Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[-RedX-]

Oh, I don't think that's actually possible/worth doing. I would just take the hit and DI up, then attempt to recover again a little lower to avoid a hit but enough to grab the ledge.
Mr. Doom is the SDI master, maybe he'll try it. lol

 

[Mr. Doom]

I'm pretty sure you can sdi to any solid wall and tech it.

 

[Heartstring]

how does sdi work anyway? im sorta fuzzy on that area, im reasonably good at normal di and momentum cancelling, but never found out what sdi was XP
lol, n00b comment

 

[Teh Brettster]

When any attack hits, there are a couple frames in which the person who hit and the person who was hit are both stuck doing nothing--- AKA hitlag. (Hitting statues, etc are what make hitboxes last longer.) During the frames of hitlag, the person who has been hit can tap on the control stick and instantaneously change the position of their character just a bit. Though it isn't humanly possible to do it once per frame of hitlag, it's possible for the game to register SDI once per frame. SDI is super useful against things like Snake's Nair to avoid the last hit. I also use it to avoid Kirby's grab combos and when ICs try to chain me at low % with Fair -> grab.

I thank Kirk's little video here for teaching me about SDI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU4b7C-zuYo

 

[Mr. Doom]

I can blame the level 9 CPUs for my horrible SDI.

 

[Palpi]

you cant blame anyone but yourself =]

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Quick, possibly noob question. How effective is a D-tilt with the hilt KO and how often should I try it? I managed to do it to a friend recently but, never tried again. If it's important in anyway, he was using Toon Link.

 

[-RedX-]

Onstage Dtilt is possibly Ike's worst ground option. I wouldn't try to hit with the non-spike hitbox purposely. I would be going for the classic Jab near edge->DTilt. If it hits and spikes, then yeeeee. If it hits with the non-spike hitbox, that would kinda suck then unless the other guy was at a KO%.

Don't use Dtilt when your opponent isn't offstage.

 

[Palpi]

I agree, ftilt is much better than dtilt...and you should be using ftilt sparingly. =]

 

[Teh Brettster]

Hilt of Dtilt has more knockback that Ftilt lolz.

 

[Heartstring]

i know right? it makes NO sense, but wahtever, although it would have been nicer to have that knockback but into our bair or sumthing useful.

oh btw thanks for the thing on sdi, turns out i already do it XD thanks anyway

 

[Mr. Doom]

A giant MK has touched down on the state of KS. I gotta go counter that stuff.

 

[YagamiLight]

I occasionally [I blame online] botch a jab cancel string and end up using Down Tilt on the opponent instead of another jab1. Thing is, though, that it usually works out for me. The opponent is in a fairly prime position to be hit by the Down Tilt and after the Down Tilt they are in a perfect position for Ike to follow up with.

I don't deliberately jab cancel into Down Tilt much but it's not a "bad" option. "Bad" being a very relative term considering half of Ike's moveset is great and the other half is very questionable.

 

[san.]

Even if you botch a dtilt on wifi, it's entirely possible that they'll probably botch an escape too. Dtilt probably won't hit unless something goes wrong with jab-->dtilt on the edge.

There are parts of Ike's moveset I feel haven't been explored enough, or I haven't seen been used in certain ways where I think it may be a nice choice. I need to practice/fiddle with some of them a little more to understand the timing and against which characters it'll probably be useful against.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I love it when San comes up with all these ideas and goes into his Ike workshop to develop them.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Like that reverse counter thingy that never really got finished and thus I can't brag about it?

 

[-RedX-]

I actually spent some time on that but nothing good came up. I thought about how Ike's second jump gets canceled when you use Counter. So I tried to airdodge->second jump Counter after being hit by a self-thrown bomb. Didn't work. -.-

 

[Nidtendofreak]

You couldn't get the reverse counter to work? ;_;

Dang it.

 

[YagamiLight]

I felt like I was on the verge of a breakthrough with the Reverse Counter stuff when I played a bit with it over spring break. I just need to play a bit more with the debug mode to see if I pull an Edgeworth and go "Eureka!"

In my defense I thought the Reverse Slide Draw thing was pretty cool, though.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I felt like I was on the verge of a breakthrough with the Reverse Counter stuff when I played a bit with it over spring break. I just need to play a bit more with the debug mode to see if I pull an Edgeworth and go "Eureka!"

In my defense I thought the Reverse Slide Draw thing was pretty cool, though.

Do it dude, go to debug mode! I believe in you!

 

[san.]

About counter, I need to test it offstage more. Anyone knows if counter makes Ike rise much just after getting hit with a semipowerful attack? I was just thinking a bit about counter and breversal counter offstage after reading some of the posts above. Right now I can only see using breversal counter after you win a match -_-.

Nair seems better and better the more I think about it though.

 

[YagamiLight]

Well when I did some base tests on a Reversal Counter a while ago I noticed that even from a relatively weak hit (an enemy Ike Ftilt that sent me to around mid-offstage) that I purposely SDIed / DIed badly I still got a noticeable rise out of it. Don't know if the rise helped me much, though.

