Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Y2Kay]

If sakurai nerfed the top tiers that greninja actually did well against but didn't touch sheik I will flip a table

 

[ARGHETH]

Unless there were (significant) nerfs to and , the list of characters able to challenge them just got even shorter.

What, the 1% nerf to his Uair wasn't good enough for you?

 

[Ninety]

So MK lost his ability to kill people at 40? World's smallest violin playing here.

 

[CHIEf]

Falco feels the same.

If he had less endlag on his jab 1 to combo into the buffed usmash that's all I could ask for.

 

[Ghostbone]

Unless there were (significant) nerfs to and , the list of characters able to challenge them just got even shorter.

Cloud uair does 12% rather than 13%, and limit charge takes 7 seconds rather than 6 (dunno if there's any changes to how much being hit/hitting your opponent charges it)

Sheik d-throw has more knockback growth (i'm like 99% sure anecdotally, will wait on dataminers before i confirm it though), basically she got the luigi treatment.

 

[dean.]

Cloud uair does 12% rather than 13%, and limit charge takes 7 seconds rather than 6 (dunno if there's any changes to how much being hit/hitting your opponent charges it).

Still takes 250% damage dealt and 100% damage taken to charge.

 

[Fatmanonice]

am i the only one that's fine with limit cross slash? it's locked behind a meter that he can be forced to use on recovery, so it doesnt really bother me much...

It's still like a mini-Final Smash though. It's incredibly safe and can kill as low as 60-70%. Your typical Cloud is still probably going to get 3-4 limit breaks in a stock too so the chances of it playing a factor in the outcome of a match are still pretty high.

 

[Megamang]

OMG, if they finally fixed it so shiek doesn't have a kill confirm, and actually 'has trouble killing', ill be super happy. Unless the bayo/cloud team gets stronger in the next few months, I predict more meta growth for characters not named Shiek.

also, if shiek can't get all her kills from d-throw anymore, I'll give it 5 minutes before a complaint comes out from Zero's twitter. <3

She might actually have a meaningful weakness now, which is really great for the meta. Anti developing a shiek and Nairo worrying about switching characters had me really worried, but all is well. Seriously guys, not to toot my own horn here but i've been saying it for a while, a meta where shiek can't just d-throw you till you die will be very nice.

 

[Pyr]

Cloud uair does 12% rather than 13%, and limit charge takes 7 seconds rather than 6 (dunno if there's any changes to how much being hit/hitting your opponent charges it)

Sheik d-throw has more knockback growth (i'm like 99% sure anecdotally, will wait on dataminers before i confirm it though), basically she got the luigi treatment.

If the numbers are big enough, that'll be huge. Losing the 50/50 would actually hurt her since her flaws would start to actually matter!

Maybe she'll know Luigi's pain! =D

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Cloud uair does 12% rather than 13%, and limit charge takes 7 seconds rather than 6 (dunno if there's any changes to how much being hit/hitting your opponent charges it)

Sheik d-throw has more knockback growth (i'm like 99% sure anecdotally, will wait on dataminers before i confirm it though), basically she got the luigi treatment.

Apparently F-throw was nerfed as well D:

Edit: Also is looking mighty scary now that (??) been nerfed.

 

[Fatmanonice]

OMG, if they finally fixed it so shiek doesn't have a kill confirm, and actually 'has trouble killing', ill be super happy. Unless the bayo/cloud team gets stronger in the next few months, I predict more meta growth for characters not named Shiek.

also, if shiek can't get all her kills from d-throw anymore, I'll give it 5 minutes before a complaint comes out from Zero's twitter. <3

She might actually have a meaningful weakness now, which is really great for the meta. Anti developing a shiek and Nairo worrying about switching characters had me really worried, but all is well. Seriously guys, not to toot my own horn here but i've been saying it for a while, a meta where shiek can't just d-throw you till you die will be very nice.

And Zero switches to Cloud before EVO.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Pitty. I'd rather have it to where sheik loses needles, invincibility on vanish and bouncing fish, and a little lag on the startup of Fair than a lose on a kill confirm.

But whatevs,

 

[Shady Shaymin]

Any changes to bayonetta's frame .0001 air dodge? No? Well then goodnight everyone. Rest in peace to jband, abadango, and all who put work into metaknight. Brawl misses you dearly.

Here's to all the up smash reads sheik mains now have to land just to close stocks. Good luck!

 

[ARISTOS]

Sheik's new forward throw lol pic.twitter.com/4tsmgYVrfJ

— K9sbruce (@K9sbruce) March 16, 2016

 

[NairWizard]

If those nerfs are real (though I'll be the last to subscribe to unconfirmed possible placebo effects), Sheik wouldn't just be worse, she'd actually kind of suck. We'd be looking at Cloud as #1 and Bayo or Rosa as #2, unless the damage nerfs to ZSS somehow amp her combo ability, which seems unlikely

 

[Djent]

Sheik throw change is iffy.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Y2Kay]

Did Sheik......get nerfed?

Greninja's relevancy just took a massive spike.

Praise be, Sakurai

 

[Nobie]

GUYS.

MEWTWO'S WEIGHT GOT INCREASED.

