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Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

Stev

Smash Ace
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Cal Poly / Davis, CA
So today I was messing around with Pika, and it gave me a question about ledge stalling. So from most of the pika videos that i've seen (which I can't say are TOO many given the lack of pika mains and what not), but most seem to ledge stall by quick attacking up and then down to regrab the edge. Why not simply quick attack into the ledge at point blank? The input is similar to that of a firefox stall only you rotate your d stick in a half circle while hitting b at the top. Also, if you quick attack at a slightly upwards angle, you'll end standing on the edge rather than regrabbing it. I'm wondering if this is in anyways practical compared to what seems to me like the conventional way. It seems that Pikachu is mostly protected with the invincible frames (though I can't confirm anything since I don't have AR or anything.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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I myself can eaisily do it do, but I don't think it's as safe as sheiks/foxs/zedlas so they don't take the risk plus if anyone else messes up they don't die. If pikachu c-stick back up-B forward stalls he can't really hit them and then it gives them time to think about how they could just CC and beat whatever pikachu throws out(if their at low percents pikachu is trapped) pikachu just isn't moving enough I geuss.

I stall as falco in fun ways so if I played pikachu I would think I might stall.
 

Radiowar

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
55
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camnda
zhu was doing quick attack stalls in some of the videos he posted, and he was doing it by hitting the ledge horizontally. a few pages back axe was talking about stalling by angling downwards, which would eliminate the lag before grabbing the edge but seems much riskier.
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
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Very nice post N64. Thank you :)

For stalling, honestly, I've tried in the past to do the same stalling that Zhu does, but I could never do it nearly as well as he does it now, and I probably still can't. I'm curious if you could be completely invincible during that or not. If so, then it could definitely have some uses.
 

N64

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I'm pretty sure you're vulnerable near the end. Up->down is most commonly done because you still sweetspot the edge (where QAing straight left/right into the ledge has slight lag before you catch), but also has vulnerability near the end iirc.

I have no ar data to back it up though, just application observation.
 

AXE 09

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Yeah, I want to say the same thing. I'm also pretty sure you've vulnerable near the end, but I didn't say it because I've never actually tested it. It's just a hunch. I still haven't been able to test the sweetspot just double jumping then going strait down (like in ssb64).
 

indigestible_wad

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I've actually been trying to do a ledge cancel thing where you let go and immediately diagonally down quick attack back to ledge grab. It's very difficult because you have to get it frame perfect since you're so close. I haven't mastered it yet. From what I can tell, it would cover complete invincibility frames, but I don't know the complete frame data.
 

AXE 09

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I've actually been trying to do a ledge cancel thing where you let go and immediately diagonally down quick attack back to ledge grab. It's very difficult because you have to get it frame perfect since you're so close. I haven't mastered it yet. From what I can tell, it would cover complete invincibility frames, but I don't know the complete frame data.
I've also tried doing this. I kinda got the idea watching V3ctorman/Taj edge stall exactly the same way with Mewtwo. And I know that doing this with M2, you stay invincible the entire time. I thought you'd be able to do the same with Pikachu, but it's hard to do because you're so close to the edge when you double jump. Mewtwo's second jump makes him go further horizontally so it works for him. This is why I decided to just double jump up then go strait down. Although, doing that way is very scary because if you mess up, you will die. And I tend to mess up a lot
 

Dynamism?

Smash Champion
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Why do it anyway?
Just grab the ledge, attack while invincible/edgeguard/whatever and grab again. :\

That's the best use of grabbing the ledge, so I'd suggest that.
Tech skill is lame. HMPF!
 

Radiowar

Smash Cadet
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i was just messing around with the turn around up-b a little, i can do it somewhat consistently. i was thinking though - and sorry if it's already been addressed - is it only possible to turn around when going straight up? if you could turn around when up-bing at an angle it could open up some cool edgehog possibilities, like being able to sweetspot the edge onstage from behind.

though i guess it might be an unnecessary amount of work when you can just do the usual double quick attack edgehog or whatever it's called.
 

AXE 09

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Why do it anyway?
Just grab the ledge, attack while invincible/edgeguard/whatever and grab again. :\

That's the best use of grabbing the ledge, so I'd suggest that.
Tech skill is lame. HMPF!
Yeah, I understand exactly what you mean lol. But being able to stall for a long time while being invincible might have its uses too. For instance...

