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About same strength as Marth U-throw.
If F-smash has a shield damage modifier, it's clearly not much at all. It does 16 damage tippered which is not exactly huge. Also Dragon Fang Shot is no less than a full second of commitment uncharged. The problems with that should speak for itself.IMO, Dragon Lunge is an underutilized tool for Kamui.
But yes, is s pretty potent character with great spacing game that is pretty rewarding, but somehow lacking in the big scheme.
EDIT: Wait, what? Kamui doesn't auto-lose to shields WFT.
The Shield damage from (tipper) Fsmash and Dragon Fang Shot are pretty good and kinda threatening.
I know right? If you consider yourself a decent player, there is not a single reason why you should ever let Kamui come back. The Up B has mediocre vertical distance and air speed is bad. If that jump is gone Kamui is either dead or chipped at the edge. Also, UpB is slow, so any hitbox at the edge kill it.
Those kill throws are very weak compared to other kill throws in the game. They need a lot of rage and a lot of % to kill.
Little known counterpick to Corrin: Dr Mario.
Uthrow kill percents vs ZSS on FD without DI:
135% 141% 158%This I completely agree with though. An 18f upB with awkward hitboxes on a character that just dies offstage without a double jump is a pretty substantial drawback. Even moves with horrid range like Wario's Dair can trade, most moves will just beat it outright as long as you aim for the head and don't go near the wings.
In an actual game, Marth's U-throw may actually kill earlier. Due to much higher bkb rage scaling. I believe it's fair to say they have about the same strength for all practical intents and purposes.Uthrow kill percents vs ZSS on FD without DI:
This I completely agree with though. An 18f upB with awkward hitboxes on a character that just dies offstage without a double jump is a pretty substantial drawback. Even moves with horrid range like Wario's Dair can trade with Corrin's head hitbox, most moves will just beat it outright as long as you aim for the head and don't go near the wings.
I'd maybe even go as far as saying Cloud's recovery is superior due to air speed without needing to commit to bairs and a much faster upB (and Limit), but Corrin has strong magnets while Cloud just hangs there for 14 frames before grabbing the ledge without Limit.
Corrin's dthrow has both higher BKB and KBK than Marth's Uthrow. So even taking rage into account Corrin should always be killing about 12%+ earlier.
And no.
When a vast majority of the top talents going to the tournament aren't playing Bayonetta, it's rather likely this will come true.
Not quite that simple. Worse angle, damage on last hit (3 vs 4, so if my math is right, 150 kbg on a 3 damage move is more like 112 kbg for a 4 damage move), and finally Marth actually lifts his opponent upwards before he throws.
Shaya
okay also tested Corrin U-throw, which as far as I can tell kills like 5% earlier than Marth U-throw under max rage.
Topical because it also pertains to Pit's decline: Earth seems to be adapting quickly to Corrin and is (mostly) maining her now. He should be at Karisuma this Sunday (JP time). I'm not sure if it's getting streamed but the matches should be uploaded to YouTube regardless.
Can convert into high damage combos from stray hits (ie: Nair, Fair), Side B, decent matchup spread against relevant characters, Side B, solid tournament results so far, good at KOing.
I feel like DL is an overused tool actually, haha. There are too many Corrin players who rely on it as a crutch.IMO, Dragon Lunge is an underutilized tool for Kamui.
But yes, is s pretty potent character with great spacing game that is pretty rewarding, but somehow lacking in the big scheme.
EDIT: Wait, what? Kamui doesn't auto-lose to shields WFT.
The Shield damage from (tipper) Fsmash and Dragon Fang Shot are pretty good and kinda threatening.
Yet somehow interactions happen. And you have it the wrong way around.
I think you forgot to mention side-b.
Sounds like a good design to me.
Corrin isn't breaking my shield, and furthermore dies offstage much more easily than over half the cast. If you're going to argue dynamic interactions somehow lean towards someone's favor, how does this actually lead to Corrin's favor? All I need is to confirm punishable spacing after perfect shielding and put Corrin offstage and know my edgeguard options. This is trivial to accomplish from dynamic interaction.
