Rosalina Custom Sets: Electric Boogaloo

[ParanoidDrone]

A refresher:

In the past I helped coordinate the Rosalina boards with Amazing Ampharos' custom moveset project so that we could discuss and come to a consensus on some of Rosalina's most important custom sets. The purpose of this was so that TOs who wish to use customs but didn't have everything unlocked on the Wii U could instead use a powersave on a 3DS, make the sets there, and transfer the sets to the Wii U instead.

For reference, here are the 6 sets we decided on:

2311 (Luma Warp, Shooting Star Bit, Launch Star, Gravitational Pull)
2313 (Luma Warp, Shooting Star Bit, Launch Star, Guardian Luma)
1311 (Luma Shot, Shooting Star Bit, Launch Star, Gravitational Pull)
1313 (Luma Shot, Shooting Star Bit, Launch Star, Guardian Luma)
2211 (Luma Warp, Floaty Star Bit, Launch Star, Gravitational Pull)
2213 (Luma Warp, Floaty Star Bit, Launch Star, Guardian Luma)

This left 4 more slots. 2 would be devoted to 2222 and 3333 for the sake of ensuring all moves were available for use by those who wanted to experiment, and 2 more were blank so that anyone who wished to use a different set than those provided had the room to do so.

Now to the meat of the topic.

Mr. Wizard is open to the idea of customs at EVO by means of this project. But given the size of EVO, time is of the essence, and it's possible that they may disallow the creation of sets "on the floor." That is to say, the only sets allowed for use would be the ones pre-loaded.

Therefore, in the event this comes to pass, I think we should start talking about what 4 sets should go in the last several slots. We could even discuss replacing one or more of the 6 sets above, if necessary.

I stress again that this is only a possibility, and not a concrete thing. EVO's rules won't be finalized until March 27. But I like being prepared and would love to see customs at EVO and thus want to help make it possible.

To summarize: This topic is about discussing the viability of the 6 custom sets listed above in a large scale tournament environment (EVO) and coming up with 4 additional sets to add to the list for a total of 10.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Hmm. Slow crowd. To get us started, I guess I can put forward a few thoughts.

Specials that are not used in any existing set: Power Luma Shot, Star Bits, Launch Star Plus, Launch Star Attack, Catch & Release.

Power Luma Shot: Is Luma invincible during this or not? Is the powerful lingering hitbox worth the loss of Luma itself for the duration?
Star Bits: Good for disruption, but what does it have over, say, Shooting Star Bit other than raw damage?
Launch Star Plus: It fires Rosalina faster but I think that's it. Can't even angle it.
Launch Star Attack: Booty for recovery purposes but it's her only up special with a hitbox. Worth a niche set or not?
Catch & Release: The fastest of her down special options, but really only competes with Guardian Luma for matchups where there's nothing worth using Gravitational Pull on.

1211 and 1213 (Luma Shot, Floaty Star Bit, Launch Star, Gravitational Pull/Guardian Luma) may be worth adding. If nothing else they round out the 6 sets above. It seems a bit uninspired though. All the same I have a hard time thinking of a cohesive set that involves one or more of the five specials I listed.

 

[Castell]

Wouldn't it be save time to have 6-8 sets rather than all 10? Not that I don't mind having more options, but time is limited for EVO and especially for Smash.

Well, to be honest, default star bits are pretty much out classed by Shooting Start bit. I don't see a good reason to use the default. What it loses in damage(only 3%), it makes up far more in speed, range, and spamming ability. Same with Launch Star Plus, being faster doesn't eliminate any of our default recovery flaws, and just means we're even more obvious with how we recover. Catch & Release, I don't see value in, Guardian Luma is instant compared to it and less punishable.

I'd be willing to give Power Luma Shot and Launch Star Attack a slot. I can see maybe if we're up against a heavy rush down character, a lingering hitbox would be preferable to default and warp. I haven't tested if the hitbox on Launch Star Attack is big enough to matter, in terms of making our recovery safer. We'll still pretty much always recover, it still goes far, but we can't combo into it, it only does 12%, and it's pretty unwieldy.

I put in 3313 and 2333 for Power Shot and Launch Attack.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Wouldn't it be save time to have 6-8 sets rather than all 10? Not that I don't mind having more options, but time is limited for EVO and especially for Smash.

Well, to be honest, default star bits are pretty much out classed by Shooting Start bit. I don't see a good reason to use the default. What it loses in damage(only 3%), it makes up far more in speed, range, and spamming ability. Same with Launch Star Plus, being faster doesn't eliminate any of our default recovery flaws, and just means we're even more obvious with how we recover. Catch & Release, I don't see value in, Guardian Luma is instant compared to it and less punishable.