If link is recovering from below, and he still has his second jump and you're not sure when he's gonna up-b, you can stall while keeping your invincibility the entire time. That way, when he decides to finally up-b (whether it's sooner or later), none of his blades will hit you and you can easily edge hog you. I'm sure we've all had to roll onto the stage because we weren't sure if our opponent would up-b early or not. This happens a lot when I'm fighting Marth. They always mindgame me.

But I'll agree that this is not something major to have down, but it could be useful in some situations like that.
i was just messing around with the turn around up-b a little, i can do it somewhat consistently. i was thinking though - and sorry if it's already been addressed - is it only possible to turn around when going straight up? if you could turn around when up-bing at an angle it could open up some cool edgehog possibilities, like being able to sweetspot the edge onstage from behind.

though i guess it might be an unnecessary amount of work when you can just do the usual double quick attack edgehog or whatever it's called.
I see what you mean. Like going strait to the left, but then end up facing right? I have no clue if this is possible or not. If so, it's probably gotta be pretty hard. You'd probably have to press up-b, then Strait left, then some sort of tilt right. That's just a guess lol. But I have no clue if this is possible or not. If it is, it'll probably have to be some sort of extremely persice timing. Something tells me that it's not possible though. But you never know untill you test it.
 

indigestible_wad

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Is it possible to just upb horizontally right back into the ledge, or does that leave you with vulnerable frames? That's pretty easy, and doesn't leave you with definite death if you mess up.
 

AXE 09

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Alright, so going off topic a little bit, just for something fun...

Why did all of you choose Pikachu? What made you choose him over any other character?
 

DJ Nintendo

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He's mad cute, he's a mini version of Fox, and he's mad beast in teams. Although more because he's mad cute lol =)
 

indigestible_wad

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I stopped playing pikachu for a while before becoming professional. I saw a guy play him at a tiny community college tourney (who wasn't professional) that could do really cool stuff with the tail that I had never seen before. That inspired me to pick up pikachu again, and I've kept him through my switch to competitive play.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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Be careful what you say about pichu sometimes people are banned because they think it's my alt account like INSANE ACARZY GURL was banned(really not me)
 

soju

SD God
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Hmmm why I main Pika?

Well when I first started melee I used pikachu since he was the most awesome little gangster on the character selection.


But when I realized I really sucked at melee I picked up Marth for the high tier victory XDD.
After two tournaments of failing at Marth I realized he just wasn't my character. I tried Pikachu again and felt a lot more fluid and comfortable with him so I decided to use his awesomeness again.

Now I'm a Pikachu main, with a Kirby/Zelda secondary for those tough fights with Ice Climbers and Ness(dont ask I just always had a hard time fighting him with Pika).

So really no one inspired me to use Pikachu, I just picked him up and decided to look at videos and saw these awesome Pika players, and then my quest to become the best Pikachu began. . . and it will resume as soon as I get enough money to enter a tournament >w<
 

tdk_Samurai

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yea, I'm pretty much in the same boat as sou, cept I didn't actually bring marth to tourneys, just realised I couldn't use him after like weeks of friendlies


oh, and the whole secondaries is different, and I don't think I have a problem of fighting ness with pika ;-)
 

soju

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Lol its not the fact that the match-up for me is bad, it's just like my skill level drops to zero whenever I'm fighting a ness for some reason. It's also the same for Pichu but not as bad since I've yet to fight someone who has a better Pichu then mine since my Pichu is almost as good as my Pikachu, or a good Pichu in general. XD

So I decided to pick up secondaries for fighting these match-ups at tournaments, while I get better at not getting grabbed and just fighting people lower tier then pikachu with friendlies. =p

*Oh and Kirby vs. IC is really funny since Nana is really stupid and will just walk right into your tummy XDD
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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Pichu isn't ness bad. Pichu only has 2 real flaws range and can't take hits. If you say he any other flaws your wrong they all fall into that group
 

soju

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I never said that they were bad. . . I just said I guess I just underestimate them whenever I'm playing them and also I've yet to fight anyone who's good enough with Pichu to keep up with any of my characters(exception DK and Ness, I just suck with those guys) whereas Ness, I've fought my fair share of good Ness players and I lost almost everytime with Pikachu, but kick butt using other characters, even Pichu.
 