Ike is secretly the best of them in doubles given absolutely nobody else in the game is a better stock tank.
I actually think Corrin's design balance is roughly what should be aimed for when adjusting characters. The character's weaknesses are apparent and can be exploited but ultimately don't prevent the character from executing their strategy.
I would say a majority of the other sword fighters have unique traits over Cloud and Corrin that give them their own niche. Ike and Link have a much stronger grab game and edge guarding abilities, Marth and Lucina have overall better frame data and range, etc.
Look at the meta. Almost all the good characters except Cloud have a good negative state. Cloud is an exception because his tools are insane enough to circumvent issues chasing TOP TIER NEGATIVE STATES.
King of Turtling? I think you mispelled Gunner.
Her results is what impresses me compared to the Pits. Along with multiple high level players taking an interest in picking her up, or having already picked her up.
I'm not exactly impressed with TL either, but that character has an actual camping game that has safe responses to perfect shields, and while the grab is risky, it kinda exists unlike Corrin's.
The balance of sword fighters has been questionable ever since Melee. The balance of sword characters (and weapon-wielders to include D3 and IC's) has ranged from unfortunate (
) to questionable () to mind-numbingly disastrous (). and have a very questionable contrast in their designs: Marth not only has the advantage of a tipper and slightly longer reach, but faster dashing and walking speeds, a 1-frame faster jumpsquat, a longer wavedash, and moves that generally deal more knockback with better frame data to top it off. And Marth has the benefit of longer survivability due to his superior recovery.: I don't think we need that much explanation here. But there's one thing in MK's design that I don't see getting mentioned much: his hitboxes aren't crazy due to their sizes, but for another reason: in all his interations, Marth's range is counterbalanced by the ending lag on his moves, their low active frames, and the fact that they travel in arcs. Meanwhile, Brawl MK (and to a much lesser extent, Smash 4 MK) has the advantage of disjoints and static hitboxes. Brawl MK's forward aerial was so overtuned because the sword trails were active for 6 frames and covered the whole area in front of him on each of those frames.'s hitboxes are much more tame isn't solely the reduced range; they severely reduced his active frames. Want to know how severely? Fair, uair, dair, f tilt, fsmash, usmash, and dsmash all had their active frames shortened by 50%. In more detail, all of those moves have only 1 active frame (multi-hits have 1 frame on each hit). And just FYI, Smash 4 MK's fair has longer range than in Brawl.--: similar to Brawl MK, his range is strangely coupled with high hitbox durations (uair and dair, anyone?). also has this advantage to a degree, but Cloud also has the benefit of great mobility, a charging mechanic that allows him to actually camp and force approaches along with a projectile, and good frame data. I know Sakurai likely intended for Cloud to be really, really good, but from a game balance stand-point, throwing absurd range, long active frames, Limit Break, and high damage output onto a 1.97 dashing speed, 1.1 air speed, and a 4-frame jumpsquat is all obviously going to raise a lot of eyebrows.: Roy is just a mess of half-baked playstyles. We've already discussed this a while back. He was already overshadowed by from the start (Roy DLC update was a month after the last patch to majorly change MK pre-1.1.5) because MK was and is a sword character who filled Roy's niche of trading range for mobility, and MK works as much better mix between heavy pressure and combos than Roy, who was clearly intended to play that role (just note: I remember reading a post a long while back that said Roy hard-countered MK).Then got major buffs and accelerated ahead of Roy. Roy went from being overshadowed to completely invalidated with Cloud's release, and only more so with the buffs to and the inclusion of .: Ike stood out really well for his range, but is now somewhat overshadowed by Cloud. However, Ike still has a niche in his grab game, which is generally the most consistent out of all the swordies. Furthermore, he's heavier than Cloud with a much better recovery, giving him another selling point in his survivability. are the ones who have niches while not being invalidated by others.... again.
