Argument thread: Is Edgehogging/guarding cheap?

[Luigi player]

If you don't edgehog/edgeguard most characters can probably recover 100 % of the time if they don't die from the blastzones the got hit to.

Recovering would be useless and every stage could be like Bridge of Eldin... <_<

 

[Koskinator]

Nothing is cheap in competitive play as long as both people have the option to use said tactic (IE both people can be the same character and can use the same move).

Discussion over.

i like your style

 

[Titanium Dragon]

There isn't an argument, because there is no such thing as "cheap". Cheap is a "John", which means "you are claiming you didn't really lose because of your own lack of skill, but for other, external reasons". It simply doesn't exist, and is nothing more than an excuse for a player to not address their own lack of skill.

 

[Beta Knight]

I don't think you should have to just sit there and wait for your opponent to come back to the stage. You should be able to attack them whenever you want.

 

[Meccs]

It's hardly cheap, your friend just sucks. My friends always complained like "cmon let me back to the stage it's not fair!" I used to think edgehogging was cheap back in melee times, but now I realize it's just part of the game, and they're pretty funny kills
Oh, and on the use of the word "cheap", titanium dragon said it perfectly.

 

[:mad:]

Cheapness, is different than strategy, in Melee, when someone is trying to recover and using Link's side b to stop them is strategy, so is edge guarding. The line between strategy and cheapness is when a move is unavoidable, like a lot of Metaknight's moves. The cheapest move quite possibly is Game and Watch's gas attack, you auto will get like 10 hits. edge guarding is avoidable depending on the character, although I've seen some Link users who can use his hookshot to make it impossible to get back, but more so than not it is all avoidable, not so much that cheap.

Because nobody did so themselves, I'm taking the liberty of laughing at this post.

"Cheap" isn't the right word to use in any competitive fighting game. It also doesn't work in Brawl.

 

[DiasFlac]

can't agree that its cheap since its so easy to get around it.

 

[Tacel]

can't agree that its cheap since its so easy to get around it.

That depends on what character you're using. Snake or Pit can get around it easily. But Wolf...

In my opinion, edgehogging is extremely cheap. I'm all right if someone does it by accident, but I despise edgehogging on purpose.
Using edgehogging to your advantage is not proving that you have skill whatsoever.

 

[5ive]

ITT: Scrubs

Seriously, Edgeguarding is one of the concepts that makes Smash famous. Don't like it? Don't play Smash.

 

[zeldspazz]

That depends on what character you're using. Snake or Pit can get around it easily. But Wolf...

In my opinion, edgehogging is extremely cheap. I'm all right if someone does it by accident, but I despise edgehogging on purpose.
Using edgehogging to your edvantage is not proving that you have skill whatsoever.

Coming from the Lucario main =o

10learntorecovers

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Do we REALLY need this thread?

Anyway, if it helps speed up the KO process, I am all for it. SSBB is ridiculously floaty and recovery is way too easy.

Maybe a slightly better debate is if edge-hog stalling is cheap?

 

[veteran of smash bros]

???

Well I hate edgehogging but edge guarding is okay I guess.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Mario's moveset invalidates the point of arguing this completely. The Cape/FLUDD proves he was designed by Sakurai to become a character off of edgeguard/hog/gimp KOs. It's deemed perfectly acceptable by the game's creator (not to mention that a vast portion of most levels is off of the stage), if only because of Mario's moveset!

It's only cheap if you don't want to learn how to get around it, and instead want to complain in the hopes that somebody will care (nobody will).

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I thoguth the whole point of the game was to knock your opponent off the stage, but I guess I was wrong according to the people who think edge-hogging/guarding is cheap?

If it helps you reach your goal of defeating the other player, its not cheap at all, its how you play the game. Deal with it. Plus, there are ways to get around it anyway. While it is incredibly annoying, its not cheap at all. If you complain about it, you probably suck at the game or just can't win.

 

[smashkng]

I like it, it hurts for characters like Falco's up b or Olimar but it's not cheap. It's one of the things that makes Olimar's recovery amazingly poor which takes him out of being a top character. No need to be banned.