FirewaterDM

Smash Apprentice
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Jan 8, 2008
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VA
eh, I first got smash when I was crazy about the pokemon TV show and stuff, so I used pika in 64 for that reason, mostly. and then when I got to Melee, pretty much the same reason, never used many other people besides Pikachu. However, when I got back into Melee last summer, I started to play again, Pika is still my main, but I guess that peach/jiggly/Mario would be my secondaries, lol
 

AnDaLe

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I picked up pikachu mainly because of Pikachad. I saw him **** some of my fellow smashers and was like OMFG. Then he told me a story of him beating(?) M2K's marth at Pound 4 pools on Yoshi's Island. And I was amazed. So yea, he's my reason.
 

soju

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pshh since were all saying why we became awesome pikachu mains

why dont you tell us your wonderful story axe :D
 

N64

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It would be cool to hear of more people's original pika idols/influences. Mine were:

AK
Vidjogamer
pictishfreak
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
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Lol awesome stories guys :)

My story...

Well, when I started playing ssb64, my best character was Ness. My second best was Pikachu. After Melee came out, I was sooooo hyped to play Ness again! But after trying him... I was like WOW he sucks now lol. Mostly because I loved him for his Dair, which turned out to be A LOT slower in Melee. So I decided to go for my second best character, Pikachu. I tried him out, and I felt that he was still pretty good, and I enjoyed playing him.

Eventually, I learned about advanced techniques. I watched the Advanced How To Play videos over and over and over again, and I practiced every technique that I could with Pikachu because he was my best character by far (because he was the only one I ever played), and pretty much the only character that I could use. I remember my first wave dash as Pikachu lol. I was so happy and excited after doing it hahaha. My first wave dash ever was on Corneria :)

Anyways, I kinda just kept playing pikachu, and didn't start practicing any other characters until way after I learned most of the advanced moves and could use them at a moderate level. So pretty much... Pikachu's always been my best character. I guess I just picked him because he was my second best in 64, and Ness sucked in Melee so I went to Pikachu lol.


As far as inspirations/influences/idols/etc..... Please don't take this the wrong way anyone... but I honestly didn't look up to any pikachu players in general. Mostly because I never really watched many Pikachu videos while I was getting advanced and stuff. I rarely came to the Pikachu specific boards. I learned most of what I know strait from experience with my own little crew in this little town in AZ. Most of my playstyle was figured out by myself, not from imitating another Pikachu player. Yes, I have copied a few things from watching Pikachu videos (such as the SWD and the QA to the edge), but I've honestly made almost all of my playstyle by myself. I just took what I learned from the Advanced How To Play videos and watching various matches of other characters, and inplimented as much as I could from them into my Pikachu game. Of course, Pikachu works differently than every other character, so I had to come up with many origional ideas, just like I know many of you have.

I think that's something special that I have for Pikachu unlike the rest of my characters. I feel like my Falco, Fox, Marth, Peach, etc... is kinda just copied from other people. I feel like I literally just watched other people and copied them. My Pikachu, on the other hand, isn't copied from anyone. And he's the only character that I have that's so origional.

I feel like... In order to become a great Melee player, you have to come up with your own origional ideas. Just look at Mango, Armada, and all the top players. None of them copied anyone else. They all have origional techniques and an origional playstyle, and that's a huge part of being able to get to that level. If you want to become one of the greatest Melee players of all time, you have to be origional.


At least... those are my thoughts =)
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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I really haven't copied anyone but for maybe puff a fair amount however I never really rest as puff and when people use the nair to rest I like to weak part of fair to something. Otherwise how I play as about everyone is to be pretty defenceive(even as falco(I wish I knew how to just rush people all the time)) I like to do random mix-ups even if they aren't the smartest like pichu's side-B. However I kindof feel like I know when I can pull off the ******** stuff that should never work like falcon punch. i'll have a mix-up game and movement game going on and when I can feel them not expecting a falcon punch of a side-B i'll do it i've been sheild pressured before and falcon punched them out of them before way better player than me.

'You sometimes just have to know what they expect and use something that isn't even an option. Like as pichu when i'm hit up into the sky I will predivt them and thunder below or up-B rarly airdodge or side-B far away. so they soon learn to niot right below be but in front of me a little bit to cut off all my options so I just land and start DDing.

My whole plan to basically read their minds if at all possible and basically mind**** them because I can't combo that's how I have to play.
 

tdk_Samurai

Smash Ace
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Jan 20, 2009
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774
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Springfield, IL
hey, whats this I hear about all the cool pikas going to POE 3? Maybe I'll go, I'm thinkin axe and n64 should go too.(if n64 wasn't already coming with dmac)

Chad, is it safe to assume your coming, after all you were 1 set away from winning cash money last time.

edit: this just in, ICG can lick his own ELBOW!
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
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Yes I can, I also have like a 3% chance of makeing it there, because at the time i'll be at holiday world and maybe I could get a bus ride or something but don't count on it.
 
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