Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Shaya]

I'll say this now.
ZSS is probably slightly better now.

But I will also say, that from this stage forward, I will outright deny such a possibility indefinitely. And so will any other self-respecting ZSS main.
Don't ask why.
Don't instantly believe me either.

Down tilt didn't get buffed, unfortunately. But hey, 2% more on back throw baby~ (and maybe other things).

 

[19_]

LOL so much for no more changes.

BRO.

TELEPORT DOESN'T RANDOMLY BOUNCE OFF THE LEDGE FOR ME ANYMORE.

this is a lie I just tested this its still garbage.

Also we have a thread for this.

 

[Luco]

I think it's important to focus on both negatives and positives regarding characters in this game, the only characters I would consider garbage are Puff and Zelda. Every other character has at least something going for them I feel like.

Oh, ohhhhhhhh buddy. Now you can say Puff is a piece of trash, but that's before you miss your PS on her Fair and then Pound and get shield broken ----> rest killed at 40%. Or you as Ness PK Fire her but she jumps into you and rest kills you at 45% (or better yet, she uses Rest WHILE INSIDE PK FIRE AS YOU GO FOR THE FOLLOWUP NAIR BECAUSE YOU KNOW NOT TO TRY AND GRAB FLOATIES IN PK FIRE). Or you as Ness Dthrow and go for the followup Fair only to get guaranteed F1 rested by Jiggs because you mis-spaced and die at 45%. Or you as anyone whiff a grab on her and get rest killed at about 50%. Or you as anyone shield against her running into you for just a bit too long expecting something and then get pounded ---> shield break ---> rest killed at (LEMME HEAR YOU SCREAM THOSE PERCENTS)! Or you as 2/3rds of the cast get Bthrown by her and edge-guarded to the depths of hell only to watch that ****ing balloon float away back on-stage with your dirty, tainted stock.

That pokemon makes me mad sometimes. The only reason she isn't top tier is because Pound doesn't break shields by itself every time. You can miss the PS on a Pound, then punish Jiggs and just not shield for 15 seconds. If it weren't for that we'd be looking at a monster that could kill you at 50% for using the most defensive option in the game if you miss the PS window (which is easy to miss against that move), and that would actually make her threat in neutral TERRIFYING.

EDIT THAT ISN'T REALLY AN EDIT BUT ME JUST GOING THROUGH THE THREAD: Oh hey new patch. So I guess we get to be spoilt for a little while longer. :D

 

[arbustopachon]

zard's buff are beautyfull.

His fair's landing lag is literally 10 frames faster now.
also bair is amazing now.

 

[L9999]

Luco Is it my imagination or PKF is much easier to SDI? I was never good at SDIing and I got out of it with really minimal mashing. Gravitational Gimps are still ultra cheap, no duration nerf, no range nerf, nothing. Thanks a lot balance team....

 

[PK Gaming]

...

There's going to be a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of things to talk about

Never a dull moment for the competitive impressions thread (lol)

 

[Fatmanonice]

People are saying that Cloud's Finishing Touch got a significant knockback reduction, especially when done in the air, meaning that doubles may actually go back to being watchable again.

 

[Luco]

Luco Is it my imagination or PKF is much easier to SDI? I was never good at SDIing and I got out of it with really minimal mashing. Gravitational Gimps are still ultra cheap, no duration nerf, no range nerf, nothing. Thanks a lot balance team....

I can check but consider that PKF traps people based on a few factors, most notable of which is whether they're close to you or far away when they get hit by it. The further you are away the more easily you're able to escape it with SDI. The other big factor is whether you're a light or heavy-weight which I'm sure you'd already know. I'm not sure where you were hit by it and who you were when you were hit by it, but I will say it's easy to get placebo'd by that move so we might have to test it a bit.

But yeah balance team doing some interesting stuff ;_;

Also WTF Mewtwo being faster than MK now.

https://twitter.com/TheKillerJawz/status/709958056390619136

 

[Tri Knight]

zard's buff are beautyfull.

