and go for platforms/ wavedash away. Also if he is under the middle platform on triangle stages they may go for up B but it's pretty uncommon.
Pivoting fsmash helps when you get grabs to get kills. But yeah he does have some difficulty killing her I'll admit.
In any event.... MASSIVE I MISS YOU!!!!!! <3 If you guys host a tournament I'd love to come see you guys again. I keep planning to make a trip but then things happen.
Pivoting fsmash helps when you get grabs to get kills. But yeah he does have some difficulty killing her I'll admit.
In any event.... MASSIVE I MISS YOU!!!!!! <3 If you guys host a tournament I'd love to come see you guys again. I keep planning to make a trip but then things happen.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
I stay grounded and about tipper fsmash distance vs marth. A lot of wavedashing and duck/shield on reaction. Here's some tips and general advice:
general:
- duck on reaction lets you go under dashing grabs, ducking always gets you under standing/JC grabs too. Make him scared to grab you, by limiting your options you already have an advantage.
- you crouch cancel or shield dash attacks (which no marth should be doing if you're on the floor, but they throw it out to catch you retreating in the air sometimes so if you can bait it you can CC rest or rest OoS it)
- if you're ducking, he'll whiff every rising aerial except dair, but you should have already smacked him if he got close enough to do one of those. Ftilt has shorter range when you're ducking, and utilt can't hit you. You can whiff punish if you see any of this, and it forces him to approach with falling aerials or ground attacks more. Falling aeriels are great for you, CC or shield them and he's exactly where you want him, right in your face where he has bad options.
- his ground moves are mostly unsafe. Shield fsmash and do a fair OoS to punish. You should be out of ftilt range generally, so sometimes you can whiff punish with fair/bair but you'll usually wanna hang back unless you're confident in your approach. If you see him jab, get a bit closer and punish him as soon as he stops stringing jabs usually with bair.
- Dtilt is a good tool for marth when you're playing with this. If you see yourself getting hit by them a lot, jump in more with bairs so you can hit him every time he does it. Keep in mind that if the marth is smart, he'll intentionally be doing this to force you to approach, which is bad for you. If that's the case, just shield dtilt and then fair oos him to punish if he tries to do a second in a row or something else. This is still tricky, in general, so be careful and don't let marths get in your head with it.
- if you get in marths face, that's great. If you crouch, marth pretty much HAS to retreat, so you can either proactively hit his retreat because you know he's going to, (crouching fsmash is great for this but if he's grabbing you OoS for it, then do other things like grab or...) or be patient and continue ducking to see what he does, pick up on his habits, punish things like up+b or grab attempts, catch him jumping with uair. etc.
key things vs. good marth players:
- if the marth is playing smart and retreating a lot, that's fine. Keep your distance, but slowly approach to push him to the ledge. Once at the ledge, he can't really back up any more and you have great stage control. Just take advantage of that, don't let him roll/run/jump past you, cover your options and punish him.
- Don't be too scared of a dashdancing marth. He's limiting his own options to mess with your spacing, but don't fall victim to it. I could right paragraphs of how to deal with dashdancing marths, but only high level marths know how to truly take advantage of this tool effectively in this matchup. Just maintain your composure and keep up your tactics, don't fall for things like dashdance into wavedash tilt/jab/rising fair/etc
- marth has a very strong ledge game versus puff, so be careful. Either approach really high (and be extra careful if you're high enough percent to die to uair) or stay extra low and grab the ledge, plank a little and think about the best way to get on. Usually a normal getup and then immediately duck or roll towards the stage. Ducking right after rolls is a great tool vs marth in general, because it gimps his punish game where they're extremely cautious to grab you out of rolls/techs and marth doesn't have other good options usually except for like fsmash reads.
These are just tips, don't play like this to the word. Still implement your own style, and use your whole arsenal of useful moves like nairs/utilts/etc.
Hope this helps.
general:
- duck on reaction lets you go under dashing grabs, ducking always gets you under standing/JC grabs too. Make him scared to grab you, by limiting your options you already have an advantage.
- you crouch cancel or shield dash attacks (which no marth should be doing if you're on the floor, but they throw it out to catch you retreating in the air sometimes so if you can bait it you can CC rest or rest OoS it)
- if you're ducking, he'll whiff every rising aerial except dair, but you should have already smacked him if he got close enough to do one of those. Ftilt has shorter range when you're ducking, and utilt can't hit you. You can whiff punish if you see any of this, and it forces him to approach with falling aerials or ground attacks more. Falling aeriels are great for you, CC or shield them and he's exactly where you want him, right in your face where he has bad options.
