1.10 Balance change speculation?

[❤ Nikodemus05]

Please god give her a jab that can true combo into itself, and is safe at 0%. Also, less lag on missles would be fantastic.

 

[Afro Smash]

• F tilt now has 6 hitboxes, 5 of which are unsafe on hit at all percents
• All bonus shield damage from specials removed
• uair and zair landing lag doubled
• all grabs now have pivot grab end lag
• Pummel damage increased to 1.3%

 

[Hark17ball]

Metroid Prime has also stolen her Armor/Upgrades.
-takes more damage from attacks
-Only 5 homing missiles usable
-Morphball/Charge Shot unavailable
-Less weight
+Slightly more Agile

 

[Boney]

Well update is live, and replays stopped working, anybody able to check her out?

 

[Jackal Eire]

Yes, unfortunately... Bombs still don't detonate on impact, grab seems unchanged and missiles seem the same. And usmash is the same. 5 min of training mode knowledge. God just even pick one thing Sakurai and FIX IT...

 

[Boney]

Yep, just tried it myself. Nothing seems changed.

 

[Emerlad_Element]

Are you guys sure about the grab? It feels faster to me. Placebo?

 

[Vyrnx]

Grab definitely feels faster. No changes to other moves that I've seen so far...

 

[Boney]

The only one I'm not 100% sure are bombs detonating faster.

Wait, now that I think about, homing missiles might be faster, but their homing is the same (top level of battlefield)

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

Sakurai's play testers need to be fired.

I'm legit serious. They can't even be using the logic that she is "good in FFA" (which is questionable) because they just buffed Robin who is arguable better at everything Samus can do which inncludes ffa and For Fun environments. I'm at a complete loss.

 

[Fluidityt]

Sakurai's play testers need to be fired.

I'm legit serious. They can't even be using the logic that she is "good in FFA" (which is questionable) because they just buffed Robin who is arguable better at everything Samus can do which inncludes ffa and For Fun environments. I'm at a complete loss.

if you expect the worse (nerfs) then you will never be disappointed, and can only be happy.

I went in expecting a CS nerf or something, and now that nothing is changed, I'm happy.

 

[Afro Smash]

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/

Samus no changes confirmed, Sakurai hates Samus confirmed

 

[Boney]

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/

Samus no changes confirmed, Sakurai hates Samus confirmed

Yep, was gonna post this, all placebo.

Sigh...

 

[zeldasmash]

She.....didn't get anything......WTF?

 

[Boney]

Actually dantarion hasn't checked for projectiles so the bomb and missile buff could be real still, so anybody wanna chime in on that?

For what's worth, I think the missiles are the same

Source https://twitter.com/dantarion/status/626952101130731520

 

[zblaqk]

What about IASA frames?

 

[Vyrnx]

if you expect the worse (nerfs) then you will never be disappointed, and can only be happy.

I went in expecting a CS nerf or something, and now that nothing is changed, I'm happy.

Personally if it meant getting buffs to some of her other moves I would gladly sacrifice some damage and knockback on CS. Right now I feel like Samus is the victim of bad character design in that she revolves around one attack. Sakurai gives Samus some pretty bad moves counting on CS swinging matches, but this is very one dimensional. If she received some of the buffs we'd all been asking for and CS got a nerf, she would be a much more interesting character in a competitive environment. But I feel like Sakurai would rather leave CS as it is and allow Samus to suffer competitively.

 

[zblaqk]

Personally if it meant getting buffs to some of her other moves I would gladly sacrifice some damage and knockback on CS. Right now I feel like Samus is the victim of bad character design in that she revolves around one attack. Sakurai gives Samus some pretty bad moves counting on CS swinging matches, but this is very one dimensional. If she received some of the buffs we'd all been asking for and CS got a nerf, she would be a much more interesting character in a competitive environment. But I feel like Sakurai would rather leave CS as it is and allow Samus to suffer competitively.

AKA Charge Shot the character?