His fair's landing lag is literally 10 frames faster now.
also bair is amazing now.

Maybe we can see Zard shine a little bit more now. Those are some pretty significant buffs.

 

[Mr. Johan]

5th fastest on the ground now with an Usmash that kills at 85% with longer moves including a frame 6 Fair?

Well guys, pre-patch Sonic is back. Only this time he's Mewtwo.



jesus ****ing christ

 

[Y2Kay]

Oh my lord!

greninja's standing grabbed is not utter trash anymore ! ! !

 

[Mr. Johan]

I blissfully await everyone starting to complain about this new Mewtwo now, like they did with Sonic back in the good old days when he was fast and super strong with a killing throw.


I doubt they will.

 

[Y2Kay]

5th fastest on the ground now with an Usmash that kills at 85% with longer moves including a frame 6 Fair?

Well guys, pre-patch Sonic is back. Only this time he's Mewtwo.



jesus ****ing christ

I honestly don't see a problem with this.

something something adapt

 

[L9999]

5th fastest on the ground now with an Usmash that kills at 85% with longer moves including a frame 6 Fair?

Well guys, pre-patch Sonic is back. Only this time he's Mewtwo.



jesus ****ing christ

This is why I said that the balance team doesn't know what it is doing.

 

[Megamang]

Depending on how the new needles and d-throw interact specifically with Greninja, he might make a huuuuge climb in the metagame.

Rosalina also looking good. I might give her a try, being a footsy character is cool, and its nice that her premier main is a lab rat who is constantly improving every time I see him.

Also, zero is incredibly salty on twitter and generally making a fool of himself. Shiek is fiiiiine. If you were a shiek fan, you'll still be in a great place, if you just want to play the best character, give it a few months and just switch to whoever that is.. it might still be shiek!

 

[FullMoon]

Wait Mewtwo runs faster than Greninja now?

 

[C0rvus]

Well, I was just saying that Mewtwo was high tier earlier today.
Now he's definitely high tier. What a scary character.

 

[Ghostbone]

This new Mewtwo is literally pre-patch Sonic

Runs around fast with kill throws and a stupid powerful up-smash

People will start complaining soon lol.

 

[wedl!!]

I'm still confused as to why Mewtwo was buffed again. Low FG winrate, I guess? That doesn't warrant what he got tonight, lol.

I like the idea of high tier Mewtwo. Having a character as all powerful as Mewtwo in canon be underwhelming in both his appearances just doesn't fit him. Plus I like playing him.

Who knows, maybe at Shine (which I'm planning to go to, it isn't my choice) I might pull out my secret Mewtwo~ (or a grappler, lol)

 

[Y2Kay]

If greninja charges his shuriken a bit, it outranges needles. sheik doesn't outcamp him anymore

 

[thehard]

Cloud and Corrin nerfs and Greninja and Mewtwo buffs? The advertising campaign for the FFVII remake and Fates must have ended, Nintendo focusing all their resources on Pokken now

(Also ZeRo was joking with his tweets, check his timeline)

 

[UberMadman]

IT'S WRONG STOP LIKING THIS THANK YOU

 

[Fatmanonice]

War... war has changed.

Looks like this dog finally got his day and about damn time too. Hopefully it's not super DI-able.

 

[Y2Kay]

Mewtwo is still lighter than Game and Watch guys

if you can't work with that than I can't help you lol

I've waited for over a decade now for mewtwo to be a really good character, Sakurai has rewarded me for my patience

pls don't ruin this for me

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Boy oh boy there is NOTHING like the chaos of patch day to get me excited. Specially when my character has pretty much nowhere to go but up.

Real talk though Esam's tweets make me want to consider picking up Samus again. She's apparently got some kind of improved momentum during Morph Bomb and it looks super cool along all the other stuff she got.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Mewtwo is great. He is faster, and dies 2-3% later.

 

[Solfiner]

Mewtwo is not gonna be as annoying as Sonic since he's still a lot easier to hit and also still very light. Definitely a threat now though.