- his ground moves are mostly unsafe. Shield fsmash and do a fair OoS to punish. You should be out of ftilt range generally, so sometimes you can whiff punish with fair/bair but you'll usually wanna hang back unless you're confident in your approach. If you see him jab, get a bit closer and punish him as soon as he stops stringing jabs usually with bair.
- Dtilt is a good tool for marth when you're playing with this. If you see yourself getting hit by them a lot, jump in more with bairs so you can hit him every time he does it. Keep in mind that if the marth is smart, he'll intentionally be doing this to force you to approach, which is bad for you. If that's the case, just shield dtilt and then fair oos him to punish if he tries to do a second in a row or something else. This is still tricky, in general, so be careful and don't let marths get in your head with it.
- if you get in marths face, that's great. If you crouch, marth pretty much HAS to retreat, so you can either proactively hit his retreat because you know he's going to, (crouching fsmash is great for this but if he's grabbing you OoS for it, then do other things like grab or...) or be patient and continue ducking to see what he does, pick up on his habits, punish things like up+b or grab attempts, catch him jumping with uair. etc.
key things vs. good marth players:
- if the marth is playing smart and retreating a lot, that's fine. Keep your distance, but slowly approach to push him to the ledge. Once at the ledge, he can't really back up any more and you have great stage control. Just take advantage of that, don't let him roll/run/jump past you, cover your options and punish him.
- Don't be too scared of a dashdancing marth. He's limiting his own options to mess with your spacing, but don't fall victim to it. I could right paragraphs of how to deal with dashdancing marths, but only high level marths know how to truly take advantage of this tool effectively in this matchup. Just maintain your composure and keep up your tactics, don't fall for things like dashdance into wavedash tilt/jab/rising fair/etc
- marth has a very strong ledge game versus puff, so be careful. Either approach really high (and be extra careful if you're high enough percent to die to uair) or stay extra low and grab the ledge, plank a little and think about the best way to get on. Usually a normal getup and then immediately duck or roll towards the stage. Ducking right after rolls is a great tool vs marth in general, because it gimps his punish game where they're extremely cautious to grab you out of rolls/techs and marth doesn't have other good options usually except for like fsmash reads.
These are just tips, don't play like this to the word. Still implement your own style, and use your whole arsenal of useful moves like nairs/utilts/etc.
Hope this helps.
(Assuming Marth will DI your down throw away) one thing you can do on stages with platforms is this: if you grab the Marth to the left or right of a platform and you are facing the platform, you can down throw, then double jump and follow their tech with a rest. Usually people will tech in place the first time because they don't realize puff can reach the platform height just in time.
Good advice, Krynxe. Thanks.
Bones0
Smash Legend
To add to this, also keep an eye on their DI to see if they will slide off. I slide off as often as possible because most characters can't do anything about it without super hard reading, but Puff can often get to the right area in time and throw a fair out at the opposite edge of the platform and connect (usually with them DIing horribly). If you realize they aren't spaced for a slideoff as they land on the plat, you can just react to the rest of their options (pun very much intended). The only thing they can probably do to get away from this is to land near the edge of the platform and techroll back towards you, but even that you can sometimes hit with a bair if the platform isn't too big. I actually do this fairly often with bthrow because I bair at the end of the platform to cover the slideoff which is even better if it hits, and I don't have to telegraph the slideoff coverage as much because bair is so disjointed.
Landry
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 839
So if you're not inside on Marth what's the main thing you try to do to hit him? Wait for a laggy move and follow with a bair? What's the best way to capitalize on that kind of situation?
And hey, what's your stage preferences for fighting Marth? What stage would you ban?
Thanks again for the advince, man. It's clear you know the matchup well.
This is fairly obvious advice. I think most Jiggs look to read rests off of platforms in pretty much every matchup.