I'd be willing to give Power Luma Shot and Launch Star Attack a slot. I can see maybe if we're up against a heavy rush down character, a lingering hitbox would be preferable to default and warp. I haven't tested if the hitbox on Launch Star Attack is big enough to matter, in terms of making our recovery safer. We'll still pretty much always recover, it still goes far, but we can't combo into it, it only does 12%, and it's pretty unwieldy.

I put in 3313 and 2333 for Power Shot and Launch Attack.

There's a very real possibility that EVO will simply disallow any custom sets that aren't already loaded onto the setups in the name of saving time. In such an event, it's better if we have a large variety of sets (up to 10 since that's what the game can store) that we can agree on are most worth having. EVO's rules won't be finalized until March 27, so we have some time to hash it all out.

If they do allow players to make their own sets during a match, then we can drop it down to 8 or just stick with the 6 we decided on earlier. That's whatever. Some kind of sorting would be needed then to make sure we know which ones are most expendable.

The only advantage I can think of for Star Bits over Shooting is maybe their startup is faster. Not sure. Otherwise it seems to me like they'd do the disruption thing just as well as each other except Shooting has more range.

I lack enough experience with Power Luma Shot and Launch Star Attack to really say anything on them yet. I can mess around with them later I guess.

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

The only thing I can add to this is that Catch and Release can gimp people very easy on Lylat.
Otherwise....meh

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The only thing I can add to this is that Catch and Release can gimp people very easy on Lylat.
Otherwise....meh

It's also usable when Luma's dead, which is a detail I forgot about.

Power Luma Shot is fun against the AI at the very least and you can set up some rude ledge traps with it. Not sure how it would work on a person though.

 

[icraq]

2311 seems like the obvious choice for me but the trouble is getting actual practice with customs. luma warp is one of those things that you'd really need to use to keep up with how good other characters are with customs on. it has a lot of potential but it's not obvious when to use it. shooting starbit is easy to use and obviously better than default sideB.

kind of a side note but since im planning on going to evo i kinda hope customs are off, strictly because my region doesn't use customs. i just don't have access to playing other people with customs because we'd rather use the moves we'll be using in tournament here if we're practicing at all. regions that play with customs on are definitely going to have an advantage at a national with customs on. everyone else is just screwed. at least shooting starbit is easy to use.

edit: i should note i'd prefer playing with customs on but the community just isn't behind it here. just the way things are.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

2311 seems like the obvious choice for me but the trouble is getting actual practice with customs. luma warp is one of those things that you'd really need to use to keep up with how good other characters are with customs on. it has a lot of potential but it's not obvious when to use it. shooting starbit is easy to use and obviously better than default sideB.

kind of a side note but since im planning on going to evo i kinda hope customs are off, strictly because my region doesn't use customs. i just don't have access to playing other people with customs because we'd rather use the moves we'll be using in tournament here if we're practicing at all. regions that play with customs on are definitely going to have an advantage at a national with customs on. everyone else is just screwed. at least shooting starbit is easy to use.

If EVO decides that yes they'll be using customs then I'd hope your region takes that into account and starts using them too if only to practice.

2311 is probably Rosalina's best set but we already knew that. We're looking to fill out the list with other stuff.

 

[icraq]

If EVO decides that yes they'll be using customs then I'd hope your region takes that into account and starts using them too if only to practice.

2311 is probably Rosalina's best set but we already knew that. We're looking to fill out the list with other stuff.

yeah hopefully evo will announce hte ruleset soon and we can go from there.

well my only other contribution is launch star attack or whatever it's called seems to have some potential, is there any particular reason it's not on here? i get the sense it'd be good for comboing and possibly killing off the top, but im not sure.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

yeah hopefully evo will announce hte ruleset soon and we can go from there.

well my only other contribution is launch star attack or whatever it's called seems to have some potential, is there any particular reason it's not on here? i get the sense it'd be good for comboing and possibly killing off the top, but im not sure.

I messed around with it vs. the AI (I lack actual people to play with) and it was...eh. Being her only up special with a hitbox basically ensures it has a niche, although whether it's worth anything remains to be seen. I'm leaning towards "no" since Rosalina already has uair for juggles and usmash/grab for OOS. That said I'm not above being proven wrong, I just haven't seen anyone put it to good use.