What I figure it could be used for if we can harness it properly is to use it in a manner similar to Marth's Dancing Blade in the air where he just stalls for a moment to wear out the opponent's invincibility on the ledge.

Thoughts?

 

[san.]

We'll have to be very high in the air, in contrast to dancing blade which marths need in their mixup recovery game, so their uses are quite different. At most, I can only see this used as a minor stall in the air without much use, except to turn around in the air. I can only see us being able to use it once, maybe twice, too. The move lasts too long to use at most reasonable levels above the stage.

 

[Karcist]

This guy does a great job approaching the Diddy matchup and I feel that this video would be helpful towards the development of the Ike metagame. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b6vuWhfjQo&feature=related

Thoughts?

 

[Heartstring]

counter, its weird, oddly enough it can be used as a reasonable edgeguard on certain characters with more horizontal recoveries.
i used to drop off the ledge, fall so the ledge is about a double jumps length to reach, and then counter, it would hit most characters trying to recover, it only worked as a gimp move on characters with pretty bas recovery (tested it on falco when i first tried it out) and even if its dosent gimp them they always take 10% damage no matter how weak their hit it, and then the x1.2 multiplier if the move is stronger than that.
i dunno. i thought it would have been great to stage spike someone recovering, but getting hit by it turns ike around automatically. i'm not exactly a pioneer of anything XP

 

[C.R.Z]

so ive been away from ike for about 6-8 months, anything new?

 

[Palpi]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooope

 

[san.]

Me: Yes
Dunno about other people though.

 

[Slaps]

a bit late, due to virus on my computer.. But if you try jab->Dtilt and your opponent DIs towards you it is very likely that they will hit that gay spot of Dtilt that sends them outward. I have done it numerous times on wifi vs, Toon Link, Link, Oli, probably others, don't care to think atm XD.

Also something new... Palpi quit brawl o.o XD lol.

 

[san.]

Color me surprised..

 

[-RedX-]

This guy does a great job approaching the Diddy matchup and I feel that this video would be helpful towards the development of the Ike metagame. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b6vuWhfjQo&feature=related

Thoughts?

Looooooooooooooooooooooool

Something about Counter that may or may not help you guys.
If you buffer a counter immediately after a ledge jump, you'll drift slowly towards under the lip of the stage while countering. After counter, you have enough time to just jump and grab the ledge or jump->aerial that isn't Nair->Aether to recover.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I do that all of the time. Used it against a D3 that was charging a Fsmash, except I decided to land onstage with it. He died. :D

 

[Heartstring]

oh look, its CRZ, **** foxes, how can that matchup be so even? hes too **** fast!
so jump up>counter>not nair ariel>aether works? *goess off to training room*
*5 mins later*
ok, so i CAN get it to work, the only ariels i can do without plumetting to death is u-ar and b-air, sadly with everything i do in brawl its hella inconsistent, most of the time i jsut end up countering on the edge of the stage, for it to work you should do it during the animation jsut before he takes his hands off the ledge, any later you come onto the stage and you probably get punished.
it works for those who can do it consistently, i cant, so i wont be using it, although its actualyl a possible planking technique, whatever, make of it wat you will i spose

 

[YagamiLight]

Looooooooooooooooooooooool

Something about Counter that may or may not help you guys.
If you buffer a counter immediately after a ledge jump, you'll drift slowly towards under the lip of the stage while countering. After counter, you have enough time to just jump and grab the ledge or jump->aerial that isn't Nair->Aether to recover.

Reversing the Counter makes it look cooler and sets up for a possible Bair afterwards.

Win...in style.

 

[Heartstring]

Reversing the Counter makes it look cooler and sets up for a possible Bair afterwards.

Win...in style.

yeah some times i found reversing it helps a bit too, i *think* the timing is a little different

 

[san.]

I find not using counter also helps, but idk if it'll work for anyone else.

sidenote: lol at Kimchi lurking

 

[-RedX-]

I honestly only use Counter to interrupt certain types of recoveries. And when I happen to make the mistake of airdodging towards my opponent and I don't have time for an aerial, I just use Counter for the hell out of it. =/

 

[Dr. Grandpa]

lurkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

 

[YagamiLight]

Why does Linux have to make it so annoying for me to install a simple chat client?Ugh.

On another note I posted/updated some games that I put in the video critique thread. I had originally meant to post 3 Ike v Sonic games but for some reason an Ike v Pikachu game (which was played in a joke fashion) got in. Apparently I can't read titles. If anyone here feels like looking those over, please do.

 

[-RedX-]

Use meebo.com for AIM/MSN.
I pretty much quit MSN so AIM is the way to go imo. ;]

I watched game 1 against Sonic, your Ike seems more ground-based than most. Interesting o-o
I just noticed a few execution mistakes and such on your part. But I noticed that you used Dair as soon you got hit in the air too many times. I would suggest trying to jump out the way and fast falling away from Sonic. I think fast falled Nair would work too when trying to land safely.

I'll go ahead and watch the other matches.