 

[Vyrnx]

I know it's cliche to talk about Sakurai's anti competitive nature, but I think he sees Samus as the character that elementary schoolers play as at lunch so they can all laugh when they kill each other with charge shot. I mean... That's fine. But giving Samus a real jab, for instance, won't affect them. It just helps us out.

On the bright side, no nerfs means that all of the work we've put into this character will give the same results it always has, and we don't need to scrap any of our meta.

On the dimmer side of things, it seems like everyone else is getting buffs and that high tiers didn't get (significantly) nerfed, so our position amongst the tiers is looking worse than it was.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm very tempted to load up the latest version but I haven't done any video capture of my latest round of replays... so it will have to wait until later this weekend to be fully disappointed.
How is the tournament mode? Someone please say that is ok.

 

[zeldasmash]

It is a fun mode. However, it is only available online.....

 

[Squaddle]

I'm very tempted to load up the latest version but I haven't done any video capture of my latest round of replays... so it will have to wait until later this weekend to be fully disappointed.
How is the tournament mode? Someone please say that is ok.

It is ok. Right now you can host tournaments with all sorts of rules, but you can't change the battle type (its always 4 player free for all). Nintendo also hosts tourneys that are single elimination, they have 'for glory' bouts that are 1v1 3 minutes 2 stock with no sudden death (winner is the more 'active' player which is kind of bull****) but they fill up really quickly.

 

[Neonicus]

Does sams fall faster now? She seems less floaty. Could someone confirm if this is true?

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Sakurai hates Samus with a fiery passion. Don't know why I expected anything....

Does sams fall faster now? She seems less floaty. Could someone confirm if this is true?

I seriously doubt it. They have yet to change basic character properties like that.

 

[drogoth232]

I have a good background in brawl modding so I can read the code to some degree, here's the changes that are on Dantarion's mastercore. Just giving general stuff, nothing specific until I get more time.

Samus is one of the characters that received no changes at all, unfortunately. Hopefully her articles got buffs or something. She really needs help when it comes to attacks linking together...

You guys can choose to believe me or not, but I implore you guys to check out my background in brawl coding both on Smashboards and KCMM.

 

[JAZZ_]

Darn placebo... Is there a way to get our voices heard? Like fake smsh ballots that list changes needed to samus.. Anything? Fsmash seems to have a bigger explosion animation but idk if that's true I literally spent a minute throwing out as many moves as possible

 

[Marm']

Better buff TL's grab twice in a row.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Funny thing about patches. So much placebo going on your mind forces it until you discover something.

Like I didn't know Up Angled Fsmash was most powerful out of the other angles. Gg patch and brain.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

Why?! Sakurai why do you hate Samus!?!?!
Someone needs to be fired!

 

[Shog]

This is really stupid...

 

[❤ Nikodemus05]

Our day will come eventually guys. Keep a positive outlook, this is better than no nerfs.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Our day will come eventually guys. Keep a positive outlook, this is better than no nerfs.

I'm not so confident. The more changes I look at, like buffing toon link's tether grab with 2 frames better startup, big hitbox and knockback changes on other characters, improved linking on yoshi's b-air (wtf...) the less I feel there will be any additional changes to Samus.
No matter what the players say, no matter what I'm confident his statistics collection says, no matter what.
He really truly believes the character is balanced and the only way I can hit back is make a video shaming his rather extreme bias and poor design decisions. He really is bias, that's what I feel now. Pre-patches I was still within the realm of doubt, but the pattern of patch changes particularly to elements like grabs, multi-hits linking removing tech ground spikes, it is a bit rich.
I'm going to reduce my playtime a bit and work towards my "shame Sakurai" video montage for the next little bit.
Anyone good and willing to help with Japanese translation? I have a distant friend I could call on but a japanese smasher would know the appropriate japanese smash lingo better.

 

[Hark17ball]

I'm staying positive. They probably chose who to work on before anything happened at EVO. Now that they worked on everyone BUT her and she wasn't used at EVO at all.....next patch could be focused on her.

 

[leiraD]

I'm literally heartbroken... I just cast a vote in the new character vote for Nintendo to forgo adding a new character and simply improve Samus to her metroid glory. I don't genuinely believe that my request will be heeded, or even read, but I just needed some kind of outlet to vent my frustration...