Launch Star Plus is in a similar boat where the extra launch speed is nice on paper (seriously, Rosalina basically teleports it's that fast) but I don't think it gets any extra height and you can't angle it so...yeah.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

2311 is probably one of the best custom special setups for Rosalina. Luma Warp allows you to place the Luma at a location that you want quicker, and its down aerial does pack a punch while edge-guarding. Shooting Star Bit executes quickly, and can travel quite far, making it good for delivering pressure on anyone who lacks a reflecting/absorbing move.

In terms of the Launch Star variations, while Launch Star Plus does send Rosalina moving a lot faster, you can't change its angle, leaving you quite vulnerable to attacks from below.

As for Launch Star Attack, while it's nice that it can deal damage to opponents, the shorter travel distance does hurt its recovery usage. Also, the fact that Rosalina halts her momentum after the move ends makes it even less effective for recovery.

Catch & Release is likely Rosalina's worst custom special, since even though it can damage opponents, it takes quite a while for the attack to actually affect them. And the damage and knockback that it delivers is very underwhelming; you're basically giving up the ability to repel items and projectiles for a move that's practically worthless.

Guardian Luma may seem useful with the Luma blocking most attacks and attacking anyone who gets too close, but it doesn't protect Rosalina from behind, and it's quite worthless if the Luma isn't present. Sure, the move can attract items, but not as well as the standard Gravitational Pull.

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

Guardian Luma may seem useful with the Luma blocking most attacks and attacking anyone who gets too close, but it doesn't protect Rosalina from behind, and it's quite worthless if the Luma isn't present. Sure, the move can attract items, but not as well as the standard Gravitational Pull.

I disagree on this.

In some matchups, with characters that have no energy based projectiles like Peach, or no projectile at all, I think having Guardian Luma is a must.
Grav will be over shadowed in those situations because its effect isn't as helpful as Guardian Luma

Guardian Luma is excellent for helping you get back to the stage in some situations. When Luma is rushing back to you, you can use Guardian Luma to interrupt somebody's attempt to edgeguard you.

It lasts 27 frames
27 frames

I think its a pretty viable option

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Again, the main problem is if the Luma is gone, since without it, Guardian Luma is rendered useless outside of attracting nearby items.

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

Again, the main problem is if the Luma is gone, since without it, Guardian Luma is rendered useless outside of attracting nearby items.

That's the thing, if there is no projectiles in the match-up, why would you not have guardian luma?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That's the thing, if there is no projectiles in the match-up, why would you not have guardian luma?

Probably because you don't always know what to expect when facing friends online. It's a trial and error type of situation.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Probably because you don't always know what to expect when facing friends online. It's a trial and error type of situation.

I think for the purposes of this discussion we can assume offline tournament context. I agree default is the superior generalist option.

 

[Dabuz]

I like the up-b that sends Rosa flying fast. Both custom starbits have great uses. In particular I think the drill luma shot and the slow moving starbit are a great combo against more rushdown based characters. Finally gravity pull is the only down-b worth using.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I like the up-b that sends Rosa flying fast. Both custom starbits have great uses. In particular I think the drill luma shot and the slow moving starbit are a great combo against more rushdown based characters. Finally gravity pull is the only down-b worth using.

I assume you mean GPull is the only one worth using against projectile characters because it's literally worthless against, say, Meta Knight.

 

[Dabuz]

Yeah, but tbh even Guardian Luma is situational at best.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

No argument there. Thoughts on Guardian Luma vs. Catch & Release? C&R seems even more meh but it does have the benefit of being usable without Luma, for all that matters.

 

[Lavani]

Power Luma Shot: Is Luma invincible during this or not? Is the powerful lingering hitbox worth the loss of Luma itself for the duration?

Like the default, Power Luma Shot makes Luma invincible on a full charge. While you don't have Luma augmenting your attacks during it and aren't able to store the charge, it's comparable to Dense Charge Shot or Snaring Aura Sphere in its ability to control space and set up a wall against rushdown by putting out a powerful, lingering projectile hitbox.

If there's merit to either upB custom, I'd be more inclined to believe it's in Launch Star Plus. I prefer the versatility of default, but the added speed is quite nice. I wanted to like Launch Star Attack, but I don't think the recovery loss is worth it. I might be missing something, though.