Mahone
Smash Champion
well i haven't played puff in a long time, so im gonna have to go back and watch me vs marth to remember most of the stuff lol... but i'll do later today or sometime soon
btw have you read my mu guide? I just reread it and i think its all still relevant and how i feel about the mu, if u haven't here it is
Freaking Marth
Mahone Percentage: 60-40 Puff wins
Actual Percentage: 55-45 Marth wins
I don’t care what most puffs say… this matchup is not puff favor!!! I’ve been playing Marth players since I started playing (both my main training partners are marth mains)… so much that now it’s my best matchup, even though I ****ING hate it.
Luckily most marths play the matchup horribly wrong so it doesn’t really matter…
What you want to do in this matchup is play a lot more patient than you normally do… marth is one of the few, if not only, characters that can just outspace all of your moves. Normally it’s the other way around, where jiggs is the master of poking with single hits, but gets punished hard when the opponent gets in… but in this matchup, you will be the one getting zoned out and poked, but when you get in you can combo Marth hard.
Make no mistake, you can still get comboed if Marth gets one of those stupid inside fairs, but that shouldn’t happen too often if you keep your spacing… also remember to di all of his hits AWAY, don’t worry about dying, his moves don’t kill until really high percents unless he gets a tipper.
Just try running up and shielding when Marth is walling you out, and then fair out of shield… or try to get a well spaced bair in to disrupt his wall, but really you are just waiting for him to mess up or get predictable. I like to pound when I have a good read on my opponent because even though its risky, it will lead to insane combos, bair chains, and sometimes rest, also it has good range and its hitbox stays out long, so it can catch a lot of marths off guard. The best move you have for comboing marth is upair, if you can get an upair off when he messes up and you get in, it will lead to more upairs to rest or to bairs that will get him off stage.
Once you get marth with a bair close to the ledge, he will usually be dead because he will either have to di in and get baired again or di out and die to the final bair plus edgehoging. Edgeguarding marth is pretty simple… it’s similar to sheik, just bair him when he’s far away and edgehog when hes close to force an up-b onstage and rest it… but unlike sheik, marth can defend himself against your bair offstage pretty well, and can use his side-b to mess up your ledge invul timing… I like marthkiller(ask someone in this thread to explain it if you don't know what this is) a lot because it prevents his timing mindgames when he has to recover low.
One of the hardest parts of this matchup is coming down against marth. He can safely go for upairs when he is below you because your dair sucks and you have no move that can outspace it from above, so he gets free chances to hit you with upair… and once it hits he gets to do it all over again… what I do is use a lot of jumps to avoid it and most marths with do some sort of laggy move predicting you will come down, like uptilt or fsmash, and that’s when you can finally come down safely (and maybe even punish them). If they don’t fall for your tricks, just land on the top platform to regain your jumps and try to juke the marth out horizontally… hopefully they will eventually mess up, as it is actually pretty hard for the marth to keep his spacing while moving around and trying to watch for what you are doing.
On the ground you just have to watch out for grabs, make sure that you duck if you predict it and you can rest him, also some marths like to dash attack, but if they misspace it you can rest it out of shield. Besides that most marths won’t really be approaching you on the ground, they will just be fairing trying to get single hits. If you do get grabbed, make sure to di DOWN and AWAY so they can’t tipper you (that should be good enough vs most marths, the full grab/di mixup stuff is pretty complicated, i won't get into here).
The spacing I like being in this matchup is just outside of tipper spacing, it can be really risky at first because you could be wrong and you know… get tippered, but I’ve played the matchup so much I am used to it. When starting out though, you can just stay a little farther outside of tipper spacing… then be patient and wait for him to misspace; you also should quickly move forward when its safe and shield to throw off his spacing so you can hopefully punish. You will also be forced to retreat a lot since he will try to move into tipper spacing … just watch out for ftilt… that move is too good (but no marth’s use it for some reason). You can also choose to try to play more in the air, trying to stay outside the fair and fsmash arcs and then fall down on him with aerials (that you will have to weave out at cc percents).
Also, BE PATIENT. It can be annoying when you keep getting outspaced and you can't get in but don't be impatient, remember that those are just single hits and he can't even kill you until crazy high percents so the damage isn't that big a deal. Just wait for the marth to mess up, they eventually will. Also remember to bait stuff and move around to mess up his spacing, you should be able to get a good read on your opponent because while they are putting up their wall and you are at a safe distance, you can focus 100% of your mind on what their aerial patterns are, their reactions to certain movements you do, etc.
