Air Dodge Appears to have an FAF that occurs prior to the Auto-Cancel Window

[DeLux]

Air Dodge Appears to have an FAF that occurs prior to the Auto-Cancel Window of Air Dodge.

Because Dakpo asked me to explain - an FAF (First Actable/Actionable Frame) or IASA (Interrupt As Soon As) is a term used to indicate when a player may make an input in order to move directly into their next action. Without any inputs, the current action will continue on to completion.

For example if you look at the sample frame dodge data:

1 -3: Start up
4-29: Intangible
30-34: Cool Down
35: First Actionable Frame
35-X: Aerial Landing Lag Penatly will Occur if You Land Here

*I don't have solid frame data, but I suspect air dodge will probably have something like x = 40 frames in this scenario. That's a guess. Most of the frame data is a guess until people put up concrete frame data

If you buffer an aerial between frame 35 and Frame X (someone can frame test to find exactly what that frame is), you'll suffer your aerial landing lag penalty as opposed to the 22 frame air dodge landing lag penalty. The game will read you an in an aerial as opposed to in an air dodge because of the FAF/IASA option.

So if you're Diddy Kong and your Dair autocancels on startup as an example, you can aerial cancel your landing lag penalty, mitigating the risk of air dodging into the ground in some cases.

TLDR - DeLux Cancelling

You should interrupt your air dodge with the least laggy aerial landing lag on your character moveset

Video-

 

[B0NK]

Name Sucks / 10

Edit: Nice tech though -_^b

 

[Signia]

Only 5 frames of cooldown, really? -_-

 

[SamuraiPanda]

This has been known but the actual frame data has not been fleshed out yet. Are those airdodge numbers correct? And are they universal to the full cast?

 

[DeLux]

I just based it off the air dodge animation I saw for some character floating around. I don't know if it's universal.

I do know it's pretty godlike with diddy though lol

 

[B0NK]

I should also mention that it doesn't have to be an aerial, it can be ANY move. Including special moves, jumps and hilariously air dodge.

That's why air dodge mashing is so fast.

EDITED*

 

[DeLux]

I should also mention that it doesn't have to be an aerial, it can be ANY move. Including special moves.

Oh God, the air dodge into counter meta game is gonna be on lock LOL

 

[Gatoray]

Isn't "FAF" the same as the already named IASA frames?

 

[B0NK]

Same thing

 

[DeLux]

FAF and IASA have been used interchangeably for as long as I've been frame testing in smash lol

I like FAF since it's shorter and I couldn't remember what IASA stood for to save my life

 

[Starline]

I like FAF since it's shorter and I couldn't remember what IASA stood for to save my life

IASA = "interruptible as soon as"

What does FAF mean? I've never heard that term before.

 

[DeLux]

IASA = "interruptible as soon as"

What does FAF mean? I've never heard that term before.

First Action(able) Frame

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Nice find!

 

[Shaya]

Yeah it was pointed out early that the auto cancel frame from Air Dodging could be circumvented by using a move that didn't have as much landing lag.
And as I pointed out then, it's much like how some aerials in Brawl had auto cancel frames after the moves finished; Meta Knight's Up Air, Donkey Kong's Back Air were prime examples where "air dodging" would actually give them lagless landing but would otherwise experience it.

Not even remotely new, but now universal, or more so helpful to characters with low landing lag moves or those which have auto cancels prior to hitboxes being out.

 

[DeLux]

Yeah it was pointed out early that the auto cancel frame from Air Dodging could be circumvented by using a move that didn't have as much landing lag.
And as I pointed out then, it's much like how some aerials in Brawl had auto cancel frames after the moves finished; Meta Knight's Up Air, Donkey Kong's Back Air were prime examples where "air dodging" would actually give them lagless landing but would otherwise experience it.

Not even remotely new, but now universal, or more so helpful to characters with low landing lag moves or those which have auto cancels prior to hitboxes being out.

whoa whoa whoa pump the brakes

You could L-Cancel DK's Bair in Brawl? I knew about MK's Dair and I know I'm using "L-Cancel" in a bastardization of the term. But didn't know about DK LOL

 

[BSL]

Naming it after yourself? Lux, you asshole, lmao

 

[popsofctown]

Is this why Wii Fit trainer can chain airdodges like whoa?