Not going to toss out any set suggestions since my limited custom time with Rosalina has been 2313/2311, but I'd imagine 3xxx sets would be the likely additions out of the currently unused customs.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So to bring this conversation here, dabuz suggested in the other topic that he would use 2221, 2223, 2321, and 2323 which would fill out the rest of our space, and I'm extremely inclined to take his suggestions on this very seriously for obvious reasons. We are filling all 10. Obviously 2311 and 2313 are staying, and I feel as though 2211 and 2213 are pretty non-negotiable too. This leaves the question of whether we want to preserve the 1311 and 1313 sets completely or drop in some Power Luma Shot sets. Alternatively we could cover Guardian Luma in full a bit less and use a set combo like...

2311
2313
2321
2323
2211
2221
1311
3311
3211
XXX3 (fill one of the previous possibilities with Guardian Luma, 2213 probably)

What are people's preferences here? As long as 2311 and 2313 are in my preferences as a player are covered so the rest is about making everyone else happy and guaranteeing as many Rosalina players as possible can use their preferred buillds at EVO.

Related, does anyone have anything to say in defense of side-1, up-3, or down-2? Can we just treat them as non-entities in this conversation going forward? My testing with all of them suggests they're pretty bad, but maybe someone has something to say that changes that game.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Here's all I've got on those three specials.

Side 1: It's physical disjoint instead of a projectile so it can't be reflected or absorbed. I think it also has the highest raw damage of all the side specials. The range is kind of atrocious though especially compared to Shooting Star Bit.

Up 3: Only up special with a hitbox but it's booty in literally every other aspect. And its not even that good as an attack. Compared to some other characters I guess it's still a passable recovery but compared to Launch Star? Hilarity.

Down 2: Works without Luma for all that's worth. Also completes the fastest out of all down specials I think. Only ever worth considering against people without projectiles but still has competition from Guardian Luma.

I wouldn't shed any tears if none of her sets had any of those three represented anywhere, but those are their perks on paper at the very least.

(I suppose a YOLO 1132 set is absolutely out of the question for obvious reasons.)

EDIT: After reading Dabuz's post I find myself mostly okay with it. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about completely missing a default Luma Shot set, but her default 1111 set is passable anyway so I'm not sure how much it actually matters. I do agree a set or two with Power Luma Shot is probably a good idea.

 

[Flamecircle]

I'm curious why nobody likes upb3. Rosalina is too light to need a up-b as long as hers, though the flexibility is of course welcome. However, I'm not sure if that flexibility really 100% invalidates having a hitbox while recovering. I assume it's helpful? I've had trouble getting my recovery stuffed, but I'm not a rosalina expert- maybe it's not a problem for the majority of you?

Also, eyeballing the move it SEEMS to be a good OoS. Checking the data... does this mean the first hitbox comes out frame 1? I seriously doubt it, but if so that's quite something.

1. Launch Star Attack (ascent)
2. Frame 1- 2: 3% 100f/120w 75° Magic
3. Frame 5-12: [1%]x3 100f/75w 80° 0.8-Hitlag Magic Ground-Target-Only
4. Frame 5-12: [1%]x3 100f/30w 366° 0.8-Hitlag Magic Aerial-Target-Only
5. Frame 14-15: 1% 100f/100w 60° Magic
6. Max Damage: 7%
   
   

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'm curious why nobody likes upb3. Rosalina is too light to need a up-b as long as hers, though the flexibility is of course welcome. However, I'm not sure if that flexibility really 100% invalidates having a hitbox while recovering. I assume it's helpful? I've had trouble getting my recovery stuffed, but I'm not a rosalina expert- maybe it's not a problem for the majority of you?

Also, eyeballing the move it SEEMS to be a good OoS. Checking the data... does this mean the first hitbox comes out frame 1? I seriously doubt it, but if so that's quite something.

1. Launch Star Attack (ascent)
2. Frame 1- 2: 3% 100f/120w 75° Magic
3. Frame 5-12: [1%]x3 100f/75w 80° 0.8-Hitlag Magic Ground-Target-Only
4. Frame 5-12: [1%]x3 100f/30w 366° 0.8-Hitlag Magic Aerial-Target-Only
5. Frame 14-15: 1% 100f/100w 60° Magic
6. Max Damage: 7%
   

Just tested it in training mode, Launch Star Attack definitely has startup before the hitbox comes out. What the data may refer to is her launch animation (with the actual launch star and SFX and so forth). I lack the tools for precise frame counting, but I can see the startup being F1 with respect to that specific animation. But she still crouches a bit before anything happens.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

If frame data will help you guys, I've gathered it all before:

Luma Shot and Power Luma Shot both hit on f10 with no charge. I don't know how fast Luma Warp hits, nearly impossible to test.