Levels To Counterpick:
Dreamland - he can't ever kill you, most marths will start spamming side-b hoping to combo into uptilt, but you can di it and it is easy to outspace/bait marth because hes so eager for the kill
Battlefield is the next best stages, but its pretty neutral, not a huge advantage like dreamland.
Levels To Ban:
Yoshi's Story - you can die at zero from random throw to tipper, and overall you die too early, but sometimes you can get quick kills via edgeguards and rests (downthrow will lead to a follow up no matter where you start it on this stage)
Pokemon Stadium - This is actually pretty good for marth because he has space to move around and can kill early, but I would still ban Yoshi's because if you mess up your di just once on that stage it can mean death.
GOOD MATCH TO WATCH: Mango vs. M2k (notice the fairs oos and the patience)
Postives In the Matchup
btw have you read my mu guide? I just reread it and i think its all still relevant and how i feel about the mu, if u haven't here it is
Freaking Marth
Mahone Percentage: 60-40 Puff wins
Actual Percentage: 55-45 Marth wins
I don’t care what most puffs say… this matchup is not puff favor!!! I’ve been playing Marth players since I started playing (both my main training partners are marth mains)… so much that now it’s my best matchup, even though I ****ING hate it.
Luckily most marths play the matchup horribly wrong so it doesn’t really matter…
What you want to do in this matchup is play a lot more patient than you normally do… marth is one of the few, if not only, characters that can just outspace all of your moves. Normally it’s the other way around, where jiggs is the master of poking with single hits, but gets punished hard when the opponent gets in… but in this matchup, you will be the one getting zoned out and poked, but when you get in you can combo Marth hard.
Make no mistake, you can still get comboed if Marth gets one of those stupid inside fairs, but that shouldn’t happen too often if you keep your spacing… also remember to di all of his hits AWAY, don’t worry about dying, his moves don’t kill until really high percents unless he gets a tipper.
Just try running up and shielding when Marth is walling you out, and then fair out of shield… or try to get a well spaced bair in to disrupt his wall, but really you are just waiting for him to mess up or get predictable. I like to pound when I have a good read on my opponent because even though its risky, it will lead to insane combos, bair chains, and sometimes rest, also it has good range and its hitbox stays out long, so it can catch a lot of marths off guard. The best move you have for comboing marth is upair, if you can get an upair off when he messes up and you get in, it will lead to more upairs to rest or to bairs that will get him off stage.
Once you get marth with a bair close to the ledge, he will usually be dead because he will either have to di in and get baired again or di out and die to the final bair plus edgehoging. Edgeguarding marth is pretty simple… it’s similar to sheik, just bair him when he’s far away and edgehog when hes close to force an up-b onstage and rest it… but unlike sheik, marth can defend himself against your bair offstage pretty well, and can use his side-b to mess up your ledge invul timing… I like marthkiller(ask someone in this thread to explain it if you don't know what this is) a lot because it prevents his timing mindgames when he has to recover low.
One of the hardest parts of this matchup is coming down against marth. He can safely go for upairs when he is below you because your dair sucks and you have no move that can outspace it from above, so he gets free chances to hit you with upair… and once it hits he gets to do it all over again… what I do is use a lot of jumps to avoid it and most marths with do some sort of laggy move predicting you will come down, like uptilt or fsmash, and that’s when you can finally come down safely (and maybe even punish them). If they don’t fall for your tricks, just land on the top platform to regain your jumps and try to juke the marth out horizontally… hopefully they will eventually mess up, as it is actually pretty hard for the marth to keep his spacing while moving around and trying to watch for what you are doing.
On the ground you just have to watch out for grabs, make sure that you duck if you predict it and you can rest him, also some marths like to dash attack, but if they misspace it you can rest it out of shield. Besides that most marths won’t really be approaching you on the ground, they will just be fairing trying to get single hits. If you do get grabbed, make sure to di DOWN and AWAY so they can’t tipper you (that should be good enough vs most marths, the full grab/di mixup stuff is pretty complicated, i won't get into here).
The spacing I like being in this matchup is just outside of tipper spacing, it can be really risky at first because you could be wrong and you know… get tippered, but I’ve played the matchup so much I am used to it. When starting out though, you can just stay a little farther outside of tipper spacing… then be patient and wait for him to misspace; you also should quickly move forward when its safe and shield to throw off his spacing so you can hopefully punish. You will also be forced to retreat a lot since he will try to move into tipper spacing … just watch out for ftilt… that move is too good (but no marth’s use it for some reason). You can also choose to try to play more in the air, trying to stay outside the fair and fsmash arcs and then fall down on him with aerials (that you will have to weave out at cc percents).