 

[Yung Mei]

i think its only OK for fun, but competitively, shouldnt be allowed, due to the fact that some characters rely on Tether Recoveries (off the top of my head, ZSS, OLimar, etc) and edgehogging, pretty much slams the door in their face

 

[gm jack]

i think its only OK for fun, but competitively, shouldnt be allowed, due to the fact that some characters rely on Tether Recoveries (off the top of my head, ZSS, OLimar, etc) and edgehogging, pretty much slams the door in their face

Tethers also make it easy to edgehog people people, so you need not risk getting hit by their hitbox if you are dangling below the stage.

ZSS has excellent recovery anyway with her boost jumps and filp stool. Her upB tether also spikes them, so can kill edge hoggers as well. Still, B tier and rising isn't bad at all.

Recovery is a big problem for Olimar, but he is floaty and has various methods of getting them off the ledge, making it decent anyway. He is still a strong character, and the Pikmin make him a fortress.

Falco has horrible recovery, which is very easily edge hogged, yet he is 4th.

 

[Yung Mei]

Tethers also make it easy to edgehog people people, so you need not risk getting hit by their hitbox if you are dangling below the stage.

ZSS has excellent recovery anyway with her boost jumps and filp stool. Her upB tether also spikes them, so can kill edge hoggers as well. Still, B tier and rising isn't bad at all.

Recovery is a big problem for Olimar, but he is floaty and has various methods of getting them off the ledge, making it decent anyway. He is still a strong character, and the Pikmin make him a fortress.

Falco has horrible recovery, which is very easily edge hogged, yet he is 4th.

falco also has <b> though, which only should be used if youre higher than a ledge. apart from that, yeah his Recovery sucks balls

 

[lax guy5]

I hate it too. The edge if for people who are trying to recover. Not for people preventing their opponent from recovering!

On the other hand, I think edgegaurding is perfectly OK and not cheap at all! Because you pretty much just doing exactly what you're supposed to do: attacking your opponent.

 

[:mad:]

I hate it too. The edge if for people who are trying to recover. Not for people preventing their opponent from recovering!

I really hope you're kidding. Otherwise, LOL NO.

 

[lax guy5]

I really hope you're kidding. Otherwise, LOL NO.

Nope, not kidding. Why??? O_o

 

[POKE40]

Nope, not kidding. Why??? O_o

The point if the ledge is to ridicule your opponent by ingeniously grabbing on to the ledge and watch their demise unfold before you.

Edge-Hogging isn't only fancy, it's a moral booster.

In the competetive scene you want your opponent dead. Thus you must do everything to take em down.

That means edge hogging,

 

[ndayday]

words

This man is correct.

Cheap is merely a word used by the person getting beat to illustrate their inability to respond to the other players tactics. One could argue that saying something is cheap is showing that you are a scrub, that is, you make your own guidelines in how to play the game so that you may always win and never truly learn how the game is played. Something like that.

 

[:mad:]

Logic dictates that if someone else occupies a particular space, you will not take up that space unless you move them.

There is nothing wrong with someone edgehogging you because it's your fault for getting hogged in the first place. It wouldn't be fair if you were the only one that could do that. This isn't the case.

 

[UberMario]

I have no resent towards edgehogging, honestly if you couldn't wait for their invincibility frames to run out before UpBing, you probably are in trouble anyway.

 

[ebhz.Ash.4rm]

I like edgehogging, I like it even more when I Extremespeed over one. Makes Marths cry.

 

[smashkng]

All 3 Star Fox characters have a sucking recovery. And poor recovery + lightweight is a horrible combination. Edge hogging doesn't hurt at all for characters with amazing recovery like Wario or Dedede. For those who think it hurts a lot use a character that doesn't need to grab the ledge to recover.

 

[ebhz.Ash.4rm]

All 3 Star Fox characters have a sucking recovery. And poor recovery + lightweight is a horrible combination. Edge hogging doesn't hurt at all for characters with amazing recovery like Wario or Dedede. For those who think it hurts a lot use a character that doesn't need to grab the ledge to recover.