Default Star Bits hits on f13, Shooting Star Bit hits on f12, and Floaty Star Bit hits on f21.

Launch Star Attack hits on f10.

Catch & Release hits on f25 (horrible move but does have windboxes before then). Guardian Luma hits on f6.

All frame timings are relative to player input; if you look at Luma's action states for the moves that make hitboxes from Luma, you'll see numbers 1f faster, but Luma has a 1f delay on all moves to start up.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Her customs give her a lot of options. The big star is really good I think. It makes ut a lot harder to approach rosalina. It also gives her more offensive pressure and imoroves her ledge trap game. I think this is the one to go with. I think luna warp is the way to go with her also. It allows for some interesting combos and it really takes opponents off guard.

Her up B.......personally for me I'd change. I'm tired of launch star. I still haven't gotten the hang of that move and it's starting to mess with my game.

 

[Niner]

Launch star is both a blessing and a curse. Depending on the stage it's easy to kill yourself either by getting stuck or aiming the wrong way. It's also easy to edge-guard against. On the other hand it covers a lot of distance (not the best but good enough) and various trajectory angles. LS+ is losing some horizontal trajectory but makes it harder to time guarding against. I can see it being useful on stages with closer horizontal blastlines, like Duck Hunt. LS Attack sacrifices the already finnicky distance for hitboxes, deterring those who might try to follow her off-stage. And it has baaaad distance. Ignore it completely imo.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Based on comments in this thread and elsewhere, it seems to me that having a set or two with Launch Star Plus is definitely a good idea.

A question that I think was sort of lightly touched on earlier but not in much detail: What do people think of our existing 6 sets? Are they still satisfactory or should some be changed/removed?

2311 (Luma Warp, Shooting Star Bit, Launch Star, Gravitational Pull)
2313 (Luma Warp, Shooting Star Bit, Launch Star, Guardian Luma)
1311 (Luma Shot, Shooting Star Bit, Launch Star, Gravitational Pull)
1313 (Luma Shot, Shooting Star Bit, Launch Star, Guardian Luma)
2211 (Luma Warp, Floaty Star Bit, Launch Star, Gravitational Pull)
2213 (Luma Warp, Floaty Star Bit, Launch Star, Guardian Luma)

2311/2313 are probably safe but what about the rest?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I think they're underwhelming and I feel as though her best custom sets are these.

3321 3221 2221 2321 1321 1221

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Does anyone have any good match videos of Up-2 working out well in practice? It sure seemed awful when I was toying with it since in a lot of situations it really slows down Rosalina's recovery (the time to move to the position from which you hit the ledge can easily exceed the start-up time of Launch Star); dabuz in the other topic was optimistic about the move which definitely gives me pause, but as a player I'd be a lot more comfortable with the idea of that move if I saw it in practice.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I had seen videos of a Rosalina using it the other day but I can't for the life of me remember where. If I find them again I'll post a link.

That said, even in the absence of video I think there's enough wiggle room to squeeze in a Launch Star Plus set anyway. Ditto for Power Luma Shot. (And speaking of PLS I think Floaty Star Bit would be rather redundant with it, so 33XX seems ideal for anything involving that particular custom.)

 

[Dabuz]

After playing around a bit more with customs, I think Luma warp is by far the best and only neutral B worth using.

Floaty star bit is pretty much not worth using and I'd rather using Luma laser or the default side-B in very specific MUs (Luigi being one of them).

Still unsure on which up-B I like the most, but certainly not the one with a hitbox.

Down-B default is pretty obvious, I do need to use guardian luma a bit more but I don't feel like it gives me a relevant option even against characters without projectiles.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Down-B default is pretty obvious, I do need to use guardian luma a bit more but I don't feel like it gives me a relevant option even against characters without projectiles.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that last bit. Considering that Gravitational Pull is literally worthless against characters without a projectile, it seems like a given that Guardian Luma or Catch & Release are superior options in those matchups. Any use, no matter how minor, is better than nothing.

Also we have 10 slots to fill, so even if the total number of "sets worth using" is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-4, that still leaves us with room to consider more unorthodox sets.

 

[DisidisiD]

First of all, while I am definitely a fan of Guardian Luma over Catch and release, I was doing some testing and noticed that catch and release seems to cover most, if not all, get up options from the ledge at certain positions. I may be wrong but you guys should try it out to see if it actually works. I used the X-looking thing on the left side of final destination as my reference point. I don't know if this boosts its viability or if it is already known. Just a little tidbit I found while testing the move out.