Also, BE PATIENT. It can be annoying when you keep getting outspaced and you can't get in but don't be impatient, remember that those are just single hits and he can't even kill you until crazy high percents so the damage isn't that big a deal. Just wait for the marth to mess up, they eventually will. Also remember to bait stuff and move around to mess up his spacing, you should be able to get a good read on your opponent because while they are putting up their wall and you are at a safe distance, you can focus 100% of your mind on what their aerial patterns are, their reactions to certain movements you do, etc.
Levels To Counterpick:
Dreamland - he can't ever kill you, most marths will start spamming side-b hoping to combo into uptilt, but you can di it and it is easy to outspace/bait marth because hes so eager for the kill
Battlefield is the next best stages, but its pretty neutral, not a huge advantage like dreamland.
Levels To Ban:
Yoshi's Story - you can die at zero from random throw to tipper, and overall you die too early, but sometimes you can get quick kills via edgeguards and rests (downthrow will lead to a follow up no matter where you start it on this stage)
Pokemon Stadium - This is actually pretty good for marth because he has space to move around and can kill early, but I would still ban Yoshi's because if you mess up your di just once on that stage it can mean death.
GOOD MATCH TO WATCH: Mango vs. M2k (notice the fairs oos and the patience)
Postives In the Matchup
- Jiggly Can Combo HARD once she hits (mango's advice)
- Marth cant really kill besides the dumb tipper (mango's advice)
- Up Air ***** MARTH (mango's advice)
- You can crouch standing/jc grab to rest (or running grab if you start crouching as he grabs)
- Rest oos misspaced Fsmash, downsmashes, dash attack
- You can actually crouch uptilt (and getup attack i think) to rest if you are close enough lol
- Edgeguarding is easy
- Random fthrow, dthrow mixup to tipper kills early (make sure to di down/down and away)
- Can keep you out forever
- When you are above marth you are kinda ****ed
- If he gets an inner fair, you are going to be taking a few more aerials before you can get out
Landry
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 839
Yeah, I definitely have read that stuff. When I was first learning Puff I was pretty much used your guide religiously to learn the basic of different match ups. I haven't read it over in a while but I think it might be time to revisit it. To be honest, I actually owe you a lot of thanks because I've learned a ton from all of the stuff you've written on this board.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Mahone should challenge Scar for the title of People's Champ.
Then he Ken (hehe) 4-0 Ken so we don't have to spend 30 minutes watching a legend spam side-B to compete in 2013 metagame.
Then he Ken (hehe) 4-0 Ken so we don't have to spend 30 minutes watching a legend spam side-B to compete in 2013 metagame.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
Shut the **** up. Rocky is the people's champ. We all know Scar just came here to steal that title, and won by drugging Rocky before the set.
Mahone
Smash Champion
ya np, ill look into that marth stuff tomorrow
i didn't watch that set, should i? also, id be down to challege scar but lets be honest, a puff will never be the People's Champ...
i gotta ease into that title nice and slow with my GDLK falco and then BAM, surprise, im a puff main
oh btw bones, today i broke sypher's fox's sheild with repeated grounded doubleshine pressure, what did u do with ur day??????
Bones0
Smash Legend
Mahone
Smash Champion
ugh, i forgot to do marth stuff.... i have failed u all, ill try to get to it soon
pokemongeof
Smash Lord
I don't play Jiggs, but my friend does.
And today while playing melee, he showed me a new recovery. HBOX Don't do this!
http://www.twitch.tv/pokemongeof/c/2209230
And today while playing melee, he showed me a new recovery. HBOX Don't do this!
http://www.twitch.tv/pokemongeof/c/2209230
Bones0
Smash Legend
Don't listen to dkuo, he's just jelly. That was amazing!
pokemongeof
Smash Lord
Yeah i know but my friend doesn't even play!
That's what makes it great!
That's what makes it great!
pokemongeof
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
you catch me every time
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Pretty impressive accuracy, actually.
AppleAppleAZ
Smash Journeyman
I wish I still played Puff. Puff boards are way cooler than the Marth boards.