And sense is made. People who suck at recovering need to stay away from characters who suck at recovering, it'll never end well.

 

[Azure Flame]

All 3 Star Fox characters have a sucking recovery. And poor recovery + lightweight is a horrible combination. Edge hogging doesn't hurt at all for characters with amazing recovery like Wario or Dedede. For those who think it hurts a lot use a character that doesn't need to grab the ledge to recover.

Fail. You've never seen a good Fox recover, infact, his recovery needs to be shortened and the massive sweetspot removed. Falco is the only one with bad recovery. Wolf needs his broken momentum transfer crap removed to.

 

[uhmuzing]

Fail. You've never seen a good Fox recover, infact, his recovery needs to be shortened and the massive sweetspot removed. Falco is the only one with bad recovery. Wolf needs his broken momentum transfer crap removed to.

Not quite. Falco does have the worst of the three, but all of them have lacking recovery options. Their UpBs especially are laggy and are easily gimped. Fox's recovery definitely does not need to be shortened; it needs to be less predictable. Wolf probably has the best of the three, but it certainly is not broken. The three's SideB's aren't any help when they are lower than the stage, and they're just easy to foresee anyways.

 

[zeldspazz]

Not quite. Falco does have the worst of the three, but all of them have lacking recovery options. Their UpBs especially are laggy and are easily gimped. Fox's recovery definitely does not need to be shortened; it needs to be less predictable. Wolf probably has the best of the three, but it certainly is not broken. The three's SideB's aren't any help when they are lower than the stage, and they're just easy to foresee anyways.

Hmm, I always thought fox had the best of the 3, Wolf's movement before he actually moves is annoying as hell, and his ledge sweetspot is so pitiful you have to be perfect to grab the ledge.

 

[uhmuzing]

Hmm, I always thought fox had the best of the 3, Wolf's movement before he actually moves is annoying as hell, and his ledge sweetspot is so pitiful you have to be perfect to grab the ledge.

Hmmm... maybe you're right. There are alot of Wolf players who can get it to sweetspot, though. I place it higher than Fox's Illusion because it elevates Wolf. If Fox is below the edge, he'll die using it.

 

[Vecayse]

Edgehogging isn't cheap at all. It's effective. I bet if your friend learnt how to do it and did it to you all the time he'd change his opinion.

 

[SuperChoco]

If you don't like edgeguarding, play on stages without edges.

 

[DarkWarCloud]

I don't know if this has been previously stated, but edgehogging has pretty much been nerfed bar ivysaur and olimar, and sometimes ZSS,

 

[Leeno]

i seem to edgehog by accident, haha. but i don't do it other than that. no fun.

 

[Chuz]

Edge hogging is cheap. I mean just because I made a few mistakes with bad DI, bad recovery choices, and bad predictions do I deserve to be punished for them? I mean think about it, if you held on you shield for too long and it broke and then Ike F-smashed you, isn't that cheap?

Let's not be idiots. People that usually say edge hogging is cheap are just mad because they probably can't do it and/or need a excuse for losing/mistakes/their character being complete garbage off the edge/etc.

 

[UncleSam]

Edge hogging is cheap. I mean just because I made a few mistakes with bad DI, bad recovery choices, and bad predictions do I deserve to be punished for them?

At higher levels of play... Hell yes you deserve to be punished!

I mean think about it, if you held on you shield for too long and it broke and then Ike F-smashed you, isn't that cheap?

If the Ike punished your sheild and you can't get out of it and it breaks, it's your fault for not doing anything about it and your stock is forfeit

Let's not be idiots. People that usually say edge hogging is cheap are just mad because they probably can't do it and/or need a excuse for losing/mistakes/their character being complete garbage off the edge/etc.

This part I can sort of agree with, but people who have horrible recovery are going to have to find a way around it or live with it.
no johns

 

[gm jack]

Somebody missed the sarcasm...

 

[UncleSam]

Somebody missed the sarcasm...

lol I guess I did...