 

[TurboLink]

Someone check Ike's bair. I think they nerfed it. It seems to have less knockback.

 

[Djent]

At Xanadu in WSF: > and > .

Literally any other week we'd all be going crazy over this. Instead, nothing. lol

 

[Megamang]

I think her Fair is 'iconic' now, or at least everyone is so used to it that changing it would really make the character feel different. But having no dthrow combos means innovation is necessary, or at the very least just going for the nair or ftilt kill confirm LOL. It was just Bs when you had to watch out for grabs, tilts and aerials... what do you even do then?

Also, https://twitter.com/TSMZeRo/status/709941721539481600

 

[Mario766]

Someone check Ike's bair. I think they nerfed it. It seems to have less knockback.

San confirmed no damage changes for Ike

So if there was a KB nerf

It'll be little at most.

 

[R3D3MON]

It really sucks that my second favorite got nerfed...ROFL at everybody who says MK will have a more "diverse and interesting" meta because of the nerf. It's the Luigi crisis all over again :/

Time to buy Bayo and Cloud I guess.

 

[NotLiquid]

If those nerfs are real (though I'll be the last to subscribe to unconfirmed possible placebo effects), Sheik wouldn't just be worse, she'd actually kind of suck. We'd be looking at Cloud as #1 and Bayo or Rosa as #2, unless the damage nerfs to ZSS somehow amp her combo ability, which seems unlikely

Zero's vids seem to confirm these changes but her followups still exist it seems (no DI accounted for though).

 

[BSP]

Trifroze does the damage change to nair mean it's no 0 (or whatever it was) on block anymore, or is there more to it?

 

[Shaya]

2% is enough to take 1 frame off it's shield stun.
So from -3 to -4.
Maybe -5 on average.

 

[Megamang]

R3D3MON we will see. Diddy did change to have a much more interesting meta. MK has more mobility, which usually means more options. This new uair could create better ledgeguarding opportunities. What if uair -> dair combos, or uair -> bair? Then you could edgeguard people for hitting a uair, that'd be cool.

Certainly cooler than having to hump the ledge the entire game, or lose your stocks for being the least bit aggressive.

Apparently Shiek's needles have less range and more endlag? Maybe im being trolled. That'd be too nice.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

needles has been nerfed. Less range then before by a bit. I hope you are all happy :[

 

[Pancracio17]

the needle nerf is real, and really significant https://twitter.com/TSMZeRo/status/709944202130530304

 

[R3D3MON]

Megamang
Sadly MK is not Diddy. I think it really isn't fair to compare the two characters because they play VERY differently with wildly different tools in their disposal. For example MK does not have a banana or Diddy's d-tilt, which all still setup into guranteed kills at proper %s. This comparison is similar to people who were comparing Luigi nerfs to Diddy nerfs. Please just don't. Diddy isn't Luigi.
EDIT: All the "new options" you listed already existed before the nerf. Check out famous MK guides or the MK board, they give you this information for free (or alternatively just watch any of the top MK players doing work).

 

[Y2Kay]

GUYS.

MEWTWO'S WEIGHT GOT INCREASED.

Edit: screw me I'm stupid

 

[CHIEf]

Yeah Sheik needles have like Falco laser cooldown and less range. Crazy.

 

[FullMoon]

So

 

[Baby_Sneak]

R3D3MON we will see. Diddy did change to have a much more interesting meta. MK has more mobility, which usually means more options. This new uair could create better ledgeguarding opportunities. What if uair -> dair combos, or uair -> bair? Then you could edgeguard people for hitting a uair, that'd be cool.

Certainly cooler than having to hump the ledge the entire game, or lose your stocks for being the least bit aggressive.

Apparently Shiek's needles have less range and more endlag? Maybe im being trolled. That'd be too nice.

Diddy 's also just plain more versatile and can be used in many different ways than MK. MK is now more of a turtler in my eyes

 

[Ulevo]

To those of you who do not properly understand the implications of this change to Meta Knight, which will be most of you, I'll spell it out.

The goal with this change was not to remove his death combo. He now has the potential to do it even more consistently. The goal was to give it an appropriate risk reward ratio. Now if Meta Knight wants to combo the opponent to death and he is close to the ledge, he needs to choose between suiciding or sealing the game with the remaining stock he has, or lose a stock or the game in the process.

Enjoy.

 

[TurboLink]

Needle Storm would've been fine if they just nerfed the Knockback Growth and startup a bit. Anybody agree?

 

[LordShade67]

So

Still a utility tool when they're at higher %s. It's just something bad Corrins can't hide behind anymore.

 

[juddy96]

If Rosa went untouched she just got massive indirect buffs.

 

[Trifroze]

ZSS' side b still doesn't really kill, but it now has an edge over zair with the tip doing 1.5% more damage and being safe against Sheik's dash attack. Maybe this move has an actual use now! I've been waiting for this buff since I started using this character.

Bnb combo is still real and janky with rage, but dthrow seems to have been changed in some way other than the damage reduction (I presume knockback was adjusted to match the old one, maybe even increased a bit).

I swear her usmash is stronger now though. dataminers pls confirm

 

[Shady Shaymin]

Beware the ides of march. Et tu, Sakurai?