I also noticed that, while Catch and Release is Rosalina's fastest down special, Luma takes a little while longer to complete the animation and is unable to act for sometime while Rosa can. I am not sure if this difference in endlag could be capitalized on for combos, desyncs, etc or not but it is something else that I've noticed.

Thirdly, I've noticed that power Luma shot, in my experience, stops sonic's spin dash and, when fully charged, kills incredibly soon, so perhaps one set with 3113, 3213, 3313, 3112, 3212, or 3312 would be good niche set.

 

[John12346]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
2311 2321 2111 2121 2211 2221 1311 2313 2323 3313

Your discussion went by pretty smoothly. I was able to draw out these sets based on what you're talking about. The only thing I believe you need to consider now is whether or not the niche sets I listed out for you are in line, especially the one involving Power Luma Shot. Just give them a good once over to make sure these are good to go.

Spoiler: Notes taken during preliminary creation of sets

Rosalina:
2, 1/2/3, 1/2, 1 and niche 1XXX, 3XXX, and XXX3 sets
2311 2321 2111 2121 2211 2221
Niche: 1311 2313 2323 3313

 

[ParanoidDrone]

@ John12346 Some notes:

2311 and 2313 are both present. This is good since 231(1/3) is probably Rosalina's best set, with down special being either Gravitational Pull or Guardian Luma for projectiles/projectileless matchups respectively. As long as these two sets are present I think any list of sets for Rosalina is workable.

232(1/3) likewise, Launch Star Plus is a viable option and I know Dabuz likes it.

2111 and 2121 make me raise an eyebrow since I thought default Star Bits were sort of the black sheep among the side specials. I personally would not be sad to see either of them go but I'll concede to public opinion on this if enough people want them.

Similarly for 1311 with default Luma Shot. It's not bad per se but Luma Warp is superior in the majority of situations I can think of. (Basically anything where you're not trying to set up a landing trap.)

I'd prefer 3311 over 3313 for that niche set since Down 3 is Guardian Luma. Gravitational Pull, while useless against anyone without a projectile, is still the best overall down special for general use. Although if a set ends up getting dropped then there's room for both. But Power Luma Shot isn't exactly popular anyway so eh, whatever.

I know @ Amazing Ampharos is a Rosalina main so he can probably use some of his own judgement on this when he finalizes everything. I'll also summon @ Dabuz and @ Lavani to solicit their opinions on your list. (Yes, again. Sorry.)

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

As a player, the list doesn't really represent how I would put it together for myself, but it's not just about what I would want as a player and it does contain everything really important. dabuz's post implies that default Star Bits is useful vs Luigi; I'm not sure how that works out or how it could be better than Floaty Star Bit in any circumstance, but I mostly limit myself when playing Rosalina to 2211, 2311, 2213, and 2313 so I'm not well versed in what side-1 does at all other than lose badly to shields. It would be great to hear more about that. While default Luma Shot is something we mostly agree isn't worth it, it's probably worth including since it's so fundamental to Rosalina's playstyle and I know many Rosalina mains out there in the world have spent more time with it than the move honestly deserves. I do agree that 3313 should be replaced by 3311; that was probably a minor oversight in putting together preliminary sets.

To respond about Catch & Release, the move hits on frame 25 which is considerably slower to start-up than forward smash. It isn't even very rewarding when you do hit. Guardian Luma is uninspiring but seems to me to completely outclass Catch & Release.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Fair points all around. I'm mostly trying to play devil's advocate so that we don't accidentally gloss over something.

Like you said, the list does contain all the important sets already.

 

[Dabuz]

The more I use floaty star bit, the more I think it's garbage. I also am still 50-50 between normal up-b and launch star plus. Default side-B is used in a very few MUs (Oli and Luigi spring to mind). Luma warp is so much better than luma shot but I think luma shot is still good.

Ugh she has too many potential competitive sets :X

I think she absolutely needs 2311
2313
2321
2323

I personally might use
2111
or 2121
but I will be bringing my 3ds to apply my own customs sets to wiius regardless so w/e

I can't think of a set I would run luma shot with but if need be for someone else

1311

IMO anything with
3xxx
x2xx
xx2x
xxx2

aren't gonna be used unless someone specifically says they plan to use those customs.

So we can probs fill up the eighth and ninth spots with something like
1113
xxx3 and leave the last 1 open for players to bring their own custom set if they have a specific one.

Edit: I guess for the 10th slot, 2211 in case someone likes floaty star bit.