 

[B0NK]

It's why everyone can chain airdodges, yes.

WiiFit can do something like Airdodge > Deep Breathing > 1-Frame Shield Cancel > OoS Option

It's pretty cool.

 

[Untouch]

WFT's airdodge lag is like, obscenely low.
Literally half everyone else's for some reason.

 

[Virgman]

Omg. This thread just changed my life.

 

[The Real Gamer]

WFT's airdodge lag is like, obscenely low.
Literally half everyone else's for some reason.

My guess would be compensation over the fact that some of her best footsies tools completely whiff on smaller characters.

 

[Zero Suit Senpai]

5 frame cooldown seems like a really short punish window :x

Do I just need to time better?

 

[DeLux]

Naming it after yourself? Lux, you *******, lmao

If anyone actually calls it DeLux Cancelling, I will forever give up on assuming satire is obvious lol

 

[Remzi]

Very, very cool. Charizard is an example of a character that can't SHAD without suffering those 22 frames of landing lag. But If I buffer a nair at the end of the air dodge, voila, lagless!

 

[BBC7]

This looks extremely useful for Mega Man, since his Nair has 0 frames of landing lag.

 

[infomon]

Is aerial landing lag the same throughout the whole aerial? i.e. is the lag different before the hitbox comes out vs. afterwards?

I think the chart laggy aerial landing lag on your character moveset is the lag at the end of the moves, but I wonder if it's always the same. For airdodge-cancelling you'd want the early-lag to be minimal.

 

[DeLux]

Certain moves have properties where they autocancel prior to a hitbox coming out, like the Diddy example with Dair in the video.

(I don't know what those moves are until we get a frame data compilation for all moves)

 

[DatMangoSentinel]

Very good find. I'll keep my eyes on this.

 

[san.]

I think a good number of moves from Brawl retained those properties upon transferring. Most of Ike's aerials still autocancel on the first few frames of input, so I imagine the same for many other veterans.

 

[Emblem Lord]

There is not a technique. It's just engine exploitation.
But good ****

 

[Remzi]

There is not a technique. It's just engine exploitation.
But good ****

In Brawl at least, Marth's dair has this property (cancel's before the hitbox comes out). Hopefully the same applies to him and Lucina in this game.

 

[ADAPT Chance]

Good stuff, need to start messing around with this.

 

[BSL]

If anyone actually calls it DeLux Cancelling, I will forever give up on assuming satire is obvious lol

This is what I hope and dream for. You know I'M going to call it that.

 

[Scala]

I'm kind of sad this exists actually. One of the really good changes from brawl to smash 4 is gone now

 

[Asdioh]

Isn't this just a buff to defensive options? :/

 

[infomon]

I'm kind of sad this exists actually. One of the really good changes from brawl to smash 4 is gone now

I really don't think this is bad. I don't remember the Brawl airdodge-landing frame #s, but with this:
- You need to airdodge at least 35 frames before landing on the ground for this technique to help
- If you do it right, you still have some vulnerable landing-lag from the aerial-landing, in addition to the airdodge cooldown window
- It's a technique. People won't always perform it, or perform it correctly. Might end up landing laggy and buffering an attack if they do it really wrong.

Seems like just a cool little trick that might help some characters act faster, but airdodging onto the ground is still a very punishable situation. That sounds pretty good to me.

 

[S2]

So is it possible for Megaman to cancel any airdodge lag completely with his neutral air then? I'm under the impression that his buster neutral has no landing lag at all.

 

[ryuu seika]

If you finish it before the landing, I think you might be right. If you don't, however, you will transition into the ground version of the move and get the normal end lag, just like with Falcon Punch or Kirby's Hammer Flip.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm kind of sad this exists actually. One of the really good changes from brawl to smash 4 is gone now

You have to do it before you land so you gotta airdoodge super early before you can do this into the ground. 35 frames is a lot anyone can react to.

This is useful but it's not going to be something the whole cast is going to exploit and be a must learn tech. Useful but it's not gonna make airdodges into Brawl levels of good. This requires you to make an additional action.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Lmao Lux you sound like you're just sayin "Not there, there, not there, there" but after a long night

Anyway awesome find. Even though the mechanic itself isn't new the fact that its pretty much universal is, which is great. Points for providing a good video too.