Also, seems like Sheik is gonna start getting some bad match ups finally.

 

[Y2Kay]

apparently they nerfed mewtwo's up throw ever so slightly

 

[C0rvus]

Mewtwo is still lighter than Game and Watch guys

if you can't work with that than I can't help you lol

I've waited for over a decade now for mewtwo to be a really good character, Sakurai has rewarded me for my patience

pls don't ruin this for me

For real? Don't take it personally. Mewtwo didn't need those buffs. Course some folks aren't going to like that.

If that Duck Hunt thing is real it might make me play that character. Real talk. Like really real talk.

 

[Djent]

Well that does it. Was already considering a mew new main. I think he (or Greninja) is probably the best Pokemon now.

 

[TurboLink]

I wonder how the Ryu matchup is looking for Sheik. Sheik really can't afford to **** up and the Needle Storm nerf makes approaching with Ryu easier I suppose. She also can't fall back on down throw to up air meaning Ryu has an easier time getting max rage leading to even earlier True Shoryuken kills.

 

[ARISTOS]

's low weight and huge hurtbox still makes mistakes very dangerous to commit.

Tons of cannon now though, lol, this character is def now a very dangerous threat

EDIT: With getting Needles nerfed might be freed

 

[Y2Kay]

For real? Don't take it personally. Mewtwo didn't need those buffs. Course some folks aren't going to like that.

If that Duck Hunt thing is real it might make me play that character. Real talk. Like really real talk.

naw fam i was joking

 

[Luco]

Is the needle nerf massive though? Sheik still forces an approach, just because she moves in a little closer doesn't really stop that. Unless the distance change means needles are realistically punishable by a bunch of characters, I still see Sheik holding onto needles for a rainy day mid-range landing trap or something.

Genuinely curious though, because it could be huge and I just don't know.

 

[C0rvus]

naw fam i was joking

:/ Sarcasm doesn't translate well into text. My b.

Can we talk more about that Duck Hunt thing tho? Like, if he has a kill confirm out of a throw, that's his biggest weakness gone with the wind. That gif looks super suspect to me.

 

[Nobie]

apparently they nerfed mewtwo's up throw ever so slightly

How slight are we talking? I tested Mewtwo's up throw on Mario and it killed at the same percent as before.

Also if Duck Hunt has a grab kill confirm now, that's a huge deal because he has the pivot grab of the gods.

 

[FullMoon]

Greninja still loses neutral hard against Sheik, he needs to charge shuriken in order for needles to not hit him while he can still get the hit in. Needles still come out faster as well.

MU is still pretty bad I'd say, unless the rumor about Sheik's 50/50 being nerfed is true.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Considering Mewtwo is supposed to be "the Ultimate Pokemon" it would make sense for him to be at least competent. As others have said, Mewtwo is still light and is still a huge target so I don't see him becoming a complete terror. The indirect buffs that a lot of characters have gotten just on everything discovered so far are going to be huge so I could definitely see the high tiers getting shaken up some in the following month.

 

[Megamang]

Id rather lose to a character in M2's body than the same character in Sonics' body. M2 also is bigger, doesn't say 'YOURE TOO SLOW' in the most punchable voice ever, have music that his fans like way too much, is lighter, doesn't have spindash BS for confirms that do way too much (he has confirms, but off of non mobile priority balls), and isn't a blue ball of ****.


I may dislike sonic for personal reasons. But yea, mew2 isn't gonna be the next sonic, but he is really good right now, and I like it. I might pick the guy up, depending on if shiek still has a kill throw on him, and how my main search goes in the next few days.

 

[TriTails]

I went back from my Undertale youtube adventure.

Suddenly patch notes.

Currently updating atm. Going at snail speed. I pretty much expect unchanged Luigi, but I'm curious on Sheik's nerfs. Who knows? Maaaaybe Luigi doesn't get ROTFL'd by needles now.

Flip dangit. Go faster you download speed.