 

[Emerlad_Element]

I was on Skype with a friend last night and went into a rant/hissy fit over the whole thing. I still can't comprehend as to why Samus received no changes when almost every other character did. Characters better and worse then Samus received buffs this patch and last. Only thing we can do is hope for the future and keep evolving the Samus meta game.

 

[❤ Nikodemus05]

I'm not so confident. The more changes I look at, like buffing toon link's tether grab with 2 frames better startup, big hitbox and knockback changes on other characters, improved linking on yoshi's b-air (wtf...) the less I feel there will be any additional changes to Samus.
No matter what the players say, no matter what I'm confident his statistics collection says, no matter what.
He really truly believes the character is balanced and the only way I can hit back is make a video shaming his rather extreme bias and poor design decisions. He really is bias, that's what I feel now. Pre-patches I was still within the realm of doubt, but the pattern of patch changes particularly to elements like grabs, multi-hits linking removing tech ground spikes, it is a bit rich.
I'm going to reduce my playtime a bit and work towards my "shame Sakurai" video montage for the next little bit.
Anyone good and willing to help with Japanese translation? I have a distant friend I could call on but a japanese smasher would know the appropriate japanese smash lingo better.

Times like these really make me wish Sakurwhy stayed with the Kirby series. Someone so situationally close minded and anti competitive should have NO business WHATSOEVER developing a fighting game.

 

[Skellyton]

Oh my god I just saw the patch notes and I think I wanna cry. All I wanted was some Samus buffs, but I guess Sakurai is really that closed minded to think that she is balanced in FFAs. Whenever I play Samus I cant help but think "Why do I play this character?" I've played Samus since melee and she has always fit my playstyle, but she feels so bad in this game, and it seems like that's not gonna change

 

[Afro Smash]

Real talk with the release of the Samus mii Gunner outfit and no buffs Sakurai really is just trying to say 'there is absolutely no reason to play Samus'

 

[Vyrnx]

Oh my god. I just decided to read some of the patch notes that came in over night and saw all of the goddang self righteous Luigi mains congratulating themselves on the buffs "they always deserved"... And Yoshj mains talking about how they were "misunderstood" and "Sakurai understood that they were really mid tier"... Fox got buffed? EVERYONE got buffed?

I'm not getting out of bed today. Or tomorrow.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I guess Sakurai is really that closed minded to think that she is balanced in FFAs.

Can we get rid of this idea? I'm not targeting you specifically Skellyton, but the idea, specifically.
These buff/nerfs of other characters do not have a major impact on FFA games. No one is going to notice Luigi's forward air going from 9 -> 8% or fireballs going from 40 -> 43 frames in an FFA setting. It's just not relevant. These are ALL targeted 1v1 changes.
Sakurai deliberately increased Ness' down-air hitbox - and reduced his absorber endlag to nill.
Sakurai deliberately removed teching from Falco's d-air to allow guaranteed follow ups, and created ryu as a combo character with no teching of any of his starters at all.
Sakurai deliberately increased Link's tether grab range, reduced its end-lag and even this time around improved T.Link's tether grab.
Sakurai deliberately made Yoshi's b-air multi-hit connect better when it already connected way better than any of Samus' multihits.
Sakurai deliberately improved throw combos for a host of characters making it much easier for them to link and acquire damage, and left Samus' grab follow ups as hard to execute.
Sakurai deliberately increased Diddy Kong's, Gannon's, Mewtwo (the list goes on..) d-smash growth and knockback/damage.
Sakurai deliberately reduced Greeninja's water shuriken startup and end frames, they are now at 45 frames, he can shoot 4 in the space we shoot 3 of Samus' missiles.
Sakurai deliberately made Metaknight's hitboxes match his animations.

Let's be totally clear: Every single change Samus mains and casual players alike have identified as possible improvements to the character to level the playing field have been given in some form to other characters. There is no a-priori reason or rationale to specifically ignore this character for any of the changes he has chosen to make to other characters. This is BIAS.